Author Topic: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY  (Read 290608 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline speedfunk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • FULL FLEDGED MEMBER
900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« on: November 22, 2008, 07:50:08 PM »
Here are some renderings.  I love sketch-up.








 A bit of background:  Our thought is that we can design a house that is as efficient and simple (lack of electric powered adaptions, ie water pump, pressure tank, furnance etc).  We are 29 now and we both work part time so we will build it ourselfs .  I work 2 days a week (10 hours) in IT and she works 3 days in programing.    .  We have land all ready purchased and paid for in cash.  We owe a bit of cash still on our current home but no other debts.  The land we are building on has 14 acres of wooded land, very close to a city in southern tier of NY State.  The land was picked b/c we be attempting to build a completely passive solar house.  There is a great southern exposure.  The land has a spring above where we are building that flows 20-25 gpm. 

The house will basically be a earth-bermed drystacked block house, think one story basement with roof.   Due south has windows and there will also be passive solar collectors ( not PV) outside the house that will attach to dry,insulated earth below our house.  This will allow us to harvest the solar rays of dead summer OUTSIDE the house so we won't over heat but can still use that energy ( an attempt to fix the flaw i see with conventional earthships).  John Hait has written about energy storage in the earth around your house and this is the system that we have adapted (and twisted a bit Wink.   Again simplicity and low maintenance being key!  No pumps or furnaces if we can help it.  We will also have a wood stove as a back up.

Power is tricky, we have a spring that connects with another spring and runs down the hill around 180 ft drop.  So there is really good potential for a water turbine.  this will most likley wait till after house is built.   Also an option becuase we are on top of a hill is wind.  We have a high spot of the top of our land that sits in bedrock that would be perfect for a tower.  The wind maps also say it's good site ..I think it averages 12-14mph winds .  So one or the other, or maybe both down the road.

We are currently in the permit process!  We have an excavator scheduled to start the end of the week (although you know contractors esp chill ones like we have) leveling the spot for the house and making a small pond. 

Look forward to sharing the project and getting feedback... peace
jeff
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 10:42:48 AM by speedfunk »
oursideofthemountain.com

Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,925
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2008, 09:57:48 PM »
I have read the preview of John Haits PAHS book.  Lodestar (Bruce) used his techniques in Montana I think.  There is info here on it somewhere.

John Hait also wrote a book on Rust Batteries - decomposing metal in a safe manner for power.

Nice renderings - good for getting ideas going.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline n74tg

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 576
  • Hot Springs, AR
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2008, 04:33:22 AM »
There is an earth bermed house here in the Hot Springs, AR area.  The side that faces the road is exactly like the backside of your design.  I drove down the driveway once, but it looked like they had a lot of company (lots of cars in front) so I didn't stop. 

Still, the earth bermed concept intrigues me (and I used dry-stack blocks for my foundation).

I hope you take lots of pics and even consider documenting your build in a blog.  I did a blog on my project, and yes, it does take up time away from building to write it all up, but it's a really effective way to communicate your thoughts to those you want to know about it.

Good luck with the project.   

My house building blog:

http://n74tg.blogspot.com/

Offline speedfunk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • FULL FLEDGED MEMBER
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2008, 07:01:45 AM »
Yeah Glen, I've heard about the rust batteries .  It seems cool and being that I think he's a very bright guy I can't see why it wouldn't be worthy of purchasing.   Finding Haits book was VERY helpful.  I've always wanted to use the earth as a sink but found very little data on it.  Like the fact that heat travels 20' out in every direction (in dry earth)  during a 6 mo period.  my thinking was to build an insulated box below the house at that time.  I understand that idea of using gradual temp gradients to slow and store the passage of heat.  The thinking before was the barrier insulation mindset.  I'm excited to start however being that my planning has been going on for a while I'm somewhat somber about it now  d* .  Just trying to deal with code and get the permit so I can have electric installed on property.  We used a generator for the last project and I really got tired of listening to it.

The code guy had issue with that main ridge beam i'm using.  I went to a building supply and we speced out a 8" x 5 1/5" x 30'  glu lam to work for the spans.  However I don't want glue holding my house up.  I'd rather use old barn beams , however this would require an arcitect to "approve" it.  He is even aware there are barns standing now 200 years later using barns.  So he said as long as it's up to code .  NYS goes by the International building code.  So i'm thinking of submitting a drawing of using 4 8" x 2" rough cut boards (not sure about wood type) staggered seams as the main beam.  With bolts thought all of them.  I mean it's only 10' spans.  We will see what he says to this. 

Meanwhile I'm waiting for the excavator guy to come.  He is a really good guy that has big equipment but also has a 40 hour a week regular job so I understand lol.  The goal is to fix the driveway.  The drive way of the property is ballastic.  It was a 30 acres subdivision with the culdesac at the end, we own this peice that no one wanted.   Well the end peice was never built on but it had a road put in that goes into the middle of my property ( I can't see anyone!) .  The road was built to town specs so it's really wide 25' and very strong.  So really all i need to do is reditch and add some crush and run and some pipe ways to drain the hill water.  I'm very lucky to have such a nice driveway.

The hill needs to be terraced .  Quite a large amount of dirt and rock will have to be moved.   The insulated skirting around the house goes out 20' in every direction so simply digging some footers is not enough.  The hill is steep and above the house I want to make sure I have the property well drained.  Water seeping into my insulated earth would not be good so I want to REALLY make sure this doesn't happen

I'll do a search and check out bruces postings :)  Thanks Glen. 

N74tg:

Yeah i'm going to keep this page as a blog and some one our own webpage .  I like the idea of keeping everything hear b/c alot more people will find it compared to my own blog.  I will defiently read yours.  I very much enjoy house building blogs it inspires me to keep keeping on ...

Jeff

E
oursideofthemountain.com

Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,925
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2008, 09:07:12 PM »
This will be worth watching.  Thanks, Jeff.

I have the Rust Battery e-book - just need to actually try it.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline MountainDon

  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,765
  • Jemez Mountains, NM; that's pronounced HEY-mess
    • My 15.75 x 30 Jemez Cabin
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2008, 06:22:13 PM »
Nice looking concept and renderings.  :)

...small holding tank to increase the pressure ( only 20' drop to house),we will have pressurized water for our home with no need for any electric powered system.

However, I'm not sure you'll be happy with this. If there is only a 20 foot fall the water pressure would be less than 9 PSI.  :(  The formula is to multiply the distance from the top surface of the water to the outlet by .43. [20 ft x .43 = 8.6 PSI] It makes no difference if the tank holds 20 gallons or 20000 gallons; if the distance from the surface to the spigot is the same so is the pressure. I just wanted to point this out as anything less than 20 PSI is generally not satisfactory to most folks.

There are also frictional losses, which are mainly going to be noticed over long distances or with too small a pipe diameter.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline speedfunk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • FULL FLEDGED MEMBER
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2008, 09:32:09 AM »
Mountain Don, 

I don't mind if my pressure is low as long as I have GPM.  My thinking is I need water coming out and enough to not have to wait 20 years for it to fill.  You bring up a good point about the resvior, the only thing that's going to do is provide me with the volume of water without depleting the spring box.  This make scense? 

Beam Question.  I have a 30' span from side to side with 2 8" concrete posts every 10' in the middle.  Is there load caculators you all know of that should be excepted by my code guy .  IBC is the code.  This is the part i'm not good at PROVING to him.  I know I can see examples where it works but they of course don't want any liabilty.  I don't have money for arcitect to prove it good.  Idea's would be great!
oursideofthemountain.com

Offline MountainDon

  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,765
  • Jemez Mountains, NM; that's pronounced HEY-mess
    • My 15.75 x 30 Jemez Cabin
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2008, 09:43:39 AM »

Beam Question.  I have a 30' span from side to side with 2 8" concrete posts every 10' in the middle.  Is there load caculators you all know of that should be excepted by my code guy .  IBC is the code.  This is the part i'm not good at PROVING to him. 

It's not clear to me if you are talking about a roof beam, floor beam... ?

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline speedfunk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • FULL FLEDGED MEMBER
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2008, 09:44:09 AM »
Here's what i did this weekend:  NOT BUILDING LOL  

I'm the guy beating mylar skins and shinny discs.

oursideofthemountain.com

Offline speedfunk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • FULL FLEDGED MEMBER
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2008, 09:44:50 AM »
roof beam. 
oursideofthemountain.com

Offline MountainDon

  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,765
  • Jemez Mountains, NM; that's pronounced HEY-mess
    • My 15.75 x 30 Jemez Cabin
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2008, 09:54:26 AM »
Roof Beam; as in the ridge beam? If so that normally requires an engineer or architect. Or if you're lucky the inspector may have a less expensive solution/suggestion. MTL, he will not, but you never know.  :-\

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline MountainDon

  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,765
  • Jemez Mountains, NM; that's pronounced HEY-mess
    • My 15.75 x 30 Jemez Cabin
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2008, 09:57:49 AM »
Calculator for joists, floor and ceiling, and rafters...

http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp

but not beams of any kind. Thiose are more complicated calculations.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline glenn kangiser

  • The Troglodyte
  • Administrator
  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,925
  • Central California Sierras- Home of Yosemite NP
    • Underground Cabin
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2008, 09:58:11 AM »
Here's what i did this weekend:  NOT BUILDING LOL  

I'm the guy beating mylar skins and shinny discs.



Cool, Jeff.  We're in the presence of fame.  :)  I'm too lazy to go to a concert anymore and wrestle with the throngs of people.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline speedfunk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • FULL FLEDGED MEMBER
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2008, 10:29:55 AM »
glenn:  Famous .hahahaha  .  Why do you think i need the passive solar house!!!  Can't afford the heating bill d*

Mountain Don:  Thanks that will definitly help some.  I ;'ll have to do some REAL digging on the net and see what I can find.  Talking to him should help as well.  I just kind of get confused by all this beacratic type stuff.  I just want to be able to build
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 10:53:32 AM by speedfunk »
oursideofthemountain.com

Offline soomb

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • AZ now, and looks like I am staying.
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2008, 07:24:46 PM »
will your place be a 1 bedroom?  Will you expand or modify the layout as your son gets older?

I like the look.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 04:57:16 AM by soomb »
Live- Phoenix, Relax- Payson

Offline speedfunk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • FULL FLEDGED MEMBER
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2008, 02:24:49 AM »
soomb:

Yes, it's technically a one bedroom   8).  all though if you look at pic 4 up top you will see where there are 3 bays to the back of the house.  One bay (far right) is taken by the bathroom.  This leaves the option to wall in 2 more rooms that could be used for bedrooms :)  Expansion would have some consequences and would have to be done carefully to not mess up the insulated skirting.   We also have a tiny cabin on the property,maybe my son will move out there when he is craving independence.  When they move out though and we are old and grey the walls can be taken back out to open up a bigger living area. Interior walls would be made from pine

oursideofthemountain.com

Offline soomb

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • AZ now, and looks like I am staying.
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2008, 05:01:07 AM »
thanks for pointing that out.  What is the width/depth of the main body of the house?  What is the rough size of the bays (bath and others)?  The tiny cabin is the one from your blog?

Happy Thanksgiving!
Live- Phoenix, Relax- Payson

Offline Sassy

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,315
  • Calif Gold Country
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2008, 09:09:54 AM »
Just browsed through your blog - guess I didn't notice the link at the bottom of your postings - looks like you guys are having fun!  Cute kid  :)  I'm really impressed at all you have accomplished at such a young age  [cool]   I'll have to look at the blog periodically for updates... 
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

Offline Bishopknight

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 522
  • Oxford Hills County, Maine
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2008, 12:48:35 PM »
I'm excited to see how your project goes. I wish I could see the pictures but I'm viewing from work and they block everything except google picasaweb.

When im home I'll check out your project and update this response. Keep us updated!

- Sean / BK

Offline ListerD

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
    • Our Missouri Life
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2008, 06:06:23 AM »
Interesting for sure!

BTW: Nice job on the 122! I've restored/rebuilt an Original, an 86, and a 1200. Great little tractors.
“We shape our dwellings, and afterwards our dwellings shape us” -- Winston Churchill

Offline speedfunk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • FULL FLEDGED MEMBER
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2008, 11:25:34 AM »
Soomb:  The width and the depth are  30'8 inside ( 32' outside) x 24'8" (26' outside) .  The bedroom bays are 10' along the rear wall and 9' deep.  Master bedroom is 15'4 inside x 9'4" inside.  Yeah the Tiny cabin is the one we built.  I'm going to post some pics of it now (just took them).  It's funny how it's easy to start off posting everything but by the end of the project we always seem to slack a bit lol. 

Sassy: Thanks :0)  Yupper things are going good can't complain, kid def changes things a wee bit  :P

Bknight:  being that I'm a network admin, one easy way to navigate through content filters is to use btunnel.com or some other tunneling web app.  The kids know it lol, of course they have an abundance of time to find this stuff .  There won't be much happening during this winter though but if I get the dirtwork and the electric oh..and finish up the spring box for water for concrete I'll be happy and ready to go come spring.

Listerd:  Actually it's a 102 ,  The hood we had was badly beat so b/c my old man LOVES cub cadet tractors he search around and found one from a 122 cheap so it has wrong stickers on it.  Neat stuff, tractors are so much quicker to restore then cars.  The dune buggy my dad and I built it took 2 or 3 years .  The tractor a couple months of LOTS of breaks.  What I love best about the thing is it's meant to work, that transfer case is BUILT SOLID.  I'd like to see someone damage it.  When kids my friend and I had a "brief" firewood business, and we used a 102 to haul 2 or 3 small trees at a time ..try that with a craftsman ride mower :)

peace
Jeff


« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 11:56:00 AM by speedfunk »
oursideofthemountain.com

Offline ListerD

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
    • Our Missouri Life
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2008, 04:12:46 AM »
Surely built like a tank. My 1200 out does the JD we have hands down.

“We shape our dwellings, and afterwards our dwellings shape us” -- Winston Churchill

Offline Redoverfarm

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,774
  • Applachian Mtns, West Virginia
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2008, 04:38:26 AM »
Just like everything else the older models of the cub when built by International were jems but since MTD took them over there quality has deminished considerably.  I bought a JD older 316 rather than a newer verson just for that reason.  The older had Onan engines and everything was built heavier.  The newer have Kaw motors and everything underneath is stamped metal rather than cast.  Vintage is better if you can find one in good shape.

Offline Bishopknight

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 522
  • Oxford Hills County, Maine
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2008, 06:41:45 PM »
Finally got to see the sketchup pics now since work blocks them. Looks very nice. I can't wait to see how you progress with it.

Offline soomb

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • AZ now, and looks like I am staying.
Re: 900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2008, 07:11:21 PM »
I'm going to post some pics of it now (just took them).  It's funny how it's easy to start off posting everything but by the end of the project we always seem to slack a bit. 
I know the inclination is to slack a bit as time goes on, but I implore you to fight it!  I am very detail oriented and the more you post the better.  I am impressed that at 29 you have done this once already and are on your second go at it (impressive at any age really).  Keep the detail and background coming.

Thanks
Live- Phoenix, Relax- Payson

 

Templates: 5: index (default), Ads (default), Portal (default), Display (default), GenericControls (default).
Sub templates: 12: init, html_above, adsheaders_above, body_above, adsindex_above, portal_above, main, portal_below, adsindex_below, body_below, adsheaders_below, html_below.
Language files: 3: SPortal.english (default), index+Modifications.english (default), Ads.english (default).
Style sheets: 1: portal (default).
Files included: 38 - 1124KB. (show)
Cache hits: 14: 0.00221s for 40,795 bytes (show)
Queries used: 29.

[Show Queries]