Al and Robins 20x30 1 1/2 near Lake Eufaula, OK

[ajbremer]

Monday Morning - January 30th, 2012 Oklahoma

Thanks for mentioning that Don but I'm not sure I fully understand. Do you mean to add
bottom plates between the existing studs and then add the ledger studs to that while
attaching the ledger studs to the existing studs? Or, do you mean to add another bottom
plate in front of the wall, add studs on top of that, and then add a ledger board on top of
those? That don't sound right, then there would be kind of like another wall in
front of the existing wall?

Thank you Don, I always appreciate your posts.

[ajbremer]

Monday Morning - January 30th, 2012 Oklahoma

Ok, I got another 10' section of wall up this weekend and almost completed the start
of the last long wall. My external walls are almost complete and I'm getting pretty excited
about my loft joists and loft floor going up.

I had some helpers over the weekend:



If I time it right, I always like to ask friends who come over if they want to help raise a wall, then I'll ask them
if they ever have had the chance to do that. If they never did, their usually pretty excited to
help and it's real easy when there are helpers. My wife's friends actually started to lift up the
wall but I had to tell them to stop and wait for me to get in the middle in order to guide it. It
was a great weekend with friends over and they raised their first wall!

Here's the first 10' section of the last long wall ready to be nailed and put up:

[MountainDon]

not sure I fully understand

I think we're both slightly confused about the other means. Drawings would help, but I'm short on time this AM so will have to try another word image.   The reference to using a ledger has me thinking that you intend to still use a ledger board, but not cut into the studs. So that makes it seem like there has to be a 2x on the inside-the-room face of the wall stud to hold up that ledger. Then the loft floor joists would sit on the ledger and also be nailed to the wall stud. That extra 2x would need / should have a plate under it.

OR, what you probably are meaning to do... a jack/short stud is to be inserted into the wall cavity and nailed to the wall stud. The loft floor joist would be resting on top of that extra stud and also nailed to the wall stud. That would not need a ledger board at all.

Hope that makes sense.... pictures don't need interpretation but I agree they are sometimes more time consuming to make.

[ajbremer]

Hi Don,

Thanks for the post. You are correct, jack studs inserted into the wall cavity and resting on
the bottom plates is what I'm planning on using to hold up my loft i-joists (20 foot span/16"oc).

[ajbremer]

Tuesday Morning - January 31st, 2012 Oklahoma

Yesterday I got my first 10' section of the last external wall up. I should be done with
the external walls very soon and then I'll begin my loft floor so that I can build
my roof up there.

Wife can't lift the wall with the kitty on it!



Wall section up, just about dark, time to call it a night:

[rdzone]

Just a quick question on the window openings, I see headers, but no trimmer studs supporting the headers, are those windows on the gable ends??

[Redoverfarm]

Monday Night - December 19th, 2011 Oklahoma, USA

Hi Redoverfarm, I'm glad you've commented.

Yes you are correct in seeing that there are no jack studs under those windows. I am going to  be installing Strong Tie Header Hangers to take the place of the jack studs. My local Lowes has a lot of Strong Tie stuff but not the header hangers so I'm going to have to look for them somewhere else. In a few posts above I mention the header hangers and show a link to them and talk about them.

Thanks a lot sir and have a wonderful Christmas, Al.

Chuck I thought the same thing and asked Al about them.

[rdzone]

Thanks I missed that post. 

[ajbremer]

Thanks for the comment rdzone.

Yes, those windows are in the gable end.

[NM_Shooter]

I see heavy duty headers on your gable ends with no jack studs. 

The load bearing side walls have no headers. 

Why is this?

[MountainDon]

I think it's past time you get those HH simpson things installed Al. Before you forget and nail on some sheathing.

[Redoverfarm]

Yep my thoughts also Don.  He could probably save a lot of explanations on why he built the wall upside down.

[ajbremer]

Sunday Morning - February 5th, 2012 Oklahoma

I raised my last exterior wall last night.

I'm thankful for this mild winter that we're having here in Oklahoma. The forecast says
that it's supposed to be at least in the 50's for the high all through next week. The lows,
just before sunrise, are barely into the freezing mark.

Me and my wife raised all our walls except the very first 20' gable end wall with the 5
equally spaced windows. (The ones with no trimmer studs under their headers because
I'll be using Strong Tie HH6 header hangers.) After realizing that I had to have 5 guys in
order to raise that first 20' wall, I built all the rest as 10' sections so that me and my wife
can experience lifting the walls together.

I'm so happy that I'm able to have my wife help me when it comes to lifting the walls. It's not
hard for her and I always tell her not to try lifting real hard, just help out a bit and help me to
guide it. In fact there was one section that I did lift by myself.

The only trouble me and my wife ever had lifting a section was when I ordered a couple
hundred dollars worth of 2x6x10 footers and they were real heavy because they had high
moisture content. I had one section that had a lot of studs in it and it was just too heavy
and would have been dangerous for us to try to lift. I got my neighbor over to help with
that section and it was easy with the three of us.

It's crazy! One board I can lift with 2 fingers and it'll feel like balsa wood,
another board from a different lumber yard will seem like it weighs 40 or 50 pounds. There
was so much moisture in one board that as I drove a nail through it I noticed sap squeezed out
the side of it!

One trick I used in order to make the sections liftable was to leave out the headers and install
them after the wall is up, the headers aren't needed until the roof goes on anyway BUT I have
to be sure to install all headers that I've left out before I put my sheathing over their openings.
(Thank you for reminding me of that Don.)

Here is a pic from my Chief Architect software:



And here's some pictures of my build that I took this morning:

[MountainDon]

There was so much moisture in one board that as I drove a nail through it I noticed sap squeezed out the side of it!

If that was supposed to be kiln dried lumber somebody fell down badly on the task of keeping it dry, I think.  The only wood I've used that "spit" at me has been PT that was recently treated.

[ajbremer]

Thanks Don,

I have seen pressure treated wood that looked and felt very moist also. Of course the wood I bought wasn't pressure treated.

Someone told me that I should check out this one particular lumber place in Muskogee, Oklahoma and that they are the one place where I should get my wood. Well, Lowe's sells those 2x6x10 footers for $5.27 a board, about a month ago they were $5.40 each. Lowe's wood is always really good, in fact they are the best overall so far, never any wane condition at all.

Well, I called that Muskogee lumber place to ask them questions and they said that they had 2x6x10's and that they were $4.80 a piece and that's the lowest price I've seen so far. When I asked about delivery they said that they deliver for free. So I went ahead and ordered 50 of them. I came home that night, it was dark, and it looked like they gave me extra pieces that were 12 footers.

When I finally got time to check out that wood pile in the daylight, I noticed that they only gave me 38 2x6x10's and the rest were 12 footers. They actually gave me a bunch of extra 12 footers. I wondered why they said they had 10 footers and only gave me 38 of them. I ended up using as much of the good stuff as I could. I know, I should have called them back and demanded them to give me good stuff or my money back but I didn't. I am going to call them about it Monday.

Here is a definition of that condition called, 'Wane':



Here is some of the wood from the load that I'm posting about. You'll notice the long 12 footer on the left and the other two pieces that I cut off of other boards.

[MountainDon]

Did that stuff have a grade stamp?

[ajbremer]

From what I see, the grade stamp is this:

Wwp (circled)
408 (with a small circled 'r' under it)
#2
S-GRN
1/4 EE
D/Fir triangle

I just learned and realized that the load of wood I got was S-GRN stamped. That means that it's OVER 19% moisture content. I never realized that you have to ask a lumber yard about the type of wood/stamp before you should order or buy your wood. Man, I've learned so much from this forum and from you guys - thanks Don! Why do lumber yards do that to a guy! Now I know why that one 10' section of wall was so heavy for me to lift that I had to get my neighbor.

I'll have to look somewhere to see how much wane a board can have and still pass grade.

Here is where I found the grade stamp definition:

http://www2.wwpa.org/SERVICES/QualityAssurance/GradeStamps/tabid/434/Default.aspx

Here's a picture of the grade stamp on back of that 12' board:



And here is the same stamp on a board with that same condition of wane:

[Don_P]

#2 wane: 1/3 the thickness and 1/3 the width full length, or equivalent on each face, provided that wane does not exceed 2/3 the thickness or 1/2 the width for up to 1/4 the length. Remember my quick lesson in grading #1=1/4 defect,#2=1/3,#3=half defect... it holds here. Basically a #2 grade assumes that the controlling defect will affect 1/3 of the section somewhere in the stick. The allowable design values, the strength calcs, take this into account.

Wood is... complicated. Dougfir is a strong species, it is fairly often Surfaced Green. Wane is something that really catches peoples eye, which is why the big boxes that cater to DIYers developed the cosmetic grades like "prime" which severely limit wane. The wood will more than likely still contain a defect which limits the board to a #2 but people don't have the same negative reaction to a 1/3 section knot that they do to wane.

Structurally I have no problem picking up those waney edge pieces everyone else leaves behind. Why? The clearest lumber is the "jacket boards" the outer wood just under the bark. There are generally fewer knots and it is more mature, straighter grained, than the wood that is from closer to the core. Generally when I saw I'll "chase the grade" My first board will be from the best face and I'll saw boards from that face until I see the grade drop below one of the other faces at which point I'll turn and saw from that face. When I see the grade dropping as each successive board falls away it will usually drop a grade with each successive board on the way to the heart. At some point I'll often make the decision to box a 6x6 or 4x4 out of the heart. Many people think the "best" wood is deep within the tree, structurally it is usually just under the bark and with that you'll often get some wane.

As I write this it is wide open to several other ways to think about "best". Did I mention wood is complicated 

[ajbremer]

Thank you so much Don_P!

I looked up some information about the 'S-GRN' designation (Surface Green). It has to do
with moisture content being more than 19%.

While doing a little google study on 'S-GRN', I found this text from 'This Old House':

3. Moisture Content
"Green" unseasoned lumber fresh from the mill is labeled either air-dried (AD) or surface-green (S-GRN). Its moisture content of 19 percent or more makes it inexpensive, but it can move unpredictably as it shrinks and dries. You'll get less movement with kiln-dried (KD) or surface-dry (S-DRY) lumber, which has a moisture content between 16 and 19 percent. (KD-HT means the wood was also heat treated to kill pests, a requirement for imported lumber.) Tom saves money by ordering S-GRN wood when framing a new house, figuring that all the wood will air dry at the same pace. But in an existing house where the framing is already dry, he'll use more stable, and more costly, KD lumber, or even MC-15 lumber, which has a moisture content of 15 percent or less. The two remaining designations, while not very useful to a homeowner, enable grading agencies to enforce their standards.

Well, he said '...all the wood will air dry at the same pace.' Isn't it a better deal to still try to get the driest wood possible?

[Don_P]

Well, he said '...all the wood will air dry at the same pace.' Isn't it a better deal to still try to get the driest wood possible?

IMO, well and in the opinion of the Forest Products Labs, the American Wood Council and others... YES! get it as close to the in service moisture content as possible. For framing that's going to be KD19, typical interior wood from the big box will be KD15, for interior high end, cabinets etc I try to shoot for 12% and flooring at 8%. The equilibrium in the house tonight based on temperature and relative humidity looks like 8.6%. My 19% framing is now at that moisture content as is the rest of the wood. Notice that I try harder (and pay more) to get closer to the in service moisture content as the joinery becomes more exacting. I don't want gaps in the floors or cabinets, I'm a bit more tolerant with the T&G and am fairly lenient on the framing as it will get rained on but will have plenty of time to finish air drying down to equilibrium before I install the finish work.

That said, I've kicked the squirrels out of the tree in the morning and been nailing up lumber in the afternoon... but that is not for a residence. I'll typically sticker lumber off the mill and air dry it till it is ready. On the current job I used the large oak timbers after they had air dried for about a year. At 8x8 they were still quite green. The 1" and 2" jacket boards that we sawed on the way to those timbers have been stickered and air drying and are at 15-17%. They will be used for cabinets and trim. I have my small kiln on site and will finish drying the wood before we start processing it further. Right now there are thousands of pounds of wood on the covered porch and the mason has several thousand pounds of rock staged there, they'll never have a party that heavy. For our house we brought the wood into the living room, stickered and air dried it. Towards the end of the heating season it was ready.

[ajbremer]

Tuesday Morning - February 7th, 2012 Oklahoma

Thank you for that information Don_P!

Yesterday, after work, I added the trimmer studs to my gable end windows. I was going
to use Strong Tie Header Hangers until I found out that Lowe's said they were $18+ each.

In the following picture of the inserted trimmer studs you can also see the window panes that I'm
going to put into the 5 equally spaced spots. The panes are commercial double paned and Low-e.

[MountainDon]

Ouch on that $$.  The prices are all over the place. When I look it up on HD they sell the HH6 at $8.44 and shipping is free on $45 or more.

[ajbremer]

Friday Night - February 10th, 2012 Oklahoma

Yesterday I had 5 i-joist delivered and a few more 2x6x10's so that I can start my loft floor.
The i-joist were $38.56 each. They are TJI-Joist (230's) and they are made by Weyerhaeuser. You
can find them at www.ilevel.com, here is the link to the ijoists:

http://www.woodbywy.com/floors/f_TJI_joists.aspx

[MountainDon]

You are going to sheath all the exterior walls before getting into any of that work above the subfloor? 

Walls squared, plumb & sheathed.

[ajbremer]

Friday Night - February 10th, 2012 Oklahoma

Thanks again Don,

Thank you for reminding me about finishing the walls before messing around and doing loft stuff. I
actually got all excited about the loft I wasn't even thinking about the walls. Don_P had also mentioned
that same thing on this post:

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11856.0

I would be in so much trouble without you guys! Thank you again Don.