Al and Robins 20x30 1 1/2 near Lake Eufaula, OK

[ajbremer]

Thank you everyone, very good points. I will not use RV windows.

I received my truss quote today for my countryplan 20x30 1 1/2 Open Beam Ceiling. It says I'll need 24 trusses and they weigh 187 lbs each and they are on 16" centers. The total cost of them is $2,700. That's more than I thought but the people that I talk to say that it is a good deal. I still need rafter ties every 4' right? Another question, what are all those numbers next to the individual pieces of the truss, is that feet and inches?

Here are some snapshots of the quote, I'm sorry their so small. I also covered up data of the truss guy just in case of copyright issues I'm not aware of.

[MountainDon]

I guess the next thing is to pay the man and build the walls to put them on.   

Ask the engineer about the necessity of rafter ties. Real engineered trusses should stand on their own because the engineer has calculated the forces. Those seem unusual the way they are configured, not at all like a scissors truss, but if an engineer did it and will provide papers that certify their purpose, that's great. Note the use of Nbr.1 lumber for some components. That's onr reason they might seem costly.

But that should be a good roof.

What kind of insulation method?

[Crappie Slayer]

If that is the truss company that has been in checotah for years and years... you wont beat his price by much,,, I am from that area and have never heard anything bad about the place.

I put my roof on my 16x16 and my gambrel style rafters done by myslef cost me around 1000.... so it just depends on whether you can build them yourself... your only going to be saving your time and a little money .... but it is totally up to you... but I know the place where you got that quote and I am sure you will get good trusses from them.

Shoot me an email on my private email and I will shoot you some pics of my rafters that I did all byself all by my lonesome... took them up a spiral staircase half a rafter at a time....

Okielawman28@yahoo.com

Chris
aka... Crappie Slayer

[CjAl]

Don that is the site built truss design that comes with johns story and a half plans. Except it appears they upsized them to double 2x8's instead of 2x6's. Also johns plans call for 2' on center i believe. Wow doubled 2x8s will be heavy. Im really surprised theyre calling for 16" centers

[MountainDon]

187# each.

Not quite the same. There is the added vertical "stick" from peak down to the "horizontal tie bar" which is probably very important is the load paths.    . As well as the upsized #1 lumber the sheet shows the connection plate type and it lists the calcs as being done for 90 mph winds.

I am confused about the Top and bottom chord bracing though

I hope Don_P reads this as I'm sure he can explain a thing or two...

Looking at the FORCES section  (I think I understand this)
TOP CHORD from point 3 to 4 or point 4 to 5  could handle a max compression load of 486 lbs, but no tension load expected.

The vertical web, point 4 to 8 (roof peak to horizontal). no compression load and a max tension load of 501 lbs.

interesting the way things work.

[astidham]

my trusses are on 2' centers with no need of collar ties
mine look totally different than that one does, then again my interior side is a 9/12 pitch outside is a 12/12
you might want to get a second quote, you might try prior..

[Don_P]

There are some things to notice in the truss report. You've noticed the spacing. Look at the loadings, as light as it gets. Notice the tension forces in the bottom chord and web connections, the #1 SYP 2x8's in the rafter legs.

This is not a minor change on the species, grade and dimension... #2 SPF has a bending strength of 875 psi, #1 SYP Fb= 1550psi. Those are the base design values of the material, when applied to the deeper member this is a considerable strength increase.

The engineering program that creates and checks this design is very powerful, I have nothing to compare and don't have the ability to do this kind of work. I can however check the rafter chords as simple uniformly loaded beams. This is not to check this design but simply to show the relative strength differences of a #2 SPF 2x6 vs a #1 SYP 2x8. I checked a 14' member in each case. The #2 SPF 2x6 failed in deflection at 330 lbs and in bending at 415 lbs. By comparison the #1 SYP 2x8 failed in deflection at 915 lbs and in bending at 1280 lbs. Again this doesn't relate to this design but is simply to show how a seemingly small change can make a pretty large difference.

The top and bottom chord bracing are typical. They keep the members of the roof in plane vertically, buckling resistance. The permanent lateral bracing of the roof is not included in this design, hopefully it is going to be fully plywood or osb sheathed.

I couldn't read footnote 12.

[davidj]

If this really doesn't need rafter ties then it's a very useful addition to the set of roof structure options:

Pluses:

• doesn't need rafter ties (unlike John's site-built trusses or 2x12 with ridge board)
• would work well with lofts and doesn't flatten-out ceiling (unlike scissor trusses)
• doesn't need chunky load paths to ground (unlike a ridge beam)
• much less work than anything site-built

Minuses:

• you need lots of strong friends or a truss truck with a crane
• probably doesn't scale to high snow loads
• unlikely to be the cheapest option (but probably not the most expensive  either)

[ajbremer]

11-06-2011 Sunday

Truck loaded with 20 sheets of Advantech:



Wife helping with floor:



Day 1 of subflooring complete:

[rdzone]

I know I am a little late, but did you use any subfloor adhesive in conjunction with the screws.  It helps tie things together and helps eliminates squeaks.

[suburbancowboy]

I second that.  I didn't and my inspector wasn't happy.  I had to renail the whole thing with 2 1/2 inch ring shank nails.

[texasgun]

I see a calking gun laying on the sheet on the far right blew up the picture to see it.

[ajbremer]

I did everything the Advantech dudes told me to do. #8 screws and Loctite PL PolyUrathan Adhesive everywhere.

[ajbremer]

Sunday Night - November 13th, 2011

Advantech sub-floor complete: hence...country plan jig, jump, twirl, whatever:

[CjAl]

that kinda looks like an indian rain dance. send some my way these burn bans are killing me

[ajbremer]

Monday Morning - November 14th, 2011

Here's a short video of the completed sub-floor on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVN7IQ90lcs

[Sassy]

Congratulations on the sub-floor!  Looks like you have a really stout foundation now w/all the cross bracing!  Worth dancing about 

[duncanshannon]

Congrats Al!    Exciting milestone.  I'm prob. most excited to build the walls of my cabin some day... enjoy it!

[ajbremer]

Thanks duncanshannon, I've got half the wood for the walls right now and I'll start the process tomorrow. I hope all is well with you and thanks for all of your input here.

[ajbremer]

Monday Morning - November 21st, 2011

Ok, yesterday, I started my gable end wall. It has 5 equally spaced picture type windows (no panes - just glass). Those windows are narrow and tall (19" x 50") and will be 2' off the floor. I tried my best to lay it all out and for me, it got pretty complicated because of so many spacings, cripples, etc. I got real good at it...good at undoing what I did wrong!

Iv'e got the framing books, looked at the plans about daily, seen youtube videos, been all over countryplans, and have been studying wall building but I still made mistakes. But, it's nothing that can't be fixed and it's the first wall of my life.

This thread here at countryplans helped me to straighten up: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=5354.msg67906#msg67906

I've got pics and other links to talk about but I have to get out of here, take the garbage out, and on the road to the plant.

It'll be fun to get on the deck and build the 'right-way'. Thank you for all of your help.

[Alan Gage]

Monday Morning - November 21st, 2011

Ok, yesterday, I started my gable end wall. It has 5 equally spaced picture type windows (no panes - just glass). Those windows are narrow and tall (19" x 50") and will be 2' off the floor. I tried my best to lay it all out and for me, it got pretty complicated because of so many spacings, cripples, etc. I got real good at it...good at undoing what I did wrong!

d

I had the same problem on my first wall. Three windows in a row of differing widths. One got jacks and the others got header hangers so they weren't all the same. I knew what I needed to do and what my measurements were but somehow every time I double checked my layout it was wrong. I finally got it right and went home for the night. Came back the next morning to nail it together and double checked it one last time. It was wrong again!!

Finally got it right and the rest of the walls were no problem. Don't worry, it gets easier.

Alan

[Redoverfarm]

Monday Morning - November 21st, 2011

Ok, yesterday, I started my gable end wall. It has 5 equally spaced picture type windows (no panes - just glass). Those windows are narrow and tall (19" x 50") and will be 2' off the floor. I tried my best to lay it all out and for me, it got pretty complicated because of so many spacings, cripples, etc. I got real good at it...good at undoing what I did wrong!

Iv'e got the framing books, looked at the plans about daily, seen youtube videos, been all over countryplans, and have been studying wall building but I still made mistakes. But, it's nothing that can't be fixed and it's the first wall of my life.

This thread here at countryplans helped me to straighten up: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=5354.msg67906#msg67906

I've got pics and other links to talk about but I have to get out of here, take the garbage out, and on the road to the plant.

It'll be fun to get on the deck and build the 'right-way'. Thank you for all of your help.

Concerning your delimia I found it easier to layout on the top and bottom plate.  Make sure you measure the same on each.  It is easier to erase a wrong measurement than to take apart the studs.  So if you have 5 windows you are going to have 6 spaces.  Two to the outside and 4 between the windows.  Take the total width of all your windows.  Take the total width of your wall and subtract.  That will give you the amount of space available to divide into 6 spaces.  IE: Total width 192" (16') - total width of windows (5X19") 95" that gives 97" for the spacing divided by 6 = 16.166" for each space.

As for your heigth that is relitively easy.  Just calculate the sills & studs from the floor (all included) to give you a sill heigth of 24".

Yes I am bored.  Not really just waiting on someting before I proceed. 

[ajbremer]

Thursday Night - November 24th, 2011

Thanks for the tips Redoverfarm, they have been a help to me.

OK, I basically got my first wall done, it's my gable-end wall with 5 equally spaced glass pane windows that are 18x50. All I have to do is to finish up attaching the top plate being careful to leave lap spaces on the ends so the top plate of the long walls can get nailed to this gabel-end wall. Also, there is no interior wall at this gable-end, it's at the other.

I think I overkilled my wall, using more studs than I really needed to. I wonder if I could have gone with 24" centers on my gable-ends.

Those spaces for the 5 windows used a lot of upper and lower cripplers. For the headers I used 3 2x6's with a 3/4 piece of Advantek between them. That left the header thickness a tad shorter than the wall thickness but that'll be ok - my glass panes will be trimmed within the openings. Also, I'm going to use header hangers instead of trimmers under my headers. My first header was made using 3 2x12's but then I realized that using my 2x6's seemed like the better idea. This being a gable-end wall, it doesn't support as much as the long walls under the roof. Here's the link to the header hangers:

http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/HH.asp

I bought 50 boards (2x6x10') and thought that it was close to half the total amount I would need, as far as the 4 exterior 10' walls are concerned. Doing this one wall took almost 40 boards because of so many trimmers, cripplers, and headers. My next 3 walls are going to be easier for me (I hope).

I have a question about bracing. I have seen where diagonal studs are used as bracing or where 'some' sheathing is attached onto the wall before it is raised. The last thing I want to happen is to have my wall fall apart or something as it is being raised. BUT, my 5-window configuration leaves very little room for diagonal bracing. Should I add a few sheets of OSB for support? Because of the weight, I would rather sheath the walls after they stand.

Before I show my pics, I wanted to mention that I've been using Punch! software (Home & Landscape Design Premium V16) because I feel that it has a lot to offer me. As it's been mentioned here at countryplans, the frame rendering is of no use but there are so many more positives than negatives about the software that I've decided to stick with it.

Here are a couple of pics of a 3D View of a drawing of mine. It's pretty bare-bones but you can get a taste of those 5 windows I've mentioned and also see where the rest of my windows will go. I haven't done the loft yet so you'll see no loft windows. After these 3D pics I show a picture of the first wall of my life. After all the pictures, I have a link to a 3 minute youtube video of the completed wall on the deck with me explaining a few things. I mention an interior wall joining this gable-end wall in the video, I wasn't thinking - that interior wall will be on the other end.







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tERy0DCJ390

[Don_P]

Hopefully you have some friends to help with the lift. I nail some scraps to the outside rim of the floor so I can't push the wall off the deck as I lift. You can omit the sheathing for now and lift it as is. Once it is up plumb and brace each end on the outside from the top back to the rim and the middle from near the top plate to the deck. Then put a diagonal brace across the inside to hold it plumb from racking. Keep the inside bracing out of the way of raising interior walls if at all possible. Actually at a slow pace I'd rather erect the frame before sheathing it to let any big winds blow through rather than tugging on skimpy bracing.

[CjAl]

do the hangers eliminate the need for a support stud between the sill and the header? you have no support under those headers. i am not used to building with all these hangers they use now