Glenn's Underground Cabin Update

[glenn kangiser]

Update on EM use at the Underground Complex......

Spike completed the skunk test yesterday.  The last time he was sprayed by a skunk I left it for a week.  Sassy got back and noticed he still smelled bad of skunk. That is compared to the last time when I sprayed him and the smell went away the first day.

I sprayed him yesterday morning with AEM mixed about 1 to 30.   Today I did the sniff test and he was skunk free as well as pretty much dog smell free.  For a dog who eats fresh steer manure for breakfast, that is saying a lot......


The chickens finally got their Weed Salad with EM Dressing mixed in about a half batch since we only have 5 chickens.  They loved it.



I had to use Rice Bran pellets along with Layena feed pellets since that was all that was available, but they quickly turn into loose feed as soon as the EM mix starts soaking into them.

The chickens have filled out and are looking better than they ever have since I started spraying them and the coop with EM as well as putting it in their water.

They started laying again about a week ago after having a CFL light on a timer come on at 1 AM along with the improved EM Salad feeding.



There is no objectionable smell in the chicken pen either even though I have to keep them cooped up due to predators and the neighbors dog.

[ben2go]

Looks like you have a head start there, Ben.  We do quite a bit of barter up here in the mountains.

Money is not as easy to come by as it is in the big city, and what we do get up here either cost more or we have to go farther for it.  We try to look out for each other up here much more than was customary in the valley.

The ones who don't or who come up here and make enemies or carry on their big city ways don't find it as easy....of course there are exceptions to every general statement... [ouch]

My better half is from a coal mining village in the high mountains of Kentucky.They get snowed in almost every winter.Actually they have been snowed in since Thanksgiving.The nearest store is 1hr 45 min away and the nearest gas station is 40 minutes away.So in the spring they all plant gardens and when fall comes everyone trades around until there's enough food to make it through the winter.Most everyone hunts for meat.A few people have hogs,chicken,rabbits,and goats.Most people I know consider elk,raccoon,and bear a high end gourmet meal.Up there it's a way of life and a means of survival.Now that I am part of the family,I have been converted back to living off the land.My family used to plant gardens and hunt for food.All my uncles passed away when I was young so I never learned to hunt real well.My grandmother and aunt tried to keep the garden going but my grandmother was elderly and my aunt was getting there.When I grew up I didn't know how to plant or care for a large garden,so I just planted a few things that I like in small easy to take care plots.Now that I am older,and hopefully a little wiser,I'd like to become fully self sustaining without having to rely on money,friends,or family.There's nothing wrong with that,but no one knows what the future may bring us.

[Sassy]

Except for when I was 1-5 y/o, when my dad had quite an extensive garden & strawberries in Ohio, I was a city kid.  He retired when I was 18 & bought 100 acres - about 40 acres had been planted in sweet potatoes, 3 acres of peaches & 55 acres of almonds.  I learned how to flood irrigate & change irrigation pipes.  My brothers, sister & I hand planted 40 acres of almond trees where the sweet potatoes had been -- we didn't know what we were doing & mixed up the different types of almonds but they grew just fine, lol.  At harvest time we had a Hispanic guy knock the trees with a big rubber mallet to make the almonds fall to the ground & then we hand raked (in 100+ temps) the almonds since we didn't have a sweeper.

When I moved to Washington state we didn't have much money so I dug up a fairly big patch in the back yard for a garden.  I had no idea how to plant stuff & what to do, just worked the cow manure into the ground, turned the ground over a couple times & I always had a lot of veggies - except the tomatoes never ripened - wish I'd known about fried green tomatoes then!  We didn't have the internet options like we have now where you can look up everything. 

So, I guess when we need to we learn how to do stuff to provide for ourselves.

[glenn kangiser]

I like the sound of the way the people in Kentucky support each other.  I used to read stories of the coal miners when in school.

I learned most of what I needed to know about school in the second grade when my teacher had me doing 9th grade math, algebra etc. and was educating us on all types of world events and political motivations.  The rest of school was simply boring, so I read books during class and went for just passing grades.  Shop, mechanical drawing and electronics were pretty good though.


Bossy Cow decides she likes steer finisher better than beefsteak.  I try to distract her until he eats most of it at least.



Pulling on the handle bars does little to distract her but does slow her down.....

On another note, our good neighbor to the Northwest, Jeanne (from the 2008 July fire fame here) called back and said they would love to have our cows do weed eating for them, so I now have another 9 acres or so excepting their cabin and leach field area where the cows can have a bite to eat and prevent fire danger as well as abate the cost of mandatory weedeating dictated and penalized for not doing  by the local fire authorities.

Barter is great.  

[glenn kangiser]

Think I mentioned above that the chickens are now on a light timer to get them laying again, set at 1AM.  As I recall reading they are triggered to lay after they see the day is 12 to 15 hours of visible light.  Seems it does not need to be much - we are using a 100w equiv. (23) watt CFL.

Today they decided about 5:30 AM was about the time to decide for one of them to lay an egg and the rest to talk about it.



I think I will reset it to 4:30AM in light of the increasing day length....


Dang pun slipped in there....

[ben2go]

Just think of you and your chickens and I saw this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coJGRJrn7x0

[glenn kangiser]

I have thought about building the portable chicken coops or a chicken tractor as some call them, but I get into a few problems here.  There are few flat places here without roads or driveways or storage areas or cows, and the rest is too steep to move it on.

I decided the best thing to do is stay with a permanent coop and bring weeds and vegetables to them often.

I think they would work out good in the city or suburbs or flat country areas.  Here I still need to get water to them also.  I put in a feeder that will last a week as well as an automatic waterer so I will not kill them by operator error if I am gone working or something.  [ouch]

I got a semi-permanent single line electric fence up to the neighbors today and made the access gate.  It will give them a few days grazing just in the fenced off area, and give me time to fix my fence down the hill as well as the neighbors fence or figure out a way around the missing fence area.  I will also have a hot wire connection point for the portable electric fence so I can fence off the areas I need to at their place.

[glenn kangiser]

OK - a suggestion .... I think it is better to use a double hot wire on the temporary electric fence rather than the single one....

I rigged the single wire all the way to the top of the hill.  It is one mentioned option but I have been told also that a cow may lunge forward rather than back up when shocked if they are too far under the fence.  I also used 17 gauge galvanized wire that is not as visible as the poly wire.

At any rate... about ten minutes after I let them try it out, the bull was out eating where he should not be and the wire was down.... then within a couple more seconds I had cows scattered in more directions than I could run at once.....  

I circled them and got most of them going in the right direction then chased down the stragglers....back to the corral then try it again.  This was not a quick operation... I was back and forth across the terraces and up and down them several times.  When they got to the end near the corral walk they were trapped in a u shaped area and did not want to cross the hot wire, so I don't think the escape was intentional.  They still respect the electric fence.  I think my putting up a single wire was the problem as they never tried to get through the double wire.  Just too much room allowing them to get too far under the fence then a shock made them lunge forward rather than backward as they would do if shocked in the head area.

That is my theory and I am open for other opinions..... [idea]

Went to the hardware store and got another smaller roll of polywire as I did not want to mess up my big reel of it.  Hopefully I will once again have them on their good behavior when the double wire is all up.  We'll try it again tomorrow. [ouch]

[Ernest T. Bass]

You've got some real boogers there... We don't even have to electrify our sad little wire dangling a foot off the ground, and our cows avoid it like the plague..

[glenn kangiser]

I'm kind of thinking that because it was the galvanized wire rather than the yellow and black poly wire they may not have noticed it as easily.  Also - I had it up about 30 inches or so.  I think the bull may have reached under a low spot for some good juicy grass then got shocked on the back of the neck and ran forward through it.  Once they were trapped in the u shaped area they were not wanting to go through it even on a dare.

Beefsteak looked at me with a total look of ...."What the hell do you want me to do now... ?"     His look communicated that so clearly to me, I looked at the wire and knew right away what the problem was.  

The  bull and the other steer were in there with him and they did not want to cross through even though the gate to the corral walk was just about 20 feet away.  They did know they wanted to get there but that little seventeen gauge wire was stopping them.  I had a brain fart I guess and forgot about the wire between them and the gate... didn't see it myself and thought it was broke.

Imagine me standing there with three wild eyed scared confused cows about 30 feet in front of me wanting to break past me or get past the wire.... I kept making scary motions while I tried to get to the electric fence stake - one of the fiberglass ones so the slight bit of shorted current could not get me...

I can't blame the cows though - this ground is rough - up and down- rocky - steep and lots of things a non-crazy cowboy would not even want to run his cows on....

Had to work a bit this afternoon but will try them again in the morning with the improved double wire electric fence.  I think it will work this time....

I also took an odd shaped small deep plastic fish pond and put it up the hill by the water tank with a float waterer in it.  That will give them water while they are there and at the neighbors after I open the fence to them.  I dug part of it into the ground then put rocks around a lot of the rest to support it.  I already had a short hose coming off of the water tank to check the water level so it is about 5 lbs of pressure only at that elevation.  

I built a stick teepee around the back of it - maybe that will keep them away from the back side of it.  There is not much they are interested in back there - little grass so I think it will work... worst case they mess up the hose or float and drain my water tank.... [ouch]

[glenn kangiser]

Thinking about it a bit, that 800 or so feet of electric fence I just put in gains about 100 to 110 feet elevation from one end to the other, and it crosses two terraces and a road. [idea]

Got to thinking a bit more and realized that without the lower wire I created a trap.

Most of my cows are horny... I mean ... they have big horns.... what happens when they eat grass under the high fence wire then raise that horny head?  


They hook the wire on top of their horns... that's what..... [ouch]  I think we will have less trouble now that I figured that out.

[Ernest T. Bass]

Elementary, my dear Glenn. Our cows are unhorny, so perhaps that's part of the reason we've had less trouble.

Your critters are lucky to have such a patient and understanding owner..

[glenn kangiser]

They talk to me..... If I listen well enough.....

[glenn kangiser]

Forgot to mention... the other day I had the cows penned in the corral and  they had been mooing at me as they always do when I am outside working or drive up in a truck or the Bush Hog.

They think they can talk me into giving them more food every time. Trying to show them I was not a pushover, I didn't give them any more - they were already stuffed.  Just a bad habit they have.

I had some hay too close to the corral under a tarp.

After a while they got quiet like a bunch of little kids when they are up to no good......  

Thinking I better take a look and see what was up, I noticed the tarp was off of the stack.  Getting closer, I saw that Beefsteak had pushed through the barb wire behind the stack and grabbed a whole bale and was happily munching away on a major portion of the corner of it.  There was no hot wire at that point.

I took the hay away from him and moved it out of reach.

"BAD COWS.... you were BAD, bad cows..... NO more hay for you tonight," I yelled at them.

Seriously, all four of them hung their heads and looked down at the ground and away from me.....really... I can't make this stuff up....

[desimulacra]

I have heard of the dog whisperer, the horse whisperer now the Moo Moo Whisperer

[glenn kangiser]

Funny you should mention that... my wife called me the cow and cat whisperer last night.  Her ornery old cat who has claimed me talks to me also...  

More of a body language with her.  Not Sassy.... the cat.....

She would get my attention to follow her, then If she went under the end table then walked out when I came over there she wanted food- she has only one tooth and needs canned food. If she stayed there and went under the bed she generally had food and just didn't want to be bothered.  Lots of other stuff.  

[considerations]

Cattle are smarter than many people may think...usually it just takes them a little longer to come to a conclusion.   And you are right Glenn, when its too quiet something is almost certainly going on!   Good story, thanks.

[glenn kangiser]

You have that right considerations.... kind of like the big dumb kid in school....takes them a bit... sometimes things are good ... sometimes they don't like it, and you may need to watch out if they don't like it.  

Sent them down the path today... they get the idea on what is going on and they fall right in line.  Click the pix for a short video of walking the cows down the hill in the runner fence.



Here is a shot of the double wire electric fence.  It is to keep them away from the fruit trees and prevent them from getting into the pasture down the hill that is recovering from their first 2 1/2 months of grazing...and fertilizing.



They have provided the first fertilizer that field has had in years.  The gophers drain all of the water off of the ground quite quickly.  Their footprints close off the gopher holes and leave a hole to hold water for several weeks where it would runoff otherwise.  Looking at their pathway in the runner fence today it was obvious that the grass growing there was much more healthy and well fertilized than the grass on the other side of the fence that they could not get to.


At the top of the hill near our water tank, I mentioned I put in a fish pond for them to drink out of.  We weren't using it so I though it might be good for them to use..... easier than getting a tub up there too.



The pond is right below our water tank.



It made it through the first day just fine.

Here is a shot of the fence I have to repair on the north side before I can turn them loose in there.  Trees, Buckbrush and poison oak..... I went through it with the chainsaw without regard for what was what... in other words, I did not have time to worry about staying out of the poison oak.  Sassy is not real happy with me right now.... I am not bothered by poison oak since I ate it years ago....



It is about 300 feet down that hill at near a 50% grade and the chain saw has crapped out on me twice already, near the bottom.... out of gas once - it was full when I started and threw the chain after about 30 feet the second time, and it was reasonably tight before I went down.... such is life I guess......

[Redoverfarm]

Generally Glenn the cows will avoid eating the grass that springs up from a manure pile.  I really don't understand why     .  If the property were a little more machine friendly you could drag the piles to spread the manure.  I have an old set of bed springs that work well but I don't have the grade or rocks.  They also use tires ganged together in drag fashion.  

Yeah they don't like confined spaces.  I have an alley which leads from the front field to the rear woods which has an alley 10' X 100' and it takes them a while to get used to that narrow walk.  Luckily I have two strand smooth wire electric and 48" woven on the other side and they have not broken through.  But it is left open mid season and they have time to explore on their own.  Funny to watch when they first try they actually smell the fence first and then get too close with their nose  turn and bolt back but eventually they make it through.

[glenn kangiser]

Hmmm.... possibly it is time for me to pick up the cow pies and use them for fertilizer then or heating the house.... but 20 acres can have a lot of piles over it.  Oh well - there is still a lot of grass between the piles......Come to think of it.... I may not want to eat it either [ouch]

Yeah ... There are many places I am lucky just to be able to stay in the Bush Hog - seat belts are a must and it is common to be standing up vertically as we go down the hills - the dogs sometimes have to brace themselves with their feet on the dashboard.  Some places the Bush Hog will continue to slide even with all four tires locked up and some places we just don't go unless we walk.

Wet ground...wet nose... hot wire..... yeah......

Makes me feel kind of humorously sorry for them....

They are getting pretty used to my walkways now and take it pretty well.  The corrals are east of the underground complex and there are various fenced sections all around so controlling where they get to eat or smash or not requires the walkways.  I find the electric fence to be the very cheapest way to contain the cows but the perimeter fence backup is necessary for the little jailbreaks.   Wish I had my last section done to completely enclose them, because they could go for miles the other way.  

It's not like they want to go that far, especially if you grain them a bit I find.  They pretty much come back to the corral when they are hungry or in trouble.  It's just that if they get loose on my brushy 40 to 50% grades it is a real PITA to collect them back up.............

...and John, thanks for your knowledge on this stuff..... you and Whitlock are a real help to me.

I was around my uncles cows as a kid but not close up every day.  He is in Oregon,  something like 96 years old and can't die because he needs to take care of his cows....

[glenn kangiser]

Put a handrail in for Sassy today so she will have something to hang onto going up the stairs when she is feeling limpy.  We used to just use the chain the bridge is hanging from but it is a bit of a reach, so thought I would put in a near code handrail... [ouch]

Fortunately the exhaust pipe off of a 1941 Chevy pickup  fit it perfectly...

Actually it is a piece of 1 1/4 EMT 8 feet long that was left over from a job I was on... I went dumpster diving......

I took measurements and bent it with a Harbor Freight pipe bender  to the specifications needed to make it fit as well as possible.  The ends are mounted with 1/4 x 6 lags w/standoffs and there is a two way brace in the center for stability.



Also ... getting ready to start the hydroponics soon.  Here is a pix of the TDS meter that is necessary to check the nutrients in the water.  I tried a couple of ways and decided that I like the modified NFT (nutrient film technique) the best.



Seems I got mine from Amazon.  They have them for a pretty reasonable price as I recall.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_9?url=search-alias%3Dgarden&field-keywords=tds+meter&sprefix=tds+meter

In general we will be measuring around 1500 parts per million plus the original water TDS.  It should be under 2000 ppm total - or we could use rainwater.  Our water here is about 176 TDS as I recall.

Be sure to check the range covered -some don't tell - the above goes 0 to 9999

[Ernest T. Bass]

You know what, Glenn? You need to get yourself a nice milking jersey.. That was you can freely bond to her with no ulterior motives like... eating... might kinda make the relationship w/ your beefers questionable at times..

Plus, the raw milk will do wonders for your health and will give you something to drink when your sick of EMs..

[glenn kangiser]

I know what you mean, Andrew.... He thinks I keep pinching his cheeks because I like him.....

....but you bring up an udder problem.....

I am not reliable enough to have a milker.  On call to go out of town or even rushing to work around here..... I may not be around just when she needs me most.....

[Ernest T. Bass]

Hmm.. That does present a problem. Poor thing would be sitting there with her legs crossed waiting for Glenny to come home.. We're not totally diligent at milking our cows 12 hours apart on the button. Usually anytime between 8 and 11 in the morning and same at night. Bad practice according to many, but we've never had problems. Sometimes it's nice to have an excuse to stay home..

[glenn kangiser]

Yes, Andrew.... I am afraid I am destined to always believe that milk comes from stores, just like the city people.....










and besides, I wouldn't want my bossy ever to have to complain that I had cold hands.....