Victoria Cottage NE TN

[duncanshannon]

looking good.  really enjoying reading your post!  thanks for all the photos and detailed information.   

[NavyDave]

This weekend wasn't very productive, most weekends aren't though. We spent a little time pumpkin hunting on Saturday but managed to get 2 coats of polyurethane on the load bearing post that supports the beam in the kitchen and stood it up. Sunday was time spent at Church followed by putting our feet up by the campfire. Those rest days are needed though.



Today I hung 8 of my trusses on the main 16x28 structure. I used a pulley system on the first truss but ended up using my A-frames and manpower on the remaining ones. The L-brackets that I made were life savers. When clamped to the top plate they provided a VERY sturdy place to clamp my trusses to until I got them screwed in place and the hurricane ties installed.


Here's how I used my A-frames and L-brackets to raise the trusses. The L-brackets were clamped tight to the top plate and were clamped to the truss leaving about 1/8th of an inch play. This allowed the truss to slide easily for me while raising the other end by hand. Once the other end was raised a 6 inch Timberlok screw was screwed through the double top plate from the bottom and hurricane ties nailed in place. Then the other end was fastened the same way.


A close up view of the L-bracket supports. Notice the Timberlok screw ready to be screwed up through the bottom of the double top plate.


You can kinda see the hurricane ties in this pic. Pretty sky too!


Almost looks like a house now!

[Jeff922]

Your place is coming along ND.  I love that pop-out window.  Everything looks great.  I PMed you to answer your question and sent a couple pics.  I was having trouble with the messaging.  I hope you got it.  If not, I can send them again.  Keep up the good work.   

[NavyDave]

Thanks for the compliments Jeff. Your build has definitely been an inspiration to me. I did receive your PM and saw the pics but the message disappeared for some reason.  I was able to study the pic you sent of the bedroom addition valley framing though and used it to figure my design out. Working on that today and will be posting some more pics soon. Thanks again

[NavyDave]

I got all of the trusses built for the main 16x28 portion of the house and hung 4 of them. I also hung the end truss on the bedroom addition where it meets the main house. It's much easier to visualize framing the valley with that up. 3 more trusses to hang on the main portion and then i'm building my 8 bedroom ones. I'll tell you what, i've used muscles that I haven't in awhile because my body aches AND use of motrin is going up!

[nysono]

please put some temporary bracing on the rafters ASAP, I'd hate to see a wind gust come up and over they go like dominoes....

[NavyDave]

I'll be bracing once I get the whole section installed. Luckily the forecact calls for winds that are light and variable and the prevailing winds are out of the north which affects the current trusses very little. I agree though I'd hate to see dominoes. The 6" timberlok screws I used through the top plate holds them pretty stiff right now though.

[MountainDon]

I strongly echo  nysono's comment. Strongly!   I've been traveling and have nor paid much attention to a lot of the postings lately, (over the entire summer actually) so I have some past due comments. But I have to catch up first.

Those rafters, they are not trusses, BTW... those rafters are just ripe for falling over and possibly killing someone. maybe the builder or maybe a bystander, innocent child, etc. One is leaning already in one photo and that is an indication of how unsafe that practice of no construction bracing is.

Many years back there was a DIY builder here who started an A frame cabin. I don't recall how many frames were positioned when everything toppled down in a heap. Luckily nobody was injured IIRC. Bracing that is planned for tomorrow sometimes never gets done.



Above comments are aimed as much at future readers, future builders who might walk away from seeing photos like that and think that the practice is fine. It's not. I don't want to hear that somebody got injured / killed. Construction is dangerous enough as it is.

[MountainDon]

Rafter vs truss:  Those are rafters with the top points held in alignment with plywood; a gusset. They are not trusses. There is no bottom chord. A bottom chord is required to enable the truss to restrain all the horizontal forces within the truss. The exception would be a scissors truss; they limit the horizontal outward forces but do not totally eliminate them.

The plywood does not offer much structural strength in the grand scheme of all the forces interacting in a roof. They make it possible to erect each rafter pair and that is about it. The "lok" screws do offer some uplift resistance, but won't help a lot tp prevent the rafters from laying over if a stiff breeze comes up during construction.


Which brings up the next question. That looks to be a 12/12 pitch. That means for every 100 pounds load (including the weight of the roof components) placed on a rafter there will be 50 pounds vertical down load on the exterior wall and a 50 pound horizontal outward force on the tops of the walls. What is restraining that outward force? The HU connectors are designed to support a downward load and an uplift load (equal to about 1/4 of the down load). Simpsons specs make no mention of using them or other joist type hangers to prevent horizontal wall spreading. If nails are used to mount such hangers to the walls those nails are being used as a tension device. Nails are lousy (no good) in tension.) Nails are meant to be used in shear load conditions. Screws are not really meant to be used in tension either. They work better than nails to be sure but then depend on the strength of the wood fibers to resist tension pull out. They are probably weaker than we might think.  Add to that, the horizontal outward force at the wall top is multiplied as we move down the wall. The wall is a lever. Assuming the bottom of the wall will not move 100 pounds applied horizontally at the wall top will become something like 400 pounds four feet down from the top... 



Once again, I'm not an engineer. However, there are elements in this wall and roof design that may be future problems and, once again, I simply want to make readers aware of these points. As it sits I don't see anything holding the walls in plumb. What is keeping them plumb as the construction continues? If I've missed seeing internal wall to floor bracing I apologize.  That is without saying anything about anything below floor level, and the seeming lack of horizontal structural bracing with the piers.

[NavyDave]

MountainDon thanks for the lesson on rafters vs. trusses. You got my nose back in the plans and just as you said they are called rafters. I will make effort to use correct terminology to keep confusion to onlookers at a minimum. My daughter calls them triangles though and I kinda like that name so that's the word we use around the neighborhood here.

Also I think there may be some confusion. If anyone else is under the impression that I intended to use the HUC hangars to counteract the outward force imposed on the walls I apologize. The HUC 68 and HUC 612 hangars mentioned in a previous post are strictly being used to hang my exposed beams on to support the downward force of the loft floor. The Victoria Cottage plan calls for collar ties to be installed on the rafters to counteract that outward force that MountainDon mentioned and will be installed after the rafters are hung. My collar ties (normally installed on the bottom 1/3rd of a rafter from what i've read) will be installed to allow for 7' of headroom in the loft and 24 inches from the top plate in the bedroom addition (giving a semi vaulted ceiling look). Please forgive any incorrect terminology.

It seems there's need for a disclaimer here because i don't want to hear that somebody was killed or injured either, especially if It's possible that I might be to blame:
My background for the past 20 years is in the military, more specifically flight engineering. I am not a structural engineer nor do i claim to be a professional builder in any way. I am not using this post as a "how to" device in any way nor am I offering any advice with any of my postings. It's solely my intent to document the progress on my project as an "owner builder", use it as a means to keep family and friends informed and foster meaningful discussion to help myself and other builders. I assume responsibility for only my practices and not any other builder's.

With all of that said we've had another weekend to rest and for good reason, the storm moving up the east coast brought some unseasonably cold temps and pretty stiff winds. I did finish installing the remaining 3 rafters on the main 16x28 section on Friday and temporarily braced them as mentioned until the collar ties and sheathing is installed. I also got the 8 remaining bedroom rafters built which i'll be raising once all the winds dies down. (they are calling for more seasonable weather on Wednesday)


I used 2x6's on angle to tie the rafters together to eliminate flex from winds. Possibly inadequate to some but definitely proven to be effective in the last two days with the sustained 20 mph winds and gusts upward of 30-40 mph.


bedroom rafters.

[ColchesterCabin]

I hear ya Dave. Same with my build I am a buiness/finance manager and mine is no way a "how to" but a "how I did it" documentation process. There is a lot of experience around the forum inclussive of MtnDon that for sure. Everything sometime with a grain of salt so to speak. Keep up the great prigress so far.

[MountainDon]

While people may intend to use the forum as a place to display what they have done, and do not mean for their project to be used as a textbook for building, I am quite certain that a huge number of DIY wannabe cabin builders use this and other forums as an electronic textbook on how to design and build their project.  There is no "builder gene". But building technique can be learned. It is best learned correctly. Incorrect technique can not only be dangerous, it can be a wasteful exercise when something has to be prematurely rebuilt. One hundred and two hundred year old and older structures did not all get to be as old as they are by accident. There was a lot of trial and error that caused design and technique evolutions. The old structures we see today are the ones that were well designed, well built and well maintained.


Joe Amateur Builder is wanting to build a cabin. He has never build more than a doghouse and that had a shortcoming or two. But if nothing else he does have a belief that he can make it work out. He goes looking on the internet to see how to build. He sees lots of examples and figures that just about anything he finds must be good stuff. Maybe he picks a great solid build. maybe he picks a really bad one. Or something in between. But he believes that if it is built and displayed on the internet it can't be all that bad. So he forges ahead. With some luck the result won't sink and tilt, won't catch fire, won't have parts fall off and kill or injure someone. With some luck it may stand until Joe moves on or dies of some other cause. Meanwhile one of the examples he used in his planning has had a corner sink into the spring ooze. Another has had a partial collapse. Yet another has had all the OSB deteriorate because that builder stopped in mid process for the winter. The interior grade door that someone else used and said it was fine because they used exterior grade paint on it has warped and been replaced. The insulation another builder crammed into too small a rafter space is doing little good and because it was non vented there is mold waiting to be found.... The errors can be many. It is difficult to build a perfect project when one is using a myriad array of ideas and techniques, some of which may be faulty or dangerous.

So it behooves us all to do our best, to follow safe methods and procedures. Heck, we all take shortcuts, it's human nature I guess. But at times it's hard enough to avoid the things we really honestly could not see coming. So why do things that are too obviously outright wrong and/or dangerous or at best imprudent.

[ColchesterCabin]

MtnDon I hear you but sometimes it is hard for someone who has put his heart soul, blood and tears into a project for so long to take crticism. On the other hand sometimes opinions run high everywhere but especially in a forum such as this and sometimes the experience vs. the bullsh! vs. advise vs. the criticism lines are vague at best. One's true ability to absorb constructive criticism is a skill which for some such as myself if a lifelong goal, and one I fear will never come easy..... That's all I'm saying.

As for the guy who jumps online and thinks anyone can do this, is nutz!. This forum like I mentioned has been the basis of inspiration, a lot of independant research, consultation goes into each of these builds and can sometimes be missed in the details as well. Can anyone do this, yes! Can anyone do this without the aforementioned, Hell NO!

[NavyDave]

I would agree with MountainDon that there are definitely a number of builders who have taken techniques and practices from this website. It's a great site filled with many years of experience and gallons upon gallons of sweat equity. I for one, have perused countless builds on the owner-builder forum and am amazed at the ingenuity that some possess on this site.

I have spent the past 20 years engaged in 3 separate wars and countless small conflicts acting as part of a team to ensure that we all enjoy the freedoms that most of us have grown up thinking are "normal". Take it from me that the freedoms that we possess are not normal in most of the world. One of those freedoms happens to be the fact that "Joe Amateur Builder" has the right to choose the construction method he uses to build his house, garage, chicken coop, dog house or birdhouse. If he builds a structure that fails in a year or two or even ten then he has probably chosen poorly, especially with the myriad of books, websites, local building experience etc. that he has the freedom to reference via an uncensored information system in order to plan his project. I was raised to and have spent my life assuming responsibility for my actions and don't have much tolerance for a person who isn't willing to do the same.

I have excercised my right to build a structure using a set of plans from whom I and many others consider to be a respected and talented architect and have chosen to follow those plans making decisions on modifications using books written and published by highly regarded publicists and authors and also by using the guidance of many years of local building experience. If my structure fails I will not blame the architect, the authors of those books or the advice given by those local builders. I have solicited advice and have also received unsolicited advice. Some advice i've chosen to follow and some i've chosen not to. I've been presented many options over the few years that i've been planning my family's home and assume full responsibility for my structure's integrity, after all it is mine.

I will piggyback on what MountainDon said that it does behoove us all to do our best though. He is absolutely correct that we all have that responsibility. I won't do my best out of responsibility for an onlooker who is willing to adopt my methods out of resistance to research the best ways for himself though. My best is done for me and mine out of a belief that I've weighed the available information.

I do acknowledge that the picture posted without bracing on my rafters may send a message to some that it's normal to leave a structure unbraced overnight but won't ever assume responsibility for another person's decision. I will however do my best not to send unintended messages like that in the future.

Now let's get back to building, winter is coming!

[rich2Vermont]

VERY well said, Dave! I couldn't agree more -- you express my exact feelings here. Best of luck getting dried in before winter.

[MountainDon]

MtnDon I hear you but sometimes it is hard for someone who has put his heart soul, blood and tears into a project for so long to take criticism.

I understand that. However, critical review is a continuing part of life and especially life on a forum such as this.

I have a question, but I will post it in a separate topic so as to not detract from the overall builder showcase here. Might be later today, or longer....

[MountainDon]

question / topic here

[NavyDave]

Well after 4 days of feeling the fallout from Superstorm Sandy the winds have finally subsided and let me get some work done. It was nice and chilly this morning though at 28 degrees but the sun was out and it warmed up quickly to a high of 55. Luckily it is supposed to be a very nice next couple of weeks so we should see some roof progress.

I hung the 8 rafters in the bedroom using my A-frame with a pulley system attached to it. The last 3 were interesting since I ended up having to pull them up from the outside end of the bedroom. Those L-brackets I made continue to be a VERY good investment in time. Extremely helpful. I also got 2 coats of polyurethane on the 8 foot 6x12 exposed beam that spans half of the kitchen and got it hung.


This is the west side of the bedroom addition. Notice the exposed beam materials on the lower right corner.


East side of the bedroom.


This one kind of gives you an idea of how i set the pulley up.


I really like the way the Poly brings the color of these beams out.


AND FINALLY, My helper getting out of work by hiding in a leaf pile. I think she thought if her eyes were closed that I wouldn't see her 

[NavyDave]

I've made some progress on the roof framing over the kitchen/dining bumpout and porch section in the last couple of days. The going was slow starting out because I had to make 3 perfect "birdsmouth" cuts in each rafter and the first one was a real chore. It took me till lunch time just to get it right and I used it as a template to cut the remaining ones later.


The neighbors won't let their dogs come over to sleep under my porch anymore so I decided to park old farm machinery there instead

I also have decided to hire a couple guys to get my roof sheathed and put the metal on. I want to be able to do this solo as much as possible (mostly out of pride but also to save $$) and have done so up to this point but the safety factor of working on a 12/12 pitch roof alone coupled with my slow pace and impending inclement weather has persuaded me to hire a crew. Their labor for sheathing/tar paper/ lathing/installing the metal roof and trim is $1750. Of course i'm there with them along the way but that's a deal i'm happy to strike!

I wish I took the time to keep better financial records of my project but so far based on my best recollection this is what I've shelled out:
Septic                                                                                           $7500
water meter install                                                                       $550
Temporary Electric service box/install                                           $100
Foundation material, cement, cement mixer, beam material        $1800
Floor framing, subfloor, deck, wall framing/sheathing                  $6700
Exposed beams/2x8 Tounge in groove loft flooring                     $1800
Roof framing                                                                                 $1700
Miscellaneous hardware building supply runs for fasteners etc.  $1500
Windows/doors (bought prior to moving to property)                  $900

Total:                                    $22,550
Minus septic and utilities:     $14,400

I'm anticipating the following costs prior to being dried in:
Roofing material and labor                                                            $5200
Felt paper for outside sheathing                                                   $300
Sliding glass door for bedroom                                                      $300
Exterior door                                                                                  $300

Total dry cost (including septic and utilities):     $28,450

[John Raabe]

Great pictures and thanks for the helpful info on costs. It's one of the most asked questions and almost impossible to answer since there are so many regional (and personal) differences.

Your helper looks a little bit swamped but seems to be enjoying the work. 

[flyingvan]

This is a pretty cool tool, and free---it asks very specific questions about square footage, quality of different materials, even zip code for the project and spits out a cost to build.  Really good incentive to do the work yourself when you see how much goes to labor
http://www.building-cost.net/CornersType.asp

[woodteacher]

Which brings up the next question. That looks to be a 12/12 pitch. That means for every 100 pounds load (including the weight of the roof components) placed on a rafter there will be 50 pounds vertical down load on the exterior wall and a 50 pound horizontal outward force on the tops of the walls.

In keeping with the safety theme, The actual vertical and horizontal forces are calculated using trigonometry.  The horizontal force would be the total force*cosine of the angle the rafter/truss makes with the horizontal and the vertical force would be total force*sine of the angle the rafter/truss makes with the horizontal.  In the case of a 12/12 pitch roof under 100 lb. force perpendicular to the rafter:  horizontal force = 100 lb*cos45 = 70.7 lb and vertical force = 100 lb * sin45 = 70.7 lb.

In this case only a difference of 20 lb, but you can see with larger forces you could get in real trouble calculating them incorrectly.

Hope this proves helpful.  Engineering classes prove useful!! 

[woodteacher]

I guess I got a little "cart before the horse" there.  Dave, I really like what you're doing with the cabin.  And I love the picture of your little helper in the leaves.  Little Helpers make the journey much more enjoyable!

[mountainlady1956]

That looks fun hiding in the leaves. That would be something I'd like to do with my grandkids. Blew bubbles with them today so leaves would be up my alley too ::)What a great job you are doing!

It is always easier sitting on the couch watching and commenting . I personally think that this forum is great for getting ideas & gaining knowledge but I also think that each person that does DIY has to take responsibility for building their home to appropriate codes (most of which are for building a safe home). Of course that is my opinion. We had our plans approved and our log home inspected as we built. We made some mistakes (that took some extra time to correct) and learned how to do things easier and better in the process.

I'd be willing to bet (and would probably win) that every "expert" on this forum has made some dumb mistakes. Thankfully they are still around to share their experiences and hopefully share some of their knowledge with someone else. I loved the thread that was entitled (I think) what I've learned about building -or something like that All sotrue.

I think your new house will be so nice. I do love that little bumpout area and your beams. Everytime I look you are making more progress. Sounds like a good idea to have the roof done to get it dried in quickly. That was the only part of our log home that we paid someone else to do (ours was a gambrel roof) and it was well worth the cost. Of course, I don't like heights much so helping with that was OUT! You should have seen me helping with the second floor windows and loft, etc. I did it BUT no more 2 story building for me. It is alot more work when you have to do so much work on ladders and scaffolding too. We had a huge 22 ft ridge beam-took quite a few men to lift it.  We had a beam raising party and some of the men from our church came to help.  My heart almost couldn't take watching that beam go up-it was huge, in a cathedral ceiling. I did the poly on all the logs and beams. Boy, did I get sick of doing that!
The more you do, the more I can imagine how beautiful it would be to sit on that porch overlooking your pond. We just came back from visiting Gatlinburg right before the big storm.  We stopped to go to the Craftman's Fair and saw all the beautiful fall foliage.  Drove right by your area on the way back home. Wished I would have know exactly where you were, would have loved to see it in person. Can't wait to see your roof done! What did you say you are using for siding? (or did you)
Cathy

[NavyDave]

John - Glad to help with the cost comparison.

Flyingvan - That website is pretty amazing! I plugged all of my info into it and the material cost difference was only $1400 more than I've paid so far. AND you're correct the labor costs are very interesting. According to the figures it would've cost me $17,000 paying for labor to get where i'm at now. I've put almost 5 months work into this project so I figure this job pays me about $3,400 per month or just over $40,000 per year. Believe it or not that's $13,000 more than the median household income in the county. A pretty compelling reason to press on as an owner builder!

MountainLady - My "helper" loves to blow bubbles too.....she and your grandkids would probably get along well. I like the "What I've learned..." thread also, The experience on this site is amazing, someone recently wrote that it's a "Deep well" of talent and I couldn't agree more. This area is beautiful this time of year (along with much of the country). You timed your Gatlinburg trip perfectly but I'm sure it was pretty crowded at that time with the colors in peak. In fact I think I read in MountainDon's thread that he and his wife were there right around the same time. If you took I-40 through Crossville to go back home then you were 18 miles from my front porch! Don't do that again without knocking, you'll be made welcome. And bring a couple of the grandkids, they can take turns pushing each other on our big rope swing  You asked about siding; I was originally going to go with a board and batten. There are a lot of houses around here with that but I think i've decided to go with a 10 or 12" shplap instead. The mill that milled my beams can do that siding for $1 a board foot delivered and it looks really good.....this is what is is for those who don't know:



Thanks for everyones compliments. 32 degrees and sunny, time to get to work!