Author Topic: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story  (Read 182530 times)

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Offline poppy

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2009, 06:15:31 PM »
Great build story so far.  [cool]

Of
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course there is the budget, so we are trying to keep it at around $200 a window or even less if possible. Any suggestions?
try craigslist.  I got lowE vinyl for $25 a window.  8)

Offline WoodSprite

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2009, 06:22:16 PM »
Great build story so far.  [cool]

Of
Quote
course there is the budget, so we are trying to keep it at around $200 a window or even less if possible. Any suggestions?
try craigslist.  I got lowE vinyl for $25 a window.  8)

What he said.  We've got so many great doors and windows tarped and stored - all from Craigslist - that I had to swear off Craigslist for fear we wouldn't have enough wall space for our books.  I wouldn't even look at anything over $100. 
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This place was made by doing impractical things we could not afford at the wrong time of year.   -Henry Mitchell

Offline speedfunk

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2009, 06:25:34 PM »
Dug  , thanks for sharing the great pics and story.

 I know the feeling as I'm sure others do of trying to be perfect.  I've also noticed that people that build for a living tend to understand what is a a safe margin of error, or "Fudge factor" .  1/8 " off is no big deal or whatever.  My builder friend that has helped a few times mentions stories of pro's building foundations 4"'s out of square etc.  He is usually impressed with our accuracy ( not so much our speed lol).  People building for a living cant spend all day getting everything perfect .  git it done!

GL with the homestead...we will be following along.
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Offline speedfunk

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2009, 06:28:22 PM »
We've done good at local auctions and craigslist as well
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Offline dug

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2009, 07:20:32 AM »
Quote
I've also noticed that people that build for a living tend to understand what is a a safe margin of error, or "Fudge factor" .  1/8 " off is no big deal or whatever.  My builder friend that has helped a few times mentions stories of pro's building foundations 4"'s out of square etc.  He is usually impressed with our accuracy ( not so much our speed lol).  People building for a living cant spend all day getting everything perfect .  git it done!

Very true. I was talking to an old friend the other day and proudly explained to him how I had got everything lined up all perfect and square, to which he replied- "you wasted your time, anything within an inch (diagonal measurements) would have been fine". Not trying to belittle my work, he stated this as a simple point of fact. He does this sort of thing for a living and I can understand that if you built all the time it would be no big deal to make up for small indescrepencies in ways that no one would ever notice. I do not build for a living and just figured getting everything tight would make things less complicated down the line. Besides, though he may have been technically right about wasting time the satisfaction I gained with just 1 extra day (O.K. maybe two) was worth it, for me.

He enjoys giving me a hard time- says he can't believe I haven't got it dried in yet!

Offline dug

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2009, 07:28:58 AM »
I am also a fan of craigslist. When we lived in the city good deals popped up all the time, lots of folks with $$$ remodeling all the time. Unfortunately here in the sticks the treasure hunting is not so good. I will keep trying though.

Offline dug

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2009, 07:32:35 AM »
Thanks Mt. Don for the link- lots of great info!

How's the weather there? We are getting hammered with rain/ sleet/ snow, and 40 mph winds!

Offline MountainDon

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2009, 09:01:29 AM »
Here at home (Rio Rancho) it's 32 and winds up to 40 mph. Up at the cabin it's only 18 and with similar winds.

It rained here last night and some snow up in the mtns. We let there yesterday AM when it started snowing. Still cloudy up there, going by the small amount of sunshine falling on the meter so far, Or it's covered in snow.  ???
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline considerations

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2009, 04:22:09 PM »
"to which he replied- "you wasted your time, anything within an inch (diagonal measurements) would have been fine"."

Don't listen to this guy
I'll tell you why
Start a little out of square
and it gets lots worse when you get "up there"
Experienced builders know what to do when an "oops" multiplies itself further on
Us pilgrims get stuck and wonder how it all could have got so wrong
Then we hire some ape just like him
to tear it all down and stick it back together again.

He's just bolstering his job security.  Its hard enough for an amateur to get each little step right, its really hard to compensate for an out of square floor when you are trying to put walls together at the corners or siding on or or or......

Your bragging rights are intact.  [cool]

Offline WoodSprite

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2009, 11:43:37 AM »
Besides, though he may have been technically right about wasting time the satisfaction I gained with just 1 extra day (O.K. maybe two) was worth it, for me.

...and just think how impressed we all are with your foundation!  Never seen anything like it...certainly not on OUR land.  And (today) the most impressive thing of all is no backfilling.  Color me green.
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This place was made by doing impractical things we could not afford at the wrong time of year.   -Henry Mitchell

Offline dug

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2009, 01:00:42 PM »
So I've been I have been trying hard to get this floor plan nailed down before I start doing some real nailing on the wall framing (I know, I should have had this done already). It has been a real struggle for me I can tell you.

This is my latest version-



Some of my design goals were-

large kitchen
defined entryway, an area to kick off your boots
take advantage of the best views to the south and east
defined areas for the different rooms and a good overall flow
decent storage

I failed on the last one, compromises were made. Also, the living/ dining area with diagonal lines is raised 15 inches higher than the rest of the bottom floor, also I plan on laying the wood floor this way here. I borrowed this idea from the Building with Awareness site I mentioned earlier in this thread. A good way (I think) to lend definition to rooms in small homes. The dotted lines over the kitchen area represent beam supporting loft joists, and the end of the loft. Loft will be about 13.5 ft. by 20.

I like, but it is not perfect. As large as the kitchen is I am having a hard time coming up with a good pantry area.

I would appreciate it, if anyone is so inclined to chime in with any suggestions that may improve the layout, keeping in mind what I am after. Or, if you think I should just scrap the whole thing and start over- I am all ears.

Offline dug

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2009, 01:04:12 PM »
Your bragging rights are intact. 

Thanks considerations- I noticed on your thread you had a struggle as well, but prevailed in the end. It's not as easy as it looks huh?

Great job on your place- I am jealous!

Offline considerations

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2009, 01:27:51 PM »
Yeah like 3 dimensional chess.   This forum saved my bacon more than once.

Offline Pine Cone

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2009, 09:46:13 PM »
Nice project!

For your pantry dilemma, you might consider something like this system replacing some of the counter area closest to the door.  Not cheap, but it looks like a great option for lots of accessible storage in a small space.
You could also modify your under-stair storage slightly to have a deeper storage space on the entry hall side and shallow pantry storage shelves (maybe just 9-12 inches) on the water heater side. 

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=48709&cat=3,43722,43723&ap=1

One question for you and some of the other builder's here.  Are you sure you only want one door?  I've lived in two buildings with only one door, and while it does work, for safety and aesthetics I like having two.

Offline rwanders

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2009, 11:13:46 PM »
I've found pocket doors often work well, especially to save space in smaller homes-----have you considered one for your bathroom door?
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Now lives in St Augustine, Florida

Offline poppy

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2009, 07:15:36 AM »
I tend to agree with Pine Cone on the pantry idea, assuming the stairway is about 3' wide.  Another alternative is to place the pantry at the high end of the stairway with a door or doors directly off the kitchen.

I guess I don't understand the desire to have a large kitchen in that configuration, unless it's a throwback to the old style country kitchen with a table in the center of the room, or having space for a wood stove.

Actually for a small home, that is a huge kitchen.  My sister has a kitchen like that and it's not a very efficient work space. It seems to be better suited for a dance floor.  ???

There are so many good kitchen layouts, that it is very unusual to see a big square room.

What about laundry facilities?  Upstairs?  A different layout in the kitchen area would allow for a laundry room.  I don't mean to be so critical, but you asked...  ;)

I also don't completely understand the raised living room.  Don't you now have a flat deck?

Offline phalynx

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2009, 07:21:35 AM »
Dug, you might look into an outdoor on demand water heater and use that space you have as a closet.  I installed one on my place and it works fantastic.  They used to say they couldn't heat the water enough to get it hot and I can tell you in the dead of "winter" in Austin, we have the unit set at 120 and we can take 2 showers at the same time.  140 is just too hot.

Offline John Raabe

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2009, 07:21:52 AM »
Is there a second door to the outside? Perhaps at the bottom of the stair on the back wall? Always a good safety feature.
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Offline dug

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2009, 08:28:39 AM »
Thanks for the replies and great suggestions

Pine Cone: love the compact pantry- kind of expensive but maybe I can build something similar. I had thought of splitting up the stairway closet as you suggested but for some reason thought it wouldn't work. I'll have to re-think it.

rwanders: good idea on the pocket door- it might help in designing the bathroom a bit smaller, though I must admit that of all the rooms this was my favorite layout.

poppy: I agree that the kitchen is a bit too big, and maybe the living/ dining area too small but it is complicated, for me anyway. I really have my heart set on having the kitchen in the SE corner of the house and that is also the best views. I want nice windows, but windows seem not so conducive to efficient kitchen design. I found it difficult to find good homes for the stove and fridge. Also I am trying to incorporate the center (loft supporting beam) as a design element, not really wanting to hide it. There will be an open beam and deck supporting the loft.
In the first attempt I drew up the loft was only 12 ft wide instead of 13.5. Same exact design but a foot and a half more room in living/ dining area, and the same amount less in kitchen, bath, etc. In many ways I liked it better but it really squeezed the bathroom and area for WH. I am trying to avoid a bathroom door that is directly visible from the kitchen. I don't know why, it just bothers me.
We have a separate laundry building. I was going to try and fit a washer in but it decided against
As to the raised floor, I don't know why but I just kind of like it. Adds interest and creates a cozy atmosphere, I think anyway. Check out the link I posted earlier on this thread and see what you think.
Do not worry about offending me. I really appreciate the input, that's why I asked!

Phalynx: I think you are right about the idea of on demand hot water heater. That would allow me to use that space for a great storage area. Thanks!

John Raabe: I also agree about having another door. I was trying to fit one in on the east wall in the kitchen, but gave up on the idea because of space considerations. I like your suggestion and will take it to heart. My only concern is I was trying to eliminate openings on the north side. Any ideas for a super insulated door?

Well, I guess its back to the drawing board. Speaking of which, I really wish I had a drafting table. Anyone know of a really easy to use online design program?



Offline poppy

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2009, 09:14:49 AM »
I use GoogleSketchUp.  It's pretty easy to use and it's free.

Offline considerations

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2009, 10:14:45 AM »
I may have gotten a little carried away, but here you go.....food for thought anyway.  I moved the woodstove because it looked like it was going to pop out of the roof right where a ridge beam would go....then just went a little crazy from there.  I like the concept of your living space, but like some of the others couldn't abide only one door.  I have four in my 14 x 24 one is upstairs as a fire escape.  Anyway.....




Having an outside door in the bathroom makes it into a mudroom, specially if there is a w/d in there.  So you can get cleaned up without tramping through the living space.....this planning stuff is really fun.

Offline Sassy

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2009, 12:39:46 PM »
I like your plan, considerations but I was thinking French doors in livingroom that could open out onto a deck... 
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Offline OkieJohn2

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dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2009, 01:47:38 PM »
I really hate corner cabinets in kitchens, those lazy susan base cabinets are a pain, the one thing you really need always has fallen off in the back. One solution would be to add a pop-out where you show the range and the counter on each side of it. It wouldn't have to be a really deep pop out, something greater than 25 inches up to perhaps 30 inches. You could swap the range and sink and place skinny windows on the ends(the East and West sides) and have a double window over the sink. 
I don't really like the bathroom door there, so here I go again increasing the foot print.  How about a hallway going from where the shower is to where the toilet is. This would lead to perhaps a shed roofed laundry/mud room/utility room with the secondary egress(love that word).  You could have the pocket door on the right hand wall going to the bathroom.  then you could put the toilet where the w/d is and the shower either where the lavatory is or where the hot water closet is.
Now for the big finish, On the left side of the hallway you could have a series of pull outs, perhaps on wheels or using those heavy duty drawer glides. the could be several steps wide or maybe a single sep wide.  Near the landing you could have a two or three step pull out box for big stuff you don't use often, like your pressure canner and the big roasting pan you use twice a year. You might still have room for a closet facing the living area backed with open shelves on the hallway side which would be easily accesible from the kitchen.
So by now you are saying "why don't ya draw me a stinkin' picture, for goodness sakes" and I have to admit I will try this weekend, I just got Chief Architect 9 suite and need to practice.....a lot.
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Offline considerations

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2009, 04:27:17 PM »
"I really hate corner cabinets in kitchens, those lazy susan base cabinets are a pain, the one thing you really need always has fallen off in the back."

You don't have to have a corner cabinet, just put the corner cabinet's door on the bar stool side and use it for plates, placemats, etc. That way your "partner" can set the table without invading the kitchen space. 

"I don't really like the bathroom door there."




Too much time on my hands I guess.   ;D

Offline dug

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Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2009, 04:41:36 PM »
Quote
I moved the woodstove because it looked like it was going to pop out of the roof right where a ridge beam would go....then just went a little crazy from there.

considertions; Interesting ideas- love the feedback! After I started drawing the floor plan up I realized the stove was right at the ridge. I was either going to move it or put a couple of 45 degree elbows in the pipe to move it over. I will also have egress in the loft. Mud room is a good idea. Will mull it over some more.

Quote
...this planning stuff is really fun.

Maybe for some, torture for me. I am good with working, but not so much for planning.

 

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