We could use a tractor. On top of building and groundwork we have snow removal, grass, we wan't to clear more land (without more backpain) a wood road, the garden etc etc etc...
We have about 28 acres of hilly, partially cleared woodland and live in a snowbelt.
As to budget we don't have one ... more tractor means less house - we can't afford either but when did that ever stop us?
Anyone have any opinions or ideas?
Alasdair

(I have posted on a couple of Tractor forums but there's no place like home.... )

Good luck!
That subject starts more fights than the best rifle for Deer.

I have a Jinma 455 and have been pretty happy with it. There are some issues with the rice burners though. The steering connections are pretty weak and I did manage to break a steering knuckle.

China rubber sucks. Replace all the hoses. That's a good thing because you need to replace all the fluid that turns to Jello in cold weather.

Parts can be days away sometimes.

The electrical systems need tweaking sometimes.

OTOH, plenty of power, fairly reliable, a lot less expensive than the American brands that are built in China.
You can get used tractors pretty cheap now. Lots of farmers and others with tractors going belly up.

Let the battle begin!

I've been watching my 2 neighbors closely. one has a 30 hp new holland 4 wheel drive tractor w/loader, the other has a chink (I can't pronounce the name) 30 hp 4 wheel drive tractor w/loader. both bought them new around the same time. they are both using a 5' bush hog. chink cost $7500 new, new holland, costs  $270 a month for 7 years. I have had the chance to use both at one time or another. (before I bought my own tractor). I didn't find any real difference in power, traction, loader capacity or reliability.
Both have broken small things on occasion. never anything major.
So, I guess it's a question of personal wants.
For the record, I bought a used 4600 50 hp. ford diesel w/loader and 6' bush hog. only because I got it real cheap.

Quote from: peternap on February 09, 2011, 08:10:37 PM
Good luck!
That subject starts more fights than the best rifle for Deer.

I don't understand why that would start an argument, everyone knows it's a .270

..
As for tractors, to be honest go green, blue, or orange and your 99% likely to get a good product.  However, each of them have product lines; with low end products and high end products.  If you compare apples to apples so to speak you'll find them pretty comparable.  If you compare a low end kubota to a high end deere you'll run yourself in circles.  -- Be sure to checkout craigslist, my buddy got his used one from the school district at a great price. 

I just bought one myself.  I am in an almost identical position.  I went with a ford 8n with loader.  The 8n, 9n, and 2n were the most produced tractors in history.  They are almost identical. They are all over craigslist (cheap).  You can buy almost every part retail from any Tractor Supply store.  Almost every attachment for tractors will fit it.  You can also buy every single part brand new online.  I was also comfortable operating it, because everyone I knew growing up had one.  As with all old machines, I would only recommend buying it if you are mechanically inclined.  If I didn't get this I would have bought a new tractor.  I noticed when looking for used tractors that the green ones cost a premium because I was competing with collectors.  I went used because I was in the same position as you.  I was only going to use it occasionally to maintain the road and clearing, not much farming.  With that in mind $15,000 on a new tractor would have used up most of the building fund.



7500 for a new 30 hp tractor is cheap.  Never heard of it. It sounds like the New Holland cost around $18,000 depending on interest rates.

I would recommend a compact tractor or larger with loader and 3 pt. with live hydraulics and PTO that is not transmission driven.

If you go used and need a mechanic other than yourself, find a shop locally that can work on the brand you choose.

I bought a used JD 750 diesel and it has served me well, but I have spent over $700 on maintenance/repairs at the local shop in the last 2 years.  I wish it had a loader.



This 20hp compact handles a 5' brush hog, 14" auger, 5' blade, 4' scoop.  I added weights to the front end and the tires are loaded.

If I had it to do over, I would find one with a loader and power steering.  4 wheel drive would be a bonus.

I'm currently searching for a used tractor with loader.  I can get a MF, Ford, or Farmall with a fully hydraulic loader for less than buying a loader for the 750.

For hilly country the Fords, MF, and Farmall compacts with wide front might make the most sense.  I would stay away from high clearance crop tractors.

Recent craigslist examples in my territory include a '52 Ford 8N with loader for $3500; '55 Ford 850 with loader for $2800 (but it has a transmission PTO); a AC 5020 4WD diesel w/loader and turf tires for $5500;  a Ford 800 w/loader for $2750; an International 354 w/loader w/3pt. and live PTO for $3975.

Most of these are 30 to 40 hp range.  In general compact tractors command a premium.

Gotta agree with the loader. I couldn't do without mine. 4WD is also a lifesaver sometimes.

I do have a high clearance tractor and some Hell Hills.  That gets exciting sometimes but I turned my wheels around to give me a wider wheelbase and I've only had it lean over on two wheels a couple of times. Usually when I run over a stump that I didn''t see while on a steep hill.

I have a JD3032e 4x4
I bought it new, a used one was about 1,000 to 1,500 less
With this type of investment, I believe that it's better to get what you want the first time. This is not my first tractor!
You should buy one with the intention of using it for a lifetime.
I find new uses for this tractor every time I get on it.

I'll throw my MF 35 in the old iron mix, mines a '54, dual range tranny, live pto, wide stance, easy to work on, good general purpose machine. If you don't over rev them they'll outast your grandchildren. But yes, when I get on a larger green machine I get tractor envy bigtime 

A loader is as handy as a pocket on a shirt. words to live by.

Quote from: zion-diy on February 10, 2011, 06:16:18 PM
A loader is as handy as a pocket on a shirt. words to live by.

I am afraid I have to disagree with that statement.  A loader is handier than a pocket on a shirt!     Once you have one, you really can't figure out what you did without one.  And right now I am without one.      But I am looking.... 

Quote from: rick91351 on February 10, 2011, 08:57:10 PM

Quote from: zion-diy on February 10, 2011, 06:16:18 PM
A loader is as handy as a pocket on a shirt. words to live by.

I am afraid I have to disagree with that statement.  A loader is handier than a pocket on a shirt!     Once you have one, you really can't figure out what you did without one.  And right now I am without one.      But I am looking.... 

Yep!

squirl, thats an interesting setup with the old ford and loader.   How do you like it? 

When I was much younger (late teenager), I drove an 8N with a front end loader one summer.  Personally, that guys particular setup was dreadful.  From memory, the 8N was light, and a full bucket would lift the back tires off the ground.  It was really hard to have any kind of traction.  We ended up added 800 pounds or so of weight to hold it down in the back. 

But the other problem was that it had no power steering, so you had all the weight in the front pushing down on the front wheels which made them a bear to steer. 

Between no traction in the back, and hard as all hell to steer it was really troublesome to use the loader.  I am curious what your experience has been?  Did you have to make any adjustments?  To be honest, I like the idea of an old ~ will outlive your grandkids, and work on it anywhere  ~ tractor.  But my memories of that beast have kept me away from it. 

since we're doing pictures...

I haven't used it for much heavy lifting, but I'm not worried.  It came with new 200lb wheel weights on each wheel.  I'm also looking for a small 3 point backhoe.  I haven't used it that much.  I just got it two months ago and I spent most of my time working on the shed.  I used it on some dirt, a few logs, and some brush.  It will get put into more service clearing brush and fixing the road in the spring when the ground has thawed.  The lack of power steering is a pain, and the turning radius isn't especially great. For what I wanted it for, I view it as just one less thing that can break.  The other problem with the setup is I have to climb up from the rear or over a tire to get into the seat.

If I had a spare 12-15K, I would never have gotten a used/old tractor.  The amount I use it, I could never justify a monthly payment for one either.

I didn't know that much about tractors and am still learning.  So when I went to purchase, I had a few criteria.
It had to start right up from a cold December start. When I arrived to take a look I made sure that the exhaust and engine where cold.
It had to have no leaks.
Everything had to work.  PTO/hydraulic pump
It had to have no rust.
It shouldn't smoke excessively.
It had to have good rubber.  No dry rot.
I was surprised how many of all model tractors with a loader under $3k failed these criteria.  Tractors can get expensive.

Interesting thread.

Do some of these tractor's front loaders have enough lifting power to dig a basement/crawl space hole for a small cottage?  Or do you need a heavier duty machine?

Mine does and I've dug small (20X10) areas for a root cellar. I have cut roads with it and built a dam.

The problem isn't in the lifting/digging power, it's in the strength of the bucket. You need to be careful not to get it in a pinch or you bend the bucket up. Mine has held up well but Larry (The big Kidd) bent his so badly he had to replace it.

Also I have read of people damaging the seals on the hydraulics.  I have seen people break up soil with a plow/sub-soiler and remove it with the loader too.  They did not actually dig hard earth with a loader.  I have also seen digging buckets that can go on the back of a 3 point hitch.  There are many ways to get the job done. It is easier than digging by hand, but it is much slower than a commercial backhoe.

My experience with one would tell me yes depending on how good of shape it is in when you get it.  If the loader is cheep made and very light weight out fit of course you will have issues.  Usually structural as well as the hydraulic rams not holding up.  There are some out there that are just plain junk.  Then there is the operator issue.  Some people can hold grade with an old wore-out outfit just fine, while others like me who just never do it enough to do it well.  Meaning when you go to shoot in grade there is a lot more hand work.  Further footings or footers need to be on virgin soil so do not plain on back filling and having it done proper.  But for a small cabin it should work just fine to dig a simple clearance like a couple of feet deep.  One thing I would suggest is take your time and do not stress the equipment or yourself.  Especially if the soil is hard and compact as well as rocky, and in our area of the valley the infamous hard-pan.  Spring it is not all that bad when it is moist, but late summer it turns to cement, and it is in most places very  deep as well.  While up in ranch in the spring time some times there is water every where you dig.  Telling you this because all areas of course the ground and soil differs so much.  However I would stay away from trying to do a basement.

Quote from: peternap on February 11, 2011, 12:52:51 PM
Mine does and I've dug small (20X10) areas for a root cellar. I have cut roads with it and built a dam.

The problem isn't in the lifting/digging power, it's in the strength of the bucket. You need to be careful not to get it in a pinch or you bend the bucket up. Mine has held up well but Larry (The big Kidd) bent his so badly he had to replace it.

Peter is quite right.  You shove your dirt into the bucket then lift up with the arms.  Never pry up with one of these light weight buckets.  They are not a Case Construction King with a huge pump and huge horse power and everything armored up and reinforced, built to get it done quickly.  But then you are not paying that kind of money for one either.   

So it seems like if you wanted to dig a basement/crawl it might be best to loosen the soil with a backhoe and use the bucket to remove the loosened soil?

This is one sweet machine

I definitely like the hydraulic trans -- set the power and just push the peddle to go as fast or slow as you want

runs the 5 foot brush hog and 55" rototiller no problem -- the hydraulic PTO's are nice too



loaders are a necessity

No, you can dig with one of those puppy's just fine.  Just do not get aggressive thinking you have a big time front end loader.  Just a slight down angle on the bucket and shove and lift.  You run into problems prying on concrete, big rocks and stuff well anchored like pipes and culverts.  Like I say do not stress the equipment and yourself  Be happy and have a good time.....it can be a fun learning experience.  You will soon find out what it and you can do and you can not do, and you learn more all the time you are on it.  Also a good point is, stop grab the grease gun, grease around all your pins now and then.  Look things over, have an ice tea, cup of Joe, a beer or what ever, admire your work.  See where you are messing up and try not to do that again.  If you own it, it really does not matter all that much the hour meter is running or not.  Hey you are the boss you don't have to yell at yourself.      

       

There is another safety issue with tractors that needs to be posted and addressed.  Most tractors have a power take-off.  These are used to power machinery like balers and mowers and such.  They are very powerful and dangerous if left running or turned on by mistake or kids just playing.  If they catch clothing they are unmerciful, they will break bones and disfigure bodies.  They will kill you as well and never even drag the engine down doing it.

Also with front end loaders watch for power lines over head.  Uneven ground can really be multiplied when a loader is raised in the air.  This can cause the loader to fail and break or tip the tractor and loader over. 



       

Hiring out big work is usually cheaper in the end IMO, but a box blade on the back with rippers all the way down to loosen it up will work pretty good. If you haven't found out yet Squirl, never hook your thumb in the steering wheel to turn it, always keep your hands on the outer rim. The steering wheel can about take your thumb off.

Quote from: Don_P on February 11, 2011, 06:38:54 PM
never hook your thumb in the steering wheel to turn it, always keep your hands on the outer rim. The steering wheel can about take your thumb off.

Super good advice. Back in the days before power steering was prevalent that was one of the things they made a big deal about when teaching soldiers how to drive military trucks. Don't know about these days, but still good advice even with power steering.