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General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: dug on December 06, 2009, 06:57:26 AM

Title: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 06, 2009, 06:57:26 AM
The dream started about 3 years ago when we decided to sell our (small) business and get out of the city. I always thought  there had to be a little more to life than the standard rat race>retirement>old folks home. To me life is an adventure, and a fleeting one at that. Sure, there are those who believe that through reincarnation we will have endless opportunities to amend our previous life's failures, and this may be true- or may not. I like things that are tangible, things that I can feel, taste, and smell. I appreciate the fact that while I am healthy, warm and breathing today, there is no guarantee that will be the case tomorrow. Some think this is a fatalistic attitude but I simply view it as reality, almost reassuring in that life and death are cyclical. Without one there could not be the other. Time waits for no one, and at 47 it sure as heck aint waiting on me. carpe diem!!!!
    So..... we cashed in our chips and bought 10 acres along a river in SW New Mexico with the intent of more or less homesteading. There were a couple of trailers and a well already here which gave us a nice home base to start from.
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this is my wife and I's 'home'. I couldn't find a recent photo but I have since winterized it with metal skirting and insulation.
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this is where my kids (10 & 12 y/o) live. I started shining it up but got tired. I also built the 'sombrero' (roof) to make it a little more tolerable during the summer heat. As you can see, we are not your typical family!

Here are a couple of photos of our 'road' during the summer monsoon. We have to cross a small river to reach our property.
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thats my older son on the bike.

this is our future homesite
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My inspiration for starting this thread is part selfishness- I will probably have about a million and a half questions and value the expert opinions here greatly, and also partly to aid future first time home builders as many of you have helped me. I will give you a hint though, sometimes the most valuable lesson is knowing what not to do  d*, in which case you may learn quite a bit from me.

Embarking on this building adventure is one of the most challenging and exciting events of my life (so far!), after all, what warm blooded individual has not entertained the thought of building their own home?  I will post photos of our progress so far soon, but right now I have to get to work. Luckily my commute is only about 50 yards.








 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on December 06, 2009, 07:31:51 AM
Good outlook on life.  As you stated it is the journey that makes life complete.  With keeping that in mind I hope you will keep us in mind as you progress through the various stages of your build.  Pictures are cheap and sometimes become invaluable when trying to progress to the next or later steps.  Sometimes a view point from someone else will help you make the proper choices in determining " what if" , "which way" or "what now" arises.  I hope we can contribute to your success and in turn you to ours.

I hope thats the river and not the road your son is riding in.   ;D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 06, 2009, 11:08:48 AM
Nope, that is our road. This is the river, that's me using 'alternative' energy.
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fcrossng-mimbres.jpg&hash=b285a015426862c14dc5915c60fb6faa)


It is usually about 1 ft. deep at the crossing but during monsoons can be a raging torrent, usually only for a few hours but we have been stuck here for a few days. We keep a good stock of food and essentials and leave another car on the other side. There is a large fallen cottonwood that we use as a bridge if necessary.

More photo updated coming soon- I am just taking a lunch break now.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on December 06, 2009, 11:18:56 AM
There is a road not far from my house that a family lives some 6 miles from the main highway.  They have to cross the stream 8 times in the their travel to the house.  Yes there are still some roads like that.  As long as you can cross it and not have to drive up the creekbed too far then I guess you can keep a solid crossing.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: mldrenen on December 06, 2009, 12:06:00 PM
That's a nice little setup you have there, and the property looks beautiful.  Looking forward to seeing you progress on your homestead.

Is that a Niner in the river-crossing picture?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: mldrenen on December 06, 2009, 12:08:02 PM
That's a nice little setup you have there, and the property looks beautiful.  Looking forward to watching your progress.

Is that a Niner in the river-crossing picture?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 06, 2009, 04:12:15 PM
Quote
That's a nice little setup you have there, and the property looks beautiful.  Looking forward to seeing you progress on your homestead.

Is that a Niner in the river-crossing picture?

Good eye Milderen, thats my wife's Raleigh 29'er single speed. Way too small for me, I was just fooling around with the kids. I've got a Surley (also 29'er ss)

Will try to make progress on this post  after kids are fed and happy!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: mldrenen on December 06, 2009, 04:28:35 PM


Good eye Milderen, thats my wife's Raleigh 29'er single speed. Way too small for me, I was just fooling around with the kids. I've got a Surley (also 29'er ss)



You must be huge.....they almost look like little wheels. 

I've had a CrossCheck for years, and love the heck out of it.  Surly makes a pretty good bike for taiwanese-welded lead pipe. 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 06, 2009, 06:01:15 PM

You must be huge.....they almost look like little wheels.


I'm 6 ft. 3 in. and getting shorter every year

Quote
I've had a CrossCheck for years, and love the heck out of it.  Surly makes a pretty good bike for taiwanese-welded lead pipe.

I owned a bike shop for about 15 years and we sold lots of Surlys. A little heavy maybe, and not so bling bling- but I love them!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: glenn kangiser on December 06, 2009, 07:56:27 PM
Looks like an interesting adventure, dug and family. :)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: TexstarJim on December 06, 2009, 08:43:56 PM
Best of luck to you dug, and keep us informed as you can with pictures and updates. w*
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 07, 2009, 07:18:03 AM
Our first mission after purchasing the property was hauling several truckloads of junk to the dump. Luckily there is one only a couple of miles away. I say luckily because there is not too much else close by!

My first thought after seeing this was- Man, thats going to no fun to tear down and haul away!

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My wife however (the smart one) had different ideas. With a bit of work, and utilizing some of the stuff we found lying around on the property we turned it into a first class chicken coop.

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One of my dogs seemed just a little bit too interested in the new residents. You can almost see him drooling!

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reaping some of the rewards

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Next, I had to come up with a dry place to store tools and miscellaneous hardware. I had fooled around with a lot of small projects in my past, but this would be my largest project to date

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I couldn't locate any good photos of it completed, but it turned out real nice and gave me some good practice for upcoming events. I did find a pretty funny shot that documents my indecisiveness. After I had it built I moved it because I decided that it was just about where I wanted the house to be. I found a junked out trailer on the property, cut the axle in half, then temporally bolted it to the shed. Worked out fine, with no embarrassing mishaps.

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Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 07, 2009, 08:08:57 AM
Phase ll- Planning for home.

I hemmed and hawed for a long time trying to decide what to build. At first, I was pretty sold on this hybrid- straw bale/adobe passive solar design I found.http://www.buildingwithawareness.com/ (http://www.buildingwithawareness.com/)
If you haven't seen it, it might be worth checking out. Some really good ideas for a very efficient small home. For various reasons I decided against it, one of the main ones being my back which has betrayed me in recent years (or rather I have betrayed it!) and moving around individual pieces of lumber seemed a lot easier than heaving straw bales and hauling adobe. Besides, I like working with wood, and I am familiar with it. Luckily I stumbled across this website and found the design I was looking for. We ordered the 20 by 30 plans and got started.

Here is the beginning of our layout - we used rocks to get a feel for how we wanted things. The fire ring is about where the wood stove will go.

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I used a water level (clear 50 ft. 1/2 in. plastic tube) to lay out my batter boards, and later to set pier height. I can tell you that I highly recommend it. Cheap, simple, and highly accurate! It is slower, I probably hoofed it several miles going back and forth- double checking my reads, but I'd wager it is more accurate than all but the most expensive laser levels. Most of them list (on their specifications) plus/minus 1/8 in. or more @ 50 ft. Good enough I suppose but with a good eye you can get a water level to about plus/ minus nothing! I had no adjustability with my pier design so I wanted everything dead on. Later down the line the laws of physics proved me right.

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(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Flevel.jpg&hash=81096c5430e981e46b4ce48e34a06b19)

Next it was time to start digging. My back started to complain just at the thought of it. The soil here (thats what they call it) is pretty much the equivalent of concrete and a shovel is used only after you bust it up with a heavy, pointed digging bar. I used a steel fire ring as a guide (left, middle hole in the photo) and it was just the right size to make neat 2 ft. holes to pour my footers into.

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Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 07, 2009, 09:19:09 AM
Phase lll- out of the ground

From the time I dug the holes, to the time I actually started pouring concrete apx. 1 & 1/2  elapsed. This was due to some unexpected financial difficulties we encountered, the details of which I will not bore you with. I will give you a three letter hint though, I-R-S, (aka thieves). Anyway, One of our primary goals was to complete our little homestead while acquiring no debts. I didn't really want to start our home until we had the money to complete the job. Finally I decided to start anyway. We had enough to get it dried in, and will finish the rest as funds allow. Lumber seemed pretty cheap an the time so I took the plunge and ordered enough  to do all the framing.

I first started lining up to dig holes for footers. Since the holes would be the forms, I wanted them pretty close.

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I don't know much about concrete work, but these are some of the rebar forms I assembled to tie the footer to the pier.

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I poured the piers in 2 parts- first did the footings, 2 ft. by apx. 12 in. I lined up the rebar using my string line and plumb bob first and braced them like in the photo below. I placed a small rock underneath the rebar to keep it about 2 in. off the bottom of the hole.

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After all the footers and rebar I got busy placing the forms. This was pretty time consuming because I had decided to use simpson brackets directly embedded in the concrete piers. Since there would be no adjustability (other than shimming) I had to be accurate. My plan was to carefully measure, then cut the cardboard forms so they would set on the (now dry) footers and be at the right level (used water level for this). Easier said than done however, as they also had to be positioned correctly and plumb. With a little (er.. LOT!) of fanegelling and a bit of swearing I got them all good and backfilled the holes to keep everything square as I poured concrete. I had thought of running them all high, then using water level to mark them, then cut them, but for some reason decided against.

This is the method I used to make sure the piers were lined up.

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I decided to pour the corner piers, and 2 end piers for the middle beam first and let them dry a few days. I did this so I could string lines between the end brackets in order to line up the ones on the other piers. I also decided, kind of last minute, to insert 2 concrete anchor bolts in each pies that faced the outside of the house (4 in the corner piers). My idea is to attach 2 by 4 lumber that will form two parallel bands around the outside of the pier foundation. I can then later use it to attach metal skirting around the perimeter, and also fit in some bracing.
here is one of the corner piers-

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and this is a shot of the method I used to place the remaining brackets- a very nervous time for me.

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Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 10:18:07 AM
What amazes me the most about a lot of posters here is the perfection. 

As I rip through trying to get our little cabin built I occassionally do this:  Hmmm...it's only 1/8th of an inch out in 4 feet and I can fudge it becuase it's 10 degrees out and I want the dang roof on.....

Only later to go -- crap, that might not have been smart.

Actually my little cabin is fine, I've built houses and condos in a past life and while I wasn't a master framer by any stretch of the imagination I know what I can get away with -- but that's no excuse.

Then I read through posts like Dug's here and I can't help but say 'EXCELLENT!'  The precision in the construction is superb from what I can see.

I wish I'd taken a little more time selecting lumber for my project, and making sure everything was perfect but sadly I've found myself rushing to avoid the inevitable winter weather (a little more north then you *snicker*).

Great stuff!  Keep posting pictures and filling us in.  I can see your family will have a great home soon!
OlJarhead
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: glenn kangiser on December 07, 2009, 10:44:23 AM
Nice eggs.  Looks like some Araucana in there?

Nice work on the holes too.  I was thinking post hole auger and tractor but then I'm lazy.  I'm impressed. :)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: mldrenen on December 07, 2009, 10:48:29 AM


Then I read through posts like Dug's here and I can't help but say 'EXCELLENT!'  The precision in the construction is superb from what I can see.




That about sums up my reaction to posts like Dug's.  It makes my efforts seem scattered, half-assed, and "willy-nilly". 

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: mldrenen on December 07, 2009, 10:54:56 AM
I dug 8 holes by hand a couple of weeks ago.  My soil is full of roots and rocks.  The holes that I thought I could dig in a single afternoon, by my lonesome, took a full weekend and another able body.  I can certainly appreciate the amount of work that went into just getting those piers poured.

As for your idea about using anchor bolts for future skirting and bracing, brilliant.  I think I'll have to steal it and claim it as my own. 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 07, 2009, 11:11:10 AM
Phase llll- lumber!!!

I think most everyone here agrees that when the concrete work is done, it is time for a bit of celebration. Seemed like a pretty major milestone to me  and I was sure glad to be done with it and on to the sweet smell of wood!

Also want to thank everyone for the great tips I have received so far and I'll start with this one I got from Mt Don. Seems too obvious now, but I'm not sure if I would have thought of building the beams on the piers. If you are working alone, without a forklift- tractor-etc. as I am it is pretty much the only way. Those beams are heavy and besides, my piers were all level so it was the flattest 30 ft. surface I had to work with. The only downside is it makes it difficult to glue, because the finished beam fits rather tightly in the bracket. I was going to glue, and I could have but decided against because I was more comfortable getting the boards cut and perfectly lined and squared up first. I then clamped it all real good to pull in any of the cupping on the lumber, then used heavy duty 3 1/2 in. deck screws on both sides. Later on I punched a bunch of nails in- they don't seem to be going anywhere. After they were built I used a bottle jack to raise them a little and place a piece of asphalt shingle under the beam where it contacts the bracket.

After I laid the first one down and discovered ( as shown earlier) that it could have hardly been any more perfect I had to do a little happy dance!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fstraight.jpg&hash=f575c2694d088e4f5c0f44e20aa78f07)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fbeam.jpg&hash=1c6ba739460477aabacfb62280dab3a9)

Thankfully, the other two turned out the same, though I had to shim 2 of the piers with 1 extra shingle due to the concrete slumping a little. Go water level!

here are the finished beams. I decided to put lumber between the beams on the ends instead of on the outside because they (the beams) had a little twist to them and I was able to square them up better this way, also depending a little less on nails to hold them this way. (hint; pick some of your straightest lumber for the beams)

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My next challenge would lie in trying to get the joist on all square. This was made a little more difficult, perhaps more so than necessary, by 2 things. One, the joists will overhang the beams by 6 in. on both sides. I did this so I could later run skirting on the piers and have it line up with the walls. In retrospect this was probably dumb because I am now planning a full deck in front (lengthwise) so you won't even be able to see it, and also because I read on a post here that running the sheathing to the bottom of the beam adds a considerable amount of strength. oh well, I refer to one of my earlier posts-
Quote
sometimes the most valuable lesson is knowing what not to do  , in which case you may learn quite a bit from me
. The other difficulty was that the beams were not perfectly parallel, not far off- maybe 1/2 in. or so but enough that I couldn't get an accurate corner to corner measurement. I had sort of planned for this, knowing I could adjust the joists to compensate, but it made me think a bit on just how to do it right and this is what I came up with.

I basically built 2 boxes, using the first two joists on either end. I set the outside 2 equidistant from the beam on either side, then ran a string on both of the outside lengths in order to position the second joist in, then installed blocking- especially at the ends to keep them square. I could then fiddle with them back and forth until I got a perfect diagonal
measurement. Finally I nailed them to the brackets and could then easily place the rest of the joists.

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I'm not trying to brag, but if it is off of square we are talking in the range of 1/64 in. Excessive maybe, but it made me happy.

I also decided to add blocking at the ends due to the tendency of the joists twisting, and not wanting to rely on the rim joist nails to do the job. I added a rim joist as well.
 
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Next up is the subfloor. This is supposed to be the easy part but I somehow managed to make that a little more difficult also (do we sense a theme here?).
First off- if you haven't used tongue and groove plywood subfloor before, and I had not, then be prepared that a 4 by 8 sheet does measure 4 by 8, however they include the tongue in this measurement. Meaning that when you lay it out you will get 47 1/2 in. coverage. Not so good if you are planning to span 20 ft. with 5 sheets. Luckily I had ordered 1 extra sheet, so I could piece in the end, but had I not it would have been a 200 mile trip to the HD and back. Also, even starting perfectly square it is pretty easy to get a little off track. I snapped lines across the necessary joists but not lengthways. Had I to do it again I definitely would have snapped lines lengthways- 1/4 to 1/2 in outside where the 8 ft. length runs, to make sure I was going right. Would have only taken 10 minutes.

This is where I had to make a pretty major correction

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not horrible I know, but I will put a little extra blocking under where the tongue is not in the groove very far.

The finished deck!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0004.jpg&hash=e7ab8900ba531ef4ac761d36aedaf2a3)

Does this qualify as dancing? My younger kid on his rip-stick. A 2 wheeled version of a skateboard.



(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0011.jpg&hash=1cc0b5a09ca33fda4bcdaa2174b24c5e)

Well that's pretty much where we are at now, so progress updates will be coming a bit slower. I will be counting on you all for advice, and appreciate any suggestions.


 



 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: mldrenen on December 07, 2009, 11:23:33 AM
What is the winter like in your area?  Can you build through the winter months, or will this be put on hold until spring?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 07, 2009, 11:44:07 AM
Thanks for all the kind remarks. Really, it is a disease I inherited from my Dad- perfectus complex B I believe its called. I stopped searching for a cure long ago and have learned to come to terms with it. Makes it hard to work with others sometimes so it is probably best that I am working alone.

Quote
Nice eggs.  Looks like some Araucana in there?

Nice work on the holes too.  I was thinking post hole auger and tractor but then I'm lazy.  I'm impressed.

You got it, and some buffs too.

Quote
What is the winter like in your area?  Can you build through the winter months, or will this be put on hold until spring?

We are @ 6000 ft., so night time can be quite brisk- down to 5 degrees or so sometimes and commonly in the lower to mid teens. Daytimes usually warm up considerably though, 40 degree temperature swings are not uncommon. I plan on busting it through winter so it will be buttoned up well before the summer monsoons. I will need some considerable luck to avoid any major winter storms, speaking of which there is one moving in now. I feel like the race is on!

I could use some advice on windows. Mind boggling choices makes my head hurt. Aluminum or vinyl? They sell Jen-Weld at HD and will make the vinyl ones in any size. This would make framing the walls easy. Of course there is the budget, so we are trying to keep it at around $200 a window or even less if possible. Any suggestions? Not knowing what we are going with yet is preventing me from starting wall framing.




Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: gandalfthegrey on December 07, 2009, 11:57:06 AM
I reckin that the skateboarder is a reasonable choice for a dancer!   d*
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: OlJarhead on December 07, 2009, 12:04:01 PM
Thanks for all the kind remarks. Really, it is a disease I inherited from my Dad- perfectus complex B I believe its called. I stopped searching for a cure long ago and have learned to come to terms with it. Makes it hard to work with others sometimes so it is probably best that I am working alone.

Quote
Nice eggs.  Looks like some Araucana in there?

Nice work on the holes too.  I was thinking post hole auger and tractor but then I'm lazy.  I'm impressed.

You got it, and some buffs too.

Quote
What is the winter like in your area?  Can you build through the winter months, or will this be put on hold until spring?

We are @ 6000 ft., so night time can be quite brisk- down to 5 degrees or so sometimes and commonly in the lower to mid teens. Daytimes usually warm up considerably though, 40 degree temperature swings are not uncommon. I plan on busting it through winter so it will be buttoned up well before the summer monsoons. I will need some considerable luck to avoid any major winter storms, speaking of which there is one moving in now. I feel like the race is on!

I could use some advice on windows. Mind boggling choices makes my head hurt. Aluminum or vinyl? They sell Jen-Weld at HD and will make the vinyl ones in any size. This would make framing the walls easy. Of course there is the budget, so we are trying to keep it at around $200 a window or even less if possible. Any suggestions? Not knowing what we are going with yet is preventing me from starting wall framing.






Vinyl Low-E - but one thing to check is the type of Low-E in your area.  In the north it is to allow heat in, in the south I hear it's to keep it out.  Something to research :)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on December 07, 2009, 04:26:50 PM
..... and also because I read on a post here that running the sheathing to the bottom of the beam adds a considerable amount of strength.

Running the sheathing over the rim joist will accomplish virtually the same extra rigidity.  Not to worry about the beam.....
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on December 07, 2009, 04:58:10 PM
Low-e glazing is the way to go. Low-e with argon is better. If you choose aluminum make sure the manufacturer has a thermal break in the frame. Windows that have low U-factor and low SHGC invariably ewill have thermal breaks.

There are two main values used in obtaining good Low-e ratings. One is the U-factor (the insulation amount, the lower the number the better) and the other is SHGC (solar heat gain coefficient). The lower the U-factor the better the insulation qualities. In a cold climate you want the lowest U-factor you can find/afford. In a hot climate you want the lowest SHGC you can buy, that allows less heat to enter from outside. In a temperate (mixed) climate you want the best of both U-factor and SHGC.



Here's technical article.
http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.anl.gov/eehem/00/000911.html (http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.anl.gov/eehem/00/000911.html)

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: poppy on December 07, 2009, 06:15:31 PM
Great build story so far.  [cool]

Of
Quote
course there is the budget, so we are trying to keep it at around $200 a window or even less if possible. Any suggestions?
try craigslist.  I got lowE vinyl for $25 a window.  8)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: WoodSprite on December 07, 2009, 06:22:16 PM
Great build story so far.  [cool]

Of
Quote
course there is the budget, so we are trying to keep it at around $200 a window or even less if possible. Any suggestions?
try craigslist.  I got lowE vinyl for $25 a window.  8)

What he said.  We've got so many great doors and windows tarped and stored - all from Craigslist - that I had to swear off Craigslist for fear we wouldn't have enough wall space for our books.  I wouldn't even look at anything over $100. 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: speedfunk on December 07, 2009, 06:25:34 PM
Dug  , thanks for sharing the great pics and story.

 I know the feeling as I'm sure others do of trying to be perfect.  I've also noticed that people that build for a living tend to understand what is a a safe margin of error, or "Fudge factor" .  1/8 " off is no big deal or whatever.  My builder friend that has helped a few times mentions stories of pro's building foundations 4"'s out of square etc.  He is usually impressed with our accuracy ( not so much our speed lol).  People building for a living cant spend all day getting everything perfect .  git it done!

GL with the homestead...we will be following along.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: speedfunk on December 07, 2009, 06:28:22 PM
We've done good at local auctions and craigslist as well
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 08, 2009, 07:20:32 AM
Quote
I've also noticed that people that build for a living tend to understand what is a a safe margin of error, or "Fudge factor" .  1/8 " off is no big deal or whatever.  My builder friend that has helped a few times mentions stories of pro's building foundations 4"'s out of square etc.  He is usually impressed with our accuracy ( not so much our speed lol).  People building for a living cant spend all day getting everything perfect .  git it done!

Very true. I was talking to an old friend the other day and proudly explained to him how I had got everything lined up all perfect and square, to which he replied- "you wasted your time, anything within an inch (diagonal measurements) would have been fine". Not trying to belittle my work, he stated this as a simple point of fact. He does this sort of thing for a living and I can understand that if you built all the time it would be no big deal to make up for small indescrepencies in ways that no one would ever notice. I do not build for a living and just figured getting everything tight would make things less complicated down the line. Besides, though he may have been technically right about wasting time the satisfaction I gained with just 1 extra day (O.K. maybe two) was worth it, for me.

He enjoys giving me a hard time- says he can't believe I haven't got it dried in yet!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 08, 2009, 07:28:58 AM
I am also a fan of craigslist. When we lived in the city good deals popped up all the time, lots of folks with $$$ remodeling all the time. Unfortunately here in the sticks the treasure hunting is not so good. I will keep trying though.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 08, 2009, 07:32:35 AM
Thanks Mt. Don for the link- lots of great info!

How's the weather there? We are getting hammered with rain/ sleet/ snow, and 40 mph winds!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on December 08, 2009, 09:01:29 AM
Here at home (Rio Rancho) it's 32 and winds up to 40 mph. Up at the cabin it's only 18 and with similar winds.

It rained here last night and some snow up in the mtns. We let there yesterday AM when it started snowing. Still cloudy up there, going by the small amount of sunshine falling on the meter so far, Or it's covered in snow.  ???
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: considerations on December 08, 2009, 04:22:09 PM
"to which he replied- "you wasted your time, anything within an inch (diagonal measurements) would have been fine"."

Don't listen to this guy
I'll tell you why
Start a little out of square
and it gets lots worse when you get "up there"
Experienced builders know what to do when an "oops" multiplies itself further on
Us pilgrims get stuck and wonder how it all could have got so wrong
Then we hire some ape just like him
to tear it all down and stick it back together again.

He's just bolstering his job security.  Its hard enough for an amateur to get each little step right, its really hard to compensate for an out of square floor when you are trying to put walls together at the corners or siding on or or or......

Your bragging rights are intact.  [cool]
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: WoodSprite on December 09, 2009, 11:43:37 AM
Besides, though he may have been technically right about wasting time the satisfaction I gained with just 1 extra day (O.K. maybe two) was worth it, for me.

...and just think how impressed we all are with your foundation!  Never seen anything like it...certainly not on OUR land.  And (today) the most impressive thing of all is no backfilling.  Color me green.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 10, 2009, 01:00:42 PM
So I've been I have been trying hard to get this floor plan nailed down before I start doing some real nailing on the wall framing (I know, I should have had this done already). It has been a real struggle for me I can tell you.

This is my latest version-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Ffloorplan.jpg&hash=e871c55671d886fe4c1caf32204ab4bd)

Some of my design goals were-

large kitchen
defined entryway, an area to kick off your boots
take advantage of the best views to the south and east
defined areas for the different rooms and a good overall flow
decent storage

I failed on the last one, compromises were made. Also, the living/ dining area with diagonal lines is raised 15 inches higher than the rest of the bottom floor, also I plan on laying the wood floor this way here. I borrowed this idea from the Building with Awareness site I mentioned earlier in this thread. A good way (I think) to lend definition to rooms in small homes. The dotted lines over the kitchen area represent beam supporting loft joists, and the end of the loft. Loft will be about 13.5 ft. by 20.

I like, but it is not perfect. As large as the kitchen is I am having a hard time coming up with a good pantry area.

I would appreciate it, if anyone is so inclined to chime in with any suggestions that may improve the layout, keeping in mind what I am after. Or, if you think I should just scrap the whole thing and start over- I am all ears.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 10, 2009, 01:04:12 PM
Your bragging rights are intact. 

Thanks considerations- I noticed on your thread you had a struggle as well, but prevailed in the end. It's not as easy as it looks huh?

Great job on your place- I am jealous!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: considerations on December 10, 2009, 01:27:51 PM
Yeah like 3 dimensional chess.   This forum saved my bacon more than once.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Pine Cone on December 10, 2009, 09:46:13 PM
Nice project!

For your pantry dilemma, you might consider something like this system replacing some of the counter area closest to the door.  Not cheap, but it looks like a great option for lots of accessible storage in a small space.
You could also modify your under-stair storage slightly to have a deeper storage space on the entry hall side and shallow pantry storage shelves (maybe just 9-12 inches) on the water heater side. 

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=48709&cat=3,43722,43723&ap=1 (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=48709&cat=3,43722,43723&ap=1)

One question for you and some of the other builder's here.  Are you sure you only want one door?  I've lived in two buildings with only one door, and while it does work, for safety and aesthetics I like having two.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: rwanders on December 10, 2009, 11:13:46 PM
I've found pocket doors often work well, especially to save space in smaller homes-----have you considered one for your bathroom door?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: poppy on December 11, 2009, 07:15:36 AM
I tend to agree with Pine Cone on the pantry idea, assuming the stairway is about 3' wide.  Another alternative is to place the pantry at the high end of the stairway with a door or doors directly off the kitchen.

I guess I don't understand the desire to have a large kitchen in that configuration, unless it's a throwback to the old style country kitchen with a table in the center of the room, or having space for a wood stove.

Actually for a small home, that is a huge kitchen.  My sister has a kitchen like that and it's not a very efficient work space. It seems to be better suited for a dance floor.  ???

There are so many good kitchen layouts, that it is very unusual to see a big square room.

What about laundry facilities?  Upstairs?  A different layout in the kitchen area would allow for a laundry room.  I don't mean to be so critical, but you asked...  ;)

I also don't completely understand the raised living room.  Don't you now have a flat deck?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: phalynx on December 11, 2009, 07:21:35 AM
Dug, you might look into an outdoor on demand water heater and use that space you have as a closet.  I installed one on my place and it works fantastic.  They used to say they couldn't heat the water enough to get it hot and I can tell you in the dead of "winter" in Austin, we have the unit set at 120 and we can take 2 showers at the same time.  140 is just too hot.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: John Raabe on December 11, 2009, 07:21:52 AM
Is there a second door to the outside? Perhaps at the bottom of the stair on the back wall? Always a good safety feature.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 11, 2009, 08:28:39 AM
Thanks for the replies and great suggestions

Pine Cone: love the compact pantry- kind of expensive but maybe I can build something similar. I had thought of splitting up the stairway closet as you suggested but for some reason thought it wouldn't work. I'll have to re-think it.

rwanders: good idea on the pocket door- it might help in designing the bathroom a bit smaller, though I must admit that of all the rooms this was my favorite layout.

poppy: I agree that the kitchen is a bit too big, and maybe the living/ dining area too small but it is complicated, for me anyway. I really have my heart set on having the kitchen in the SE corner of the house and that is also the best views. I want nice windows, but windows seem not so conducive to efficient kitchen design. I found it difficult to find good homes for the stove and fridge. Also I am trying to incorporate the center (loft supporting beam) as a design element, not really wanting to hide it. There will be an open beam and deck supporting the loft.
In the first attempt I drew up the loft was only 12 ft wide instead of 13.5. Same exact design but a foot and a half more room in living/ dining area, and the same amount less in kitchen, bath, etc. In many ways I liked it better but it really squeezed the bathroom and area for WH. I am trying to avoid a bathroom door that is directly visible from the kitchen. I don't know why, it just bothers me.
We have a separate laundry building. I was going to try and fit a washer in but it decided against
As to the raised floor, I don't know why but I just kind of like it. Adds interest and creates a cozy atmosphere, I think anyway. Check out the link I posted earlier on this thread and see what you think.
Do not worry about offending me. I really appreciate the input, that's why I asked!

Phalynx: I think you are right about the idea of on demand hot water heater. That would allow me to use that space for a great storage area. Thanks!

John Raabe: I also agree about having another door. I was trying to fit one in on the east wall in the kitchen, but gave up on the idea because of space considerations. I like your suggestion and will take it to heart. My only concern is I was trying to eliminate openings on the north side. Any ideas for a super insulated door?

Well, I guess its back to the drawing board. Speaking of which, I really wish I had a drafting table. Anyone know of a really easy to use online design program?


Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: poppy on December 11, 2009, 09:14:49 AM
I use GoogleSketchUp.  It's pretty easy to use and it's free.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: considerations on December 11, 2009, 10:14:45 AM
I may have gotten a little carried away, but here you go.....food for thought anyway.  I moved the woodstove because it looked like it was going to pop out of the roof right where a ridge beam would go....then just went a little crazy from there.  I like the concept of your living space, but like some of the others couldn't abide only one door.  I have four in my 14 x 24 one is upstairs as a fire escape.  Anyway.....

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi282.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk265%2Fconsiderations%2FCarriedAway.jpg&hash=cffe77592f87f8c0c7b403fd08a07ea9)


Having an outside door in the bathroom makes it into a mudroom, specially if there is a w/d in there.  So you can get cleaned up without tramping through the living space.....this planning stuff is really fun.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Sassy on December 11, 2009, 12:39:46 PM
I like your plan, considerations but I was thinking French doors in livingroom that could open out onto a deck... 
Title: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: OkieJohn2 on December 11, 2009, 01:47:38 PM
I really hate corner cabinets in kitchens, those lazy susan base cabinets are a pain, the one thing you really need always has fallen off in the back. One solution would be to add a pop-out where you show the range and the counter on each side of it. It wouldn't have to be a really deep pop out, something greater than 25 inches up to perhaps 30 inches. You could swap the range and sink and place skinny windows on the ends(the East and West sides) and have a double window over the sink. 
I don't really like the bathroom door there, so here I go again increasing the foot print.  How about a hallway going from where the shower is to where the toilet is. This would lead to perhaps a shed roofed laundry/mud room/utility room with the secondary egress(love that word).  You could have the pocket door on the right hand wall going to the bathroom.  then you could put the toilet where the w/d is and the shower either where the lavatory is or where the hot water closet is.
Now for the big finish, On the left side of the hallway you could have a series of pull outs, perhaps on wheels or using those heavy duty drawer glides. the could be several steps wide or maybe a single sep wide.  Near the landing you could have a two or three step pull out box for big stuff you don't use often, like your pressure canner and the big roasting pan you use twice a year. You might still have room for a closet facing the living area backed with open shelves on the hallway side which would be easily accesible from the kitchen.
So by now you are saying "why don't ya draw me a stinkin' picture, for goodness sakes" and I have to admit I will try this weekend, I just got Chief Architect 9 suite and need to practice.....a lot.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: considerations on December 11, 2009, 04:27:17 PM
"I really hate corner cabinets in kitchens, those lazy susan base cabinets are a pain, the one thing you really need always has fallen off in the back."

You don't have to have a corner cabinet, just put the corner cabinet's door on the bar stool side and use it for plates, placemats, etc. That way your "partner" can set the table without invading the kitchen space. 

"I don't really like the bathroom door there."


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi282.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk265%2Fconsiderations%2FCarriedAway02.jpg&hash=a4a7f5d9384c927ef591a73b5daf81cc)

Too much time on my hands I guess.   ;D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 11, 2009, 04:41:36 PM
Quote
I moved the woodstove because it looked like it was going to pop out of the roof right where a ridge beam would go....then just went a little crazy from there.

considertions; Interesting ideas- love the feedback! After I started drawing the floor plan up I realized the stove was right at the ridge. I was either going to move it or put a couple of 45 degree elbows in the pipe to move it over. I will also have egress in the loft. Mud room is a good idea. Will mull it over some more.

Quote
...this planning stuff is really fun.

Maybe for some, torture for me. I am good with working, but not so much for planning.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 11, 2009, 04:45:04 PM
Quote
I like your plan, considerations but I was thinking French doors in livingroom that could open out onto a deck...

I kind of like that idea too, but the deck would be on the south side. Here in the Southwest, a deck or too much glass on the west side is unbearable!

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 11, 2009, 04:55:55 PM
Thanks OkieJohn for your thoughts as well- would really like to see that sketch up. I have attempted a couple of those programs and failed miserably.
One of the ideas you had I had done similar in my drawing on page 2. Considerations magically moved some of my stuff around. (How in the heck did you do that by the way???)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: considerations on December 11, 2009, 05:44:11 PM
"How in the heck did you do that by the way???"

Photoshop - I use it for making drawing, posters, cards, brochures, displays, planning quilts and fixing my photos.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: considerations on December 11, 2009, 06:07:30 PM
I like your Airstream type trailers with the aircraft landing decks on top.   Would make a great guest house.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Sassy on December 11, 2009, 07:36:32 PM
Quote
I like your plan, considerations but I was thinking French doors in livingroom that could open out onto a deck...

I kind of like that idea too, but the deck would be on the south side. Here in the Southwest, a deck or too much glass on the west side is unbearable!

See, then that would give you an excuse for maybe a deck with shed roof or something to keep the house cooler & a nice area to go out in the evenings or mornings or whenever   ;D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: lobster on December 12, 2009, 05:52:19 AM
I really hate corner cabinets in kitchens, those lazy susan base cabinets are a pain...

two suggestions.
1) put the electric range close to a corner - say 5 inches away, so the oven door can open past the drawer pulls etc on the opposite side. install your pressure tank or low boy hot water heater in that corner under the counter top. these items may then be easily accessed by sliding out the electric range. this also saves the cost of a corner cabinet. the counter top is held up in that area by cleats on the back & side walls, and ugly plywood (with a large access hole cut in it) along the edge next to the electric range. the front of the "corner cabinet" - the only part visible - can be made from two pieces of good-looking wood nailed together to make a 5" x 5" corner.

2) use the space for a corner sink. the sink & trap pipes take up most of the room anyway. the remainder is efficiently used by a simple shelf for cleaning supplies, etc.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: HomeschoolMom on December 12, 2009, 07:29:54 AM
I did see a good use for a corner cabinet the other day. http://www.amazon.com/Rotary-Recycling-Center-Hardware-White/dp/B0006NIFNK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=miscellaneous&qid=1260635224&sr=8-3
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on February 05, 2010, 07:07:06 AM
I have not updated for awhile so I thought I'd post some of our progress, such as it is. We have had a lot of bad weather and I've spent ton's of time stringing tarps (in vain- a tarp is no match for 40 mph winds) and cleaning snow/ slush/ rain off the deck. My plywood subfloor is suffering.  It's tough being a weekend warrior.

Raising the first wall was a milestone for sure. One thing nice about living in a small community- a few phone calls and 20 minutes later we had plenty of help.

Notice the one with the bum back (me) is the only one using proper lifting technique.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0008.jpg&hash=5d8df0763015e6b741e75c4d35374466)

A 30 ft. wall is a piece of cake with 4 helpers

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0012-1.jpg&hash=ade171a61a68c752025696b4b4c927fb)

Grandpa brought a potato gun he made for a little diversion. About 40 or 50 psi will shoot a potato over 300 ft! Works great with snowballs too.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0008-2.jpg&hash=fbdc23adfa284c3e7bf2054e5194c4d6)


I laid out the top and bottom plates using a 3/4 in. block at the end. I love learning little tricks like that!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0024-1.jpg&hash=bc5c7f7d38bae9ea0873e3d8f3853073)

framing a window header

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0007-1.jpg&hash=40cbd980f23f6308932ac51d4f535f3e)

the end of another long day- One more wall to go!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0042.jpg&hash=5880c8a807e4c443201ab44f978aa609)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0028.jpg&hash=a5acd3981394618294b45dc2f4a2ce1b)

My brother came to help for a few days. Here he is helping set the ridge board. If you have never crawled on top of 3 sections of scaffolding you will feel like you just joined the circus, unless you're a rock climber (or maybe you were in the circus). It gets easier after awhile

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Ridge board set. That was a lot of fun- not!

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The next day it rained non stop all day, the kind of rain that is only 3 or 4 degrees away from snow- miserable. I probably would have just stayed inside and drank coffee but my brother wouldn't have it.

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It didn't seem like we got a whole lot done in 2 days but as I said, the weather was horrible most of the time. Also, it seemed like 70 % of the time was spent just figuring and measuring. We used an on line calculator (blocklayer) for the rafters. the first pair were not quite right so we re-measured and found the wall width was about 1/4 in. wider than we inputted, mostly due to the osb swelling from all the rain. We re-calculated and cut 2 more, and they could not have fit more perfect. So perfect in fact that I did not bother to check the overhang until we had several pairs placed. I noticed it looked like more than the 18 inches I was after and found it measured about 25 inches! Oh well, I'll have to snap a line and re-cut them later, which is what I was going to do in the first place, but then decided to avoid having to make all the cuts in the air. I'll have to go back and see how I screwed up the calculation.

There is no overhang on the first 18 ft. in the front of the building because I am going to lay rafters for the front porch right on the top plate.

I got a few more rafters placed by myself yesterday, the weather being much nicer.

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And that is where it stands at present. I got a few hours so I'm going out to cut the rest of the rafters. Still trying to decide weather to sheath it or use purlins. I have this habit of putting off major design decisions until the last minute.

I have a bunch of simpson brackets (H 1) that I was going to use to tie the rafters to the walls. I want to put them on the inside wall but am unsure how how, or if that would affect laying the drywall. They are only about 1/16 in. thick. I've done very little sheet rock work and it's been many years since that. Anyone know anything about that?



 









Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 05, 2010, 07:35:01 AM
Dug working in the winter does have it's challenges.  But it appears that you are making good progress though.  

They say that hindsight is 20/20 but Advantex subfloor would have been a good choice for someone who does not have the time to donate full speed to get the roof on.

On the scaffolding it is a little hairy for the first hour or so and then you get use to it.  My mom would cringe with me climbing the equivlent of yours but after a while she said you look just like a squirrel going up there. You just acclimate yourself after a while.

Recutting the rafter tails shouldn't pose any great threat. You have the scaffolding so I would urge you to use it rather than trying to battle a ladder and saw together.  I assume you will want to tie the overhang into the porch so I would probably wait until you get that portion done to know exactly where they will fall to tie them in.

If you think it will some time before you are able to get it completely dried in I would suggest that you invest in some Titaninum Felt.  When installed correctly (button nails and required overlap) it will be good for at least a year in my experience. Yes it is a little costly but considering the expense that you have laid out so far now and in the future it would be money well spent.

The clips usually do not pose any problems with the drywall. More rigid material like T&G is a little harder.  More problems with attaching the drywall (screws) at the location of the plates.  But if you mark the ceiling drywall at the location of the clips then make reference to those when working the walls.    
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Pine Cone on February 07, 2010, 07:03:37 PM
Looking good so far!

My advice on tarps and wind is to think like the Lillipution's trying to tie Gulliver down.  Lots and lot and lots and lots of ropes and try and minimize slack so the tarp can't gain speed and snap in the wind.  Tarps and wind have been my bane for most of my cabin project. 

I recommend using a rope at every grommet hole and then using the old boy scout tie-a-rope-around-a-small-rock technique between each pair of grommets.   

Good luck with your winter construction!  I'm really glad I back working on inside projects again...
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: poppy on February 08, 2010, 08:59:41 AM
Nice progress.  Keep asking the questions.  I don't have any answers, but the other folks here do, so I check in to get the answers.  8)

Love the potato gun.  It would be a hit with my grandkids.  [cool]
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on February 08, 2010, 09:29:22 AM
This, is a spud gun!!    ;D ;D

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Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on March 07, 2010, 07:30:09 AM
Here are the latest updates on our cabin build.

Seems like I'm just inching along, like the tortoise, but in my defense the weather has been dogging me big time. I can't locate any official records but I'd bet that February was one of the wettest ones in awhile, and so far March has not been a whole lot better. Raining again as I type.

After my brother left I managed to get the rest of the rafters up myself, it was not as bad as I thought it would be.
This will be our view looking East.

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Trimming the supports for the barge rafter. At first the heights made me pretty nervous, but after awhile you sort of forget that your that high up.
I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not.

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I notched the end rafters on the ground

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Framing the dormer. It took me awhile to figure that one out.

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My brother came here again for a few days to help me get some roof sheathing up. He is a real motivator and non stop worker. After 2 days I was feeling it.

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Looking at these photos, I realize I am always wearing the same clothes. I guess it cuts down on laundry time and usually it is only me who has to put up with myself.

here are a couple of shots from the interior, rafter ties are temporary and will be replaced with rough sawn 4 by 8's soon.

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This is the most recent photo. I figured out a way to get the OSB sheets up myself after my brother left, but it was not easy.

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These are the 4 by 8's I picked up for the rafter ties and loft beams. I had to drive over 300 miles (RT) to get them so I hope it will be worth it.
When I got there they told me they did not have any 20 footers, but they sold me 24 footers for the same price since I had called ahead. I'll have to think of a good home for the 4 foot leftovers.

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O.K., so this is my question for the day- How to attach the 4 by 8 rafter ties? Bolts with nuts I assume. What size? How many? What pattern?

I was kicking around the idea of using concrete anchor bolts, they are much less expensive than comparable bolts and I thought I could notch the beam to hold the J part of the bolt, in order to keep it from turning as I tighten it.

Sound feasible?







Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 07, 2010, 07:49:49 AM
Dug while others may aggree/disagree you have two options on the bolts.  Carriage or lag.  3/8-1/2".  I would choose the 3/8" lag for ease of installation and probably 4" in length.  Washered and inserted from the rafter side at least two per end.  There is nothing to prevent you from driving an additional 16d in there as well.  That is the method that I used.   Just remember that when it comes time to trim out the ceiling with your wall covering that you will probably want to use some scrap material to trim out around the 4X8" to attach your covering material.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Don_P on March 07, 2010, 03:31:28 PM
Who killed the smurf on your sawhorses  ;D? When one of us gets seriously blue from a chalkline incident "you've been smurfed".
For the tie connections we need to know the amount of thrust being resisted, then its a matter of making a connection that exceeds that force. Are the ties going to be down on the plate or raised and if so how much? How far apart are the ties spaced? What is the snow load for your area?


Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on March 07, 2010, 03:57:39 PM
Quote
For the tie connections we need to know the amount of thrust being resisted, then its a matter of making a connection that exceeds that force. Are the ties going to be down on the plate or raised and if so how much? How far apart are the ties spaced? What is the snow load for your area?

The ties will be at the plate.

4 foot spacing, though I am still trying to decide if I can get away with an 7 or 8 foot spacing where the entry and stairs are, to open it up a little.

I am not sure of the official snow load but it is not much. We got a lot this year and there was never more than 4 or 5 inches on the ground at one time, and that usually melted by noon.

Quote
Who killed the smurf on your sawhorses  ? When one of us gets seriously blue from a chalkline incident "you've been smurfed".

No gruesome smurf incident, I'm just a sloppy painter. ;)

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Don_P on March 07, 2010, 06:39:32 PM
The default would probably be 20 psf live load + 10 psf dead load X 10' horizontal span X 4' spacing=1200 lbs vertical load. Assuming half is supported on the wall and the pitch is 12/12 the horizontal thrust would be 600 lbs. If you are shooting .131's in the gun it would take 8 of them minimum in each end (many small fasteners in wood is actually better than fewer large ones). 2 bolts at 5/8" or 3 bolts at 1/2". 3/8" lags, I'd use 5, you'll need a minimum of 3" into the tie.

For bolts and lags stay at least 4 diameters from the rafter bottom edge and at least 7 diameters from the tie end. Stay at least 1.5 diamters from the tie top and bottom edges and try to keep everybody at least 4 diameters apart. It gets crowded fast but I think there's room for any of the options above.

Mixing fasteners; its fine to nail something up and then bolt it as long as either the bolts or nails are capable of resisting the full load by themselves. Fasteners of different types do not "help" one another. A bolt or lag pretty much takes load right now where a nail deforms a bit before taking full load. If you skimp on one type thinking the other will help, what happens is the bolts fail and then the nails fail.

The thrust is linear, at 8' tie spacing (you just left the codebook) the thrust is double and connections double. If you nail, I often have to clamp it tight to get things really drawn together, don't be afraid to pull the trigger extra and don't blow 'em outta sight   :).
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 08, 2010, 04:22:35 AM
Don I guess a picture is worth a thousand words.  I had read Dugs post but didn't open to view the photographs until later.  When I think of Collar ties my mind see them at the top 1/3 rather than at the bottom plate such as a wall tie.  Yes my attachment is a little lean but for the upper 1/3 it would probably be apprioate don't you think.  d*  In fact some builders have been known to just use 1X6 for this application as the pressure is not as great as the bottom section.  Sorry Dug for any sub-standard advice. 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on March 08, 2010, 04:38:05 AM
Redoverfarm- I don't consider any of the advice I have received on this forum sub standard, I have learned a great deal from everyone. It is difficult sometimes to convey in words the picture that is in your mind. I will be putting in collar ties on the upper third of the rafters also.

Don- You are an encyclopedia of valuable information. I thoroughly enjoy the technical information I have gleaned from you.

Thanks to everyone.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: archimedes on March 08, 2010, 05:41:22 AM
Really enjoying watching your project.  It looks like it's coming out great so far.

You didn't mention (or I missed it) do you have grid power?  It looks pretty remote so I wasn't sure.

be safe.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on March 08, 2010, 06:09:29 AM
Quote
You didn't mention (or I missed it) do you have grid power?  It looks pretty remote so I wasn't sure.

be safe.

Yes, we are hooked into the grid. The property was a good setup for us because it had power, septic ,well, but little else. Until I run the electric line my juice comes from a 100 ft. 12 gauge extension cord.

Like the majority of NM it is fairly remote. We have few neighbors, but the ones we have are great.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Don_P on March 08, 2010, 03:29:57 PM
John, you have the terminology right, Dug used the right term too. A collar tie is in the upper third and keeps uplift or inflation from pulling the rafters free at the ridge. A rafter tie is in the lower third, preferrably across the  "feet" of the rafter right at the birdsmouth/top plate. It keeps the rafters from pushing the top of the walls outward.

The collar tie in the upper third is not as highly stressed, from memory, a 1x4 across from rafter to rafter every 4' or straps over the top. The big failure that frequently happens in a high wind is a poorly brace upper gable blows in and the roof inflates. These are the storm films when you see the roof unzip down the middle at the peak, no collar ties. I've seen several barns that lost a hayloft door which wasn't fixed. A few years of regular storms pumping into the mow starts popping the roof metal, then a wind strips it off.

The rafter tie to rafter connection is the highest stress connection in the roof, when you see a swayback roof it is usually that connection letting go.

Thanks Dug, I'm glad you all don't mind me using you to keep sharp, questions make me research.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on April 02, 2010, 04:46:41 PM
So I'm just checking in to post my latest progress updates. Slow, as usual. but steadily moving.

I am developing a newfound respect for folks who build their own places. Not that I didn't have respect before, but after getting as far as I have I can really appreciate the amount of work that goes into it. If I don't develop a hernia, or tear a ligament, or worse I may find myself in the best shape of my life by the time I am done.


Finishing some framing and started with the asphalt paper. Putting that paper on is a little less fun than I figured it would be.

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Still some details to deal with on this gable end, I will finish up the sheathing in the morning.

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Almost finished with the overhang details and barge rafters. The wind has been fearsome at times and it was a white knuckle event when I was working on this yesterday. A shot of whiskey at the end of the day calmed me down.

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Just for fun-

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So in case you are wondering why I have not closed off the rest of the roof, it is because we made a change in plans and decided to set the front porch rafters on top of the wall plate  so we could keep the (porch) roof as high as possible. Hopefully I will start the porch footings (more digging!!) in about a week.

Pray for sunshine.


Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: devildog on April 02, 2010, 05:22:32 PM
Looks real good dug. I dont think Ive seen tar paper that tight since mountain dons place.Keep up the good work.
Darrell
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on April 02, 2010, 05:43:24 PM
you house looks great, how tall are your piers, and how did you build your rebar cages?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on April 02, 2010, 05:45:32 PM
Yeah, dug, nice paper job.   :D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on April 02, 2010, 05:59:11 PM
Thanks for the words of encouragement, That paper is tough! I had to devise a couple of methods to rig up the paper roll while I tacked it down. Add a little wind and let the fun begin!

Quote
ou house looks great, how tall are your piers, and how did you build your rebar cages?

The shortest is 18 in., and the tallest is about 30 in. You can see the cages I built on page 1 or 2 of this thread.

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on April 02, 2010, 06:38:12 PM
Thank You Dug, I think i read that you went 24" deep on these piers?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on April 02, 2010, 07:14:53 PM
Quote
I think i read that you went 24" deep on these piers?

Yes, 24 in. with a 24 in. by 12 in. footer.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Pine Cone on April 02, 2010, 08:22:42 PM
Quote
I am developing a newfound respect for folks who build their own places. Not that I didn't have respect before, but after getting as far as I have I can really appreciate the amount of work that goes into it. If I don't develop a hernia, or tear a ligament, or worse I may find myself in the best shape of my life by the time I am done.

You can say that again!  I have found that even with what I thought were pessimistic time and effort estimates that I was still optimistic about how easy each part of the building process would be. 

The compensating benefit is that someday when it is all finished you can stand back and say with pride that "I built it" 

I'm pretty sure that no one but another builder will ever appreciate what that really means.

Your paper job looks great.   
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on April 03, 2010, 04:07:40 AM
Quote
I have found that even with what I thought were pessimistic time and effort estimates that I was still optimistic about how easy each part of the building process would be.

Well that about perfectly describes what happens to me. Even though from past experience I know a job will take me at least four times longer than my worst estimate, my brain convinces me otherwise every time. Maybe it (stupid brain!) knows I wouldn't even start if I really knew how hard it would be.

Just about the time I finish one phase of building and start to get pretty good at it I have to move on to something else I know nothing about!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 03, 2010, 04:24:25 AM
Dug but you have to admit it is a great experience.  I get disgusted at the intial stages but once I get into each phase it just seems to intrigue me more to finish what I have started and before long it's done. You don't start walking before you learn to crawl.  I am amazed by others on the length of time to completion as compared to mine.  d*   Just wondering if I am a slow learner or just a little more complicated.   ???

BTW looks like you are doing a great job.

 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on April 03, 2010, 05:14:14 AM
Quote
I am amazed by others on the length of time to completion as compared to mine.     Just wondering if I am a slow learner or just a little more complicated.   

Same here! I think it's a little of both for me. I may complain at times, but really building is about my favorite past time. The combination of thought process, physical activity, and end result of tangible evidence from all your sweat are hard to beat.


One thing I want to mention, especially to people considering building in the future- I see a lot of folks posting reasons not to build a 12/12 roof pitch, and yes there are negatives.
On the positive side though, it makes a lot of calculations and cuts much easier. Rafter cuts, plumb cuts, sheathing, blocking, etc., etc, etc, all 45 degree cuts! 1 in. over = 1 in. up.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on April 03, 2010, 03:45:22 PM
One question-

I have learned that 2 layers of felt is a real good idea if you are going to stucco, which I am. I won't be able to do the stucco for awhile, so I was wondering if the windows could be installed first, then the second layer of asphalt put on just prior to the stucco job.

Or do I need to fold the second layer into the door and window frames also?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on April 03, 2010, 04:13:51 PM
What is your game plan for flashing the windows and doors?

The idea behind two layers of felt when doing a stucco wall finish is to provide the drainage layer between the two felts. The outermost layer will stick to the stucco, more or less.

So it seems that installing the windows/doors now and then applying the flashing once the windows/doors are in place is good. The outer layer of felt then just acts to form the drainage plane.  ???  

It would be nice to hear from someone else on this though. PEG? Don_P?  How are you on stucco?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on April 03, 2010, 04:51:10 PM
Quote
What is your game plan for flashing the windows and doors?

Well I guess I'm not exactly sure. If it works out like a lot of them I've had I'll probably end up deep in my own territory, 4th and 10. :-\

I have a couple of rolls of adhesive window flashing tape, 6 in. wide I think, and I've read instructions on how it is installed. Doesn't seem too hard, though I am confident I will find a way to make it difficult.

If I put the second layer of felt over the flashing tape I probably wouldn't want to nail through it would I?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on April 03, 2010, 04:55:44 PM
Re the flashing and nailing.... lots of nails through my sticky roll butyl type flashing on the cabin... all the trim, ends of the siding....  :-\  No way around that as far as I can see.



Reference documents.... (interesting read; building science corp believes stucco over 'house wraps' is a very bad idea. Felt is their recommended method.

http://www.fortifiber.com/pdf/News_Info/Building%20Science%20Makes%20a%20Case%20for%20Two%20Layers.pdf

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-029-stucco-woes-the-perfect-storm/?searchterm=stucco

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0105-brick-stucco-housewrap-and-building-paper/view?searchterm=stucco


The one thing I couldn't find is where the window flashings are placed when there are two layers of felt.  

Too bad I can't see into my house walls. I know there are two layers of felt under the stucco and wire, but I have no idea how the flashing was done. I wasn't here at that point.

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on April 03, 2010, 05:09:42 PM
Just off the cuff Don with the "Grace" product I would think that it could be applied at either or both but definitely one.  If the interior layer any moisture would be channeled in between the layers.  Maybe someone else would have a definite answer but I would opt for the 1st layer if it was going to be sometime between the window install and the second layer. Just a thought.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on April 04, 2010, 06:58:30 AM
It seems the first layer would be where you 'waterproof' the house envelope.  The top layer is there for the stucco drainage plane.  It would seem unnecessary to flash the second layer.  ???

dug, watch the window/door top flashing. The paper laps over top of the window fin. Easy to forget that. I forgot on one but the 2 ft+ eve overhang that should be no big deal.   d*

As the man says, 'think like water'
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on April 23, 2010, 10:27:43 AM
More holes and rebar. I also started to add the skirting nailers and some bracing-


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I'm not sure about the engineering (or lack there of) of the bracing. I have seen many posts lately as to the importance of bracing piers so I hope this will help. It has to be better than nothing.


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My evil arch nemesis(s) have returned to haunt me-


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Photos of completed porch coming soon, hopefully!


Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Jeff922 on April 23, 2010, 11:17:58 AM
Very cool project!  I really like how you braced those piers. "When in doubt, make it stout" as they say. :D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Yonderosa on April 23, 2010, 04:03:58 PM
Interesting project.  Well executed too.  Thanks for sharing it with us.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on May 13, 2010, 06:39:33 AM
Thought I'd get this dang porch done before I posted but we took some time off to go camping and do a little fishing and as usual, it has taken me four times longer than I figured it would to get it done.

A couple of pics of our good fortune. These suckers were tough to entice, but we persevered!


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Piers complete. My mixer stripped a gear so I had to mix by hand.


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Finished beam.


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Installed joist support beams and started setting the posts.


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I started laying out the joists but ran out of 10 in. lumber. I'll have to make a run into town soon.


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And here is where I am at now-


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I can't work on it for a few days so I have some time to ponder over a few things and would like to glean some of your valued opinions about something that is troubling me.

I am mostly happy about how the porch is looking and think it adds a lot of appeal to the overall look of the house, however I am not sure if I like the amount of roof overhang on the front porch. It is 15 in. as compared to about 19.5 in. on the back of the house and gable ends. I thought 10 ft. lumber for the porch rafters would give me about 18 inches overhang but I guess I miscalculated a little. At first I was fine with it but the more I look at it the more I think it doesn't look quite right somehow. Four more inches, to me, seems like it would make a big difference but maybe when it was all done I would hardly notice.

I already have some 10 ft. lumber, though I still have to buy a bit more, and have several hours invested in cutting some of the rafters and notching a few of the bird mouths, including a tricky cut that mates up to the gable end barge rafter (which came out perfect!), but I do not want to regret this decision later.

 What would you do???

I spend too much time thinking and not enough time doing!




Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on May 13, 2010, 07:00:19 AM
Dug it is looking good.  All work and no play makes for a dull day.  In regards to the overhang I really don't think it will be that noticable after your trim boards and gutter is applied.  Many times during my build I have ran across several things that I wished I would have done but didn't.  Not that anything was wrong only a preference call.  I soon forget about the little things when something else takes it's place.  ;) .  I too have different size overhangs from the house(cabin) to the porch.  I think with the narrower front porch it may even be more to scale vs. the house demensions and overhang.  You could Always put up a 2X facia which would add a little more than the standard 3/4".  But if it were mine I would move on. 

Oh Yes the cement mixer.  Been there and done that pouring my footings.  I ended up handmixing to complete the second one.  After that experience I wasn't long finding another to use to finish up the footings for my porch piers.

Looks like the kids are enjoying that portion of the project.  Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on May 13, 2010, 07:07:13 AM
For many builders it wouldn't be of any concern that the porch overhang is different from the main house roof. However, it may also depend on how great of an obsessive compulsive disorder the builder has. Like John suggested, use a 2x for the fascia, that will stretch it out a bit. I'd likely go with the ways things are.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on June 07, 2010, 05:20:16 PM
Hey Dug,
Your place is coming together really well.
The bracing looks very strong!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Don_P on June 07, 2010, 06:09:07 PM
Ditto,
Like the man said "triangles rule!"  :)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Native_NM on June 07, 2010, 07:21:10 PM
Excellent work and certainly an inspiration. 

A few posts back somebody mentioned an instant hot water heater.  We installed a replacement unit in our home and had to have it removed because the PEX in our house was only 1/2" at the outlets.  The plumber who installed it (and then uninstalled it) basically knew it would be a problem but did it anyway.  Our manual stated a minimum line size of 1/2" with a recommended line size of 3/4".  The reality is they really need 3/4" lines all the way down the line to work properly.  If one reads the PEX resource literature, one of the stated advantages of a PEX manifold system is the ability to use smaller 1/2" line downstream from the manifold.  It is touted as a cost-saving feature of PEX.  If you go the tankless route (or think you might), I'd recommend installing 3/4" PEX or copper now.  Additionally, tankless heaters generally require more gas capacity (3/4" line also) than a traditional water heater.

Another thought in your local is a solar pre-heater.  I've seen one in use in Soccoro that is amazing, even in the winter.  Depending on how far south you are it might even work better.  I think there are some links here. 

Again, great work!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: John Raabe on June 07, 2010, 09:00:11 PM
Nice job on the bracing. That's the sturdiest post and beam foundation I've seen yet.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 09, 2010, 05:05:19 AM
Thanks for the kind words of encouragement everyone. I always feel like I should accomplish more before I post again but I'll put up a few photos of what I've got.

I've been pretty busy with various other things and now Jenny, who recently graduated, is taking a temp job in El Paso in order to (her words) "get the new grad stink off me". Looks like I'll be full time Mr. Mom for a few months!


I have spent considerable time painting things that I figured would be much more difficult to do once there were up. The eaves in particular would have been a real bear to do without spraying.

Painting porch rafters-

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This is how I finished under the eaves (not a very good picture)-

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I started installing the permanent rafter tie beams inside-

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I was going to set them right on the top plate but I decided to raise them a foot higher. I built blocks under them to make them easier to set, and to give me peace of mind that they would never fall on someone's head. Attached with five 3/8 in. bolts per side.

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Got the porch rafters up (still have to trim the ends), finished the dormer, nailed down the rest of the paper, and various other things-

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I was hoping to have the porch done but I need some more 16 ft. lumber which is is difficult, me being without a truck or trailer. Next time my friend with a trailer makes a run into town I'll have him pick some up for me.

I am trying to finalize my roof order and am a little confused about the roof venting. The company I am dealing with does not offer a specific vented ridge cap, but says I can omit the foam closures to accomplish this. Any opinions on this?

I hope this will work because they are the best deal around here. I wanted to go with a standing seam roof that a company near by sells but it would cost twice as much, and funds are dwindling. The metal I am getting will come to about $2400, delivered.

I am very apprehensive about the roof install. The front side won't be so bad, as I have the front porch as a base to start from, but the back- I have no idea! I am thinking ropes and a harness, however I've found that they are difficult to position so you can work and be secure at the same time. A cable running across the ridge that you could clip a rope to seems like it would work well, but might be tough to rig.

Ideas?? Any suggestions that would make this easier would be extremely helpful!

Thanks for looking!

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on June 09, 2010, 10:19:42 AM
Dug looks as if you are getting along fairly well.

In regards to the ridge vent caps you will need something there as well as the area where the roof meets the ridge vent.  Normally there is a foam seal that you can place (ontop of roof and under ridge) to keep vermits from occuping your ridge for a nesting place.  Personally I used screen over the vent area(one side of the roof to the other) and followed up with 1/4" rabbit wire.  The screen was for the small critter and the wire for the larger variety like squirrels and bats.  They do make a "cobra" type vent that will work on this application as well. What ever you decide to use don't forget the ends.  Without some protection they will enter there and travel the length of the ridge.

In regards to the roof metal and installation I used a "chicken  ladder" which would allow you to move it from one end to the other as you progress.  There will be the end sheet that you will either need to work off of a ground ladder or pad your ladder and sit it on the previous sheet you installed before reaching the last sheet.  The ridge is fairly easy in that you normally just straddle the ridge and secure it to the rib area (not flats).  Since you have one roof to work off of that is less steep (porch side) with the aid of two ladders you can reach over and attach the ridge on the steep side from the ladder set on the porch side.  While a helper (  ??? )is on the other ladder to kep it aligned and hold it.

If you do decide to attach a safety line you can fix you a couple of outriggers from the facia letting them extend upward ( on the same plane as your roof line) to clear the ridge and attach your safety line to those.  2X6" would work well attached to the facia with 3" deck screws to at least two false rafters.  The length would be determined by how far you extended them down the facia and what is needed to project you over the ridge area.  Basicly it will be on the opposit side of the roof once extended to clear the ridge.  I guess this is as clear as mud but maybe you can get the jist of what I am describing. With this arraignment it will allow you to use a snapping ring to the ridge safety line and move from one side to the other keeping you the same distance from the ridge or having to move your anchor line as you progress.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Pine Cone on June 09, 2010, 10:25:37 AM
I'd use a chicken ladder on the roof peak and a 3/4" nylon rope coming from the foundation on the opposite side of the roof you are working on.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi753.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx172%2FPine_Cone%2FChickenLadderOnRoof.jpg&hash=129f0113d69afa3e3b49fb0bf9cb05a3)

Here is a pix of my chicken ladder without the safety rope.  I like the larger diameter rope because it is easy on your hands.  No matter what you end up with, you will get a good adrenilin rush from time to time.  My roof was about half the pitch of yours.  I ended up finishing the cap on a slightly rainy day and was able to confirm that neither my boots or rubber knee pads were totally secure on the damp metal.  I hope to never have to test how well the safety rope really works ever again d*
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 09, 2010, 02:31:00 PM
Redoverfarm- Thanks for the info on the ridge venting, I think I've got a handle on it though I may have questions later.

Thanks also to you and Pine Cone on the chicken ladder idea, one of those "that's so simple- I should have thought of it" deals. Perfect solution and I will get to work building one as soon as I finish up the fascia and porch purlins.

I am hoping to beat the heavy rains which usually start around the first of July but with the way things are looking, and my previous 'luck' with the weather, I probably won't make it.
Roof arrives June 19.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 13, 2010, 05:00:41 PM
Not much accomplished since the last post but I'll relate what I've got.

I put a couple of windows in just for kicks. It went very smooth for the most part. Openings were the perfect size, and it was an easy job. the only problem was the flashing tape, which refused to stick well no matter how much I massaged it. It will melt the skin off your arm if it comes in contact with the glue though, that much I can tell you. Long sleeves next time.

I heard of some spray that is supposed to strengthen the bond, I'll have to look in to that.

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I had forgotten how nice they were on the interior, I'lll have to get some finish on them before they get mucked up.

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I trimmed the porch rafters yesterday

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The lumber I had left was pretty sad so I put in these temporary blocks using even sadder lumber to hold it all straight until I had the fascia and a few purlins on, then they will come out (they are not nailed).

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Then I cut, painted and nailed the fascia board.

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Well, that's about it for now- I will post again when I get a little more done.



Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 13, 2010, 05:19:39 PM
One more thing- does anyone know what became of my personal identity photo. I was borrowing Jim Bridger's because he is more handsome then I am. I hope he wasn't offended as I had meant it as a compliment- a true American hero!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Pine Cone on June 13, 2010, 05:43:23 PM
Looking good!

I used the spray adhesive since I put my flashing up last winter when it was colder than recommended.  I forget the exact product number, but it was a 3M spray adhesive that worked very well.  You spray it on, wait a while, and it works sort of like contact cement.  Not very adhesive by itself, but the flashing sticks to it very well.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 18, 2010, 06:03:13 AM
We had some friends visiting from Tucson so we spent most of the week relaxing, catching up on old times and swapping lies. Needless to say not much got accomplished on my house, though I did manage to learn a thing or two.

One morning I made the unfortunate discovery that some of my felt paper did not survive our most recent bought with the wind. Of course it was near the peak on the north side, which is the more difficult side to work, it being without the front porch that I can use as a home base to stand on.

My friend (Arlo) installs grid-tie PV systems and so has a lot of experience working on roofs. He suggested a simple, elegant solution that worked well and should be a great help when I start installing the metal as well.


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Tying these loops every foot or so allows you to clip in in different positions so you always have the right length rope wherever you are working.

I "let" Arlo do the patching since he was already up there testing out the rope. He was all over that roof like Spiderman and "we" had it patched in no time.

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He made it look real easy, but he is nearly 20 years younger than myself. We'll have to see how it goes with me.

Another bit of interesting info I learned from him- He was looking at my piers and mentioned That in Arizona (not sure about here in NM) code states that the sonotube form must be removed below ground level before backfilling, which he informs me is a real PITA. Too late for me but others preparing to do this may want to check into it.




 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: John Raabe on June 18, 2010, 09:19:27 AM
Not sure what the concern would be for a cardboard sonotube being buried in the ground?
From what I could find it should not be a worry. If anyone knows a code specification on this, please cite it.

Here is one answer to the question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080701092010AACVJiR

Here is another: http://knowledge.fhwa.dot.gov/cops/OpsPublic.nsf/discussionDisplay?Open&id=2A87B92A11027B76852573C6005FAC94&Group=Signals&tab=DISCUSSION

And here is another product that avoids the whole issue: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7581.msg97309#msg97309
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 27, 2010, 03:42:39 AM
We are putting up our roof now which as a lot of you know is one of the most exciting and satisfying portions of the build process. A couple of friends are helping me out with this part and after two exhausting (12-14 hour) days we are about half done.

I didn't have time to snap any photos but Jenny took this one which shows how we were set up to do the roof install.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Frooofprogress.jpg&hash=d33bfd32c6c1da8acc313a8bc42704e5)

Instead of a chicken ladder we used two ladders, one on either side of the ridge, tied together  so we could work both sides at once, moving them down the ridge as we go along.
The ropes with loops allow us to move around freely, though for a non-climber such as myself it is counter intuitive to place complete trust in a rope!  [shocked]

We will see how far we can get today- I'll try to take a few photos.


Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: diyfrank on June 27, 2010, 06:08:10 AM
Not sure what the concern would be for a cardboard sonotube being buried in the ground?
From what I could find it should not be a worry. If anyone knows a code specification on this, please cite it.

Here is one answer to the question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080701092010AACVJiR

Here is another: http://knowledge.fhwa.dot.gov/cops/OpsPublic.nsf/discussionDisplay?Open&id=2A87B92A11027B76852573C6005FAC94&Group=Signals&tab=DISCUSSION


I had an inspector that required that the cardboard from the sonotube be removed before backfilling. His reason was mold.
The ole #2 Razorbak did a great job stripping if you go with the spiral.

Dug, the rope with loops is what I am planning to use on mine. I'll be interested to hear your comments on doing it that way after you finish.
Your place is looking great. What color is the roof, white, silver?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: John Raabe on June 27, 2010, 10:28:40 AM
Thanks for that follow-up. Still not sure I agree that there is a house or code issue here. Sure there is mold in the soil, bacteria and fungus too. Always have been. They will turn a little cardboard into humus for the worms.

That said, it would be a good idea to do what the inspector wants - especially on the small stuff.  ::) ::) ::).
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on June 27, 2010, 05:15:41 PM
looks like you are off to a good start dug!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Don_P on June 27, 2010, 06:16:13 PM
The only thing I can think of on the buried cardboard is that we are not supposed to leave any buried organic matter to attract termites. They can smell the CO2 given off by decay and come looking for a meal. That said I've never thought of it or been called on it on tubes. I think I'd blow Dew through my nose if an inspector told me he was worried about mold outside.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 28, 2010, 06:40:18 AM
Yesterday turned out to be a successful venture. Most importantly nobody was injured, unless you count pulled muscles, cut fingers, and extreme fatigue.

A thunderstorm conveniently rolled in about lunchtime and blew over by the time we were through. We had gotten this far, backside nearly complete-

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Making progress-

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My friend Daniel working around the dormer. He has done many roofs and was invaluable in helping to figure out various tricky details. I covered the opening at the ridge with hardware cloth and screen.-

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The color is called galvalume (silver), though it does look kind of white when viewed from certain angles. I think it has a classic sort of farmhouse sort of look and am very happy with it overall.

 Other benefits include- Highly reflective, good for our hot summers.
                               Matches about any color.
                               Doesn't scratch.
                               Cheaper!

Against the blue it reminds me of the ocean, a pleasant mental respite here in the desert-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0018.jpg&hash=9c843e966a283a524e03dfef976c883b)

An ariel view from a hill in back of my house-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0008-6.jpg&hash=346574f780bea15fdbc4d210c85f10fa)

Except for the ridge cap and a little flashing around the dormer we were only one panel away from being finished by the days end. We really wanted to get that last one on but the light was fading fast and I decided we better call it quits. 14 hours of "roof mountaineering" had pretty much done me in.

I took this shot this morning-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0005-5.jpg&hash=054b81fbc9c9dcf751a0f96fd349e038)


A few things I learned about metal roofing to pass on to novices such as myself-

Three people seemed about ideal for the job. One on the ground to make cuts, hand up sheets, etc., two on the roof to haul up the sheets and screw them down.

The method we used with the two ladders  tied together at the top combined with the looped ropes worked great! The ladder on both sides allowed us to install one sheet on either side of the roof before moving it, saving time and effort, and the ropes gave us complete mobility to access anyplace we needed quickly and easily. We secured the bottom or the ladders with a U-bracket screwed into a stud and tied the ropes to the ladders. Be prepared for a workout though, and unless you are a climber you will probably never get comfortable leaning your entire weight against the rope (I didn't).

I think snapping lines for the screws is a good idea. I didn't do it for the backside, but wish I would have. Besides making it look neat, you have enough to worry about up there without having to think about where to put the screws. I made a template using two 2 by 4's on either side of the sheet marked at the proper intervals.

We didn't do this, but I think if you have someone working on the ground it wouldn't be a bad idea to pre drill the holes. For one thing it takes a considerable amount of muscle to get those screws to start through the metal, but more importantly I found out that that without pre drilling the metal will lift up and squash the washer, fooling you into thinking you have it down tight.

Never step on a ridge when screwing in the metal. It will deform the sheet in that area, causing problems down the line.


So I can't do the happy dance quite yet, but when the roof is complete you can bet I will! Of everything so far this has been the most daunting task, and it is very satisfying to have it (almost) done.












Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: John Raabe on June 28, 2010, 10:42:55 AM
Very nice progress and looking good. The roof is likely to be the most daunting of all the tasks. You did good planning. :D :D :D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: OlJarhead on June 28, 2010, 05:18:16 PM
Very nice!!!!

For others (since it's too late for you) what we did worked very well -- we pre-drilled holes every two feet and at the appropriate places at the eves.  We did this by stacking all the panels for one side (13 in our case) and drilling them at once.  This meant all holes were lined up perfectly.

Some like patterns though and this can be done the same way except you drill half with one place and the other have 1 foot lower making a diagonal pattern when installed.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 28, 2010, 06:45:43 PM
Quote
For others (since it's too late for you) what we did worked very well -- we pre-drilled holes every two feet and at the appropriate places at the eves.  We did this by stacking all the panels for one side (13 in our case) and drilling them at once.  This meant all holes were lined up perfectly.

Well I wish I would have thought of that! An excellent idea that I would recommend to others. Next time...
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 29, 2010, 03:57:34 PM
Let the rains come down.  Roof is done!!!


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Froof.jpg&hash=e7ef2b1b53c0db8800321f38624d4510)


Still some windows and doors to attend to but that will be a piece of cake compared to the last four days.

Life is good.    ::)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Native_NM on June 29, 2010, 06:13:15 PM
Very impressive.  I bet the film set crews will be knocking on your door soon!  ;D

How far south are you?  I'm way up in Albuquerque, but love southern NM.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 29, 2010, 06:33:13 PM
Quote
Very impressive.  I bet the film set crews will be knocking on your door soon! 

How far south are you?  I'm way up in Albuquerque, but love southern NM.
Posted on: Today at 04:57:34 PM Posted by:

Thanks, I'm blushing!  :)

We are near Silver City, just south of the Gila wilderness area. We like it a lot.

Very nice areas in your neck of the woods also!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 30, 2010, 03:33:25 PM
Rain fell today, perfectly on cue.

Not a real gully washer but a prelude of things to come. We always get at least a few monster sized rainstorms this time of year and oftentimes there are many. My favorite time of year, especially now.

It was pleasant, with my preferred cold beverage in hand just relaxing inside our future home and listening to the rain pelt the metal. I could hardly hear it hitting the main portion of the roof, even without insulation, but the noise on the porch was satisfyingly loud. One of my favorite sounds.

I got to thinking about how I am going to do my collar ties, which shamefully remain undone.

I have learned much about collar ties and rafter ties on this forum, Don P being a star contributor of enticing bits of information. So I got to thinking-  A rafter tie checks the downward forces from spreading the walls, and are most effective when located at the lowest possible point on the rafters.

A collar tie prevents the top of the roof from "splitting open like a zipper at the ridge line" (quoted , I think from someone here) from interior pressure forces. So might it be even more effective located higher rather than lower? Seems like it would have the most efficient leverage right at the top.

Maybe it's the cold beverage... [crz]
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on July 04, 2010, 01:11:36 PM
While visiting family this weekend in Tucson my brother was looking at my page on this site and I noticed that all of the images I posted have about 1/3 of them chopped off, mostly to the right it seems.

I thought it might be his computer somehow so I checked on my moms and found the same thing.

I was hoping some of you could tell me if the pictures are cut off. For instance, on the last photo I posted you should be able to see the entire house with some room to the right. On My brothers screen the house was cut off on the right side.

I am a computer knucklehead, so please be patient. My camera is a digital SLR that produces large files. I export them as medium jpegs to photobucket where they end up at about 80-140 kbs. I have tried some as small jpegs but their dimensions on the computer screen remain the same, they just look grainier.

They load in reasonable time on my computer, and I can see the entire image.
I have a widescreen Mac, could that have anything to do with it?

I'm no photographer, but I did take the time to try and post at least decent photos, so I was a little disappointed to discover this.    :(
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: rick91351 on July 04, 2010, 02:19:58 PM
Dug on the last photo you posted I see some junipers to the right hand side of the screen my be a fifth of the screen.  Two fifths on the left hand side.  Photo seems to be well composed.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on July 04, 2010, 03:33:59 PM
That's the way it should be, I wonder why they only partially show up on my brother and moms computer? ???
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: rick91351 on July 04, 2010, 05:13:35 PM
1. They are family and trying to be difficult.   ;D

2. They set you up  ;D

3. My computer is magic  :D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Pine Cone on July 04, 2010, 07:39:29 PM
For larger pixel pictures there is a scroll-bar that should show up at the bottom of your pictures.  If you slide it around you should be able to see everything as you posted it.  With multiple images the scroll-bar only shows up below the last image.  If there is no scroll-bar their may be an issue with the web browser being used.  FWIW I'm using Firefox...

In your "Roof is done" picture (which looks great by the way) you seem to be using 1024x757 resolution.  The "frame" size used by Country Plans seems to be smaller than 800 pixels wide, so you get a scroll bar on 800x600 pixel images as well.  My guess is that you see only part of the image if it is wider than 640 pixels...

I'm with you about the sound of rain on a tin roof.  I built my covered deck with a single layer of corrugated roofing so I could get that sound.  Brings back lots of nice memories and we're trying hard to make some new ones as well.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: SouthernTier on July 06, 2010, 11:34:06 AM
Regarding the pictures:  That's why I ended up choosing picasaweb to host the pictures.  You can upload any size you want, but then when you embed the pictures by copying and pasting the URL tags, you can tell it to embed a medium size picture (800 x 600 I think) which is perfect for the forum.  Google does all the resizing for me before they send them off to your screen.  They have three or so different sizes you can embed.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on July 06, 2010, 01:12:29 PM
Quote
Regarding the pictures:  That's why I ended up choosing picasaweb to host the pictures.  You can upload any size you want, but then when you embed the pictures by copying and pasting the URL tags, you can tell it to embed a medium size picture (800 x 600 I think) which is perfect for the forum.  Google does all the resizing for me before they send them off to your screen.  They have three or so different sizes you can embed.

Thanks, I think I'll give that a try.


I made a discovery today while "adjusting" a window opening (note to self: a bit large on the opening beats a bit small hands down!) with a sawzall.

I kind of like the look created by dragging the blade, flat across the board. Kind of like rough sawn, if you squint your eyes.

I laid the blade flat like this, and dragged it back and forth-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0002-2.jpg&hash=e4ec15dd5631b32ed85b2ac45b3adc98)

In a few minutes I had this-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0005-6.jpg&hash=aaec3b4e33e30b9bc8735f8e38fbad20)

lightly sanded with a little polyurethane sprayed on-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Ffinal.jpg&hash=7a5a9c428b53fbb12c1d7e9bd8d5b636)

Not exactly authentic but it creates a rustic look very fast. I tried a few other methods and found that by angling the blade one way for a few passes and then the other way, you can create a checkered pattern. I may end up trying it for some interior trim if I can't find what I want around here.

Very little has been accomplished since the roof last week, I have to admit that I've been quite a slacker.
I did manage to get a few windows in today. As mentioned above, complications turned a 20 minute job into 2 hours!

The ones I installed today are awning windows-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0013-1.jpg&hash=b8b6219a6460943a14e0f62d4a0b12f4)

You can see here where I turned a 1 & 1/2 in. board into a 1 & 1/4.  d*-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2F_DSC0014-2.jpg&hash=9c85cc80a5456635aa45fe62148609c0)








Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on July 06, 2010, 03:06:04 PM
And everybody thinks that a Sawz-all is for demolition work.  In fact it is one of the most useful tools in new construction as well.  I think they should have named it "Fix-all" instead.   ;D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Don_P on July 06, 2010, 06:23:32 PM
All depending sometimes it's ok to do a little modifying of the window.
 I was catching up, in response to your question of the 30th... yes  ;D
I crop and resize then compress pics on xat.com freeware, I usually make stuff for forums under 500 pixels wide and can usually get the pic below 50k. There are pics and pages on here I've never made it through on dialup.

You realize some archeologist is going to write a totally believable paper on pitsawing in the 21st century  [cool]
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: OlJarhead on July 06, 2010, 07:22:54 PM
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf102%2Femcvay%2FIMG_0068.jpg&hash=df882759aafffff152c560fdb02a6231)
You could just cut some wood with a chainsaw mill :)  Does exactly what you want!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on July 07, 2010, 03:23:56 AM
Quote
You could just cut some wood with a chainsaw mill   Does exactly what you want!

I saw your mill and my first thought was "I gotta get one of those!". But then my second thought was that though I have a nearly endless supply of juniper and pinion on my property for firewood, most of what I cut is under 6 in. diameter.  :(

If I drive up the road a couple miles and 500 ft. higher in elevation there are giant pines. Someday I will own a truck and trailer.  [waiting]
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: umtallguy on July 07, 2010, 05:10:19 AM
thats the beauty of the chainsaw mill, you can take an alaskan sawmill with you and attach it right to the log, and cut as long or short a logs as you want. No trailer required
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: OlJarhead on July 07, 2010, 07:30:28 AM
thats the beauty of the chainsaw mill, you can take an alaskan sawmill with you and attach it right to the log, and cut as long or short a logs as you want. No trailer required

Yup :)

Or if you  have a Jeep then put a skidder on the back (make it at home with simple and cheap plans from Mother Earth News) and pull the logs back -- or just strap the lumber to the roof when done :)  So many options!

We use an ATV with a cheapo trailer ($239) to bring the lumber back and mill the logs right where they are cut -- which is where the wind made them fall during a storm years ago :) :D

Don't be shy man!  Think of the options!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on July 09, 2010, 08:22:38 AM
dug, your rough sawn lumber looks better than store bought
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on July 16, 2010, 01:51:02 PM
We got our first real monsoon rainstorm today. A gullywasher, literally.

It doesn't rain that often around here but when it does it seems to try to make up for lost time. Just when water is shooting from the sky at the highest rate most people would deem possible, it then starts to come down harder. Fascinating, and somewhat frightening.

This is the arroyo that cuts through our property. Normally dry, but it runs pretty hard several times a year. About 15 minutes before I took this photo it looked like the Colorado, but I didn't want to brave the rain to get a picture.


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTEDSZOH_QvI%2FAAAAAAAAACI%2FR7xb-fcDse4%2Fs800%2F_DSC0004.jpg&hash=f8d6068bf0f6c0a80a2ba2727735dbbb)



Poor progress lately on the homestead, but what else is new?   :P

I have been assembling the loft beams. Some of you may have heard, because I posted a question in general forum, but I experienced an unpleasant surprise when I unbundled the beams. I knew they had twisted some, but they were way worse than I thought.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTDugcnDRm7I%2FAAAAAAAAABc%2FtpaTjPtLAaY%2Fs800%2Ftwisted.jpg&hash=d467d96a4799083212f67fd7d5d35f01)

I was a little depressed because I figured it was pretty hopeless to expect to get them any better than just marginal. With a few tips from folks here and several clamps, bottle jacks, hammer, prybar, a decent vocabulary of swear words, and a little faith they actually came out surprisingly well.   ;D

This was the worst one. I enlisted the aid of a bottle jack and I swear that I had to crank it harder than I would if it were under an F350 with a full load of sand! Maybe it was because I had a  short lever though. You can see that my clamp is on the verge of death as well.

I blocked everything real good so the whole wall wouldn't fly apart. I wonder how many pounds of pressure that beam is loaded with? On second thought, maybe I don't want to know.  [shocked]

Can wood explode?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTEDSYw-j4iI%2FAAAAAAAAACE%2FFXpCGy8aWOU%2Fs800%2F_DSC0007.jpg&hash=191e165069fad8dd2f4f4ec50e9f8e33)

I like clamps-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTEDRFgg_mqI%2FAAAAAAAAAB0%2FA7BfG0qseSg%2Fs800%2F_DSC0012.jpg&hash=7ce3979ccd81a156cbe48121d8d4abe1)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTEDSY_UEzFI%2FAAAAAAAAACA%2FQLWglJ8jWwY%2Fs400%2F_DSC0010.jpg&hash=81bef400aff66fad9e1410174683718e)

This was the worst one. I didn't come out perfect, but I'll take it-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTEDRFP-8QRI%2FAAAAAAAAABo%2Fnio8OPDSxZs%2Fs800%2F_DSC0031.jpg&hash=ee9522655dabf449204a4abf75e42ce1)

Overall I am quite happy with the results. I really blocked it all tight so I am hoping that they will stay pretty close to the same (and the beams don't explode!).

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTEDRE3hbExI%2FAAAAAAAAABk%2Fzarfp4_RvDA%2Fs800%2F_DSC0034.jpg&hash=4eb8c33bf6361c5171d760819ac80372)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTEDRFUwW9jI%2FAAAAAAAAABw%2Fnt2n76tGDgA%2Fs800%2F_DSC0016.jpg&hash=5e40174314b410b16adc63da63116cc4)


So next I will finish the loft and get the center support beam in place. I know, I probably should have done that first. I sort of painted myself in a corner, so to speak, and couldn't fit the beams in with the center one in place. As it was I had to remove one of the ledger boards because I didn't have enough room to squeeze them in there!   d*

Then, (ugh!@!) the stairs. I try not to think too far ahead, so as not to become mentally overwhelmed.

Until next time!










 

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on July 16, 2010, 02:39:55 PM
Dug I would say that the beams will somewhat "Neutralize" themselves over time.  If you would have taken the same beam and blocked it up on each end and weighted the middle then overtime it would have bowed.  Although the wood fiber is dead so to speak it will still react to forces that are exerted.   I had to do the same with mine maybe not to the extent that you had but some were distorted.  It is very difficult to cure sawn demensional lumber that large without some distortion.  I would say by this time next year you will have forgotten about it.  ;D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: archimedes on July 17, 2010, 04:54:04 AM
Good job.  You got them much straighter than I thought you would.

The place is looking good.  It's easy to get overwhelmed but just go one step at a time.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on July 19, 2010, 06:03:04 AM
I have a pretty good start on the loft framing. Everything went smooth, though true to form I spent an exorbitant amount of time making sure everything was square, level and plumb.

Maybe it has something to do with fear of commitment. Once you hammer a nail or put in a bolt its just seems so permanent!


(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTERkLhrdv4I%2FAAAAAAAAACU%2FcuYKirdP_T4%2Fs800%2Floft.jpg&hash=0a1c9d5e2b542534ed827143e7979672)


Keeping track of receipts is not one of my strong points but I bet I've got a couple hundred bucks wrapped up in lags and bolts for the loft and rafter ties.  :(



I am beginning to believe that a few boxes of nails and a pile of lumber really can be transformed into a home!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on July 19, 2010, 07:51:40 AM
dug, that looks real good!!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: NM_Shooter on July 20, 2010, 01:51:30 PM
Nice work, and a clean build.  Where are you building? 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on July 20, 2010, 02:43:48 PM
Thanks Shooter.

We are just south of the Gila National forest, in the Mimbres valley.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on July 28, 2010, 10:11:44 AM
Dug, do you have any more pictures of your loft?
Im watching yours for Ideas.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on July 28, 2010, 04:37:07 PM
Quote
Dug, do you have any more pictures of your loft?

Well. unfortunately I haven't got much farther on that part. I did get a partition wall up and was itching to start on the stairs but a friend of mine was going into town to get some lumber so I took advantage of the opportunity and hitched a ride in order to get the lumber I needed to finish my porch.

So I've been working on that, and some more of the foundation bracing as I was also able to pick up some pressure treated lumber on the same trip. One of my (many) problems is I tend to get distracted and jump around a lot. I had a goal of finishing the exterior before winter so I decided I had best stick to that until its done- lots of work to do yet. I figure if I can accomplish that goal then I'll have a warm, dry area to work on the interior all winter.  8)

So for now, the loft will have to wait. I'll try to post pics of what I have so far before going to work at my "other" job tomorrow.  :(
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on July 29, 2010, 03:23:34 AM
Thanks dug
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on August 07, 2010, 04:48:13 AM
Well it's been awhile. I thought I's better check in, I don't want anyone thinking I gave up on the build and bought a singlewide instead.  ;)

Been doing a little of this and that, trying to get ready for the big stucco job coming up. I've got the porch mostly done except the stairs. The decking will wait until after the stucco.

In this photo you can see the fake lintel beam over the small window. I like it and intend to do the same with the rest, though I think I am going to cut a small angle on them.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTFy3GsOEzBI%2FAAAAAAAAACw%2F1KZJUpf4FyU%2Fs800%2F_DSC0017.jpg&hash=d835f01de0af0ff6933f75754934685b)

I have all the windows installed except the one that will be a bump out, which I have so far successfully procrastinated. It's the one with the custom rain tarp.-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTF1ZuKXqEdI%2FAAAAAAAAADQ%2F4PMHw-rAvdo%2Fs800%2F_DSC0010.jpg&hash=8b7c65fa9899b13d9c475c1fd3d5b73d)

Kids enjoying the view from the loft-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTFy3HW9MD5I%2FAAAAAAAAAC8%2FxR9h-y8RR_M%2Fs800%2F_DSC0023.jpg&hash=78b7662e80116dcfb10e888b3d1605c2)

And this one pretty much says it all-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTFy3HAyk46I%2FAAAAAAAAAC4%2F0wo7E6mMx6U%2Fs800%2F_DSC0020.jpg&hash=443ef9ddb8a628e1627d63008849cb57)

Now I'm shopping for a couple of doors, my god but they're expensive! Yes, there are cheaper ones, but all the ones I like seem like they are $1000 +. I've been checking craigslist, even the big cities that are too far away to be practical but I have seen very few come up. I am going to need a bit of luck, that or win the lotto- wait, scratch that last one, I've never played the lotto!  :)

Wish me luck!



Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Alasdair on August 07, 2010, 03:46:26 PM
Good luck looking for your doors and well done on a nice project. I am looking forward to the rest of you build - I'm hunting for good ideas to steal ... :)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on August 11, 2010, 04:37:14 AM
Framing the kitchen bump out window-

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Now I just have to install a micro-roof with some leftover scraps from the main roofing job, and install the window of course. Probably a dumb question but does anybody know if a tiny "roof" like this needs vented? I hope not, because I didn't do it.

Edging closer to the dreaded stucco.  :-\


Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: texasgun on August 11, 2010, 05:14:02 AM
Thanks for showing the window bump out, [cool] its a project I wondered how it would be done and your pictures tell it well.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: mldrenen on August 11, 2010, 06:50:44 AM
great looking house, dug.  you're attention to detail is impressive.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on August 23, 2010, 03:20:17 PM
Got the front door hung.   :)

I wanted to buy pre-hung doors but couldn't find the style I wanted so I went the slab door route. It was a bit harder, and definitely took longer than I expected but with some great tips I learned on this forum it went pretty well.

I cut the bevel using a palm sander. Not the most appropriate tool but I didn't have a power planer and the sander was less scary for me than a hand plane. Not perfect but acceptable.

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I then dropped it into the frame so I could mark the hinges-

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Chiseling out the hinge insets-

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A big sigh of relief when it dropped right in-

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I got pretty even gaps, though not as good as when it was on the table. I didn't leave much space in the rough opening so I had to make some skinny shims-

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Still have to put on the jamb extensions and moulding, sand caulk and paint jambs, remove door and sand, stain, seal, and then start on the back one...Aye Carumba!  [crz] I now understand the value of pre-hung doors.

Overall though it was one of the more fun and satisfying jobs thus far. Nothing like your own front door closing with a perfect fit.   8)




Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on August 23, 2010, 04:38:29 PM
Looks like you've done well!

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on August 24, 2010, 03:31:52 AM
Good Job dug, that looks great!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on August 24, 2010, 05:37:52 AM
Thanks guys!

I will be spending the next 4 or 5 days paying back the friend who helped me with my roof by helping him stucco a place he is working on, a perfect situation for me as I have never done stucco work before. It is a large house so I should be up to at least apprentice level by the time we are through!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Tom on August 25, 2010, 02:37:30 PM
Stucco application will look good on your resume ;D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 03, 2010, 02:35:18 PM
Over a month since my last post and not a lot of progress to show I'm afraid. Besides being my normal slow self I nearly broke my hip falling off my porch while working on some trim. It was only about four feet but as falls usually go it was unexpected and so it was awkward, and I landed hard on my hip. I thought it was O.K. at first but later that night it got real painful, and sleep was impossible. An X-ray later showed it did not crack, but it was several days of hobbling before I could do much good.

When I started putting up the netting in preparation for stucco I noticed right away that wasps seemed irresistibly attracted to the netting. Almost as if they saw it as the mother of all hives, the netting being the same hexagonal shape as their hives. Or maybe it was just the paper. At any rate we seemed to achieve a sort of detente, I didn't mess with them and they seemed to ignore me. Besides, I was too lazy to drive to town to buy some poison. This truce worked out O.K. for several days until I got to working on one section that the wasps seemed to be especially interested in. Still didn't have any poison co I used my shop-vac on them in the evening when they were moving kind of slow. In the morning it looked all clear so on I proceeded until one came out of nowhere and nailed me on the arm. I had a brain spasm and slapped at it and jumped off the ladder at the same time, landing badly and injuring my heal in the process.

Biological warfare.

Heavy casualties suffered by the enemy, all looks clear and after two days I am hobbling sufficiently to give it another try. Nearly immediately one comes from nowhere and scores a direct hit on my neck. On the same ladder, same step, I do the same thing again and land hard on the same heal! Unbelievable stupidity! d*

More poison, many more deaths, but they continue to harass me at that particular spot. The  injured, but not yet dead ones all seemed to fly off in the same direction, and I followed for about 100 yards but failed to find their headquarters.

Nearly out of ammunition and temporarily  defeated, I am taking a break from this portion above the bump out window, which should have been a 2 hour job.


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The rest of the netting went smoothly, and I am getting a better feel for how the final product will (someday!) look.

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I flashed toe tops of my fake lintels like this me-

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details on door jamb-

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Also got the back door done, same as the front-

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Ready to stucco but one of the friends who was going to help me injured his shoulder, and we have found no replacement as of yet. It's really a 3 person job, assuming two of them are good. I am usually the mixer, but am improving my skills.

Gonna have to write me a country song.  [waiting]   ;)





Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on October 03, 2010, 03:40:39 PM
I cant wait to see the stucco progress dug!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Pine Cone on October 03, 2010, 05:28:02 PM
Sorry to hear about the injuries, but I'm glad they weren't worse. 

Over the years I've gotten better a quitting before I fatally injure myself, but that's only because I pushed too far too many times and suffered the consequences.  We don't seem to learn from others mistakes as well as we could.  Unfortunately, wasps and ladders don't mix well no matter how you do it.

Looking pretty good, are you going for the Greek blue and white look or will your stucco be some other color?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 03, 2010, 05:46:54 PM
Quote
Looking pretty good, are you going for the Greek blue and white look or will your stucco be some other color?

Thanks. The color will be some shade of brown and the upper gable ends and dormer will be some sort of wood siding. Was thinking of wavy siding but the price is outrageous even for 300 sq. ft. Maybe cedar shingles? board and batten? Time will tell.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 18, 2010, 10:17:43 AM
Lining up porch landing, hillbilly style- (note stringline attached to tailgate, plumbline on chair)


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My first attempt at stringers, didn't go too bad-

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When you have done without for awhile, stairs are quite the luxury! Handrail is temporary while trying to figure out how I want to do it.

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I've been hard at work doing the stucco finish coat at my friends place and getting good practice. A word of warning to anyone who has not done a lot of concrete work and is planning to in the future- Concrete (and lime) can mess you up if you are not real careful. I was wearing heavy rubber gloves and didn't notice the chaffing it was causing on my arm until it was too late.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTLyXsbServI%2FAAAAAAAAAGU%2F0DQrf9uiVQs%2Fs800%2F_DSC0021.jpg&hash=12a376604d347d160bf94e581af50b18)

also some water and mix got in my glove and went unnoticed too long-

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It burned through what looks like nearly every layer of my skin, I fear scars will permanently remind me of that day.  >:(  d*






Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on October 18, 2010, 12:45:53 PM
Were you ever in wv.  You would fit right in.  Used trees to hold the string line for my footings and layout for the blocks on my deck.  Just had to make sure that the wind was not blowing to be percise.  ;D

As far as the abrasions from concrete and mortar "been there and done that" as they say.  Takes a while for that to heal.  I work as long as I can without gloves and when they start getting tender I break out a pair.  Hate working in gloves especially doing mason work.  Still have one that has just healed completely from about a month ago. 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 25, 2010, 07:36:16 AM
Windows taped and ready for stucco-

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We got these two walls done the first day. We could have done all four (took about 4 hours for these) but we got started a bit late and decided one more day wouldn't hurt.-

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Day 2.  The only photo I managed to snap while we were working.

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All four walls covered, feels pretty good!

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Though I am anxious to get the finish color coat on we decided it would be best to leave the scratch coat until spring. Winter is closing in fast and it will likely start freezing at night any time now. Also the interior work will add a lot of weight and possibly cause additional settling, plus hammering nails and such probably wouldn't do it much good.

It was hard work and I hope I am done with cement for awhile, but we had a pretty good time doing it (note: A 30 pack of beer doesn't go far with a stucco crew!). Afterwords several more friends came over (and 10 kids!) with more beer and plenty of good food and we pitched horseshoes until we couldn't see anymore (lack of vision was due to the sun going down, not because of too much beer consumed.   ;) ).  The day had a wholesome, barn raising feel to it, with everyone pitching in.

Also- got started on my rebar railing.

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Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on October 25, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
WOW!
dug, the place looks wonderful.
are you going to stucco the gable end?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 25, 2010, 07:47:01 AM
Thanks astedham.

Gable ends and dormer will be covered with rough sawn shiplap siding or maybe cedar shingles. I really have to decide soon- I want to get started on it!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on October 25, 2010, 09:37:36 AM
Exterior looks so much more like a home in scratch coat rather than the wrap and all showing.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on October 25, 2010, 01:45:46 PM
Dug looking good.  You are wise to waiting on the finished coat for the reason that you said.  You have worked too hard to turn it into a bad looking job.

On the rebar railings you might consider finishing the rebar rather than building it into the railing before you paint.  It will be a booger to get painted in place. 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 25, 2010, 02:13:29 PM
Quote
On the rebar railings you might consider finishing the rebar rather than building it into the railing before you paint.  It will be a booger to get painted in place.

It was sort of a trial run so I just temporarily screwed it together with intent to take it apart and finish it. I've been struggling a bit as to what to do with the rebar, painting would probably make the most sense but I was hoping for a hoping for a more natural, slightly rusted look. Polyurethane would most likely melt off inside a year and I was thinking of maybe just rubbing them down with linseed oil a couple times a year, but knowing me I wouldn't keep up on that and the bottom rail would soon be black.

Any suggestions?   ???  I did drill a smaller, through hole where the spindle goes into the bottom support rail for water to drain.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 25, 2010, 02:17:47 PM
Quote
Exterior looks so much more like a home in scratch coat rather than the wrap and all showing.

But the wrap and netting look was starting to grow on me!   ;D  I like it better now though, can't wait to get the rest of the siding on.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on October 25, 2010, 02:22:08 PM
Dug the next time you are at one of the big box stores check out the speciality paint offered now. Hammered, stone, patina and the like.  Here is one site although there are others.

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProductFinder.asp?pfm=BBF
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on October 25, 2010, 02:22:53 PM
Chrome the rebar!  ;D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: drainl on October 26, 2010, 07:14:04 AM
Great job on the stucco!  We'll tackle this in the spring - it's always nice to see someone else do it first! 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 26, 2010, 08:04:50 AM
Quote
Great job on the stucco!  We'll tackle this in the spring - it's always nice to see someone else do it first!

Thanks! I had never done any stucco work before this so I was lucky to earn my apprenticeship by helping some friends stucco their 2000 sq. ft. house first. They returned the favor which was nice because it seems 3 or 4 people is about ideal for the job. Less makes it difficult to keep a flow going without too many cold seams.

I found it to be a lot of fun, a nice break from the relative precision required for dimensional lumber. I wouldn't want to do it for a living though!

I see you guys have done your fair share of cement work so the fun part is probably over.   ;)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Don_P on October 26, 2010, 09:52:26 AM
For the rebar, anybody know what the "blueing" recipe for a brown bess was?
I should buy stock in rustoleum leather brown, I seem to use gallons of it.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on October 26, 2010, 10:32:36 AM
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=145/k=/t=S/mfg=/Products/Blackening-Browning (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=145/k=/t=S/mfg=/Products/Blackening-Browning)   ???


http://www.militaryheritage.com/browning.htm (http://www.militaryheritage.com/browning.htm)
http://chestofbooks.com/reference/Facts-For-Everybody/How-To-Brown-Gun-Barrels.html (http://chestofbooks.com/reference/Facts-For-Everybody/How-To-Brown-Gun-Barrels.html)
http://www.ehow.com/how_6904788_brown-gun-parts.html (http://www.ehow.com/how_6904788_brown-gun-parts.html)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: nathan.principe on October 26, 2010, 10:58:16 AM
Youre doing a really great job, the rebar railing is a very nice touch, a great "re-purposing" use of the material.  Are you gonna go across the whole porch with it?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 26, 2010, 11:26:50 AM
Quote
Youre doing a really great job, the rebar railing is a very nice touch, a great "re-purposing" use of the material.  Are you gonna go across the whole porch with it?

Thanks Nathan- I am going across the porch with the same material. Also thinking about using it inside for stair and loft railing.

 I may experiment with the rustoleum sprays, I am intrigued by the post by Don(s) about the browning technique but that might take more time than I am willing to devote to the rebar.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on October 26, 2010, 11:38:35 AM
.... browning technique but that might take more time than I am willing to devote to the rebar.

might be quicker to chrome it     ::)



...it's a slow cold afternoon and I have a cold
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Shawn B on October 26, 2010, 11:46:04 AM
Maybe powder paint?

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 26, 2010, 12:24:07 PM
Quote
might be quicker to chrome it     


You really like the chrome, huh Don?  ;D

If I were a former Hell's Angel I might deck out my cabin in twisted chrome steel. Chromed rebar probably would look pretty cool!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on October 26, 2010, 12:31:47 PM
Not so much any more.  :o  I'm just bored, and got stuck on "chrome it".
Old hot rodder saying was if it won't go chrome it.... I was looking at some old photos of chromed hot rods....
One thing led to another.......

Every other minute I have to blow my nose, this is getting old fast.



I used to like chrome and candy apple paint on my motorcycles.   ;D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on October 26, 2010, 01:32:06 PM
dug, did you use closures on you ridge-cap?
I am getting close to that step.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 26, 2010, 02:09:33 PM
Quote
dug, did you use closures on you ridge-cap?
I am getting close to that step.

We didn't. There is a photo on page 6 that shows how we covered the ridge with hardware cloth and screen before we installed the ridge cap. We omitted the closures so the roof could vent. We figured with the amount of overlap and steep pitch it would be O.K. I'm not sure if that is the right way or not.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on October 26, 2010, 03:07:08 PM
Thanks dug.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: drainl on October 27, 2010, 06:08:11 AM
Less makes it difficult to keep a flow going without too many cold seams.
I found it to be a lot of fun, a nice break from the relative precision required for dimensional lumber. I wouldn't want to do it for a living though!
I see you guys have done your fair share of cement work so the fun part is probably over.   ;)

Good idea on the teams to avoid seams. What kind of a stucco mixture did you use?

I'm excited to get the blue insulation on the outside of our house - finally something that's not grey!  We're putting the roof on now, but we went with the Galvalume finish - more grey!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 27, 2010, 06:27:47 AM
Quote
Good idea on the teams to avoid seams. What kind of a stucco mixture did you use?

We used 12 shovels sand, 3 shovels portland, 1 &1/2  shovels lime. A little on the weak side from some of the formulas I've read, but my more experienced friends had used this mix many times and it works well. I will probably use a colored premixed blend for the finish coat.

We went with the galvalume roof also. A friend ordered a roof from the same company in a reddish color, and I was surprised how easily it scratched while off loading it. You have to work hard to scratch the galvalume!  :)

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on November 05, 2010, 12:43:46 PM
I got the loft stairs done, or roughed in at least.

There are 2 landings on these stairs, I started with this one-

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Lots of math, and checking my measurements twice I still managed to screw it up. I had to disassemble it and rip the 2 by 8's on top into 2 by 6's.  d* Glad I used screws!

All fixed and top stringers installed. Also got the second landing height figured out and in place-

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They didn't turn out perfect but close enough, all treads should be within about 1/8 in. of each other and everything is reasonably level. Lots of different things to factor and 1000 ways you can mess up, I picked a few of them.
 
Mini stringers complete and temporary treads in place-

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Funny how something like stairs, taken for granted by most everyone can be such a big deal when you are trying to put together something like this. "I can actually walk up to my loft!"   ;D Baby steps I guess.

I moved the wood stove in in anticipation of the chimney pipe arriving. Half the order came and the other had to be shipped from somewhere else. Another big step!

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It's gratifying to see floor plans, previously only seen on flat paper or imagined in your mind begin to transform into 3 dimensions.  8)







Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on November 05, 2010, 01:09:55 PM
Dug you had me worried for a minute when I saw your first picture showing the flooring laid in the loft over the stairway but I figured that you were laying it and later would cut it flush with the stairway wall.  If you don't have codes to contend with you can improvise to make it work out for you.  Thats the way it should be but some think different.  Making progress is the fun part. Enjoy.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: archimedes on November 05, 2010, 01:28:59 PM
Looks good.  Stairs can be a head scratcher.  d*
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on November 05, 2010, 02:13:57 PM
Looks Good dug,
great use of space too!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: nathan.principe on November 05, 2010, 03:01:29 PM
coming together nicely!  just curious, what was your inspiration for making a raised entry?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on November 06, 2010, 02:20:02 AM
Quote
coming together nicely!  just curious, what was your inspiration for making a raised entry?

The living room area will be raised to the same level and connect with the rear entry landing. Kind of hard to explain so you'll just have to stay tuned. Also I was scrapping for every inch of wall space to the left of the door and this allowed the door to be located a couple feet farther to the right than if the steps had continued down.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: speedfunk on November 06, 2010, 09:25:11 AM
i am with ya on using screws.  SO nice to not have to hammer that apart when you screw up.  I like the stairs and the landing ...gives it a lot of dimensions to interest the eye..

nice job
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on November 08, 2010, 01:41:27 PM
Can't say it too many times..... screws are not structurally rated, especially in shear. Good for temporary, see how it fits, sort of thing.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on November 09, 2010, 04:11:02 AM
Quote
Can't say it too many times..... screws are not structurally rated, especially in shear. Good for temporary, see how it fits, sort of thing.

Well that opens up a question I've been pondering for awhile. What is the definition of shear strength?

I had always thought of it as being a screw's, (or nail's) ability to resist a perpendicular load. For example, if you drive a screw half way into a board and give it a whack with a hammer from 90 degrees it demonstrates a lack of shear strength when it breaks off.

Does shear strength also pertain to a fastener's ability to resist loads pulling out, as in a screw head popping off?

I used screws on the landing I assembled but was careful to make sure that none of them were carrying any weight. All joists are blocked, and supported by jack studs that extend to the subfloor. In other words I basically built a box using screws, but the box rests on top of "legs".

Am I still relying on the shear strength of the screws? I'd take a photo to show what I mean but it's still dark out.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Don_P on November 09, 2010, 04:36:14 AM
Sounds like you understand it. Withdrawal and shear are the technical terms. Shear is a side load, withdrawal is pullout. If you've ever used a screw that is soft enough that the head strips out it is probably pretty good in shear, it is ductile like a nail and will bend before snapping. When they harden it enough to drive well it becomes brittle in shear. Engineeringwise a brittle failure is always to be avoided, it gives no warning where a ductile failure usually distorts and creaks before failing giving some warning. An engineer once told me that you want the building to scream when it is in trouble.

The testing lab has a device where they drive a fastener in sideways, slide a known weight up a fixed length rod and drop it to the projecting fastener, recording deflection or failure... there's your hammer whack scenario  :).
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on November 09, 2010, 06:20:18 AM
dug, your method is good.

Your screws only serve to hold the wood 'legs' in place so the legs take the load. There's virtually no load on those screws.



Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: UK4X4 on November 09, 2010, 08:45:10 AM

A bit late but still a possible for your re-bar

I have bare steel posts and beams and a table made out of I beams and steel in my UK house

Used a flap disc and sprayed with clear rattle can laquer.

If I were to do it for an exterior piece of steel not sure laquer would work,

In a wooden bath and shower in the same house I used clear boat resin for the finish- 10 years the finish lasted before re-doing

mind you no UV in my bathroom !

Resin would probably work for your aplication and finish choice, as its clear and hard wearing, mix and apply with brush or roller
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: glenn kangiser on November 09, 2010, 08:48:41 AM
I also use screws, even knowing that they may shear in case of excessive shrinkage.

I use nails in critical areas especially most framing.  I use screws in non-critical framing where it may be hard to nail.

I use screws for fastening the paneling and decking and leave them a bit countersunk with my driver, but I don't even bother trying to hide them.  Instead I kind of evenly space them so they look to be part of the decoration.  In non-critical areas if I break one due to shrinkage I simply remove the piece and replace it or add another screw if need be.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on November 21, 2010, 08:08:00 AM
Still plugging away, been working on the loft decking-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_UroNSkE-1kw%2FTOky7DK_SlI%2FAAAAAAAAAIY%2FLt_-GEN2BQ4%2Fs800%2F_DSC0033.jpg&hash=76887e0b3197c2a1fbb5a635e93989fb)

Jenny and I have been camping up there for awhile now. We were going to only stay up there for a few weeks until the weather turned but it's hard to go back to the little Airstream once you've gotten accustomed to the comfy king size. Temperatures in the 20's at night now, did I ever mention that my wife is one tough senorita?


I coaxed most of these boards in tight with a combination of clamps, hammer, and crowbar, and dosed with a liberal sampling of sailor's language, which seemed to help.
A few of them were really bad and I had to employ this method that I borrowed from jdhen's thread here. This was probably the worst one and was bowed about 2 inches out in the middle before I convinced it to stay in line.-

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I as expecting this job to be relatively easy and fun, kind of like putting together tinker toys. Unfortunately only a few went like that, the rest were a struggle. I should be used to things not going quite as planned by now but I am a slow learner and an eternal optimist. Also ran short by a few boards, have to order more.  d*

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Underneath-

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I had a hard time deciding what to do with the beams. I wanted a rough cut rustic look so I didn't want to sand them but they were pretty grungy so I scrubbed and wire brushed them as best I could. Still not satisfied and I may turn my kids loose on a few of them with chains and old screwdrivers to distress them a bit more.


Also managed to get the wood stove installed. I had a hard time making myself cut this hole.-

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Support box plumb and framed in.-

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Back on the roof ( [shocked] ), cut, folded and screwed the box. I think It would take a truck to pull this box down! -

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Jenny lending moral support-

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Flashed and sealed, I hope. I miscalculated somehow and had to trim the ridge cap a little which still bothers me because I made a template on the ground and thought I had everything figured out. Not sure how I got that measurement 2 inches off.  ???

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I'v never lived in a home with a wood stove before and found it totally counter intuitive to light a roaring fire inside. Sure is nice though!  ;D

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It is not in it's permanent resting place, which will be a few feet to the left. I am going to build a hearth, hopefully brick, before I move it to it's final destination.

Well, back to work! As my friend Henry says "That fence ain't gonna build itself!"















Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on November 21, 2010, 08:11:22 AM
Quote
A bit late but still a possible for your re-bar

I have bare steel posts and beams and a table made out of I beams and steel in my UK house

Used a flap disc and sprayed with clear rattle can laquer.

If I were to do it for an exterior piece of steel not sure laquer would work,

Not at all late, I think I'll try the laquer for some indoor re bar railings I'm going to build. Thanks!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on November 21, 2010, 10:36:53 AM
Dug the miscalculation was probably due to the angle ( roof pitch) as things aren't always what they seem in comparison to flat surfaces.  Good job.  Just wondering if you considered any ceiling lights/fans on the ceiling of the T&G?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on November 21, 2010, 12:48:52 PM
Quote
ust wondering if you considered any ceiling lights/fans on the ceiling of the T&G?

No ceiling fan in there. I will probably have one overhead light and just run metal conduit on the inside of one of the beams, I'm hoping I can add enough task lighting under counters (this will be the kitchen) to fill it with enough light.

The T&G will also be in the bathroom and I may use wall lights or just go with the industrial look of conduit.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on November 21, 2010, 01:51:06 PM
Very Nice dug, is it warming the house evenly where you placed it?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on November 21, 2010, 04:04:25 PM
Quote
Very Nice dug, is it warming the house evenly where you placed it?

Thanks! It is now.  ;D  Something looked wrong so I found the manual for the stove and found that whoever had it before placed the fire bricks that were supposed to be on top part of the stove on the bottom.   d*

It wasn't burning right (no air flow) and the ashes had no where to go. Working like a champ now. Ceiling insulation is next, that will make a big difference! Right now there are just open vents on the roof.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Hi Road on November 21, 2010, 04:33:25 PM

Weathered Rebar rail pickets - suggest a diluted muriatic acid solution (a common swimming pool product) wash used with caution will give a light rust finish.  Then clear coat with Penetrol.  The results will yield a durable weathered look.
 
I get a lot of snow stacked up against my shed so I wanted something that was water resistant and strong.  Corrugated metal roofing was my solution.  I used this process on galvanized steel roofing exterior wainscote to get a weathered look and it it came out very nice.

Caution:  Muriatic acid will dissolve the cement in a concrete mix also.  If you want  to expose the aggregate in a smooth concrete finish slab this stuff is what is used.  Use rubber gloves and eye protection.

John

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on November 22, 2010, 12:14:36 PM

It wasn't burning right (no air flow) and the ashes had no where to go. Working like a champ now.

Wonder if that's why they sold it?

The Aspen is a nice stove! (that makes 4that I know of here; myself, oljarhead, 16466 Kbps, and you
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on November 23, 2010, 11:26:56 AM
dug did you use a stucco stop at the bottom of your stucco?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on November 23, 2010, 12:15:28 PM
Quote
dug did you use a stucco stop at the bottom of your stucco?

Yes, I used what I think is called weep screed. Basically an L shaped piece of metal with holes on the bottom L part for drainage.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on January 06, 2011, 01:24:44 PM
It's been some time since I posted so  I figured I better put something up before this thread gets deleted. Many delays, and I've got plenty of excuses to explain them but I'll spare you the lies.  ;)

I will say that we have endured the coldest snap in the weather that we have experienced here so far. Two or three nights it got down to 0 degrees and the highs never broke freezing. Our water supply has been reasonably reliable over the winters and has only frozen up for short periods now and then but this time it froze solid for three days, and let me tell you that you realize real quick just how vital running water is to nearly every aspect of your life. To turn a knob and have water flow is nothing short of pure luxury.

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So of course I've been forced to track down and repair numerous water leaks- still not done.

I know many of you who live in areas that really get cold are probably having a good laugh at our "harsh" NM winter, but I guess its all relative to what you have grown accustomed to.

I have managed to get my ceiling insulated, about the only good thing I can say about this job is that it is done! Lots of blocking for drywall and problems figuring out the venting. Also handling and installing the fiberglass is, at best, not very fun.

Working up high didn't make it any easier-

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blocking around loft rail and closing the vents at roof eve. I used expanding foam to seal and hold the rafter vent in place-

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More blocking for drywall at the gable ends-

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If I had it to do over again I would look real hard at having someone spray in foam. It would have spared me all the hassles with the venting, added extra R-value, and best of all- no dealing with fiberglass! All in all it may not have been a whole lot more expensive.

I got the lumber that I was short on for the loft floor so I'll be doing that next, and then drywall for the ceiling. Yea!  :(



Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on January 06, 2011, 02:59:01 PM
dug, I bet it feels good having the ceiling insulated.
did you use a slap stapler?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on January 06, 2011, 03:09:03 PM
I did use a hammer stapler and it worked out pretty good but was hard to get into some of the tight areas. It is nice having the ceiling done, now I can keep it in the 50's or better when it's freezing outside.  ;D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Minicup28 on January 07, 2011, 08:30:01 AM
Did you use uninsulated black stove pipe all the way to the support box? What is the distance?
I've been debating at what length to swich to insulated pipe to maintain the draft.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: John Raabe on January 07, 2011, 09:14:15 AM
Thanks for the update Dug. Spray foam work is a good thing to farm out. Very tricky to control, and MESSY!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: suburbancowboy on January 07, 2011, 10:45:35 AM
Dug where did you get your through the roof chimney kit?  That is one of the few things that I still need to purchase to complete my cabin this spring.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on January 07, 2011, 05:05:04 PM
I ordered everything online through Northline express and used Simpson Duravent throughout. They were easy to deal with and about as inexpensive as I found. I needed a 3 foot support box for the 12/12 roof pitch.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on April 01, 2011, 07:36:04 PM
Hey dug,
how is the place coming along?
any new updates?

Todd
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on April 02, 2011, 05:15:36 AM
Things are coming along nicely, a bit slow as usual though. I am working on the ceiling drywall at this time.

I have been wanting to post new progress pictures but have been unsuccessfully searching for my cameras memory card for the past three days. Hard to believe that only 6 or 7 years ago that little 50 cent sized piece of plastic cost me almost $400!  [shocked] The exact same 4gb card can be had today for only 20 bucks. 

I suppose I should just order a new one- that would absolutely guarantee my old one will turn up within 10 minutes after the credit card clears.  [waiting]



Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: rniles on April 04, 2011, 06:03:25 PM
Wow - I just read your whole thread and I'm jut amazed. Nice job, beautiful house!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: OlJarhead on April 11, 2011, 04:55:17 AM
Every time I check in I see new progress and rather nice work :)  Keep it up!  I'm envious!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on May 03, 2011, 06:46:03 AM
Found my memory card! Here are a few updates.

Bathroom and hallway are framed-
                                                                                     (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_UroNSkE-1kw/TcAUDCm-PhI/AAAAAAAAAM8/AjxaHs2Xzl8/s640/_DSC0034.jpg)

I built a wall stiffener/shelf to shore up the tall gable end wall a bit (thanks Don P!). Still have to sheath the bottom but I am going to install some can lights first-

                                       (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_UroNSkE-1kw/TcAT5AaxVLI/AAAAAAAAAMw/QGnfbS7PGto/s640/_DSC0029.jpg)

I also got the drywall up on the ceiling, a big sigh of relief to be done with that! The drywall lift is my favorite new tool, I was going to rent one but instead bought one for the same price as a weeks rental. It almost made the job kind of fun....almost!

                                       (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_UroNSkE-1kw/TcATlYgS3CI/AAAAAAAAAMg/B64m5AigATY/s800/_DSC0022.jpg)

I also got the extension so I could do the second row from the bottom. Scary, but no mishaps-

                                       (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_UroNSkE-1kw/TcATNpXzXTI/AAAAAAAAAMc/chum2BJC8LM/s640/_DSC0014.jpg)

It was somewhat of a pain to measure and cut around the beams. I botched some of it a bit, but not too bad-

                                 (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_UroNSkE-1kw/TcAVFVa1FpI/AAAAAAAAANM/PSCzroqG6J0/s640/_DSC0031.jpg)

Done!

                       (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_UroNSkE-1kw/TcAT2uKb8dI/AAAAAAAAAMs/0SB5TRH8YC8/s640/_DSC0030.jpg)

My second favorite new tool, don't know how I lived without one of these for so long!

                                                   (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_UroNSkE-1kw/TcAUAPvU6TI/AAAAAAAAAM4/ee1x0d86cIc/s640/_DSC0033.jpg)

I also got a pretty good start on the electrical layout, most of the wires are run-

                                            (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_UroNSkE-1kw/TcAT7QToELI/AAAAAAAAAM0/EHgdMzNPtE8/s640/_DSC0032.jpg)

Lately I have been working as an apprentice for a local electrician. Fun work and a paid education in a trade which I had been previously clueless about.

Porch deck is mostly done and I added some left over roof metal for accent.

                                     (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_UroNSkE-1kw/TcATr5RzEYI/AAAAAAAAAMk/qTgT5_y04Vw/s640/_DSC0024.jpg)

Also got started on the metal skirting-

                                                         (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_UroNSkE-1kw/TcATsNhCYWI/AAAAAAAAAMo/_GvtQCVTG1c/s640/_DSC0016.jpg)

So that's it for now. A little more electric work to do yet and then I can insulate and sheetrock the walls. I am beginning to believe this place is actually going to get finished, maybe before winter!   :)









Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: waterbug on May 03, 2011, 09:22:00 AM
Looks great Dug! Thanks for sharing the pictures. 

I really like your stucco - it reminds me of the places we used to see driving through northern New Mexico when we visited Taos and Red River.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Sassy on May 03, 2011, 11:16:58 AM
Verrrry Nice!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on May 03, 2011, 01:40:01 PM
everything is looking great dug!
I'm glad to see an update from you..
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: ajbremer on May 04, 2011, 12:19:27 AM
Hi Dug,

I'm about ready to do the same thing you've done, start my 20x30 1 1/2 story plan build here in Oklahoma. I have two small lots and we've cleared them, put a 12x32 Derksen lofted barn cabin building on it, got electric, and tomorrow the septic is supposed to be put in (if the ground is dry enough from all the past rain). Electric cost $500 plus first bill, perc test cost $140.00, septic with 1000 gal tank and 310 feet of lateral line cost $3000, and water meter put in will cost $750. Also, I've chosen to do a stem-wall foundation and I'm not sure yet how much my neighbor who does concrete work will charge me.

Thanks for all your great photos you've put up here! It looks like you've been at it for about a year and a half?

One of my first questions to you is: how did you decipher what minimum materials you needed from the materials list that John has for the 20x30 - to get it dried-in/out of the weather?

A friend of mine is a professional framer and has a crew he works with. He looked at a pic of the 20x30 and said that he and his crew could have it dried-in in three days for $750 a day - man, that's sounds like a good price. (That's just off the top of his head while looking at a pic and sitting at a church pew). I'm a first time builder and I would have to go out and buy all the tools, take time off work to build, and it looks like it would take me a very long time. BUT, if I work a bunch of overtime, make the money to give to the framer dudes, then that seems like the way to go for me.

What I don't understand about reading the material list is that it describes a lot of the wood in 'LF', linear feet? How do I know what lengths to buy and how many 'sticks' and what is needed for minimum dried-in? What I plan to do is to sit with the framer friend with the plans and have him tell me what I'll need for him to dry it in.

Your place looks awesome dude! I have many more questions - as would any first time builder, but I'll get'em to ya later. I'm going to start my build-thread here at countryplans very soon so keep an eye out. Thank you dug.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on May 04, 2011, 05:50:00 AM
Thanks everyone!

ajbremer-

I didn't use the materials list. Before I placed my first materials order I sat down with pen and paper and went through the build from the ground up, starting with the main support beams and working my way up to the roof. For example: Beams- 2 by 12 by 16 ft/ quantity 18, 6 sheets 1/2 in. plywood for spacer material. I then calculated the quantity of floor joists needed, rim joists, blocking, wall studs, etc, etc, etc, until I had the paper on the roof. I drew sketches to help me count all the pieces needed. I believe my first delivery was somewhere in the neighborhood of $5000 to accomplish that.

Quote
A friend of mine is a professional framer and has a crew he works with. He looked at a pic of the 20x30 and said that he and his crew could have it dried-in in three days for $750 a day - man, that's sounds like a good price. (That's just off the top of his head while looking at a pic and sitting at a church pew). I'm a first time builder and I would have to go out and buy all the tools, take time off work to build, and it looks like it would take me a very long time. BUT, if I work a bunch of overtime, make the money to give to the framer dudes, then that seems like the way to go for me.

$2250 sounds like a heck of a deal to me. I took a ridiculous 6 months or so to get in the dry, netting me approximately $2.50 an hour for my efforts. Financially it would have made much more sense to hire it out but it is more of a labor of love for myself, something I always wanted to do.

Looking forward to your upcoming thread!

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: sharbin on June 27, 2011, 06:59:05 AM
Hello dug,

 Nice cottage. I am too building 20x30 1.5 but with 4 dormers and a crawl space built on cement blocks foundation.

 The cottage is now dried-in; soon will finish the wood siding and start working on the inside (well I too have a loft that I already installed the wooden flooring on).

 I read your comment on costing 5 grand to get the cottage dried-in. Does that include the roof framing/sheething/metal?

 It cost me so far around 30K (the roof framing/sheething/metal were contracted out at a cost of 16k, the rest I did it myself), while to get the foundation/flooring/ceiling/wall and loft framing it cost around 7K, and the wood siding/tyvek around 7K.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on June 27, 2011, 06:33:31 PM
sharbin-  The $5000 I stated is a pretty loose figure, I never was too good at holding on to receipts. Also by dried in I meant framing, sheathing, and building paper- no windows, doors, or roofing. Probably it was a little more than 5 grand by the time I add up all the nuts and bolts.

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Native_NM on July 03, 2011, 04:28:31 PM
Dug,

It looks fantastic.  It is classic NM.  I love the pitch, the tin roof, the exposed wood, and the dormer.  Very nice!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on July 04, 2011, 04:41:19 PM
Thanks for the encouraging words Shooter! :)

Especially good to hear because I was hoping it would blend nicely into the New Mexico landscape, it's gratifying to see your vision become tangible.

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on July 31, 2011, 03:12:30 PM
Finished all the rough electrical, procrastinating some of the plumbing work, and moved on to finishing some of the walls.

I decided I might as well fit some lights into my wall stiffener beam-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6MG5IjHv5J8/TjWuXduBh1I/AAAAAAAAARU/IiBuNXneJGk/s800/a01.jpg)

Home runs going out the wall-

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GfKIxW9mEGM/TjWuaipaN1I/AAAAAAAAARc/YBS7sUVp_0s/s800/a02.jpg)

finishing one of the upstair switches-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ICfnCzthFIo/TjWumtCsxgI/AAAAAAAAARo/m1eciHZbYis/s800/a05.jpg)

I spent 13 hours behind the wheel of this torture machine breaking out a 180 ft. ditch in what amounts to concrete, though they call it "dirt" here. Looks like the path of a drunken sailor trying to make his way home, which might be pretty close to the truth as it was brutally hot that day and I wasn't feeling exactly sharp. Took this shot before I had to finish another 29 feet in the morning-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-CTsaMAxEuyo/TjWu7VpFqxI/AAAAAAAAAR4/bIFsdUwLgvo/s800/a10.jpg)

I have to admit that thing was a beast though, cutting a 2 ft. deep swath through that stuff and constantly kicking out rocks the size of cantaloupes. I did have to stop every 10 minutes or so and break out my trusty digging bar to coax the stubborn ones out by hand.

From the other end, half filled in with official safety tape-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ovkr6bBam2Q/TjXkph68Y9I/AAAAAAAAASU/DhAkHktE6FM/s800/ditch.jpg)

Insulated and sheet rocked most of the walls-

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-t57SGwEdG-g/TjWuZrDlOgI/AAAAAAAAARY/Wh8Jb_upIf4/s800/a03.jpg)

Tape and mud is pretty much done and ready for the structo-lite texture finish-

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-I4Rd0t30FTc/TjWu09WdF7I/AAAAAAAAAR0/KtwCJ8Ek1dA/s800/a08.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MKXtIsX9DHs/TjWuxEfGxBI/AAAAAAAAARw/8EDYikQh4y0/s800/a09.jpg)

I started building some of the window sills out of rough sawn pine. I had to mill it out some to make it work, which would have been a lot easier if my table saw would cut 3 & 3/4 inches, I had to turn it the other way and rout out the last 3/4 inch a kerf at a time. I suppose there must be a better way to do it.-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rPrHDFPjf-Q/TjWuj53P0UI/AAAAAAAAARg/sD46PTZd-GA/s800/a06.jpg)

A perfect fit!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zHvMLJlwLxM/TjWuwC9ZucI/AAAAAAAAARs/8KQqQl3Pz2I/s800/a07.jpg)

If anyone has any good ideas as to how to attach the sill as unobtrusively as possible I'm all ears. I was thinking of construction adhesive and finish nails? A friend suggested screwing and then plugging the holes but I'm not a big fan of that, plus I only have 3/4 inch material to work with so I'm not sure that's a possibility anyway.







Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Alasdair on July 31, 2011, 04:34:58 PM
your electric rough in looks very tidy - good job.
on the home straight!

It's too late now but if you had fixed the sills before the drywall you could have hidden the fixings with the drywall. (I hope that makes sense!)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Native_NM on July 31, 2011, 05:02:57 PM
Your place looks better every week.  Don't forget to drop a tracer wire in the trench.  I think finish nails and CA are as good as anything.  Screws might split it anyway. 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on July 31, 2011, 05:12:58 PM
good work dug!!!!
I bet it feels good to be at this point in your build..
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on August 25, 2011, 07:47:57 AM
We've had a few visitors this past week besides the more common deer, elk, skunk, javelina, curs, etc.,etc.

I was surprised to step out my door and see one of my neighbors-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zGY9bDRT1qg/TlZx_yE2HNI/AAAAAAAAATI/ts5C9xUjLG0/s800/horse.jpg)

a nice enough fellow but a bit of a hermit who usually stays at home, his pals tagged along-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MEuVdkp4kMA/TlZxPuwvPaI/AAAAAAAAAS8/cwkimeoPzgE/s800/_DSC0092.jpg)

I wasn't in too big of a hurry to send them home because as you can see I've been neglecting my weed wacking duties.

Late August through mid September is rattlesnake season around here and we have caught 3 of them in the past week on our property, all blacktails. This one was medium sized- about 4 feet, one of them was over 5 feet and fat.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lVz3V0TMGSA/TlZ2qHyj4zI/AAAAAAAAATQ/dISLfBNewvw/s800/blacktail.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bB-pqkSpK30/TlZxHeouDGI/AAAAAAAAAS4/cbkfiDpSovE/s800/_DSC0101.jpg)

I have always been sympathetic of the rattlesnake's plight. Persecuted, hunted and villainized, when the only thing they ask of us is to be left alone and allowed to consume rats and other small varmints. Though I have stumbled upon a few over the years who I caught napping that seemed rather agitated and annoyed to be disturbed, 99% of the time they are considerate enough to give fair warning and allow you to give them a wide berth. I won't tolerate them on my property though, and use my snake grabber to catch and relocate them a comfortably safe distance from any homes or ranch. I realize I may or may not be doing them any favors, a snake expert once told me that they are magnetically oriented, territorial, and don't take well to relocating. I figure at least they have a shot.

I've probably snagged 50 or so buzzworms with that grabber over the years.


Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: John Raabe on August 25, 2011, 07:56:10 AM
Nice critter tool. That fellow seems less than appreciative of your humane care.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on August 27, 2011, 01:42:36 PM
Another hurdle crossed- finally got my plumbing roughed in!

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-29DPqe8S8FQ/TllW_lhFVXI/AAAAAAAAAUM/JYEoOa5rwDQ/s800/A13.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-R5PFE7e4jM0/TllW5xUxzbI/AAAAAAAAATw/oKpYLiAbMeY/s800/A07.jpg)


I won't be winning any neatness awards but I don't think I'll be accused of not using enough glue. God I hate that stuff!

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2BAb8lq0aeA/TllW0vDhz2I/AAAAAAAAATY/OBh1s08LJec/s800/A02.jpg)

I admit I haven't tried any other pex type but the Wirsbo system I used makes for a very confidence inspiring connection-

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-E8BmE4gpijY/TllW0ym0qLI/AAAAAAAAATc/-f7sNvND_jQ/s800/A03.jpg)

You just expand the end of the tube with this tool-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-x3IDPPiINtY/TllW2BBqapI/AAAAAAAAATk/PPiMw3UX3V4/s640/A04.jpg)

-and slip it over the fitting. No mechanical connectors and nearly foolproof, I say nearly because once you expand the tube and remove the tool you have about 3 or 4 seconds to slide it all the way on the fitting. If it starts to cinch down before you get it all the way on you are hosed, because at that point it can not be moved.

Some pictures of the dirty work under the house-

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5HU-nEyCB0I/TllW6iILepI/AAAAAAAAAT0/8PRnTb1trsw/s800/A09.jpg)

possible future toilet-

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HzCHw3zeE4o/TllW9ebT5xI/AAAAAAAAAT8/gpKBAoDCOKs/s800/A10.jpg)

Shower drain and vent, I'm not quite done with this part because I have to fix the wall above that I messed up-

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-P5_LrxgmkZY/TllW79slM4I/AAAAAAAAAT4/kWF6wFeyj5E/s800/A11.jpg)

It took some time and head scratching to get this shower drain connection to come out right and I had a premature celebration in my mind about the ice cold beer I was about to enjoy as I was glueing the last piece. As I was surveying my work I was nearly brought to tears when I realized I put the sanitary tee (the last piece) on upside down!  d* Couldn't figure out how to fix it so I hacked the whole works out in disgust and resolved to try again the next day.

A consolatory beer doesn't go down nearly as smooth as one drunk in victory. As with other trades I have attempted to tackle, I have a newfound respect for plumbers.

The offending piece-

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-fhhGiWhJjrQ/TllW9jClJBI/AAAAAAAAAUA/YNN-uOqU-Y0/s800/A12.jpg)

The hallway with bath entrance, main water supply and water heater will go in the back-

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uzPvKKLdEY0/TllW_Me9g6I/AAAAAAAAAUE/aEixPwCLE84/s800/A14.jpg)

For better or worse I decided to exit the vent pipes out and up. Until we get an indoor toilet I'll probably just leave them as is-

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1bVhbGL_fZo/TllXAMJl8II/AAAAAAAAAUQ/4JpPIIiw8hE/s800/A15.jpg)

Now I can finally finish the insulation, drywall, and plaster! I actually got a start on the plastering a week or two ago when a buddy of mine from the valley came and helped out.. He was more experienced, better, and faster so I did the cleaning and mixing while he did most of the troweling. He did allow me to do some.  ;)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-68gE_IIKQkk/TlloMPi8HEI/AAAAAAAAAUg/PPJZZwb1o5U/s800/B1.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y5udwS6IzbI/TlloM46C54I/AAAAAAAAAUk/E9_Fy4fhS8I/s800/B2.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4T9YhBZsIKM/TlloNIkVahI/AAAAAAAAAUo/99KN3fGJQgI/s800/B3.jpg)

My pick for tool of the month would have to be this-

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CA0EGNv7HhM/TllW3tbNcTI/AAAAAAAAATo/JJLP7Ei1p0Y/s800/A05.jpg)

If you are going to be doing any sheet rocking I think it is an almost must have, it makes cutting around electric boxes and such so much easier and cleaner! From my experience serving as an electrical apprentice I can say that on almost every job I have been on finishing up (installing fixtures, receptacles, etc.) we spend a lot of time rigging, shimming, modifying and swearing in order to fix poorly nailed boxes. Then, because those cover plates don't allow much room for error the sheet rock crew has to come back to tape and mud around half of the boxes! I can't figure out why because they almost all use a rotary cutter.  ??? Even an inexperienced hack like me could get great results by the second or third try. Really easy!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_bAzrDH_5Ps/Tllg-pGjmrI/AAAAAAAAAUY/ZepQARaAh3M/s800/electric%252520box.jpg)

And as long as I'm talking tools, my nearly new Hitachi cordless driver took a dive on me.  :( First a bolt fell out of the chuck and I couldn't get it back in- still worked though, and then the charger stopped working completely. Won't even turn on. I would have rated that tool 5 stars before these mishaps but I'm gonna have to reconsider now. Hopefully I can get it warrantied soon because going back to the corded is not so fun. Especially when my last remaining one that works is this 12 year old arm breaker!

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r_IV6DxfPUQ/TllW5aph6PI/AAAAAAAAATs/A7AuXz6GI3I/s800/A08.jpg)

I'm just rambling now... I realize that, so I'll try to post back soon with some more accomplishments.


 












 





Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on August 27, 2011, 04:01:20 PM
the place is looking excellent dug!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on September 20, 2011, 03:54:55 AM
BE-

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VkrlhzSuwgc/TngBW8wp89I/AAAAAAAAAVk/FEaG7WFWrcg/s800/_DSC0027.jpg)

AE-

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0wJ0pGdSfLA/TngBXwMrkuI/AAAAAAAAAVY/FxcTnSKtW9w/s800/_DSC0034.jpg)

No more extension cord! Lights, switches, and outlets that actually work.
I still have a bunch of circuits to hook up yet but have enough going to make things a little more hospitable.-

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lBBfX1uW9eM/TngBWHKuaaI/AAAAAAAAAVM/S0mWmgV3ihg/s800/_DSC0025.jpg)

I also got a good start on our raised living room floor, this is my 9 & 1/2 inch block production line-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kdytm2C-gNM/TngBM4o4MQI/AAAAAAAAAUw/aasdgTdYLcY/s800/_DSC0007.jpg)

I used these to assemble various lengths of mini walls . Once I made all the cuts it was a pretty fun job, like plugging together tinker toys. A pleasant diversion from plumbing and electrical work. Wood stove has been moved closer to its final destination, though it will be raised to the living room floor level and rest on either a rock or brick hearth. I want to use old brick but have been unsuccessful thus far locating any.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MBaAtNrRJs0/TngBP7XMMqI/AAAAAAAAAU8/BesrB0-qxoc/s800/_DSC0016.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xZNXJgEE5ZE/TngBNIWVZdI/AAAAAAAAAU0/P55IMeRjYm4/s800/_DSC0015.jpg)

I was apprehensive to check out the OSB sheathing which had been tarped, but not stickered (for shame!  :( ) for about a year. It looked a little ratty but amazingly seemed structurally sound.

Jenny taking full advantage of her newly acquired elevated status with our youngest-

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EdhW2VaBSFw/TngBS5-iZwI/AAAAAAAAAVE/-qKpXqx6ktg/s800/_DSC0023.jpg)

Getting cozier every day-

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-w90kGMV7uvw/TngBYX8M0kI/AAAAAAAAAVc/s2cYfXiggRw/s800/_DSC0036.jpg)

I like to leave a few surprises for future remodelers and demolition crews- a bottle of beer inside a wall (with bow of course), and a few various notes and messages including this one I wrote before closing the kitchen wall-

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3j9ky1RnFMM/TngBNC82ElI/AAAAAAAAAU4/1GZ-NnG0Sdw/s800/_DSC0003.jpg)








Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: keyjoy on September 20, 2011, 05:26:04 AM
Love the raised floor in the living room!! What a neat idea. Also like the little notes left we plan to do somewhat the same, we put a piece of metal with our names and the date in the last pier we poured. maybe the great-great grandchildren will find it some day when they demolish the house ?:)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on September 20, 2011, 10:35:09 AM
dug, WoW!
I always look forward to your post.
everything looks Great!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: duncanshannon on September 20, 2011, 10:53:34 AM
looks awesome. nice work!

do you like having the miter saw stand? i keep wanting one... but never pulling the trigger!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: mldrenen on September 20, 2011, 11:06:54 AM
definitely one of most aesthetically pleasing, original, and inspiring builds i've seen on this site.  one of my favorites, and i'm always excited to see the progress you've made.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on September 20, 2011, 11:54:24 AM
Moving right along I see.  Nice work.  You can always tell when the builder is young.  " I will never get old and that raised floor will not be a problem".  Just jabbing a little Dug.  ;)  But in all honesty when you get older you build for the future of "old age" because you know it is not that far off.   ;D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on September 20, 2011, 12:31:50 PM
Quote
You can always tell when the builder is young.  " I will never get old and that raised floor will not be a problem".  Just jabbing a little Dug.    But in all honesty when you get older you build for the future of "old age" because you know it is not that far off.   

I know you're probably right, and age is creeping up on me and manifesting itself in unexpected and annoying parts of my body, however I have a stubborn resolve that if I keep moving (and climb a bunch of stairs) I may be able to delay father time for a bit longer. Always the optimist.  ;)

Quote
do you like having the miter saw stand? i keep wanting one... but never pulling the trigger!

Go buy one, today if you can! I doubt you'll ever regret it. You could probably build a better one but I like the portability of mine, and consider it among my most useful tools.

Thanks mldrenen and everyone else for all the compliments. I can't tell you how gratifying it has been seeing everything starting to materialize, especially when I look back at my old sketches and see that though one dimensional, they are almost exactly what I see standing now. We tried to be flexible and entertained lots of options while building but kept coming back to the original plans, not that they were perfect- far from it, but for some reason it all seemed to fit.

Had I to do it again I would make a few structural changes and add 4 feet to the length, but I can't mull over that because I've got to finish this one first!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on September 20, 2011, 01:45:55 PM
Hmmmm... room to build a hiding spot for a small safe under that floor. Room to hide arms and ammo too, not to mention emergency food and drink stocks.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on September 29, 2011, 10:55:43 AM
Quote
Hmmmm... room to build a hiding spot for a small safe under that floor. Room to hide arms and ammo too, not to mention emergency food and drink stocks.

You're giving away my secrets!  ;)

I never feared fire or even thought much about it until I started building a place on semi remote land, but since then it is near or at the top of my list. Smelled smoke today and sprinted down my drive to see smoke pouring over a hill, trees on fire, and a strong wind blowing right at me a mere 1/4 mile from my house. Called 911 and then ran up the hill to assist my neighbor who was at work trying to contain it, he was burning some brush when the wind kicked up and ignited some dry grass.

No pictures, I spent the last hour or so helping the fire crew rake and shovel hot spots. It's pretty well contained now and I'm somewhat uncomfortably off to work, pulse rate finally below 100.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: duncanshannon on September 29, 2011, 11:16:51 AM
yikes!  scary.  glad everyones ok.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on September 29, 2011, 12:57:06 PM
Glad that fire situation was contained early. I've seen firsthand how quickly it can spread with wind driving it.


We don't burn unless it has rained sufficiently within 24 hours or so, or snow on the ground. I use the "pine needle scrunch" test. If I can walk across the pine needle covered ground in silence it may be safe to burn. If I hear the crunch crunch with every step it's no way.

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on September 29, 2011, 02:30:51 PM
Home from work and everything is still here. Part of me wants to be a little P.O'd at him but I really can't because he has been for the vast majority a level headed and valuable neighbor. It wasn't so smart (he was actually trying to burn away some of the grass) but we've all done some dumb things and though he didn't say I could tell he felt remorse and a bit of shame, which I believe prevented him from calling the fire dept. right away. Glad I did and really glad it was quickly contained, like Don said it's quite terrifying how fast those brush fires move- especially uphill!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on September 29, 2011, 02:51:23 PM
....how fast those brush fires move- especially uphill!


Uphill is a bi*ch!  One of the reasons we/ve spent so much time and effort in thinning brush and trees and in creating several debris free, pine needle free, duff free, bands across our slope. Cabin is at the top of the slope.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on September 29, 2011, 04:10:57 PM
A nice double rainbow to end my day. Pictures never do them justice but here it is-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IUYwqXRCgIw/ToUWbWB9S6I/AAAAAAAAAV0/m-Qup0CNyHw/s800/rainbow.jpg)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on September 30, 2011, 05:55:10 AM
Let me add something to the fire issue. We have developed a relationship with the county Fire Marshall.  This morning I checked in with him and told him I would like to do some burns this weekend and next week if conditions were right. He said there was a no burn order in effect but since we've been good stewards he gave us the okay till the 9th October.  It helps to get to know the officials.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Native_NM on September 30, 2011, 09:51:28 AM
That is a fantastic pic.  You have done a great job on your place.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 04, 2011, 05:17:26 AM
Here is my entry for a potential you tube viral hit-

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mTWgMlhBD2g/TosOSiC79II/AAAAAAAAAWE/nJOpjzjQbsw/s800/_DSC0004.jpg)



Thankfully I didn't come up with a winner and the window was successfully installed without incident. I borrowed a 24 ft, extension ladder from a friend that reached from the ground but it was a lightweight aluminum one that was so flexible I felt like I was on a carnival ride. Jenny thought I was being a wuss so I told her to get up there and see what she thought and she returned to solid ground in full agreement.

This setup felt really solid and was not as sketchy as it may appear. Everything was well secured and little left to chance.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kj3R1D86cV4/TosOSXPealI/AAAAAAAAAWA/ovOg2QTJ1kQ/s800/_DSC0017.jpg)

We were going to put a non operational stained glass window there but after seeing how heat builds up near the ceiling this summer I thought it might be wise to put one in that opens so we could allow it to vent out. I may try to figure out a way to attach (glue?) some stained glass at a later date.

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: hpinson on October 04, 2011, 05:20:57 AM
Wow Dug. That looks just like a New Mexico house should. Congratulations!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Sassy on October 04, 2011, 12:52:42 PM
Love the picture w/the rainbows - the sun on the far away trees & your cabin - it all looks great!


 :D  That picture of you on the ladder - classic!  Glad you got the window up w/no problems  :)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: beckhamk on October 05, 2011, 03:48:20 PM
Dug,

On your dbl hung windows did you use screws through the jams?  If so did you end up removing the plastic side panels on the jams to place your screws?

Thanks,
Kyle
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: metolent on October 05, 2011, 05:31:42 PM
Now, that's some nice ladder work!  I always look forward to checking in the progress of your build Dug....   [cool]
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 05, 2011, 06:49:10 PM
Quote
On your dbl hung windows did you use screws through the jams?  If so did you end up removing the plastic side panels on the jams to place your screws?

Thanks,
Kyle

I just shimmed and put a few finish nails through the wood casing. They are the only windows I have ever installed so take it for what it's worth, but it seemed to work well.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 24, 2011, 03:04:54 PM
Not a whole lot has been accomplished since my last update three weeks prior, I got a job working on a renovation project on an old hotel built in the 30's and its been sucking up most of my time and energy. I've never bent conduit before but after laying out several thousand feet of pipe I'm starting to get the hang of it. Five floors (plus basement) and 15 foot high ceilings assure that I come home dog tired every night.

A little bit gets done here and there though, I have a goal of getting at least something accomplished every day. Lately it has been a lot of mudding.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-cK2n53n_Jjg/TqXzcfRYGtI/AAAAAAAAAWk/sHI-TuaC-e4/s800/_DSC0031.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-92UxrJDb0Jw/TqXzaWu8zqI/AAAAAAAAAWM/QyFisVd_X6k/s800/_DSC0028.jpg)

In some ways I really like this part, a semi-mindless job that involves a bit of artistry- fun to do while cranking up some good music. I'm glad to be nearly over it though, as I've had about enough "fun" for now.

I did get the dormer plastered and finished out the window-

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Jhi4Ub8RXKY/TqXzcijiAXI/AAAAAAAAAWo/fwcuY0HoNTI/s800/_DSC0034.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ka287vSNT2A/TqXzbMNqz3I/AAAAAAAAAWY/rqw94bfn6qE/s800/_DSC0022.jpg)

Meanwhile my 12 year old built, furnished, and electrified his place in one day. He may need some work on his construction techniques but I thought he did well considering he got no help or guidance from me. I did cut the door opening (where he marked) but other than that he did everything.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RnJgD0Kisv8/TqXza73lPtI/AAAAAAAAAWU/cEQqOiXk39I/s800/_DSC0004.jpg)


Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Pine Cone on October 26, 2011, 06:19:53 PM
I may try to figure out a way to attach (glue?) some stained glass at a later date.

A simple way to cheat at a stained glass look is to use cling-on stained glass film like these
http://www.wallpaperforwindows.com/pc/Stained-Glass-Window-Film-c36.htm (http://www.wallpaperforwindows.com/pc/Stained-Glass-Window-Film-c36.htm)

Your place is really looking great these days
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Native_NM on October 26, 2011, 06:28:57 PM
Looks great.  Its great to see your son learning such important skills at an early age.  Regardless of the path he takes, he'll be better off having learned to think, create, and assemble by himself.

 Kudos!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: duncanshannon on October 27, 2011, 03:24:09 AM
Congrats to your kid! 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: OlJarhead on October 27, 2011, 04:28:00 AM
Awesome!  Very cool that your son got to do that!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Sassy on October 28, 2011, 07:01:42 AM
 [cool] that your son was interested in building his own little getaway & went ahead & accomplished it!  Your place is shaping up really nicely - great view from the dormer! 

I can't say that I enjoyed the mudding part that much when we remodeled our house in the valley...  only had to mud the closet in our bedroom at the underground cabin since that was the only concession Glenn would allow for sheetrock  d*
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on October 28, 2011, 09:32:49 AM
Thanks Sassy, and everyone else also.

Young Ben is quite the builder and this is only his latest of many projects, he really gets involved in them and worked from sunup to sundown on this one. I try to interject some advice now and then but he gets ideas in his head and is determined to see them through, I can relate to that.

I have no doubt he'll "get it" as time goes on.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 25, 2011, 10:21:22 AM
Merry Christmas everyone!

It's been awhile but I'm still plugging away, trying hard to juggle work while attempting to get the interior ready (enough anyway) in time to enjoy a little Christmas cheer inside the house.
It was kind of down to the wire and just last night we drove into the forest to cut our tree. It was a great time tromping through a foot of virgin powder, me dragging a 7 and a half foot pinion, my youngest carrying the hand saw, and our faithful dog Spot running point scouting for danger and giving chase to spooked bunnies. I only lacked a lit pipe in my mouth to complete the classic Norman Rockwell scene, and I look forward to the fond future memories of it.

Trying to decide on color, not so easy.
 
(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc1.jpg&hash=c24bdab9c26095b585ba88ebf5cdb11f)

Speaking of color, what do you think of the one we chose for the ceiling?

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc07.jpg&hash=3bb043d488ddbdf819f98ad12d9bb12e)

It will only be a backdrop for the reed cane that we are putting over it, but pretty weird to look at on its own!

Installing the tongue and groove pine flooring, rough side up-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc11.jpg&hash=8c56619b2e50d2c6753007cec1756ffd)

working on the edging and stair noses-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc06.jpg&hash=a395e2e452740ac791c770a956b9cc27)

Sanded and ready for stain and oil-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc05.jpg&hash=21d624b3cc87e6e5c0a3db0b0c7a5bd2)

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc04.jpg&hash=6b5f85e9eb710bad28ae7464c90b6318)

Late night staining project, feeling some pressure with Christmas coming in 4 days. Color is natural walnut-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc03.jpg&hash=ad310d2a8c64646be055f2e5a278ceb7)


The finished result with 3 coats of Bio shield hard oil.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc01.jpg&hash=b38ad64ee86e07e35cb9215e3a5d93b3)

My son said that it looks like it's been burned, and I'll admit that the stain brought out the saw marks a little more than I thought it would but I really like it. Looks like old barn wood.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc02.jpg&hash=652f7cfef1cc9038e3b32072154ca696)


We are enjoying a white Christmas today but I have no pictures. Here are some from a heavy one we got a few weeks ago.

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc08.jpg&hash=3ad03797ac926c6ca6c37a578e0d0470)

Nice snow curl on the porch roof-

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc10.jpg&hash=ffe26c2c27c75bb001d1e4d2ee73e50c)

Hot coco on Christmas eve, a bit risky posting this one as my wife warned me not to take it. We had both had a hard day and no time yet for showers, but I still think she is beautiful!

(https://countryplans.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi821.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz132%2Fdug62%2Fc12.jpg&hash=32b8a4c054ea17a3a650eedd22e6012c)


Other completed tasks include pouring footers and posting up underneath the floor where the wood stove hearth will be, painting loft and kitchen, a little bit of siding and trim work done on the dormer, reed cane installed on ceiling, among many other varied menial jobs. I neglected photos so I will post them soon.

Still tons to do on the interior, how is it that the more jobs I complete the more my "to do" list grows?



Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on December 26, 2011, 07:38:17 AM
nice work dug as always.
I love the pine floor! it does resemble barn wood and the stain really makes the grain and character pop.
the walls really have dimension with the texture you used!
What color are the walls? 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Alan Gage on December 26, 2011, 09:47:01 AM
Looks great Dug. I'm feeling the pressure on getting my interior done too. I did get to spend all Christmas day in the new house though. Unfortunately I was mudding drywall.

Alan
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 26, 2011, 02:12:09 PM
Thanks astidham. I think the main color was called dorset gold by Benjamin Moore, but there were a couple of colors layered over it.

Alan- I can relate to the mudding headaches- as I stated earlier I sort of enjoyed it but by the third touch up coat it was getting tiresome. You are flying on your build though, and the drywall will soon be a distant memory!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: beckhamk on December 27, 2011, 01:47:03 PM
on reply #266 you have a dewalt tool next to the lip of your stair - what kind of tool is that?

BTW:  I love the wall color, floor all looking fantastic! I cant wait till we can get our floors done, along ways to go.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on December 27, 2011, 02:19:18 PM
on reply #266 you have a dewalt tool next to the lip of your stair - what kind of tool is that?

BTW:  I love the wall color, floor all looking fantastic! I cant wait till we can get our floors done, along ways to go.

Without stepping on Dug's toe's   ;)  I think what you are seeing in reply 267 is a biscuit jointer.  If you will notice in the ends of the flooring next to the step small half moon splines or biscuits sticking out of the ends of the flooring.  The tool cuts a semicircle groove to accept the biscuits ( football shape) which joins the flooring to the edge. There is a small kerf cut by the tool in the corresponding piece to be joined.   They actually serve two purposes.  One being elevation alignment and the other to keep the joint tight. 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 27, 2011, 03:47:46 PM
Yep, it's a biscuit joiner. My friend had just bought one and offered to let me use it and I almost declined because I didn't want to complicate things too much, but when he showed me how easy it was to use I took him up on it. Another great tool that you never knew you needed until you tried it, then it becomes a must have!

Glad you like the color- I do too now but it was a bear trying to decide on one, I think I'd sooner get a root canal next time!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Sassy on December 27, 2011, 04:43:35 PM
Love the colors you chose for the walls & the floor looks great!  Very warm & cozy.  And tell your wife she looks good after working all day...  Glenn always wants to post pictures & I threaten him w/his life if he's planning on posting a exceptionally horrid picture of me  :D
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: EaglesSJ on December 31, 2011, 04:07:26 PM
I love that TG stained floor you have down. i may do something similar in the loft of my addition
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on January 02, 2012, 05:34:08 AM
Thanks Eagle. My favorite thing about this floor is that the pine, combined with the contours left by the band saw give it a soft buttery feel that just begs to be touched. A perfect barefoot floor!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: metolent on January 03, 2012, 07:31:10 PM
I agree - that floor is very cool looking!   [cool]
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on March 02, 2012, 06:45:02 AM
I've been working at trying to finish my staircase which got off to a rough start when I discovered a flaw in my rise calculations, top and bottom step were off by about an inch and a half so I re-cut all the stringers (in place) so now they are even.

For the posts and rails I decided to try my hand at some mortise and tenon joinery, which was a lot of fun and went pretty well. I love sharp chisels and making wood shavings!

Here is my first mortise, it worked out fine except that it was not supposed to be centered on the post  d*! Goes to show that it doesn't matter how many times you measure before you cut if you are working with the wrong numbers  :(.
 
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-q2YNcc08NWU/T0re5BQBaJI/AAAAAAAAAbc/cvGnSEVMdJo/s640/rail21.jpg)

I had another post I could have used but it was fairly complicated to build and besides I didn't want to waste the wood so I decided to plug it and leave it for a forever reminder of what a screwup I can be

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-43RegE7OcaE/T0re4KvvYxI/AAAAAAAAAbU/x1XleKDkbew/s800/rail20.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-49UTh3bEA8A/T0re3prsq5I/AAAAAAAAAbM/ZQrGpIuHa0E/s800/rail19.jpg)

I made the mortises by first drilling-

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-P1Ne-2w2qgs/T0revD_-UpI/AAAAAAAAAZ8/dvvJhZHtbOc/s800/rail06.jpg)

and then chiseling out the rest-

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LC3pxLyXn0M/T0rerXG9qxI/AAAAAAAAAZs/vz9oMLgSNZM/s800/rail07.jpg)

Tenons were made using my miter saw, the angled joints complicated things a bit-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NA9hoOuDC7c/T0revcxkWsI/AAAAAAAAAaE/qg4IDowvPns/s800/rail10.jpg)

Working with existing posts that were warped and twisted complicated things further and I had to go to extreme measures to make things fit right, this is a test piece I made for where the handrail meets the top post. Not sure if owning a compound miter saw is a blessing or a curse.  ???

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YcGQemHGS10/T0reyhWAvUI/AAAAAAAAAac/pfyMSHmeP_s/s800/rail14.jpg)

More parts- these are for the bottom rail section-

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PbiTJQQ4ugU/T0reyIHa9nI/AAAAAAAAAaU/qYovp3XPCWY/s800/rail12.jpg) 

Handrail, notched to fit-

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Yp9GbbIIpbE/T0rezULKljI/AAAAAAAAAas/6rAj7BnXSlo/s800/rail15.jpg)

Putting it all together. I managed to get the joints to fit what I felt was snug, but not too tight but had to go back an loosen them up some in order to get the whole piece assembled.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2VrHw8uVg-Q/T0reyzql-AI/AAAAAAAAAak/9efq4Hi_Wj4/s800/rail13.jpg)

It is satisfying to build something that feels solid even before any glue or nails are applied, and after gluing it feels like it is anchored to the earth itself- very solid. I was planning to pin the joints with dowels (still am) but discovered that a 1/2 inch dowel does not take a 1/2 inch drill bit. I'll buy a 7/16th  and see how that works out later. Here is the bottom section complete with handrail-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g30JS7ha2qk/T0re01si_uI/AAAAAAAAAa0/2IgsyKUskZQ/s800/rail16.jpg)

Goof plug in full view-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-15xCy4NyVEY/T0reoZ70S4I/AAAAAAAAAZU/Y0yKHOktnjc/s800/rail05.jpg)

I made the rail for the loft the same way, sticking to my rebar theme for the balusters-

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Ry__Ohecvaw/T0reoi84zsI/AAAAAAAAAZY/edlT5U8OM58/s800/rail04.jpg)

You can also see the ceiling treatment here, partially trimmed out-

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C29pQSRrVeo/T0remikk-9I/AAAAAAAAAY8/rWt8v0Vy2NM/s800/rail01.jpg)

I am going to work on the treads and wall string trim this weekend, treads will be one piece 2 by 12 rough sawn lumber. The final step will be to finish it off with a coat of clear stain followed with a couple of coats of oil.

That's all I've got for now- thanks for looking!











Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 02, 2012, 07:48:11 AM
 [cool]  Dug.  Now that you are a master of handrail I have got about 90 feet to make for the inside/out.  But mine will be tapered round tenons.   I wouldn't worry about the little glitch.  Lord knows I have made a few but you disguised it well that in 100 years you will never be able to tell.  ;)  Are you planning on staining or just poly?
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on March 02, 2012, 08:48:41 AM

Goof plug in full view-


And most people would have never figured what it was.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on March 02, 2012, 10:21:36 AM
Quote
Now that you are a master of handrail I have got about 90 feet to make for the inside/out.

Thanks Redoverfarm but you are too generous in awarding me master status- young apprentice would be more like it but I will say that this has been my most fun and rewarding venture thus far working with wood. Be sure to post photos of your upcoming project!

Quote
Are you planning on staining or just poly?

I am going to use a wipe on natural stain to darken the wood slightly and bring out a bit more of it's rustic character and then use some of the oil (Bio shield) that I have left over from my flooring to finish it off.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on March 02, 2012, 02:01:41 PM
very nice dug, I am interested in trying my hand at mortise and tenon joinery, it is very pleasing to the eye.
also, what is that on the ceiling? it looks great.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on March 02, 2012, 02:08:29 PM
thanks astidham. the ceiling is covered with bamboo/ reed cane that you can buy in rolls at building supplies, usually intended for fencing and such.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MushCreek on March 03, 2012, 03:10:13 AM
Dug- I know how you feel about the slip-up. In toolmaking, we call that 'exactly wrong'. There's nothing worse than carefully machining something with .0001" of the WRONG dimension! Beautiful work on the railings; the patch is a good reminder, and gives you a story to tell.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: MountainDon on March 03, 2012, 07:44:41 AM
When making aluminum chassis for electronic equipment things like a hole in the wrong spot became ventilation. 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Bob S. on March 03, 2012, 09:41:32 AM
  In the late 60's I worked for Boeing at Boeing field as a flight test mechanic on serial #3 737.
  One night I observed a couple of guys under the aircraft scratching ther heads and trying to figure out to do about a mistake they had made.
  Seams they had drilled a hole at the wrong place.
  I went by later to see that drain hole was stenciled next to the hole.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Alan Gage on March 03, 2012, 04:24:46 PM
That looks real nice, Dug. And I like the ceiling from what I can see in the pictures. How is it sold and how is it installed? Is it sold in rigid or flexible sections?

Alan
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on March 04, 2012, 05:15:29 AM
Quote
That looks real nice, Dug. And I like the ceiling from what I can see in the pictures. How is it sold and how is it installed? Is it sold in rigid or flexible sections?

Alan

It is flexible (rolled) and usually sold in 6 by 16 ft. sections, like this-

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-J0L087hN8Gg/T1N2n3WZjgI/AAAAAAAAAbs/WG9Dr6g63VQ/s800/reed_roll1.jpg)

I installed it using 2 inch staples and then screwed down trim boards where the seams meet. While looking for an image I discovered that you can build a house out of the stuff...apparantly.  ???

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tYgiyZstO5g/T1N2oeUnkYI/AAAAAAAAAb0/bf5liLXI0tQ/s800/reed%2520house.jpg)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: oifmarine on March 04, 2012, 08:29:28 AM
Awesome railing!!! [cool]
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Sassy on March 04, 2012, 05:38:07 PM
It all looks great, Dug! 
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: eclipse on March 05, 2012, 04:44:02 PM
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your entire thread. I have gotten some really good ideas for the retirement house I hope to build in a few years. I really hope to incorporate the rebar in my railings.

I like the way the stain on your floor turned out. It reminds me of the floor in an old hardware store that I used to go into in the 60's as a young boy in Calico Rock Arkansas. Those are some great memories and that is meant as a compliment.

Looking forward to more of your posts.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: CoastalAlabama on April 20, 2012, 11:50:03 AM
Beautiful homeplace, Dug!!  I've spent the last couple hours in awe reading through your wonderful thread .... Congrats on a job well done!

I'm inspired.... what beautiful uses you found for rebar and bamboo fencing!  Both look awesome in your home.

I was a little scared of the electric blue color as an exterior trim color (we're all about boring white and neutrals my way), but it looks awesome!!  I especially love the interior gold color.

I was curious.....will there be bedrooms in the home for the boys, or is that the purpose of the loft (for sleeping)?  I can't stand being in my bedroom during the daytime, and I can't watch TV before bed (makes me restless), so I am literally only in my bedroom for 7 hours in the dark with my eyes closed the entire time.  lol  Seems like such a waste of a big room.  I like the idea of sleeping in a loft that is open like yours.  We're building again in 4 or 5 years and will be downsizing.  I'm thinking a big living area with kitchen/living/office areas, one big bathroom with 2 toilet rooms instead of the separate master and hall baths, and much smaller spaces devoted to sleeping.
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: BADB0Y on May 08, 2012, 09:20:47 AM
This has become one of my favorite threads!
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on May 21, 2012, 03:21:59 AM
I've been working way too much lately (NOT on the house) and have been mostly offline. Looking forward to catching up on all the build threads when I get home tonight.   :)
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: astidham on November 29, 2012, 08:59:57 PM
dug, How is life treating you?
would love to hear an update, hope all is well for you.

Todd
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 19, 2012, 01:43:16 PM
Well I'll admit it's been quite some hiatus since I've last updated here and was almost afraid my thread may have disappeared into oblivion, but lo and behold here it is still waiting patiently.  ::)  Anyway I can't say that a ton has been accomplished in the last however-many months but I do have something to show for my struggles other than just surviving, and also I've been having a great time getting seriously addicted to mountain biking again and recently went on a rafting trip through half of the Grand Canyon, which was unbelievable!

So to anyone interested out there thinking "I knew they shouldn't have moved in before they were finished!", you're probably right but even with the lack of kitchen it's pretty cozy in here now and we are looking forward to a nice Christmas!

I got the stairway pretty much complete, so 1 more thing checked off the list!

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_UspuMpnovg/UNIeO7vanaI/AAAAAAAAAis/1z0Jvs1547k/s800/xo1.jpg)

About a million years ago in this thread I was saying how we had decided to go with rough sawn treads so that's what we did and I like it quite a bit, it has a fair amount of traction for wood and has held up well so far. Some of the lumber I got was almost black on one side and I used those for the risers for contrast.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5Hv1koWBK5w/UNH_PtCY7cI/AAAAAAAAAhw/a27q6W1kINg/s800/x10.jpg)

I also got our hearth for the wood stove built. We wanted to use old brick, and found some that was really old salvaged from a recent renovation on a historic museum nearby-

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LFSYYQhqizs/UNH_IlsOnyI/AAAAAAAAAg0/xrappDk4qf8/s800/x01.jpg)

They were eroded and somewhat irregular, which gives them the desired rustic flavor but perhaps not the best choice for someone like myself who isn't exactly a natural mason and tends to panic over things that are permanent when dry. Here is the start, string lines aplenty!

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XXCpjN8p6QQ/UNH_IE_TN1I/AAAAAAAAAgo/76OutyvjfwI/s800/x02.jpg)

And finished. Almost. Still have to top it off with a chunk of flagstone (still looking for the right piece) and finish it with some linseed oil. I was going to make it a couple courses higher but other than getting tired of laying brick I was also getting concerned about the weight, which I estimate to be at least 1,500 lbs. No pictures to prove it but I guarantee it is well supported underneath. All that weight centered in the room seems to have added a certain tautness to the floor and walls somehow.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5XAC6QTKisU/UNH_IHQZK9I/AAAAAAAAAgs/R2aWC_zqiH4/s800/x03.jpg)

And tiled, 3/4 plywood and cement board went down first-

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Gw-fb92AXgc/UNH_Kf4oYPI/AAAAAAAAAhA/1OfQWeGYSGY/s800/x05.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1h3hfPHBn1M/UNH_LDgJ7eI/AAAAAAAAAhI/hcx1dpoeQJc/s800/x04.jpg)

And finally the wood stove moves to it's final resting place! Stove pipe offset gives it a Dr. Seuss look that Jenny likes a lot, I kind of like it too.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1pcfTBxCYRA/UNH_Ohwt-OI/AAAAAAAAAhg/4VDlozgWJ-0/s800/x07.jpg)

How it will look from entrance, the rest of the floor (wood) is going in next. Yea!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bkIe0PjnKxU/UNH_OFG1_JI/AAAAAAAAAhY/KjttR4XUf2U/s800/x08.jpg)

And finally, kick back time- shamefully undone kitchen in backround.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1ZWnc8l0ylw/UNH_L1MqeNI/AAAAAAAAAhQ/ABBzihZmEfA/s800/x06.jpg)

Even with undone floor insulation the house stays very cozy and the little Vermont Castings stove heats it easily, which I had been a little worried about. I got a few other things done outside but pics will have to wait till next time, which I hope won't be long, and now I'm going to check on a few threads I haven't seen in awhile.

Thanks for looking!

Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: UK4X4 on December 19, 2012, 06:04:22 PM
Love the wooden floor, the saw marks and the stain makes it beautifull.

So what happened to the other 2 1/2 pallets of bricks ?

or is it a work in progress ?

I always found laying the bricks was relatively easy- but levelling and finishing was more dificult

cleaning up- getting rid of excess all an art form- especially on multiday projects

each " bricky" in the UK has his own methods

adding washing up liquid to make the cement stickier- gloopier
horse hair brushes for clean up
Knowing when to clean up, wipe of brush off or chisel off !

I want a "brick" hearth in my cabin - but I'm still looking at solutions, need to check into local architectural recyclers and the natural rock falls above me on the mountain






Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: Alan Gage on December 22, 2012, 07:52:33 AM
The stairs look great and good job on the hearth!

It's been about a year since I moved in and, like you, not much has happened since then. Part monetary, part laziness, part needing to take a break.

Alan
Title: Re: dug & Jenny's 20 by 30 1 and 1/2 story
Post by: dug on December 23, 2012, 06:10:00 AM
Quote
So what happened to the other 2 1/2 pallets of bricks ?

or is it a work in progress ?


I'm not laying any more bricks inside, but I'm sure I'll find a good use for them somewhere!
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