concrete floor finishing

[CWhite]

New question....
We're planning on acid etching the concrete as our finished floor in the house.  I plan on taping off a pattern to resemble large slabs of stone.   It's getting close to doing it, and I have done a lot of reading on the method we plan on using, but wanted to find out if anyone here has personal experience with it. 
They sell stains at Home Depot that are both transparent or solid colors, but I will search for a better color palette to choose from than they have to offer.
Anyone have suggestions or helpful hints? 
Thanks, Christina

[williet]

I don't know much about it, Christina, but what I've seen is really pretty. I'm sure with your artistic skills, it'll be great.

A man I worked with a couple of years ago was a builder on the side and he loved it. He also recommended concrete as a counter top. I have talked to a cousin who did a little of it and he said to be sure and seal it....others have said not to because it can cause more sweating??

[CWhite]

I've done a lot of reading about it.  I'm sure this is the way we're going to go, but I would like to hear a 1st hand account of someone's personal experience doing it themselves just for some clarity. 

The floors have to be done before I pick out paint, because it has to match.  I'm doing the floor in grass green.  See, weird, but I really believe it will look terrific. 

I hope to do the porches too, but a different color someday.  Inside comes first. 

Glad to hear one successful account so far. 
Christina

[Sassy]

We have some friends who built a strawbale house & used the "acid etching" their cement floors.  They used a beautiful teal color in their kitchen - the color has darker & lighter highlights.  They really like it.  I've read that they do  seal it - especially in high traffic areas.

At a mall in Fresno where Glenn did some work, the people who did the cement floors finished them with a polyurethane after the acid etch - oil based. 

[mvk]

Christine

Hope you take lots of pic's, I have an interest in that, floors, counter tops, and I have thought of it for window sills if I end up with thick walls, good for flower pots I would think. I'm a little worried about sealing a counter top and then putting food on it though.

Yeah I agree with Willet, that if you do it, it will be special, can't wait to see!

Mike

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

I'm looking forward to your results... I wish I could help with advice, but don't know anyone personally who's done this.  It's something we thought about combining with a radiant solar floor sometime in the future.  How do you etch the design?... I always assumed it was done when the concrete was still wet.

[Redoverfarm]

MVK Here is a site for countertops. 

http://www.concreteexchange.com/products_books.jsp

[jwv]

I stained our floors (I did the previous house too, come to think of it).  I didn't tape off patterns, just didn't seem to work for our space but would like to try that someday.  I happened on a deal at our local Habistore when they had about 5-1 gallon jugs with varying amounts of stain left for $5/jug.  What a deal and all in colors that would work in our house.  I think I had weathered bronze, bronze patina (teal), coffee and walnut.  I used them all in varying amts and came out with a great floor, it always gets compliments.  I did seal part of it but I like the mat look in some of the rooms so haven't sealed them yet.  I also accented the cracks for a more stone-like look and added some accents of acrylic gold paint which I sealed over.  That looks pretty cool.

Here's a website from which I got some ideas http://fauxrealfloors.com/ Beautiful work.
I did use her recommendations for sealer. http://www.gayegoodman.com/recommends.html   Most of my stain was Lithochrome.

Here's a photo
It looks a little darker than the actual floor. the dog looks realistic tho, huh?

Let me know if you have other questions.

Judy

[NM_Shooter]

I had Faux Real Floors do the floors in my addition, and in retrospect I should have done them myself.  I had serious issues with the professionalism of Gaye and her staff, and the amount of work to do this is trivial compared to the amount they charge. 

I initially bought her video and "book" to consider doing it myself, but I think her book scared me off when it should not have.  Here are some very basic tips:

1)  Slab must be clean and free of any oil, mastic, pine tar, anything.  If they "cured" your slab with a spray on finish, don't even try to stain.

2)  Before staining, clean the heck out of the floor.  I thought that then were going to buff my floor with a power buffer and cleaning solution, but they did not.  Anyway, mask the walls with plastic and ONLY red masking tape at the base.  Clean and vacuum. 

3)  Find some areas that you could run tests on.  I had some spots that were going to be under cabinets and under the fireplace.  My first warning about Faux Real should have been when Gaye put the test stain down, came back the next day, and said "Hmmmm... I've never seen that happen before".  Not a good thing to hear from someone who you are paying $6 a square foot.

4)  Once masked and cleaned, they used garden sprayers to spray the stain down.  Let puddles form, put some on heavier than others, and use different colors.  I have heard that green and blue need to go down first, then browns afterwards or the more vibrant colors will never stick.  BTW.. use a very good respirator mask.  Lots of ventilation too.

5)  It is going to look like hell when it dries.  don't panic.

6)  You may need to mop, let dry, and put on a second coat.

7)  Mop with water multiple times to remove residue, let dry for a couple of days.

  Put down an acrylic sealer of your choice. 

9)  come back and fill the cracks in the slab with epoxy cement crack filler.  Clean as you go to keep the excess off the floor.

10)  Once the filler is dry, use acrylic artists paints to paint the cracks.  Believe it or not, a contrasting color looks pretty nice.  Almost like veined granite.

11)  Once all dry, cover everything with two coats of a good no-strip wax.  On and On is a good choice for a high shine. 

12)  Beware... this is actually a fairly fragile finish.  don't put down tape after done, or it will peel the finish, color and all off the concrete.  Also watch out for shoes with exposed nails, rocks stuck in the bottom of shoes, or even sand tracked in.  It will wear it down or scratch it bad.  You can paint over it with acrylic, but it is a pain to do.  keep lots of fresh On and On over the top esp. in high traffic areas.

[williet]

So,
How long have you lived on this floor and how bad is the wear? If it's so fragile, do you think it' a good finish for a living area? Is it easily repaired and do the repairs show up?

[firefox]

Wow Judy! I can't believe how well you did that dog.
Bruce

[firefox]

On another note. It seems I remember that you can mix dye in with the concrete
before you pour the floor. Yes it would be all one color, but then you might be able to add
Lines using the acid etch method, or alternatively trowl in lines to make a tile effect. I am thinking that this might be a more durable floor,
with less maintenance. Anyone hear of this being done?
Bruce

[firefox]

Ok, one more crazy idea. I am wondering if there is some kind of etching fluid that can have its color makeup changed by shooting a variable power laser on it? If this were true
Then it might be feasable to photo etch the concrete. Then Judy could really have a
permanent picture of her splendid dog on the floor.
Anyway, just an idea.
Bruce

[NM_Shooter]

So,
How long have you lived on this floor and how bad is the wear? If it's so fragile, do you think it' a good finish for a living area? Is it easily repaired and do the repairs show up?

A lot of it depends on the quality of the concrete too.  the top of concrete tends to flake off over time (I think it is called spallation or something similar) and the quality of the concrete makes a difference.  Low psi and poor slump (very wet when poured) are a bad combination. 

I've been on this floor for two years now, and for the most part it is holding up ok.  I had some floor damage this past Christmas when a guest (a lady I think) had a brad out her heel, and it carved up the floor pretty well.  The acid stain does not penetrate very much.

"Luckily", these floors tend to hide damage pretty well.  By nature they are varied in color and contrast.

One other thing... don't put any plastic down on the floor for long.  Some plastics (like the rubber mats under place rugs) can bond to the acrylic and when you pick them up they pull the floor finish off with them. 

[Okie_Bob]

Mark Dean's BBQ in Azle, TX floor is done this way. Believe he mixed stain with the concrete before pouring. Once dry they took a skillsaw and set the depth of cut to about 1/8" deep and cut squares all over the floor so it resembles square tile. I know this floor has been down for over 10 years and it looks as good today as the day it was finished. And, being a public resturant, it gets a LOT of heave wear and I can't see any evidence it is not going to last a lifetime. And I know Mark, he probably never waxes it, just has his crew mop it once in awhile if it gets too dirty!
Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin to it.
Okie Bob

[jwv]

Shooter's description of the process is very accurate.  Especially the part about it looking like hell.  You will want to cry during the time the stain is drying but don't despair, once it's cleaned it will be beautiful.

I would say that this is not a finish for people who want it to look "exactly" like an image they might have in their mind or a sample.  Unless you do this a lot that would be very difficult.  Best for those with an artistic soul.

We lived in the previous home with stained concrete for 5 years and were not disappointed with the wear. And that's with the dog and 2 young boys who did everything from ride  their scooter(they found out that head on concrete-not so fun), cars, trucks, boots, sand and rocks.  But again, I like a more mat finish and think that the wear and tear adds patina.  I have never had the stain come up but ours was a new slab.

Another idea is to put different things down on the floor like leaves to act as a stencil.  Also in the DVD "Building With Awareness" he shows how he did his floor.  After staining, he put different materials on it, such as straw, old carpet, plastic, so that the stain dried at varying rates so the color variation was different.

Judy
Thanks for the compliments to the dog, I'll pass them on.

[CWhite]

Thanks so much for all of the comments.  I'm actually getting excited about doing it myself now. 
I had a professional quote me a very reasonable price of $1.50 per foot including materials, and told me everything in stages that they would do, except for me taping off the grid work pattern.  That was going to cost me $1425.00.  Doing it myself will of course cost me a fraction of that. 

He did make it sound complicated, iffy and hard.  Hearing personal accounts of actual hands-on experiences increases  my self confidence to do it myself.   My husband and I are both artists.  I think we can handle it, and our expectations are not perfect, exact colors and lines.  A variation of shade and color will be good.

I will take lots of pictures to show and tell my experiences soon.  This is the next step after the sheet rock gets painted, and we start that this coming weekend I hope.
Christina

[firefox]

Thanks Bob,
   I think that is the way I will go. Do you remember what size the cuts made the "tiles"
Large, medeum, small? Also, do you remember the color of the stain? One more thing,
did it look like he used a sealer?
Thanks,
Bruce

[glenn kangiser]

Professionals, in support of themselves, which is not bad, must many times paint a simple task as being complicated.  If mere mortals can do it, gasp.....we'll be out of work.

The secrecy is what keeps costs high.  A little study of the details, then grab it and do it while restudying soon will make you sufficiently good to pass your own inspections- or maybe even near pro.

[glenn kangiser]

Mark Dean's BBQ in Azle, TX floor is done this way.

being a public resturant, it gets a LOT of heave wear and I can't see any evidence it is not going to last a lifetime.
Okie Bob

Probably something they ate-- or maybe too many beers with the Bar-B-Q , BoB.  If the finish can take all of that stomach acid and misc. chunks, it must be good.

Thanks to Sassy for pointing this out to me -- I was rushing through the forum and missed it.  Thanks, BoB.

[CWhite]

I completely understand the "mystery component" of contracted labor.  I also believe prices quoted to me were more than reasonable, as all others had more than doubled that quote.  The fact remains, humbly, that I simply can't afford it.  Time, I will have.  Money, not so much. 

On another note,  I do like the look of tiles, and that look can be achieved with the shallow saw cuts into the concrete.  The method I will use of taping off a grid work to use as a negative space where the stain will hopefully not occupy, will give it that look without the dirt catching crevices that make it difficult to keep clean.  I live on a farm with dogs in and out and the ocassional chicken loose in the house, and large macaw in a cage that really makes a mess.  My shoes alone will be a challenge to clean up after with me doing my barn chores each day. 

I want the floor to be as functional as possible...ie: smooth concrete...mopable.   One of those swiffer things would sob madly here. 

I didn't have the option of adding stain to the gigantic concrete trucks before they poured the elevated slab.  I don't think I would have liked the uniform color of that as much.

In a few weeks, I'll know if my own skills will satisfy me in this endeavor. 
Christina

[jwv]

You can do it and it will be beautiful.  Here's another couple who did something very similar to your plan.
http://www.ourcoolhouse.com/images/construction/acidetch.htm

My motto has always been "I have more time than money (or good sense)"

Enjoy the process.

Judy

[NM_Shooter]

Mixing stain in with the pour results in a very mono-chromatic slab.  Very uniform... too much so for my taste.  I wanted veining and swirls and shade differences. 

Acid stain after the slab has cured is very much a surface treatement at best.  Even a minor scratch will show the original color of the slab.  But in all honesty, it sort of blends in.

I agree that if you have something in mind, that you exactly want, this is probably not the technique for you.  This is like pushing a tire down a hill and letting it roll.  You have some influence over where it is going, but a lot of this is up to forces you don't have influence over.  If you can go with the flow, you'll probably like it!

-f-

[Sassy]

Great link, Judy!

NM Shooter, after paying that much a square foot, I would think that the expectations would be pretty high - I know mine would.  With our floors we used a basically adobe/cob floor that cost us a few pennies & our labor.  We experimented with different "recipes" - the floors with just the linseed oil on it have hardened & are quite sturdy but soft & hold up well - I put concrete cure & seal over them about once a month - like a wax - makes them shiny & protects them.  Our stairs were needing repairs frequently until we put 3 layers of linseed oil on them - now it doesn't matter if we have leaks from the greenhouse in the uphill patio or if there's a lot of traffic, they haven't had to be repaired for about a year now.  I was getting pretty tired of fixing them...  our floor in the 1st part of the cabin we built is too soft - didn't put linseed oil on it until after I'd already sealed it a few times with the concrete cure & seal - I do not like that floor - there's constantly little chips off the surface that I have to replaster & the color doesn't always match & it's hard to get it to adhere real well.  And I can't scrub it very good, so we will eventually have to replace or do something different with it.  But again, it is just labor.  And experimental... 

Doing your own acid etching on the cement will be an experiment - and I'm sure will look really nice.  Judy's home is very nice - they did a wonderful job on it. 

[tc-vt]

Exposed aggregate is another way to do a finished concrete floor.

Tom