Car repair blues (aggravations?)

[NM_Shooter]

My daughter's '97 4Runner is in serious need of maintenance / repair.  Getting quotes around town has my blood boiling.  I may end up doing the work myself, as much as I hate it.  I'll save enough in labor costs to buy two or three nice toys.

On top of $90 to $110 per hour shop time, they really gouge on parts cost.  A steering rack that I can buy at the parts store for $305 will cost me $636 at the garage.  Timing belt / water pump kit that I can buy for $225 is $529.  Ball joints that I buy for $44 are $108. 

Actually, one of the garages told me that to swap out the timing belt, they charge $134 per hour!!!!!  That made me mad, as 90% of the work consists of unbolting all the accessories on the front of the truck. 

It is tough enough paying these grease monkeys more per hour than I do my doctor.  But paying 100% ++ margin on parts is extortion.

[NM_Shooter]

I suspect that this is as it is because the shops are full of old cars being fixed, as folks are trying to make their old vehicles run longer rather than buy new during tough times.

[peternap]

I don't know what it's like there, but here there are lots of mechanics that are out of work and set up shade tree shops.

[Canvasman]

I have a 2003 4runner. Independent, former Toyota dealer mechanic charged me $450.00 to replace belt w/waterpump. Stealership wanted $900.00 for same job.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/
You can try the link to see if you can get help or suggestions on where to find a reasonable mechanic.

[peternap]

My wife has a Land Rover. I used to not work on it because she's so picky. I do now.
There is a special place in Hell for Land Rover Mechanics!

Some day I'll tell you about the $700.00 fuse.

[NM_Shooter]

Thinking this morning about the quote I picked up yesterday.

To replace the lower ball joints and steering rack :

My component cost if I go to Autozone : $393.00

Replacement cost as quoted by the highly rated "Angie's List" shop Hilltop Tire and Automotive : $1224

$831 for 4 hours of work. 

[Squirl]

I have purchased things and had mechanics only do what I couldn't and gave them the part.  They don't like it, but they usually will do it.  I found that out when I was complaining about the cost of a part once and the mechanic said, "If you can have it delivered to me the same day, I will use it."  I realized same day delivery by courier was usually built into the cost of some parts. A few hundred dollars extra is a ripoff.

Imagine what the quote would be if your daughter called.

I do not usually go to mechanics for what I can do myself.  I like knowing my vehicle. Also if it breaks, I have no one to blame but myself.

[Gary O]

'I do not usually go to mechanics for what I can do myself.  I like knowing my vehicle. Also if it breaks, I have no one to blame but myself'

You're a better man than I, Squirl. I quit tinkering on my vehicle ever since I started depending on it for transportation to work and points/plugs turned into electrical gizmos.....other than filter/fluid changes.....little things.
Had some friends that built their own planes, and even flew them back to OshKosh, but they told me that first flight was a ten on the pucker scale....that'd be me after fiddlin' with my brakes.......I live on a hill.

A good independent mechanic is a wonderful find, but most places I've learned to just back in.......after getting out of the vehicle.

[NM_Shooter]

My stubborness on this has reached a head.  I decided to do the ball joints and tie rods myself rather than pay $200 an hour to a shop.  I already have the tools... impact hammer with forks, an impact wrench, compressor, multiple torque wrenches and a should-have-known-better temperment. 

I'm 2.5 hours in, and have both lower ball joints off, both tie rod ends off, and have one new lower ball joint already installed and torqued to spec.  My other parts come in tomorrow morning at 0730.  I should be done by 10 and on my way to the alignment shop. 

My oldest daughter has asked to help.  I put her to work. 

Next weekend I am doing the timing belt.  Weekend after that I am buying a new rifle    (I know Just the one!)

[hpinson]

Do you know about the Yotatech forums? They are super helpful if you run into problems.

http://www.yotatech.com/f60/

[peternap]

My stubborness on this has reached a head.  I decided to do the ball joints and tie rods myself rather than pay $200 an hour to a shop.  I already have the tools... impact hammer with forks, an impact wrench, compressor, multiple torque wrenches and a should-have-known-better temperment. 

I'm 2.5 hours in, and have both lower ball joints off, both tie rod ends off, and have one new lower ball joint already installed and torqued to spec.  My other parts come in tomorrow morning at 0730.  I should be done by 10 and on my way to the alignment shop. 

My oldest daughter has asked to help.  I put her to work. 

Next weekend I am doing the timing belt.  Weekend after that I am buying a new rifle    (I know Just the one!)

Good for you on all counts (especially the rifle )
I don't mind ball joints or tie rod ends, I can do a brake job in my sleep or U joints or the occasional rear end....but I hate timing belts and I take my hat off to you for that.

[NM_Shooter]

I'm a little nervous about the timing belt, as I have to break loose and re-torque the crank nut at 217 ftlbs.  I'm having to make a special wrench to allow me to hold the crank pulley to torque it down.  I'm not sure I can generate 217 ftlbs on an 18 in handle while holding a 4' slab of 1/4" x 4" bar stock.  Maybe I should sell tickets for folks to watch. 

Time for a cheater pipe I guess.

I've had my eye on a Savage .22lr BSEV for quite awhile.  Looks like it would make a heck of a silhouette gun. 

[MushCreek]

I have a 2002 Ford van that was running lousy while up in SC. After going to several small, inexpensive shops, I brought it to Ford. One small shop even said there was nothing wrong with it! Ford dinged me almost $1000, but it does run perfectly now. I'll tackle pretty much anything that doesn't involve a modern engine and computers. Can someone explain why my Ford has 8 coils, where one used to do the trick? 8 coils at $100 a pop (from Ford). I've replaced 3 so far, and the mechanic told me to plan on gradually replacing all of them. $800 in coils?! When I replace this van in a couple years, look for me to get an old truck, pre-computer.

I find the $100/hr to be amazing. I'm a tool maker by trade, and most shops around here are in the $50-$60 range. We use some very expensive CNC equipment, and it takes 4 years of schooling to become an Journeyman, considered a rank greenhorn in the trade! I'll put my skills up against any mechanic in terms of knowledge required.

[Redoverfarm]

My stubborness on this has reached a head.  I decided to do the ball joints and tie rods myself rather than pay $200 an hour to a shop.  I already have the tools... impact hammer with forks, an impact wrench, compressor, multiple torque wrenches and a should-have-known-better temperment. 

I'm 2.5 hours in, and have both lower ball joints off, both tie rod ends off, and have one new lower ball joint already installed and torqued to spec.  My other parts come in tomorrow morning at 0730.  I should be done by 10 and on my way to the alignment shop. 

My oldest daughter has asked to help.  I put her to work.



Next weekend I am doing the timing belt.  Weekend after that I am buying a new rifle    (I know Just the one!)

Just wondering if that was a coincidence that you are planning on buying a rifle while working on your truck.  Just exactly where are you going to place the first shot at on your truck.      I assume that you are working on your powerstroke.

[NM_Shooter]

No, this our old '97 4Runner.  Aside from these issues, the truck's engine and tranny run great, and the body is straight.  Had Maaco spray it 2 years ago, and it looks good.

Ball joints and tie rod ends were worn out.  I decided to wait on the steering column to see if it really is leaking.  Doing the timing belt and water pump next weekend, and just found a shop that will replace the rear bearings and axle seals for $550.  I'm going to let them do that. Just drove the truck to the Firestone shop for an alignment.  Even with the toe-in off, it drives better.

Looks like I will be out $1000 instead of $2700 to $3200 that the quotes were indicating. 

I can't decide if I want a new fly rod or a new gun as a reward for the labor.  I'm leaning towards the gun but will ponder on this for a week or so. 

[Don_P]

After three weeks of diving under old trucks I've got the new old dodge turning right when I turn right. I learned that Dodge used a counterclockwise Saginaw gearbox for 4 year models... so of course my old donor in the weeds was one of those years  . I bought from the ragjoint through the pump at the junkyard for $170 so I guess the materials were cheap. As for the time, well, I know that part of the truck far better than I ever wanted to  .

Meanwhile the plastic radiator in the Honda let go. That was $180 and I got it swapped out this afternoon. That was a no brainer.

The newer stuff is more reliable but there is far less I feel comfortable shade treeing.

[MountainDon]

I can scarcely see anything on the engine in our '06 Honda. The idler for the serpentine fan, etc belt went bad in late Sept. I paid to have it done... about $250 for the arm and a new belt. It was worth it to me; I left it at the shop while I spent some time at the cabin.

[MushCreek]

I can't decide if I want a new fly rod or a new gun as a reward for the labor.  I'm leaning towards the gun but will ponder on this for a week or so.

All else being equal, the rifle will be more effective than the fly rod should you have to take the truck back to the mechanic.......

[peternap]

All else being equal, the rifle will be more effective than the fly rod should you have to take the truck back to the mechanic.......

I think he should get both!

[MikeC]

If a replaced part fails two weeks after install. who should pay for:

New part?
Labor to replace?

[fishing_guy]

The repair shop by my house used to stand by their parts and labor for 90 days.  I had a water pump go out on an Astro van we had.  I replaced it under my shade tree so to speak.  2 weeks later, same thing so I bit the bullet and took it to the shop.  They put on a new one.  3 weeks later that one failed also.  Brought the car back to them.  Replaced it without question or charge.  The next day, I got a call from their mechanic.  He got to wondering and looked into it. 
Turns out that the ORIGINAL owner or shop had discarded a bracket when they replaced it for the first time.  This mechanic got the part and put it in no charge.  No problems after that.
The new owners of the shop aren't as customer friendly...but I would ask if you had a shop do the work.

[rick91351]

If a replaced part fails two weeks after install. who should pay for:

New part?
Labor to replace?

The shop I go to furnishes a loaner car, has a minimum 90 day parts and labor guarantee.  I have been a customer there for close to 20 plus or minus years now.  Same owner, some of the same techs (when did a mechanic become a tech?).  He just keeps getting bigger and adding on.  Auto shop, truck shop, and they are running a full service towing service.  People threaten to leave over prices and they do but most come back............

[peternap]

Better hang on to them Rick!

Here are a couple of Land Rover Stories for your amusement:

Land Rover cut off on interstate. My wife was so proud that Land Rover had free towing for life. What she didn't realize was they would only tow to a Land Rover Dealership.
Next morning, the dealership called and said it was ready. I went there with her. I asked what was wrong. They couldn't find anything. It started right up. There was a bad fuse for one of the lights though and they replaced it. The bill $700+.00. I had to go to church the following Sunday to make amends for that conversation.

Land Rover had a bad vibration in the drive shaft. Wife took it to the same dealership against my warnings. They called me and said nothing wrong with the drive shaft but they replaced the windshield wipers and were going to replace the rear brakes. I told them to put the old wipers back on and park it outside and NOT touch it. They said they had already thrown the old blades out. I told them to park it without any wiper blades.
The Bill $400+,00 and they threatened to call the police over that conversation.
I replaced the bad drive shaft, brakes and wiper blades the next day.

Land Rover kept having a dead battery every 2 days. I took it to another Land Rover Dealer and told them to test the electrical system. They called and said charging system was OK but the battery was bad. Picked it up the next day and the new battery was dead.
They were happy I left without paying anything and not hurting anyone.
I traced and replaced a bad air suspension sensor the next day.

Land Rover rear door latch was stuck. Took it to a non Land Rover garage. They took it apart and after a week called and said the latch was unavailable. I picked it up, still in pieces, bungied the door shut, went to Land Rover and bought a latch (They had 6 of them) and put it together.
Before I did that though, I photographed the mess and gave copies to every competing garage in town to use as advertising.

The wife has finally consented to let me repair it since I always have to anyway and she's afraid I'll kill someone otherwise.

[Redoverfarm]

Peter every time I drive down the road and see a Land Rover I think of you with the experiences that you had posted earlier. Sorry to add insult to injury. 

[rick91351]

With my crazy railroad job.  Its hours and no set schedule and when you got in, you best be resting for your next trip.  I did that for years and years.

Then they changed some rest rules this allowed us more time at home and away from work.  This also allowed more time up at the ranch and running back and forth there.  I pretty much did not have time to pull wrenches anymore nor was my want too still there I guess.    Nor did I want to learn of diagnostic codes and diodes and lap tops hooked to USB ports.....  I sort of allowed technology pass me by in the private sector.  However my 24/ 7 days job - Locomotives now one the other hand you were always talking to the Power Desk and they are talking you through stuff all the time.  We never pulled wrenches, however did - do a lot of resetting of faulted systems and booting computers.  This even more made me so not want to do the new stuff for myself. 

Was I ever into pulling wrenches?  Yes I was.  Do I still?  Yes some.  I have a big roll around tool box and the one mounted on top.  I got wrenches hung for peg boards and a tool box or two in the Powerstroke.  But if I need something fixed today or tomorrow.  I have had to come to Country Repair on the cellphone speed dial.

The other thing, the shop I take stuff to is independent.  It does not have Ford, Chevy or Dodge on a $100,000 read-a-board sign.  Nor does the shop have to net the dealership $$$$ annually.  We have our share of big dealerships here that do that as well.  You drive in for a service and dive out with $100 windshield wipers and a $1000 shock and strut rebuild and of course the $500 CV Boot.  And thank God we caught that you were just a wreck waiting to happen.

Is my place cheap?  No not at all.  But figure in loaner cars, and huge diagnostic center and well trained techs, clean waiting room and all.  I would not expect it to be.