No building permit allow foundation?

[Bill Houghton]

I understand that if I build under 200 sq. ft. I don't need a building permit.  Do you think that limits me to building on skids or could I put it on piers (footing tubes)?  I am trying to keep off of the radar as much as possible.

[Redoverfarm]

Bill I think that the -200 sq ft is just a rule of thumb.  I am sure there are some jurisdictions that may differ so I guess it "depends" on where you are at and whether it falls under that minimum sq ft.  Every area interperts the law differently and sets up there own rules and regs. IMO I would check locally in your area to get the straight scoup before I started to make sure it applies to you.   

[cordwood]

 When I lived in SoCal I built a building for my feed store that was just over the limit for permits at the time and a good neighbor turned me in When the inspector arrived he told me even though it was not a permanent structure it still fell under their permit jurisdiction. He gave me a small fine to cover his coming out and to show something on his records and told us to put a dotted line that showed it would be under the square feet requirement and write "cut here" on it and to not worry about the do gooder neighbor. He then went and made the neighbor tear down an addition that was not permitted and fined him thousands of $ so it just goes to show you never can tell.

[John Raabe]

Good story Cordwood!

It is usually best to see where the local rules are and then, it may prove better, to decide to ask forgiveness should you have to step lightly over the rule.

Also, being a good neighbor still counts in most rural areas.

[rick91351]

Here in Idaho it is 200 sq ft and foundation i.e. piers, skids or on slab does not matter.

Around here are a lot of small shed builders.  They some times display at like the big box hardware stores.  Most all their units are under 200 sq foot.  You can order them delivered on site, speced out with what ever windows, doors and roofs you choose and painted your colors very reasonable.  I did use one up at the ranch.  The bid came in at just over $250 what my discounted building materials cost was.  I had too much stuff going to do it myself so that was a bargain.  That was erected 50 miles in the mountains above Boise.   We of course had a site graded and ready to go when they arrived.  The joists and rafters were all precut.  The sides were paneled and painted.  Before they left they even painted it again   They were only there a few hours and they were done and gone.  Next day I went by and paid the balance over the deposit and gave them a letter of recommendation.

We would do it again in a heart beat.  But then I don't know what 'radar' issues you face.  Most times with a building that small as long as you are set back from the property line there is nothing anyone can say in a rural area barring subdivision rules and covens and all that stuff.  If you have them just move somewhere else because they are never happy anyway.  Most seem to suffer from Hitler complex and are as warm as Lenin.  But then an anonymous visit or phone call to the county engineer or local building inspector will pay off in big dividends just in relieving ones concerns.  Often times you just don't have to be so covert.   

rlr             

[Don_P]

this is the clause in the IRC;
R105.2 Work exempt from permit;
1. One story detached accessory structure provided the floor area does not sxceed 200 square feet.

Some areas have ammended this up or down or eliminated this clause. It is intended for a storage or accessory building, typically with no electricity and no water.

[MountainDon]

As others have said... it depends on your local governing agency. Even if the local gov allows a 200 sq ft structure to be built without a permit there are bound to be catches, like no kitchen utilities, no sewer & water, or some variation.

The way I look at it if your building-to-be could be seen by anyone on a public road ypou may be gambling if you go ahead with no permit. Plus if you have any neighbors you may be taking a chance, unless they have built their place with no permit as well. But even that could fail I suppose.

[rocking23nf]

and considering a permit costs around 100$, whats the big deal. Here it cost me 130$ but all inspector visits are covered. And he was very helpful and gave me lots of pointers.

[waggin]

King County WA allows 200 square foot as well.  Their web site doesn't say it, but if you ask the folks in charge of interpreting that, they'll tell you the footprint includes roof overhangs.  In other words, what they see from the air is included.  I am planning on building a sub-200 sq ft shed/cabin this fall.  Since I hope to build a house some day, I'm not going to try to push anything now.  I'll echo previous posts in saying, check the local regs.  Some jurisdictions may allow poured foundations & some may not.  Even if you build w/o a permit, you likely have to comply with setbacks from property lines, well & septic systems, and any sensitive areas as if it were a permitted structure.

[speedfunk]

Really with 200 foot building what the fines even be.  I always like the idea to ask for forgiveness as well as others I know.  By asking you are making code take a stand on the issue.  So now you have no excuse for not knowing.  If they do end up finding out during the build, comply the best you can and work with them to find a good solution.   

I built a shed and got code called on me with no permit.  I then filled out a quick permit and was done.

If you just do it and it looks good and no one complains are they really going to care.  I guess it depends on where you are

[Woodsrule]

Hi Bill,

Here in RI you don't need a permit if your structure is not permanently affixed. They take permanently affixed to mean a concrete tube or slab foundation. So, what folks do (Not me of course) is to dig down plenty deep, pour some good piers about 6" shy of grade, and place concrete pavers on top. That way, nosy neighbors don't know that your shed is "permanent" It works because inspectors can't very well lift up your shed and dig under your pavers. Helps with the taxes too!  Good luck.

[Bill Houghton]

Long story      We bought 40 acres with a 24 x 24 cabin on it.  This was a hunting cabin, no spectic (outhouse), no well - just haul in water for the weekend, no power (had gas lights) and a gas wall heater and a wood stove.  We used the cabin the first year, but is was old and smelly and buggy.  We had power brought in.  My son and I decided to remodel the cabin.  When we started to tear off the siding we found the rim joists rotted out on both gable ends.  I crawled underneath and found the floor joists were very rotten. More than half way gone.  I really dislike working on old stuff so we decided we would quietly tear the cabin down and just rebuild the same 24 x 24 but a bit nicer with 2 x 6 walls, thicker roof sheeting (the existing was 1/2" and sagged in between the 24" OC trusses).  After we gutted the cabin, a buddy and I had it down in a weekend.  Now we found the foundation was in pretty rough shape.  There was a deck covering this from the outside.  The blocks were moved in maybe 1/2 to 3/4" in places and it bowed in.  Here I was, the materials on hand to reframe the floor and put down 3/4" floor sheeting and I had this foundation problem.  Plus, I discovered the footings were just sitting at ground level.  It was winter so no easy repair in site for the foundation so I returned the materials and decided to wait till spring.  When spring came, I thought "do I really want to put money into this project with the footing sitting at ground level on clay soils?"  My answer was no, so I decided I'd remove the foundation and start from scratch.  I went in to ask for a building permit.  I was asked if I had power on site and I said yes.  "Well, in that case you have to get a well and septic permit and approval before we can issue a building permit" I was told.  Cost for the well and septic permits?  $600.  I had an excavator come out and dig two test holes; his conclusion?  You'll have to put a mound system in.  That is where I hit a brick wall.  I don't want a mound, I don't want a well and septic.  I don't want to pay $600 for a well and septic permit to get a building permit (which has to be paid for too).  So, I have been looking for alternative ways to enjoy the property we bought.  We have camped out a few times.  I don't want to buy a camper because I want to have a wood stove and I don't think trailers are very winter friendly. 

This is where I am now.  Looking for a way to go out there winter and summer, stay overnight, read, eat, work and clean up.  So, I am looking for ways to do this without involving officials, their @#!&^ rules, their big fees, etc...  That is why in a previous post I asked about structures sitting on treated skids.  If I build small, set the structure on a gravel base, etc... I am hoping I can avoid all of the hassles (my mention of radar above).  Plus, when (not if) they raise my taxes I will skid the cabin up on my trailer and move it out for awhile to fight the taxes - "its not a permanent stucture."

[MountainDon]

Aren't you grateful though that "they" are looking out for your health and safety by imposing all those rules? It is all for your own good and the protection of your family.




I jest of course. 

[Rover]

I wish I had the 200sf limitation.  Here in Ontario, its 108 sf.  And as others pointed out, read the local bylaws.  I read them and discovered that I could not build an accessory building (defined as any structure) before your dwelling.  I could not have a mobile home, temporary structure or even a tent.
I did find a weasel clause that allowed me to build a "tool shed" for maintanance of the land.

[Bill Houghton]

Hi Bill,

Here in RI you don't need a permit if your structure is not permanently affixed. They take permanently affixed to mean a concrete tube or slab foundation. So, what folks do (Not me of course) is to dig down plenty deep, pour some good piers about 6" shy of grade, and place concrete pavers on top. That way, nosy neighbors don't know that your shed is "permanent" It works because inspectors can't very well lift up your shed and dig under your pavers. Helps with the taxes too!  Good luck.

I can't quit giggling about this one.   This is just the kind of solution I am looking for.  I could still have my hissy fit and haul the structure off when the need arises and move it back when the time is right!   
Thanks Woodsrule!