Glenn's Underground Cabin Update

Started by glenn kangiser, January 30, 2005, 10:24:03 PM

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MountainDon

The cattle that roam the forest around us seem to be lazy, seeming to prefer the easiest path to the proverbial greener grass. If we keep our fences tight, and I mean real tight, they don't bother us much and go elsewhere. Four wire work best for us as we found with three wire the calves will frequently make it through. That then causes great concern with Momma Cow and she'll push her way through most anything. Keeping the calves out seems to solve most of the encroachment issues.  The elk and deer come and go over the fence at will.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

glenn kangiser

That is how my steer got his start breaking fences.  When younger, his mom was in a field across the road from his.  He could go through any loose spot in the fence and go to see momma.  Since then he has been a real rascal.  The lady who was watching him for me was a bit ticked off at him when they had to go 20 miles to get him back in.

After that they moved him up here to their ranch about 2 miles from me.  I traded work and a bit of cash for them watching him.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Redoverfarm

#1802
Ask and you shall recieve.  The brace post that I installed were per the USDA guidelines since it was a cost share and they picked up the tab for the supplies and I provided the labor.  The brace post are set on 8' centers and are doubled on each end of the run .  With a run of more than 10 rods their requirements are a double up to 40 rods and anything beyond has to have an middle span brace.  5" ground post and galvanized brace pins.  The high side of the brace always goes to the run area meaning that the end braces the wire is set high on the end away from the terminations point.  Using 1-1/2 barbed staples you drive one on the high side and one on the low side.  Using brace wire you pass it through the staples to make a double wire on each side in one continious run and they are bent over at the staple in opposite directions after you have passed all through the staples.  So basicly you have two strands to the inside and two to the outside.  With a 2' portion of bracewire you wrap two strands on the inside approximately 4-5 times.  Then with the longer end remaining you pull all four wires together and wrap them together approximately 8-10 times in the opposite direction as the first portion of wrapped wire and bend the remaining portion toward the center of the brace area.  This is the trick.  Using a pair of channel locks or plyers grip loosely the four wires just above the wrapped area and then using a hammer tap the plyers forcing it to the outside or staple end.  The result is a friction bond that securely holds the four wires together and the farther you drive it to the post the tighter it gets.  It is really simple design but like everything else my discription has a lot to be desired.  Anyway here is a couple of photographs of the end result.  Maybe they will help.








glenn kangiser

Thanks for the pix and explanation, John.  I think I've got it.

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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ben2go

I can't tell from the pics.Are there two crossed wires?When we would put up fence we would run the diagonal wires in an X.Dunno if it helped, but we never had any problems with escaped live stock.


Redoverfarm

Quote from: ben2go on September 07, 2010, 09:01:24 PM
I can't tell from the pics.Are there two crossed wires?When we would put up fence we would run the diagonal wires in an X.Dunno if it helped, but we never had any problems with escaped live stock.

No there is just one set of four wires(one continious piece) for the brace wire.  There is high tinsel woven wire on the cattle side with a single strand of barb 3" from the top of the woven.

glenn kangiser

You only need the one wire as John has shown it because the pull is toward the center.  The wire at the bottom of the post holds the top of the inside post which in turn pushes the corner post back at the top to resist the pulling force of the fence wires.  The fence wires will actually make it very sturdy the other way.

That said, I also sometimes run the x when I want to make a brace really rigid in both directions.  I did it on my T post brace in the 600 foot run that went down a steep hill and also turned about 80 degrees and went up hill.  It felt a bit flimsy when I got the first brace up but when I added the x and brace the other way also it got real tough.

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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ben2go


glenn kangiser

I went out yesterday and painted the yellow insulators black in the areas where the hot wire is near the grounded T posts or other wire.

We have tons of hummingbirds around here, and they sometimes mistake the yellow insulators for flowers.  If they land in an area where they can get to the grounded pole or across the hot and the grounded woven wire while sitting on the hotwire, It blows their little legs off...... [ouch]

No need to have a bunch of little hummingbird amputees around here.... how would they land? [noidea'
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Dave Sparks

Nice Glen! If you don't mind me asking, with all the heavy equipment you have, what is the ladder for?
I could have used you on labor day as after my brother in law cement chipped my hidden toilet flange he wanted to go up in a tree to see what was living in my screech owl apartments. I gave him beers and got him back  down to offgrid speed!

Don,
What voltage do you need for your solid state switch? Less than 100 voc in winter?
"we go where the power lines don't"

glenn kangiser

Don't understand, do you Dave?  [noidea'

With safety being my number one concern, the ladder was to tie the mule tape safety strap to....  heh

All the time I was hanging on to the safety strap with my right hand and screwing down the panels with my left hand, I was hoping the bottom of the ladder didn't kick out, releasing the top and the strap......  It gives you a special thrill when a self drilling screw goes flying out of the magnetic socket at the edge of the roof... [ouch]

Actually a few quick mental calculations with the ol' meat computer told me the leverage of the safety strap on the ladder base at the low point I had tied it was not great enough to kick the base out.  [idea]

I used a double tied strap in case one side of it broke, and besides,  I had a full body harness down in the truck along with a real safety rope and sliding safety rope clamp for backup.... [crz]

As to not using more equipment.... My forklift has a dead battery, I had no operator although a rope tied to the levers makes a makeshift remote.

My three manlifts all need work and are in other cities (if you count old scissor lifts I have about 8  ) but what a pain to work on.  The one that goes on my Dodge works but needed to occupy the same space as the crane, so after all of those fine calculations, the ladder was still the best.

Tell your BIL that I have beer and a woodpecker hole about 30 feet up a tree that needs to be checked.  Also I have a 20' ladder if he needs to use it.... [waiting]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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rick91351

Quote from: glenn kangiser on September 09, 2010, 12:44:56 AM
It blows their little legs off...... [ouch]

How I wish I had a camera the other day.  I was out walking my electric fence down here in the valley.  There were two legs - one on the hot wire one on the field fence held there in the death grip.  I almost missed them.  Got to looking and there was a starling on the ground below.  Fried the poor little guy's legs right off.    ;D     

Quote from: glenn kangiser on September 09, 2010, 09:43:06 AM

I had a full body harness down in the truck along with a real .... [crz]


And I thought I was the only one to do something like that..... ???  Must be a guy thing.....  ;)

Quote from: glenn kangiser on September 09, 2010, 09:43:06 AM

Tell your BIL that I have beer and a woodpecker hole about 30 feet up a tree that needs to be checked.  Also I have a 20' ladder if he needs to use it.... [waiting]

Actually the BIL took on the most dangerous according to a photographer magazine I was reading one time.  It stated more nature photogs loose eyes to owls than anything.  They can be very aggressive when provoked!  We might used the BIL for a ....... no never mind.  Be sure and use the safety goggles down there in the front seat of the pick up.... don't want to get them scratched up you know when you are working  :D (See item above safety rope and sliding safety rope clamp for backup located in truck)

     

Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

glenn kangiser

rofl

About the hummingbirds, the girl from the hardware store told us about the little legs stuck to the wire... no bird - just legs.. poor little critters...

Our wild ones are eating about a quart of sugar water per day here.  Sugar bill is outrageous.  NO wonder they fly so fast.  Humming bird population has greatly increased and they are spreading into a much wider area due to feeders from a report I read.  Who says sugar is not good for you? hmm

I had a pet owl I raised as a baby.  The grip on those talons is outrageous.  Luckily he was a friendly but it made you want to use a leather welding glove for him to perch on.

I let him fly freely after he was well and big enough to fly.  He would come when I whistled for him for a few weeks but after that I think he found a girlfriend as we didn't see him often.  
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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rick91351

Quote from: glenn kangiser on September 09, 2010, 10:27:37 AM
rofl

I had a pet owl I raised as a baby.  The grip on those talons is outrageous.  Luckily he was a friendly but it made you want to use a leather welding glove for him to perch on.

I let him fly freely after he was well and big enough to fly.  He would come when I whistled for him for a few weeks but after that I think he found a girlfriend as we didn't see him often. 

If you Google - Morley Nelson, he was a great champion here in Idaho for birds of prey.  He had a rehabilitated bald eagle that anytime it wanted to could put Mr. Nelson to his knees through a elephant hide, bull hide leather glove he had.  One day it just reached up and broke his jaw.

Many of us here in Idaho indeed the USA have a lot different perspective on raptors because of his work and understanding of them and educating people.     
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.


glenn kangiser

I think I would quit playing with any eagle that did that to me.... I try not to grovel for anybody... [waiting]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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glenn kangiser

Jesse - a friend who wants to trade work for Bobcat work called yesterday and wanted to do fence for the cows today - Heading to my sons for a Primus concert in LA  [ouch] so today was my only day.

We finished about 1/2 of 300 feet, did about 300 feet more complete, put a gate on that, did about 150 feet then lunch break - then about 300 feet more started.  Last was tough - top of the property in the rocks. 

The fence is complete on the SE side from the top of the property to the old fence at the spring.  That will cut the steers options if he decides to try to get out.  No more problems since I put in the electric fence though.  Hey --- that hurts... [waiting]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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uncle

Would there be any advantages or dis-advantages to using dirt-crete to back fill the side walls? Would it help any with stability and pressures?
Brian

glenn kangiser

That could depend on your soil, Brian.  

Mine is a clay that pretty well becomes self supporting just getting wet and drying one time.  I do use a soil cement for rammed earth construction and Ernie at Permies.com likes a hydraulic lime even better as he says it works better with the soil.

I find for the most part though that you have to resist the pressure of the backfill anyway so the plastic or epdm liner against a sufficiently strong side will do the trick.  If you wanted to form it and ram the earth in then a soil cement would make permanent walls with no wood.

See this topic for more info on that.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=1166.0



Done as in the above picture, yes - it does completely stabilize the framing and being rammed earth it is effective almost immediately.  It is still considered un-reinforced masonry I think but it also locks into the undisturbed soil underground.  A plastic or rubber vapor barrier would negate a lot of that bond to the soil so it would need to support itself in that case with the wood being a bond.  In that case they would usually recommend being something like 12 inches at the base stepping or tapering to 8 or so minimum at the top.  I prefer thicker though.

I am not an engineer - this is just stuff that has worked for me.

Disadvantage - possibly extra work and materials that would not necessarily be required.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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whitewolf

 :)    Hi Glenn and Cathy!!

Isn't it amazing what can turn up so unexpectedly!?!
I was trying to go to "all" your pics of your house, to show someone, and
I still see your old site, but the yahoo pic one is gone
Do you have a page with all those pics you used to have? Sure hope you do!!

I will have to read a LOT of messages to catch up. Looks good so far. You know,
when you haven't been on for so long, you go look for all the pics and then read
the posts.  ;D

Hope all is well with you both!!
Sharon from MN....then WI.....now ND..... ???


glenn kangiser

Hi Sharon.. nice to see you again... :)

Hmmm --- yup --- Yahoo made me so mad - I had to move all of my pictures or they were going to delete them.  Decided they just did not want to be in the picture business - and now - I think they have Flickr - good luck to them..... [waiting]

The pix are in the first paragraph of the first page of this topic - there is a small slideshow - click on the pix I think and a link to the old pix below it.  There may be more if you browse around in the Photobucket files linked to there otherwise they are interspersed throughout the topic.

Git along, little doggies, git along..... I'm a cowboy now.  Got my two heifers today.  Time to work on more fences I guess because I'm gonna let them party with the bull in about a month.  Just a little friendly neighbor bull.  :)



The heifers will be on grass eating duty this winter doing fire protection on the lower side.

The steer will be in the freezer by the end of December.  I don't think he will enjoy Christmas dinner

He is currently busy marbling the steaks....

  [hungry]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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MountainDon

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

glenn kangiser

Yup - totally seems to have given up his life of crime after his encounter with about 5000 volts. :)

He was formerly pastured with the two heifers about 8 months ago, but his mommy was across the street and he broke out about everyday.  After a few encounters with the heifers horns, they are all getting along well now [ouch]

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Whitlock

Them heifers got horns :-\and you will soon learn they like to use them so be warned.
Make Peace With Your Past So It Won't Screw Up The Present

glenn kangiser

I guess those equalize things a bit, eh? [ouch]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Redoverfarm

The neighborhood bull really doesn't need an invitation.  When the time is right he will find his way to them. Fence or no fence. ;D