electric wiring

[FrankInWI]

tomorrow the LP tank (family will let them in), and some day this week the electric to my self installed meter pedestal and 200 AMP service panel.  
:-/  OK..... I havn't "wired a house" since I did it to a duplex unit I built (the upper half of a bungallow) back in 1989.  What's a GOOD electric wiring book to buy?  How about those Code Check books, should I get one?  

I have MANY double and triple studs in the lower unit...with little or no space between some. (6 Windows, double studs under doubled trusses up top, etc.)     Do I really want to drill holes through ALL those studs!?  
Would notching on the outside, and covering with metal protector be good idea?  
Would going up to the joists and accross be better than going around the building?
Would it be good idea to have wiring on ground level external to the wall, in conduit?

I'm really stuck at the starting gate on this, would appreciate your thoughts and recommendations.  

[jb52761]

Frank...not an electrical expert here but interested in the responses that come in.....I am thinking about running my wires from the circuit box. across the back sides of the ceiling trusses (they're exposed), then straight down through the 16 o/c studs to the outlets on the opposite wall...I won't have to go from truss to truss because don't need outlets on the opposite wall.....jb

[MountainDon]

I am not an electrician, but have wired and passed inspections a few times.

How about those Code Check books, should I get one?  

Are you building to code?? If so I think you know what you need.  
I do think a book that guides you through what code needs will be a good idea. My major wiring jobs have all been a number of years apart and the code guide really helped me do things according to changes in the code, got my work passed, etc. I bought the last one from Home Depot, in the electrical section. Bathrooms and kitchens have some special requirements. I think those were changed in '05.

Do I really want to drill holes through ALL those studs!?  Would notching on the outside, and covering with metal protector be good idea?  

Why the outside? Inside or outside notching would work.  Covered by those nailing plates.

Would going up to the joists and accross be better than going around the building?  Would it be good idea to have wiring on ground level external to the wall, in conduit?

I'd go for whatever makes the shortest or neatest wiring run. Shortness would be a priority with me, what with the cost of copper. As for running outside the walls I'd rather not do that... makes for too many wall perforations, increases the cost (conduit), and looks like you forgot about the wiring while you were building.

Plan out the circuits, see how many outlets (lights and receptacles) you want, what code calls for, etc.... Make a paper plan then see what's the best way to connect it all. Code calls for receptacles to be no more than 12 feet apart.

I like to divide things up a bit so not everything in one room goes dead at the same time if a breaker/fuse pops. Uses more wire but I feel better.

[MountainDon]

...don't need outlets on the opposite wall.....jb

You might need them to satisfy code if code's involved. NEC2005 states that no point along any wall can be further than 6 feet from a receptacle. In other words 12 feet max. between receptacles, measuring into and around corners, not cutting across the corner.

[pointdoggunner]

there is a great book at lowes or home depot
black and decker home electrical wiring...excellent book for the beginner ect...gives all you need to know and general state codes....$22.00 around

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks for the info and welcome to the forum.

[FrankInWIS]

thanks for the good thoughts so far.  I worded part of it poorly.  One option I meant was to run the wires in conduit (or maybe PVC) exposed on the inside walls of the lower (garage).  I mention PVC cause the Home Depot "expert electrician" guy said yes, I could use PVC on top of the wall surface (inside wall surface). Lot easier to work with than metal conduit.  The books they had didn't help me enough with circuit design.  Going to Amazon.

[MountainDon]

I second the use of pvc conduit as you mentioned. I've used it and it's easy to work with.

Do you have a public library near you? I use mine for a lot of reference books. Sometimes it's better than buying if you don't have a long term need for the book.  

Maybe because my Dad did a lot all of his own electrical work, including re-wiring the entire old house, electrical comes easy to me, once I get past some of the code requirements. With circuit design the main thing to consider are the limits as to number of outlets/lights allowed by code, and splitting them up in a sensible manner, and making allowances for any special things you may be thinking of. Like knowing you might want to run a window A/C unit someday, or some electric space heaters, machinery use in a workshop, welder, a hot tub someday, or....

I wish I could walk through the space with you.

[desdawg]

I usually drill everything. I have a right angle drill that fits most places. Most residential wiring is pretty basic. If I am going to have a problem it will generally happen at a light with a three way switch.

[MountainDon]

... problem it will generally happen at a light with a three way switch.

That's where I haul out the diagrams.  

And why 3-way.  The lights either on or off, there's only 2 switches.  :-/

[glenn kangiser]

As I recall - only romex below 8 feet had to be in conduit or covered in a garage, and our old electric in town - pre-1979 was covered with sheetrock in one space between studs only - the romex went to the ceiling through the top plate and homeruns from all rooms were visible above the garage truss bottom chords.  They just took off at random angles toward where they were going it seems - maybe gathered a bit into general directions.  Make sense?  Still the same?

[MountainDon]

I think that's why Frank needs a book that covers the code issues. Stuff changes. Also the local officials may have a handout pertaining to what they need or at least what codes they use.

[Redoverfarm]

Then there are some of us that venture down the path of uncertainty and install a 4-way. Definitely pull out the diagrams. Then an electrician told me to do all my connections for it at the light and drew a diagram for me.  I had so many wires that I had to install a junction box before hooking up the lights.

Don't know where this copper thing is going to end. two years ago I bought 12/2 (250 ft) for $32 and this year it was $63.  Sounds sort of like gasoline.  Now regular is $2.95 and deisel is $3.56.  Someone like to explain that one to me. Deisel for years was always $.30 cheaper than regular gas and now it is $.30 higher. Is it the run on deisel engines lately or have I missed something.  I guess it is meeting the CEO's bonus's.

[glenn-k]

Diesel is a cheaper product with more power locked up in it.  Oil companies saw that they had left too much profit on the table.  CEO's were going to the Whitehouse and wanted more money.

If they make it too overpriced, the truckers and or farmers will revolt and bring the nation to a standstill.

[MountainDon]

...two years ago I bought 12/2 (250 ft) for $32 and this year it was $63.  

Recently I read of a local ce where thieves using some kind of a power puller broke open the exterior power panels on a vacant warehouse and pulled all the copper they could from the building without ever setting foot inside. Cost the owner $54K to redo the wiring.

[desdawg]

I recently bought 250' of 12/2 with ground and it cost me $67.00. Copper is mined here in AZ so of course it costs more here?  :-/

[glenn-k]

As the dollar gets worth less and less due to money being printed without limit for war, prices of things with real value will continue to skyrocket.  Get your deals now because it is only going to get worse.  Soon you will be saying, remember when we could buy a whole 250 foot roll for $67.00.

[jb52761]

Don...in regards to your previous comment about the 6 feet or 12 feet along any wall etc....I have no worries about code here, but should I worry about that 6 or 12 foot span between outlets? I'm confused....and when I ripped the old cabin out prior to rebuilding the new one, there were no outlets on that back wall then either....could you clarify if this may be a problem down the road ??........jb

[Redoverfarm]

Not intending to step on any toes but I think the reason for the 12' spacing is that any appliance could be plugged into either recepticle limiting the cord to the maximum length of 6' to go to either recepticle.  Something to that effect. I'm like you as far as Codes and inspection. Maybe someday but not today.

[MountainDon]

If you're not dealing with code issues the only issue then is whether or not at some future time, something you decide to do you makes you wish there was a handy outlet.

The code placement of receptacles basically means that the distance between receptacles should be 12 feet maximum. You're right John. The idea behind that is to limit the use of extension cords and to prevent the need for those plug in "multipliers".

[jb52761]

Thanks for the update on that folks...hopefully won't want an outlet over there...and half the space near that wall is taken up by the wood stove anyway, wouldn't be putting in any appliances or unnessessary plug-in"s near there......jb

[FrankInWI]

in the electric companies vernacular, they "energized" my system last Friday (they conected their wires and installed their meter in my meter base).  My neighbor didn't call to tell me it burnt down, so I guess all is good.  Can't wait to have electric right there vs running the 200 feet up to the last hook up.  First time through all these "landmark" events, there is something so cool about it. 

My electric books were delivered from Amazon while I was deer hunting with the boys.  Got the generic wiring book, and the code check book.  Guess what I'll be reading in the woods for the rest of the deer season come Thursday! 

I seem to remember 14 3 is pretty standard household wiring.  I know I did a good portion in 12 3 when I did my created duplex in 89.  Is it good to use 12 3 in order to give you a bigger safety margin?  OR, do some go with 12 3 to run bigger circuits, thus fewer circuits.... or a little of both? 

[glenn kangiser]

My reply this morning from the old forum.

14-3 is pretty common for tract homes as it is cheaper - 15 amps max to one circuit.  12-3 is 20 amps per circuit.  Better I think- Never can tell when you may want to use an air compressor in the bedroom.  So - yes -- more could go on 20 amps. 

If you were to use a 1500 watt room heater - window A/C etc. it could come close to maxing out a 15 amp circuit.  It is common to separate circuits by rooms also.  This could influence size choice.

[MountainDon]

Ditto Glenn's opinion re 14 or 12 gauge.

I have about half my house wired with 12 gauge/20 amps. The other half is 14 ga./15 amps and is mostly the built in lighting; ceiling lamps, track lighting, switched duplex receptacles meant for room lighting control, and the like. Those are now all CF or tube FL and come nowheres near the 15 amp load max even with everything turned on. Most receptacles/outlets are 12 ga/20 amp and I have many circuits there so I shouldn't have to worry about having a number of high power items on at one time. Like a vacuum, bathroom space heater, coffee machine, the toaster, the shop air compressor.....

Most rooms have a couple of receptacle circuits, plus the lighting. The kitchen has lots (more than any other than the workshop), so does the garage and the workshop.

[ScottA]

I'd put the lighting and plugs on seperate circuts so you're not in the dark when Glens compressor kicks the breaker off. J/K I hear congress is going to mandate compact floresent bulbs so I don't see why 14 guage wire wouldn't work fine on lighting circuts. Those bulbs only pull about 20% of the power of standard bulbs. Anyone building new really should install them right off the bat.

Scott