Fiber cement board

williet · December 20, 2007, 08:42:04 PM

What's the real difference between Cerber "wholesale" fiber cement board and Hardy Board? I had the old asbestos siding on my old house and it was a wonderful product. Painted three times in 60 years and never a problem. (The man next door helped build the house and always painted it until I bought it). I loved the old product and when I replaced the chimney, I had to repair a few places around it. The only product I could find was a fiber cement shingle...never a problem with it.

So...any thoughts on Cerber (Builders Square / BuildDirect) vs...Hardy Board...Home Depot?

??

williet · December 21, 2007, 04:55:17 PM

No opinions or advice

?

December 21, 2007, 06:08:13 PM

MTL they're just competing brands. It would be interesting to hear from anybody with experience with both.

williet · December 22, 2007, 10:19:04 AM

That was what I was hoping for. Is Hardy really a better product, or do they just have a bigger marketing dept?

Okie_Bob · January 03, 2008, 10:04:35 AM

I'm kind of disappointed that no one responded to this question that had experience with both brands.
I have used a lot of Hardi product on my place and am extremely happy with it. I didn't really know there was a competing
product when I started.
I do know that when I went to buy the Hardi backer board for my bath rooms, there was a competing product right next to
it. Wonder board? Maybe? Can't recall exact name. But, after looking at both for a few minutes I was convinced Hardi backer board
was a superior product and honestly, I didn't even check the prices. Hardi corners and edges were much sharper and maybe even straighter and I figured that was important to me.
Hopefully by moving this topic back to the top someone with some experience will add to it.
Okie Bob

January 03, 2008, 10:29:02 AM

Williet when I built my little shop I used a siding product the guy at the lumber yard called hardi board but it wasn't really it was an off brand made from OSB with a fiber cement coating on the face. So far it's worked fine for over 8 years still on the first coat of paint but I need to recoat it this year sometime. I've helped install real hardi board but never stuck around long enough to see how it held up.

MikeT · January 03, 2008, 11:07:00 AM

When they resided a historic building here on Reed College's campus, they used a competing product called Nichicha (http://www.nichiha.com). When I asked about using it on my beach house project, I was told that it holds the color better than Hardi and is a superior product....but that is from people who are paid to represent it.

mt

williet · January 03, 2008, 01:06:12 PM

That's the thing about this product. The grain and color are so much better than Hardy...I wonder if it's as good a product.

http://siding.builddirect.com/Fiber-Cement-Siding/house_siding-Redwood/ProductDisplay_6899_p1_10025206.aspx

I saw so much about not being able to stain the Hardy and this just looks better.

Okie_Bob · January 04, 2008, 08:43:40 AM

Willet, I checked out the website you left and it does look like a good product. Course seeing pictures on their website is not the
same as actually using the product. One thing I did note was the 10 year warranty on the painted product. I would think their warranty would be a little longer for a factory painted finish? Not sure that is a valid comment or not, just something that caught my attention.
I also noticed their trim is not standard 3/4" but shows to be 5/4" and that seems a bit unusual. That is what the new composite decking material comes in and seems to thick for trim material.
I never tried to stain Hardiboard and not sure it can be stained. But, I have painted it and it holds paint beautifully. I've only had mine up about 3 plus years but, not showing any problems at all. Time will tell how good it really is.
I just think I'd want to talk to an unbiased user before I jumped into it. It's about the same price as Hardi and I know Hardi is a good product.
Maybe you could buy a few pieces just to play with?
And please keep me posted if you do. I love this type material and would be happy to try it if I had a good reference.
Okie Bob

January 04, 2008, 11:58:18 AM

I'm not sure we'll use either product, but I do want the look of stained wood and you can't get that with a painted finish. On the Hardy site, they state that their product is not meant to be stained and unless painted, they don't stand behind it. This finish on the Cerber board is the best that I've seen on a cement product to reproduce old wood.

At this time, I would choose cedar, just because. I know the up keep is much more and the price is more, but I'm not seeing a product that looks like stained wood...except maybe this Cerber stuff.

On the other hand, the fire "proofing" and NO up keep are things to think about.

I was hoping someone reading this site had actual experience with the "off" brand stuff and could give some thoughts on it....Like politicans, the one we hear about might not be the best...they may just have the best bought advertising.

We're still trying to settle on land, and we're paying for the house without the help of a bank, so I'm in no hurry...still gotta year or so.

Thanks for the imput.

NM_Shooter · January 05, 2008, 08:05:23 AM

Quote from: williet on January 03, 2008, 01:06:12 PM
That's the thing about this product. The grain and color are so much better than Hardy...I wonder if it's as good a product.

http://siding.builddirect.com/Fiber-Cement-Siding/house_siding-Redwood/ProductDisplay_6899_p1_10025206.aspx

I saw so much about not being able to stain the Hardy and this just looks better.

It's early (I'm going fishing) so maybe my math is off. Looks to me that if you overlap this suff by 2" or so, you only get about 6 square feet of coverage for $11 a stick. I noticed that Home Depot had a cement sheet with wood grain that was around $25 or so, which would give you 32 square feet.

I'm not sure about the 8X4 installation though, as I also noticed that it looks like it goes up in a butt joint fashion, not any sort of overlap. How in the world would you keep water out of the seams with something that is only butt joined? I'm going to check HD later today.

-f-

Okie_Bob · January 06, 2008, 10:23:20 PM

Shooter, I actually caulked each and every joint!! I like the stuff for two major reasons, one is it will not burn and two, termites don't like it at all. I have a friend that used the 4 X 8 sheets and really likes it too.
I'm not married to the stuff but would use it again if nothing else comes along better.
Okie Bob

williet · January 07, 2008, 11:04:22 AM

The cement fiber product I used to "patch" the other house was a replacement for the original asbestos siding. It was primed on all sides and painted on the exposed side. There was no sealing of the seams at all and it lasted as good as the original. I do think if the product was pre-finished and then that finish was cut at the job site, it would need caulk or primer or something to seal the edge.

The pre-finished has a matching caulk for this.

NM_Shooter · January 07, 2008, 02:33:53 PM

Quote from: Okie_Bob on January 06, 2008, 10:23:20 PM
Shooter, I actually caulked each and every joint!! I like the stuff for two major reasons, one is it will not burn and two, termites don't like it at all. I have a friend that used the 4 X 8 sheets and really likes it too.
I'm not married to the stuff but would use it again if nothing else comes along better.
Okie Bob

I had an idea to seal the back side of the concrete 4X8 panels with some of that peel & stick flashing. Basically tack nail it to the wall up high at where the joints will go, sticky side out. Then install the concrete board over the top. But I think that the self seal flashing is too thick. Might be able to do the same with std. aluminum flashing and some caulk underneath, then also caulk the seam. But maybe that is too much overkill....

-f-

January 07, 2008, 02:36:46 PM

BTW... I have to deal with 9' + of snow on the side of the cabin. Did you see the news article about the snow mobilers that were lost up in the Conejos of Southern Colorado? That is not too far away, and the same elevation.

I also thought about (gulp) putting metal siding on the cabin.

MountainDon · January 08, 2008, 10:55:11 AM

As for any type of siding, snow and rain, the first defensive step against possible moisture getting through to the backside is to provide for as easy exit, a drain plain. No matter what you do to try and seal, waterproof the siding, you can rest assured that at some point water will get behind the siding. This is a cabin/house, not a boat we're building.

So, properly applied #30 felt is excellent. Over that vertically arranged furring strips, 3/8 ti 1/2 " thick is all that's required but 5/8 - 3/4 is fine. Over that you apply the siding and if water gets past it, it will drain out and not cause any grief.

Okie_Bob · January 08, 2008, 03:39:30 PM

MtDon, you are right on about the 30# felt, I used it and believe that is the only way to go.
Guess I forgot to say that the Hardi board is primed on all sides from the factory and it is done
very nicely. It makes painting a joy too...if you can ever say that about painting!
Okie Bob

Redoverfarm · February 22, 2008, 04:08:02 PM

Willet check your PM messages.

John

CREATIVE1 · February 23, 2008, 11:49:46 AM

Quote from: MountainDon on January 08, 2008, 10:55:11 AM
As for any type of siding, snow and rain, the first defensive step against possible moisture getting through to the backside is to provide for as easy exit, a drain plain. No matter what you do to try and seal, waterproof the siding, you can rest assured that at some point water will get behind the siding. This is a cabin/house, not a boat we're building.

So, properly applied #30 felt is excellent. Over that vertically arranged furring strips, 3/8 ti 1/2 " thick is all that's required but 5/8 - 3/4 is fine. Over that you apply the siding and if water gets past it, it will drain out and not cause any grief.

Do you need to always use furring strips with felt? I want to use it rather than typar, so any info here would be helpful.

glenn kangiser · February 23, 2008, 12:40:52 PM

You wouldn't have to use furring but the purpose of it is to produce a rain screen wall, leaving enough gap between the siding and the felt (or if you wish to play dangerously, your choice of house wrap - Tyvek, Typar etc) to allow drainage and prevent capillary action from holding water between the back of your siding and the barrier.

With the housewraps it is possible rain/water will drain into the inside through a hole and cause mold and rot problems without the gap. With felt it will probably deform and drain then dry or in the case of an internal leak it will turn into a wick -- pull the moisture out then dry and return to normal. Wraps will not do that -- they become a plastic bag full of water inside your wall cavity in the case of a leak, causing the water to drain into your insulation and sheetrock or other internal siding and framing.

Furring can be vertical or horizontal as in the case of board and batten. It will drain under the battens to the outside. Gaps at the end of the furring can help with drainage.

Note that many do not experience problems with the housewrap or no furring. Some do and some places have had to be torn down in a few years from housewrap and water problems. Doing it the above way with furring just gives you an extra layer of insurance against problems. Next best if you choose not to use furring is to use felt rather than housewrap. It would cut down your margin of safety, but millions of houses are still standing relatively trouble free that were built with felt years ago.

February 23, 2008, 02:17:26 PM

Furring Strips. Lots of depends. The rainier it is, the more likely your benefits from furring out the siding.

Also the leakier the siding, the more benefits. By leakier I mean vertical board and batten could likely benefit more than horizontal lapped board or full sheets like T1-11.

If you think of the siding as being the pretty cosmetic face and not as the weather barrier you will understand better the need to allow easy EXIT for any water behind the siding.

Commercial buildings, like office towers frequently have a leaky but pretty facade with the real tough, ugly but serviceable weatherproof surface behind it.

ScottA · February 23, 2008, 02:39:59 PM

I agree with Don. Hold the siding away from the drainage plane a little and let the space between the siding and wall breath. Wood construction will last a long time if it has a way to dry out between rains.

MountainDon · February 23, 2008, 02:52:59 PM

And I might add the space has been proven scientifically to need to be no more than 3/8". 3/8" is enough space to break any surface tension ability the water has. The water can't bridge a space larger than 3/8" unless you have a steady stream of water coming through. If that, well then you have bigger problems