Author Topic: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story  (Read 182548 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MountainDon

  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,849
  • Jemez Mountains, NM; that's pronounced HEY-mess
    • My 15.75 x 30 Jemez Cabin
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2010, 05:45:32 PM »
Yeah, dug, nice paper job.   :D
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline dug

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
  • SW New Mexico
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #76 on: April 02, 2010, 05:59:11 PM »
Thanks for the words of encouragement, That paper is tough! I had to devise a couple of methods to rig up the paper roll while I tacked it down. Add a little wind and let the fun begin!

Quote
ou house looks great, how tall are your piers, and how did you build your rebar cages?

The shortest is 18 in., and the tallest is about 30 in. You can see the cages I built on page 1 or 2 of this thread.


Offline astidham

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 916
  • Skiatook Oklahoma
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #77 on: April 02, 2010, 06:38:12 PM »
Thank You Dug, I think i read that you went 24" deep on these piers?
"Chop your own wood and it will warm you twice"
— Henry Ford

Offline dug

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
  • SW New Mexico
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2010, 07:14:53 PM »
Quote
I think i read that you went 24" deep on these piers?

Yes, 24 in. with a 24 in. by 12 in. footer.

Offline Pine Cone

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
  • Western WA
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2010, 08:22:42 PM »
Quote
I am developing a newfound respect for folks who build their own places. Not that I didn't have respect before, but after getting as far as I have I can really appreciate the amount of work that goes into it. If I don't develop a hernia, or tear a ligament, or worse I may find myself in the best shape of my life by the time I am done.

You can say that again!  I have found that even with what I thought were pessimistic time and effort estimates that I was still optimistic about how easy each part of the building process would be. 

The compensating benefit is that someday when it is all finished you can stand back and say with pride that "I built it" 

I'm pretty sure that no one but another builder will ever appreciate what that really means.

Your paper job looks great.   

Offline dug

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
  • SW New Mexico
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2010, 04:07:40 AM »
Quote
I have found that even with what I thought were pessimistic time and effort estimates that I was still optimistic about how easy each part of the building process would be.

Well that about perfectly describes what happens to me. Even though from past experience I know a job will take me at least four times longer than my worst estimate, my brain convinces me otherwise every time. Maybe it (stupid brain!) knows I wouldn't even start if I really knew how hard it would be.

Just about the time I finish one phase of building and start to get pretty good at it I have to move on to something else I know nothing about!

Offline Redoverfarm

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,786
  • Applachian Mtns, West Virginia
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2010, 04:24:25 AM »
Dug but you have to admit it is a great experience.  I get disgusted at the intial stages but once I get into each phase it just seems to intrigue me more to finish what I have started and before long it's done. You don't start walking before you learn to crawl.  I am amazed by others on the length of time to completion as compared to mine.  d*   Just wondering if I am a slow learner or just a little more complicated.   ???

BTW looks like you are doing a great job.

 

Offline dug

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
  • SW New Mexico
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #82 on: April 03, 2010, 05:14:14 AM »
Quote
I am amazed by others on the length of time to completion as compared to mine.     Just wondering if I am a slow learner or just a little more complicated.   

Same here! I think it's a little of both for me. I may complain at times, but really building is about my favorite past time. The combination of thought process, physical activity, and end result of tangible evidence from all your sweat are hard to beat.


One thing I want to mention, especially to people considering building in the future- I see a lot of folks posting reasons not to build a 12/12 roof pitch, and yes there are negatives.
On the positive side though, it makes a lot of calculations and cuts much easier. Rafter cuts, plumb cuts, sheathing, blocking, etc., etc, etc, all 45 degree cuts! 1 in. over = 1 in. up.

Just a thought.

Offline dug

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
  • SW New Mexico
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #83 on: April 03, 2010, 03:45:22 PM »
One question-

I have learned that 2 layers of felt is a real good idea if you are going to stucco, which I am. I won't be able to do the stucco for awhile, so I was wondering if the windows could be installed first, then the second layer of asphalt put on just prior to the stucco job.

Or do I need to fold the second layer into the door and window frames also?

Offline MountainDon

  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,849
  • Jemez Mountains, NM; that's pronounced HEY-mess
    • My 15.75 x 30 Jemez Cabin
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #84 on: April 03, 2010, 04:13:51 PM »
What is your game plan for flashing the windows and doors?

The idea behind two layers of felt when doing a stucco wall finish is to provide the drainage layer between the two felts. The outermost layer will stick to the stucco, more or less.

So it seems that installing the windows/doors now and then applying the flashing once the windows/doors are in place is good. The outer layer of felt then just acts to form the drainage plane.  ???  

It would be nice to hear from someone else on this though. PEG? Don_P?  How are you on stucco?
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline dug

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
  • SW New Mexico
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #85 on: April 03, 2010, 04:51:10 PM »
Quote
What is your game plan for flashing the windows and doors?

Well I guess I'm not exactly sure. If it works out like a lot of them I've had I'll probably end up deep in my own territory, 4th and 10. :-\

I have a couple of rolls of adhesive window flashing tape, 6 in. wide I think, and I've read instructions on how it is installed. Doesn't seem too hard, though I am confident I will find a way to make it difficult.

If I put the second layer of felt over the flashing tape I probably wouldn't want to nail through it would I?

Offline MountainDon

  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,849
  • Jemez Mountains, NM; that's pronounced HEY-mess
    • My 15.75 x 30 Jemez Cabin
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #86 on: April 03, 2010, 04:55:44 PM »
Re the flashing and nailing.... lots of nails through my sticky roll butyl type flashing on the cabin... all the trim, ends of the siding....  :-\  No way around that as far as I can see.



Reference documents.... (interesting read; building science corp believes stucco over 'house wraps' is a very bad idea. Felt is their recommended method.

http://www.fortifiber.com/pdf/News_Info/Building%20Science%20Makes%20a%20Case%20for%20Two%20Layers.pdf

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-029-stucco-woes-the-perfect-storm/?searchterm=stucco

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0105-brick-stucco-housewrap-and-building-paper/view?searchterm=stucco


The one thing I couldn't find is where the window flashings are placed when there are two layers of felt.  

Too bad I can't see into my house walls. I know there are two layers of felt under the stucco and wire, but I have no idea how the flashing was done. I wasn't here at that point.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline Redoverfarm

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,786
  • Applachian Mtns, West Virginia
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #87 on: April 03, 2010, 05:09:42 PM »
Just off the cuff Don with the "Grace" product I would think that it could be applied at either or both but definitely one.  If the interior layer any moisture would be channeled in between the layers.  Maybe someone else would have a definite answer but I would opt for the 1st layer if it was going to be sometime between the window install and the second layer. Just a thought.

Offline MountainDon

  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,849
  • Jemez Mountains, NM; that's pronounced HEY-mess
    • My 15.75 x 30 Jemez Cabin
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #88 on: April 04, 2010, 06:58:30 AM »
It seems the first layer would be where you 'waterproof' the house envelope.  The top layer is there for the stucco drainage plane.  It would seem unnecessary to flash the second layer.  ???

dug, watch the window/door top flashing. The paper laps over top of the window fin. Easy to forget that. I forgot on one but the 2 ft+ eve overhang that should be no big deal.   d*

As the man says, 'think like water'
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline dug

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
  • SW New Mexico
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #89 on: April 23, 2010, 10:27:43 AM »
More holes and rebar. I also started to add the skirting nailers and some bracing-




I'm not sure about the engineering (or lack there of) of the bracing. I have seen many posts lately as to the importance of bracing piers so I hope this will help. It has to be better than nothing.




My evil arch nemesis(s) have returned to haunt me-




Photos of completed porch coming soon, hopefully!



Offline Jeff922

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
  • Western Maine Mountains
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #90 on: April 23, 2010, 11:17:58 AM »
Very cool project!  I really like how you braced those piers. "When in doubt, make it stout" as they say. :D
"They don't grow trees so close together that you can't ski between them"

Offline Yonderosa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 199
    • The Yonderosa
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #91 on: April 23, 2010, 04:03:58 PM »
Interesting project.  Well executed too.  Thanks for sharing it with us.
http://theyonderosa.blogspot.com/

"The secret to life is to be alive.  To live ultimately by one's own hand and one's own independent devices." -Ted Nugent

Offline dug

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
  • SW New Mexico
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2010, 06:39:33 AM »
Thought I'd get this dang porch done before I posted but we took some time off to go camping and do a little fishing and as usual, it has taken me four times longer than I figured it would to get it done.

A couple of pics of our good fortune. These suckers were tough to entice, but we persevered!







Piers complete. My mixer stripped a gear so I had to mix by hand.




Finished beam.




Installed joist support beams and started setting the posts.




I started laying out the joists but ran out of 10 in. lumber. I'll have to make a run into town soon.




And here is where I am at now-




I can't work on it for a few days so I have some time to ponder over a few things and would like to glean some of your valued opinions about something that is troubling me.

I am mostly happy about how the porch is looking and think it adds a lot of appeal to the overall look of the house, however I am not sure if I like the amount of roof overhang on the front porch. It is 15 in. as compared to about 19.5 in. on the back of the house and gable ends. I thought 10 ft. lumber for the porch rafters would give me about 18 inches overhang but I guess I miscalculated a little. At first I was fine with it but the more I look at it the more I think it doesn't look quite right somehow. Four more inches, to me, seems like it would make a big difference but maybe when it was all done I would hardly notice.

I already have some 10 ft. lumber, though I still have to buy a bit more, and have several hours invested in cutting some of the rafters and notching a few of the bird mouths, including a tricky cut that mates up to the gable end barge rafter (which came out perfect!), but I do not want to regret this decision later.

 What would you do???

I spend too much time thinking and not enough time doing!





Offline Redoverfarm

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,786
  • Applachian Mtns, West Virginia
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #93 on: May 13, 2010, 07:00:19 AM »
Dug it is looking good.  All work and no play makes for a dull day.  In regards to the overhang I really don't think it will be that noticable after your trim boards and gutter is applied.  Many times during my build I have ran across several things that I wished I would have done but didn't.  Not that anything was wrong only a preference call.  I soon forget about the little things when something else takes it's place.  ;) .  I too have different size overhangs from the house(cabin) to the porch.  I think with the narrower front porch it may even be more to scale vs. the house demensions and overhang.  You could Always put up a 2X facia which would add a little more than the standard 3/4".  But if it were mine I would move on. 

Oh Yes the cement mixer.  Been there and done that pouring my footings.  I ended up handmixing to complete the second one.  After that experience I wasn't long finding another to use to finish up the footings for my porch piers.

Looks like the kids are enjoying that portion of the project.  Keep up the good work.

Offline MountainDon

  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,849
  • Jemez Mountains, NM; that's pronounced HEY-mess
    • My 15.75 x 30 Jemez Cabin
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #94 on: May 13, 2010, 07:07:13 AM »
For many builders it wouldn't be of any concern that the porch overhang is different from the main house roof. However, it may also depend on how great of an obsessive compulsive disorder the builder has. Like John suggested, use a 2x for the fascia, that will stretch it out a bit. I'd likely go with the ways things are.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline astidham

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 916
  • Skiatook Oklahoma
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #95 on: June 07, 2010, 05:20:16 PM »
Hey Dug,
Your place is coming together really well.
The bracing looks very strong!
"Chop your own wood and it will warm you twice"
— Henry Ford

Offline Don_P

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,526
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #96 on: June 07, 2010, 06:09:07 PM »
Ditto,
Like the man said "triangles rule!"  :)

Offline Native_NM

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #97 on: June 07, 2010, 07:21:10 PM »
Excellent work and certainly an inspiration. 

A few posts back somebody mentioned an instant hot water heater.  We installed a replacement unit in our home and had to have it removed because the PEX in our house was only 1/2" at the outlets.  The plumber who installed it (and then uninstalled it) basically knew it would be a problem but did it anyway.  Our manual stated a minimum line size of 1/2" with a recommended line size of 3/4".  The reality is they really need 3/4" lines all the way down the line to work properly.  If one reads the PEX resource literature, one of the stated advantages of a PEX manifold system is the ability to use smaller 1/2" line downstream from the manifold.  It is touted as a cost-saving feature of PEX.  If you go the tankless route (or think you might), I'd recommend installing 3/4" PEX or copper now.  Additionally, tankless heaters generally require more gas capacity (3/4" line also) than a traditional water heater.

Another thought in your local is a solar pre-heater.  I've seen one in use in Soccoro that is amazing, even in the winter.  Depending on how far south you are it might even work better.  I think there are some links here. 

Again, great work!
New Mexico.  Better than regular Mexico.

Offline John Raabe

  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,548
  • Whidbey Island, WA
    • CountryPlans - About Us
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #98 on: June 07, 2010, 09:00:11 PM »
Nice job on the bracing. That's the sturdiest post and beam foundation I've seen yet.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

Offline dug

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
  • SW New Mexico
Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #99 on: June 09, 2010, 05:05:19 AM »
Thanks for the kind words of encouragement everyone. I always feel like I should accomplish more before I post again but I'll put up a few photos of what I've got.

I've been pretty busy with various other things and now Jenny, who recently graduated, is taking a temp job in El Paso in order to (her words) "get the new grad stink off me". Looks like I'll be full time Mr. Mom for a few months!


I have spent considerable time painting things that I figured would be much more difficult to do once there were up. The eaves in particular would have been a real bear to do without spraying.

Painting porch rafters-



This is how I finished under the eaves (not a very good picture)-




I started installing the permanent rafter tie beams inside-



I was going to set them right on the top plate but I decided to raise them a foot higher. I built blocks under them to make them easier to set, and to give me peace of mind that they would never fall on someone's head. Attached with five 3/8 in. bolts per side.



Got the porch rafters up (still have to trim the ends), finished the dormer, nailed down the rest of the paper, and various other things-





I was hoping to have the porch done but I need some more 16 ft. lumber which is is difficult, me being without a truck or trailer. Next time my friend with a trailer makes a run into town I'll have him pick some up for me.

I am trying to finalize my roof order and am a little confused about the roof venting. The company I am dealing with does not offer a specific vented ridge cap, but says I can omit the foam closures to accomplish this. Any opinions on this?

I hope this will work because they are the best deal around here. I wanted to go with a standing seam roof that a company near by sells but it would cost twice as much, and funds are dwindling. The metal I am getting will come to about $2400, delivered.

I am very apprehensive about the roof install. The front side won't be so bad, as I have the front porch as a base to start from, but the back- I have no idea! I am thinking ropes and a harness, however I've found that they are difficult to position so you can work and be secure at the same time. A cable running across the ridge that you could clip a rope to seems like it would work well, but might be tough to rig.

Ideas?? Any suggestions that would make this easier would be extremely helpful!

Thanks for looking!


 

Templates: 5: index (default), Ads (default), Portal (default), Display (default), GenericControls (default).
Sub templates: 12: init, html_above, adsheaders_above, body_above, adsindex_above, portal_above, main, portal_below, adsindex_below, body_below, adsheaders_below, html_below.
Language files: 3: SPortal.english (default), index+Modifications.english (default), Ads.english (default).
Style sheets: 1: portal (default).
Files included: 38 - 1124KB. (show)
Cache hits: 14: 0.00154s for 40,800 bytes (show)
Queries used: 28.

[Show Queries]