Richard Gage - 9/11 -new info from Fox News KMPH

[Sonoran]

Whether I believe or not believe the official story of 9/11, I believe what is most important is to continue debating the events surrounding that day.  I believe we must always question the information and motivations of elected officials. 

I've read Brave New World and I'm halfway through 1984. I totally agree with you, it's good to question.

[Windpower]

Oh btw I did read the PM page  -- NOT 1000 degrees Centigrade

1000 Fahrenheit

How's that incandescent melted aluminum going .....

But wait

Hey we don't need to investigate 911 at all

We just need to listen to this expert

this guy understood the whole thing and decribed it with the smoothness of an infomercial  on 911 !

GENIUS I tell ya !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GA4vc6XKHs&feature=player_embedded

[Windpower]

Whether I believe or not believe the official story of 9/11, I believe what is most important is to continue debating the events surrounding that day.  I believe we must always question the information and motivations of elected officials. 

I've read Brave New World and I'm halfway through 1984. I totally agree with you, it's good to question.

For a world view changing read

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man   by John Perkins

Explains how the American empire steals the wealth of weaker counties and lines the pockets of US companies like Bechtel, Brown and Root,  Haliburton ....

excellent

[Virginia Gent]

The only thing that gets me are the buildings falling at free-fall speed. I have yet to hear anything that can explain that. A building pancaking in on itself is gonna take longer than 7-10 seconds (depending on which building we are discussing). Am I saying it was a controlled demo. job? No. Am I saying Uncle Sam did it? No. However, I'm not buying the other side's snake oil either.

As of now, the so-called "Conspiracy Theorist" have a one up in my opinion simply on the basis of the free-falling building. That should raise enough eyebrows that a better investigation should take place. I'd rather it be funded privately, but no matter HOW it is funded, each side will say the other side had a "Stake" so it's a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" kinda deal.

[Bishopknight]

What saddens me for the most part, is that the mass media immediately qualifies people who question 9/11 events as quackery or conspiracy theorists. You'd think theres enough recent times in history that we've made the wrong assumption the first time that maybe we could have an open debate about the meanings of such attacks before we come to such firm conclusions.

I mean, I saw planes fly into the buildings. But I didn't see a plane fly into the pentagon and for some 'national security reason' they wont release the withheld footage of it flying into the pentagon. ( A white spec frame isn't enough ) It can't be harder to watch that seeing the planes flying into the twin towers. So are they hiding something? Or even lying?

[firefox]

In this particular case, I think they don't want to leak out any information on the strength or construction of the pentagon that might give future terrorists an advantage. That is not to imply that they wouldn't lie about just anything

[glenn kangiser]

...and I think it is the PNAC scenario scripted and brought to life...as they desired.... 

[NM_Shooter]

Oh btw I did read the PM page  -- NOT 1000 degrees Centigrade

1000 Fahrenheit

How's that incandescent melted aluminum going .....

Your own camp leader refuted you point that aluminum does not glow.  No need for me to prove it to you once I re-read and noticed he cleared you up on that.

I have cast lots of aluminum.  <snip>  Barely a glow at melting temperature. 

Temps were way above melting.  You say you read the page and it was quoted 1000deg F?  Nope.  Read again.  Here is the quote:

"But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F. "

BTW... 1000C = 1832F. 

Here's the page, paragraph 9 : http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4

Windy, you're 0 for 2 on one post alone.  Thanks for playing!

[glenn kangiser]

You throw a rug on a fire to put it out.  A pile of rugs will not burn except on the outside, without a blower and or air circulation, of which the tower had neither.  The NIST report is crap.  Bought and paid for.


Don't forget the lady standing in the gaping hole waving a flag for help.  She was standing - not melting.  She did not die until they pulled the controlled demolition.  She was real and she was identified. 

[glenn kangiser]

Kurt Sonnenfeld : Exclusive interview
9/11 FEMA videographer at Ground Zero goes public

Voltaire Network: To what degree would your discoveries at Ground Zero expose the government's involvement in those events? Are you familiar with the investigations that have been carried out by numerous scientists and qualified professionals which not only corroborate your own findings but, in some instances, far exceed them? Do you regard such people as "conspiracy nuts"?

Kurt Sonnenfeld: At the highest levels in Washington, DC, someone knew what was going to happen. They wanted a war so badly that they at least let it happen and most likely even helped it happen.

Sometimes it seems to me that the "nuts" are those who hold to what they've been told with an almost religious fervor despite all of the evidence to the contrary — the ones who won't even consider that there was a conspiracy. There are so many anomalies to the "official" investigation that you can't blame it on oversight or incompetence. I am familiar with the scientists and qualified professionals to whom you refer, and their findings are convincing, credible, and presented according to scientific protocol — in stark contrast to the findings of the "official" investigation. In addition, numerous intelligence agents and government officials have now come forward with their very informed opinions that the 911 Commission was a farce at best or a cover-up at worst. My experience at Ground Zero is but one more piece of the puzzle.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html

[NM_Shooter]

Ahh yes.  The drug addict / flee the country to avoid a civil suit / murder suspect. 

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_1208124,00.html

[glenn kangiser]

Obviously he was of high enough credibility to get a job with the highest security clearance to get into the areas of the WTC that were off limits to nearly everyone else.

I guess they would not paint him as an upstanding citizen if he is blowing the whistle on  them.

In the interview it is stated that the Argentine court has investigated the allegations of the US services who want to silence him and found them to be false hence his continued political asylum. 

Drug use is allowed even for the president of the United States as indicated by the Supreme Court installation of George W. Bush and Kenyan, Barry Soetoro.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/cocaine/

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/orlytaitzletter24feb09.shtml

[glenn kangiser]

His statement about FEMA setting up a day early  (September 10th. 2001) to be ready for the event agrees with the news interview (Dan Rather if I recall correctly)  with  the FEMA first responder who stated the same thing.  

Wonder how they knew that the 11th was the day?

[Windpower]

One of the weakest forms of 'argument' is the "ad hominem"

A (fallacious) ad hominem argument has the basic form:

Person A makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person A
Therefore claim X is false

Ad hominem is one of the best known of the logical and systematic fallacies usually enumerated in introductory logic and critical thinking textbooks. Both the fallacy itself, and accusations of having committed it, are often brandished in actual discourse (see also Argument from fallacy). As a technique of rhetoric, it is powerful and used often because of the natural inclination of the human brain to recognize patterns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem



It is used extensively by 'debunkers' because they are too lazy or unable to make valid, logical counter-arguements to presented facts.

[NM_Shooter]

Windy!  You're back!  How's those physics classes going?  Did they get to the deg F vs. deg C part yet?  Let me know if you need more help.

Regards,

Shooter

P.S.  Let's say you were on trial for a very serious charge and had a defense based on the integrity of a single person.  Who would you rather have on the stand... (A) a well respected, squeaky clean professional providing evidence from their lifelong field of study, or (B)a drug abusing person recently under suspicion of murder, looking to make a name as a cinematographer off of whatever sensational interest your trial might generate ?

[glenn kangiser]

Lets try to keep this as educational discussion and light on personal attacks.

Once again let me point out that previous to the smear campaign he had passed highest security for FEMA.  How did all that get by if the claims are true.  Smearing to debunk is easy.

People wonder why more don't come forward with their proof of the government conspiracy lies and coverup.  This is why.

I asked Dahr Jamail the same question.  He said that to question the 9/11 coverup is political/journalistic suicide, no matter what the facts indicate.  

Most of the professionals who support the government are highly indebted to or solely supported by the government or grants or payroll from the Federal Government.  Most scientific study groups receive and are supported by this government money and most would not bite the hand that is feeding them.

The treasonous plot/takeover has been planned well enough to appease the believing minds of those who will not question the official story.

[glenn kangiser]

Add this one to the list.  I suppose he is a wacko also.

General of all American Intelligence: 911 was a fraud!

Major General Albert "Bert" N. Stubblebine III, head of all intelligence says:

Pentagon NOT hit by a plane
WTC 7 brought down by explosives
Media in America is controlled


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daNr_TrBw6E

[Windpower]

Just wtched that


NOTE it has German subtitles

[NM_Shooter]

Sorry.  No nibbles from me on this or any other CT thread any more.  You'll believe what you want to believe.  I'll believe what I want to believe. 

I have much more important things to consider.  Weather, chicken farming, gardening, cabin building, fishing.  All a higher priority than arguing things that can and never will be proven (one way or the other).

You guys have fun.

[glenn kangiser]

It's the same from my side -  

No matter who speaks up or how credible they are, those who chose to believe the official conspiracy story will refuse to look at any proof of any type and even the Army Chief of All Intelligence becomes yet another conspiracy theorist.  

Those who don't want to see what is being done to them simply will refuse to examine anything to the contrary.  I only wish the government plotters deserved all of the faith the official believers have in them........... but they don't.  

I feel it is still our duty to educate the younger ones on what is happening to them, so I will not stop... it is their future that is being stolen and their past that has been falsified.