Glenn's Underground Cabin Update

[glenn kangiser]

I am working on two others - the one above is the first one.  The second one is back in the owners hands for now - he is competent and will be doing most of the framing himself.  He has water lines and wiring to get down there now then shortly I will help him get logs.

I decided to bring the construction information from the first one here so entire build information could all be found under this thread.  The early stuff was not here since I got it done before I joined the forum. 

[ben2go]

Ok.That's good.Thanks for the update on that.I don't know if I missed it,or if I'm so dense I just didn't catch on. 

[paul s]

WOW 2000 + POSTS,   300,000 + views, over 100 pages.

a complete book.  Some post u started Glen

[glenn kangiser]

Not a problem, Ben... most of the time I don't even know what's going on.

Hey Paul.... I'm too lazy to write a book, but I need to - almost started a couple times, so I guess this is in leiu of a book.... or should that be in loo of a book?

I would like to write a book taking off where Mikes book left off... not to replace his... his book is essential for the engineering he had done and the basic structure information.  There are so many different things I have found and different ways I have done things successfully, and partially successfully..... better ways I could have done things .. things I would not do that way again... etc.  It would be to compliment or accompany his book.

At this point I am just happy to be able to help the self motivated to be able to build their own if they want. Later maybe I will clean it up into book form ... get alternatives and info for after the basics as well as better methods for some of the basics.  

[Windpower]

Our farm is located in the non glaciated corner of WI

just below the "W" in Wisconsin in this pic

lots of rolling hills that didn't get mowed down by that last ice sheet

I someday hope to have a couple head of cattle too -- yours look quite content, Glenn

[glenn kangiser]

Hmm - I thought the glaciers ran over the whole place back there, Windpower. 

My mom's family is from Wisconsin.  Some still live out there.

My uncle lives on Shell Lake - had to look it up....  My other uncle said that it was so cold there in the winter that they had to wet the bed just to stay warm.... [ouch]

Our cows are pretty contented most of the time but they would really like some more land to mow, so I am trying to figure out a way to get some more fencing done and a way to get them into it...... Fencing is not cheap but I guess there is no way to beat barb wire for price.

Finished my two day job today - the owner is a friend also, since I have worked on several jobs for their family - structural steel work-  At least it's work.

I was cutting openings for A/C units in a remodel  - each opening was about 10 feet of cutting through double 10 gauge panels.  Others tried it and gave up.  Since I am basicly a prostitute and sell my body for money, I did it.  Some of the harder money I have earned lately though.  I use a modified chop saw - took it off of its base and used it like a skill saw with a 14" abrasive cutoff blade.  Whitlock knows which saw it is -

Safe ... of course it's safe -- if it grabs I just turn loose of it and run the other way.....   

[Windpower]

Sounds link a job for a plasma cutter


Shell lake is way up in da north -- about 200 mile north of the farm

how many acre do your 'mowers' use

I have about 15 acres for a pasture with well established grass... (that is not in CRP and therefore available for grazing)

[glenn kangiser]

You are right about the plasma cutter.  I did consider it but there was no power on site and the welder I was using for a generator was only 3500 watts on the generator.  I could have brought my other truck with a 8000 watt generator and had enough power to run one of my plasmas, but would have had to bring and power a compressor also. 

It was up stairs and down with 7 upstairs and 8 downstairs, plus I would have had to do double layouts where with the 14 inch blade I went straight through both wall panels that were spaced 1 1/2 inches apart.  There were also internal center posts which would have required a bit of chopping around.  At the fastest, I think the plasma would have been a tossup on time, but running heavy power cords along with regular cords and moving equipment would have been more trouble.  Due to cost of a helper I would have had to do it all myself or made a lot less money.

The cow mowers ate about 17 acres in a bit under 3 months.  It was not heavy grass yet.  Hopefully it will get back to heavier grass with the new manure fertilizer.  We have some more land that needs fencing.   Hopefully I can find some used T posts.

[glenn kangiser]

Worked on the house in the valley a bit yesterday and got by Tractor Supply Co on the way home to pick up some portable fence materials.  A couple 1300 + foot rolls of poly/aluminum fence wire, a bunch of 4 foot fiberglass stakes and misc insulators.

Whitlock called to remind me to get the cows out of the field before they killed it completely.  [ouch]


The cows were hollering  for food at 7AM.

I threw them several flakes of hay while I readied the electric fence area.  They had all had a little experience with the electric fence during the summer when the ground was dry - it was wet now.

I set up the fence and got the tester....hmm very weak shock .....checked for grass - limbs etc around the corral.  Still not good.  Voltmeter said the battery was dead so I took it up to the charger.

That did it.  Popped the circuit breaker on the tester.... .... yup ... that's hot.....

Let 'em out ..... Beefsteak shortly stuck his nose to it......There were skid marks 20 feet away from the fence where he stopped..... yup... this may work out....

[Ernest T. Bass]

Ya' gotta love electric fences... We always struggle to keep ours hot, and the snow sometimes makes that difficult. Doesn't take much for our cows but the horses are another matter..

[glenn kangiser]

Yeah - I try to make sure and test it, because I don't relish the thought of trying to get these critters to follow me back up the top of the mountain.  Everything is down from here.  At least I keep them addicted to grain so they will willingly follow me back.  Extremely hard to keep up with them and push them anyplace they don't want to go though otherwise.

Whitlock clued me in early on training them to follow the grain to get them to do what I want - follow me home, etc.

[glenn kangiser]

hmm That cow reminded me I need to go get a salt lick among other things....

Moving the electric fence today and making a part semi-permanent electric fence around the garden area.  I plan on turning the cows loose around there again before the trees bloom out.

Here is what I rigged to make moving the portable electric fence easy.  Sassy had a hose reel at the other house that she wasn't using, so I snagged it to use to reel up two spools of fence wire.  When the cows get done there I can move them to another area and easily roll up the wire to go to the next spot.  I bailing wired on a bucket to collect the fiberglass posts as I take them up or put them out.  Pretty good Oakie rigging if I do say so myself...... (It's OK -- I view Oakies as unappreciated geniuses and Okie BoB said I could say that..... )   




The lawn mowers have done an excellent job of weed eating and fertilizing the test area.  No jailbreaks so I guess we will try the new area over by the fruit trees and garden........   

[glenn kangiser]

The semi- permanent electric fence around the garden took me a bit, but the new section of temporary fence went pretty fast.  Just jamb the stakes in the ground in a manner so as not to interfere with things - it only requires hand tension so it is fast.  Going around corners is easy - just do it keeping the wires clear of obstacles.  Not trying to keep them out with brute force and pointed barbs with this fence.  We're just gonna shock the crap out of them if they touch it so no great strength needed....... Just a few minutes to wind up the wire on the hose reel.

Got two dogs tails with the hot wire tonight...  [ouch]

I strung it out - hooked it up hot in a couple places then got out the tester to make sure it was hot enough to keep their interest.  I have a five light tester - anything about three lights or over is good - I was getting 4 lights solid.  This will completely cover almost all of the area I would have to weed eat later in the year.  

Nothing like getting a bit of work done while feeding the cows too, eh?

I turned the mowing machines loose in it a bit tonight then put them back in after dark.  Kind of a slow walk behind them going, move it bossy... up the hilll.....no... NO....not that way ... then a circle around again with the flash light keeping them going in the right direction steadily but not to alarm them and get them to run through a fence or something.   Such good little cows...  

Found this explanation....



http://www.two-w.com/cattle_handling.htm

Hate to have them wandering around in unfamiliar territory after dark although they don't seem to mind.

Here is a pix of them mowing between the fruit trees for the first time.  



Hmm .... I wonder how well they can see in the dark.

Looks like they can see better than us but probably not in as good a detail as us in the daytime... hard to find decent info but this one was pretty good.... [idea]

http://www.ehow.com/about_6495849_eye-cow-different-eye-human_.html

[Ernest T. Bass]

Lol--I love those "far side" cartoons..

That poly wire is nice in a lot of ways, but we always end up losing voltage fast due to our cut-it-up-and-tie-it-back-together tendencies. We always struggle to get good conductive splices..

[glenn kangiser]

Far Side was the best...

I used the reel as I did not want to cut the poly/wire for any reason if possible.  I got the aluminum/poly rather than the stainless/poly due to it saying there was something like 50 times more shock power carrying capacity in the aluminum 

I don't have permanent fence around everything, so I hope to minimize chances of jailbreaks - I don't even want them thinking about trying to get out.  When it hits them on the nose like a sledge hammer, they don't usually consider challenging it again. [ouch]

[considerations]

"When it hits them on the nose like a sledge hammer, they don't usually consider challenging it again."et

I hope they are all steers. When a bull gets in the moooood, it won't stop him, but then, not much will.

[glenn kangiser]

Ummmm uhhh .... well... no -- the horny guy on the left.... he's the bull.  

The one on the right is the heifer and the other two are steers.



The bull, heifer and one black eyed steer are all Dexters or Dexter cross so are a small breed of cattle.  Still plenty strong to get through the electric fence, but they have all been trained in it a bit and no longer try to get through it.

For reference here are the two steers with the Bull.





The big Hereford - possibly crossed with Dexter but much bigger, was the jail breaker.  He got nailed hard enough when he stuck his nose to it the other day to have blown the family jewels right off if he had them.....

The Bull got hit with about a 1/2 inch spark that jumped to his nose the first night he was in there.

The Bull is a very good tempered little guy but he did try to climb out of the trailer over the doors which are about 6 feet high.

I saw the Bull react to a bunch of frenzied mooing about 2 miles away today... caught his interest for a second or two, then he went right back on to eating.


They are all under the illusion that they can't get through so I guess they don't push it... besides , with that wet ground that fence really bites.  [ouch]


All in all they are a pretty well behaved bunch of little cows.....

[Ernest T. Bass]

Sorry Glenn. You're bull is cute, but not as cute as ours.




Steve had to take him out of the barn to get that pic. Two seconds later the little rascal tore off across the barnyard with a flustered photographer hot on his heels.

[glenn kangiser]

That is a cutie, Andrew.  

They are a bit frustrating when they get out of control.      

Mine are in unfamiliar territory right now.  I have run the portable electric fence around the cabin, fruit trees and garden to get them to grass they couldn't get during fruit/leaves season on the trees.  This leaves them an area about 600 feet long x 50 to 100 feet wide, shaped like an "L" but there is a u shaped area around the garden they completely have to walk around.  They were so good... waited for me and did not even try to go through the flimsy little string or wire holding them back from freedom.

Sassy is sure they heard my truck coming about 2 miles or more away.  I pass by on the highway about two miles away at the bottom of the mountain then have to circle back to get on the ridge - maybe about 3 or more road miles.   Beefsteak started his belligerent MOOOOOOOooooo when he thought I was coming.  I got home and he let me have it.  He was standing at the front of the RV Garage... looked at me and said, "How the heck are we supposed to get home....?" They wanted water and grain I guess.

I rolled under the electric wire and herded them in the right direction on the upper terrace - they were good until they got to the end of it.  Then I had to circle them high and head them toward the lower terrace and about 300 feet back to the bottom entrance to the walkway to the corrals.  

Each time they thought they were on the right path they would run like crazy.... I'm going... like..."Don't run... you'll fall and hurt yourselves... "    Lots of big rocks still lying around.....

Critters.....

They made it home, got water.. a bit of hay and a bit of grain...  all are once again happy.  

[glenn kangiser]

Update on my rice growing project - the 4 foot kids wading pool of rice.  [ouch]

As Myo stated, I have way too many rice plants in there, but since it was just an experiment to see if I could get it to grow, I left it.  I did add fertilizer today to aid in the plants having enough food in their crowded state.

While it is too cold outside for it to grow well, it is doing good in the greenhouse.



I will use what I learn from this experiment for possible future roof top rice paddys on the underground complex.  As food gets more and more expensive we are looking for more ways to be self sufficient at the underground command center.

Here is a video of rooftop rice growing in India. I may have posted it elsewhere earlier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88gb3QWA7i0


I think it would be a good idea to provide food as well as prevent some of the heat from penetrating the roof as it is 80 degrees at night here for several weeks in the summer. It is also a place graywater can be used if filtered with the reed system as used in India.  I would also use  AEM  and Bokashi to prevent smells, clarify and improve water quality as well as  fix nitrogen in the soil and improve plant growth.

A modified mat nursery for anyone interested in trying to grow their own rice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLS2WvMoDLc&feature=related

[ben2go]

SWEET!You gotta keep us posted at harvest time.I'd like to see how much that little pool can produce.It may be a spring project for me and my 2 sons.

[glenn kangiser]

It has been an interesting project, Ben.  I am sure I did lots of things wrong... seems like it took my plants a couple months to get to where they should have been in a few weeks.

I couldn't find good seed to start with.  Finally read that brown rice would grow.  Also read that it is picked a bit early and would not germinate, however eventually I found that was wrong.  It did grow with some coaxing.  That is why I posted the last video of the mat nursery.  It looks like a good way for us to try next time, with pretty detailed instructions - plus text under the video to copy and refer to later.

I just read that with all of the "Quantitative Easing" stuff (printing money - expanding the cash supply with no real backing) in the near future food prices are going to continue to shoot up higher.  Time for everyone to continue improving their food growing skills.

Hopefully I will get time to demonstrate an easy homemade  hydroponics system that will supply food for your and more families using little water and energy.  I did it several years ago and have collected most of the materials to do it again here at the underground  complex

[ben2go]

We rarely hit up the grocery store for food.We have family that always have a garden and hunt.They spread the love around so we rarely have a grocery bill and it helps a lot.They also do food drives so we occasionally receive food from that.

[glenn kangiser]

Looks like you have a head start there, Ben.  We do quite a bit of barter up here in the mountains.

Money is not as easy to come by as it is in the big city, and what we do get up here either cost more or we have to go farther for it.  We try to look out for each other up here much more than was customary in the valley.

The ones who don't or who come up here and make enemies or carry on their big city ways don't find it as easy....of course there are exceptions to every general statement... [ouch]

[glenn kangiser]

So.. I finally wired up a light with a switch and some plugs in the pantry and after 8 years, I finally hooked up the wiring that goes all the way out to the washer and drier.....

I guess that means I will have power out there now to do more things without running extension cords for 60 feet.

Realistically though, I probably did not run that wire underground 8 years ago.  It was probably only about 6 years or so.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to figure out what you did and how you did it that long ago when only the ends are sticking out?  

After a bit of looking at where the wires stopped and thinking back a bit....dusting the cobwebs off of the old brain cells, I finally decided that I took a piece of direct burial and ran it in reverse from the washing machine back toward the power panel as far as it would go thinking I would get more wire and extend it the rest of the way later as it was visible where it stopped.

I put a plug box at the end in the pantry for a terminal box then ran the necessary directions from there.  

.......and she said let there be light... and it was good......

I think I'm out of trouble for a few days now...... made some brownie points...

Speaking of brownies.... I think I have the munchies.... better find some dessert....