Tongue & Groove siding

[Ignavus]

Does anyone have any comments about using 2x6 tongue & groove treated pine as exterior siding?

Similar to that shown here:


Are there any issues with the profile? I believe this timber is normally used to build retaining walls, rather than siding, but it seems like an excellent choice for me (in terms of look and pricing).

Thanks,
Andre

[flyingvan]

There are two cabins in the area that used this, and one has it vertical on one wall.  The door and window trim look odd because the it's really thick.  The joints collect dirt too.  The woodpeckers love it.  Other than that it seems to have held up well

[glenn kangiser]

Pine holds paint good.  Should be fine.  I had a house with redwood siding.. couldn't keep paint on it.

Of course be sure to orient properly with the tongue on top to avoid trapping water if used horizontally.

[Ignavus]

Thanks for that - I should have mentioned that I was intending to use this horizontally rather than vertically.

I was also planning on staining rather than painting. This stuff often comes in a semi-roughsawn surface.

[rick91351]

I vote no - Much for the same reasons of flyingvan - plus I am wondering about warping, cupping, knots loosing and fallout in the direct sun.  Anything like that needs a lot of paint an' putty as my old carpenter uncle use to mumble.  Looks like to me it would be a magnate for insects.  Spiders and flies.......

By the way late sixties and early seventies in the planer mill I worked at we turned out hundreds of millions of board feet of that profile. Yellow Pine, Doug Fir and White Fir.  A lot of it showed up in cabin interiors.  It seemed to be a extremely thrifty answer to a lot of needs back then other than the photo paneling.  Using to one side is solid - other side Veed Edge tongue and groove....
       

[Ignavus]

The knots are obviously an issue, although I'm hoping that surreptitious choice of lengths will help out there. For the cupping/warping, would having it kiln dried and stained immediately make a significant difference there?

Assuming I don't go with this, the other option is probably painted, treated pine weatherboards.

[Redoverfarm]

Thanks for that - I should have mentioned that I was intending to use this horizontally rather than vertically.

I was also planning on staining rather than painting. This stuff often comes in a semi-roughsawn surface.

Bad idea IMO.  It is not designed to be used at least not horizontally as it will trap water and not last.  If and I say if you decide to use it then it should be vertical .  In regards to painting if that is what you choose then wait at least 4-6months for it to dry out.

[rick91351]

The knots are obviously an issue, although I'm hoping that surreptitious choice of lengths will help out there. For the cupping/warping, would having it kiln dried and stained immediately make a significant difference there?

Assuming I don't go with this, the other option is probably painted, treated pine weatherboards.

I like board and bat or battons.  But you will get woodpecker damage. But you will with about any material    Daughter's stucco home next to the Boise River even was damaged by them..........

Wood no matter if KD and treated and painted expands and contracts just the nature of the beast.... Looking at your photo and all the heart wood in those boards keep covered until used and nail well.  Just the nature of short cycled trees and lumber today........   

[NathanS]

Performance problems attributed to wood siding can often be avoided by installing siding over a rain screen. That is, before installing siding you should use furring strips installed vertically, then attach the siding to furring strips.

There really should be an air space behind siding to allow it to dry in both directions & and give any wind driven rain an easy pathway back out of the wall assembly. The cost of furring strips is almost negligible, especially for the additional resilience a rain screen adds.

[Ignavus]

Yes, I'd intended to do that (although I think they're called cavity battens over here).
I was wondering how that would be done if the siding was installed vertically. Vertical battens make it easy to install horizontal siding, but horizontal battens would prevent water draining behind, so I'm assuming they'd have to be some kind of metal strip with holes?

Is this kind of thing fairly standard?

[NathanS]

I don't know about the manufactured furring strips. I have heard of installing vertical furring, and then horizontal on top of those to do vertical siding. Another product is a kind of spacer mesh - this is what will often be used with wood shingle siding. I'm sure that could be used with vertical siding. I think the mesh stuff is really expensive, though.

I do know that board and batten will let more water behind it than your typical lap siding.

Another thing to consider with the T&G is that the best practice for siding is to coat all sides with the finish you are using. Not sure if that would make it difficult to get things to fit together.

From all the research I've done, there are no perfect building materials.. you just gotta weigh out the pros and cons and pick something. That said, for anywhere it rains (>=20" per year), you should have big roof overhangs, a rain screen, and all 6 planes of your siding should be coated.

Rain water control is even more important now than 50 years ago. The amount of insulation reduces drying potential, and many building materials today (OSB) are way more water sensitive than the old stuff (plywood).

[Don_P]

H4... it's treated. I've put up log siding horizontally that was basically this with a curved outside face.  I ran a power planer down the length of the center of the backside to give a bit of a relief groove similar to flooring. I'd get it dry and build a dip tank to stain it. I applied the log siding flat on top of the tarpaper, no spacer, and screwed through the osb into the siding w/ 2 screws beside each stud. Some of those are in their 20's now. I did remove some from one house a few years after construction to add a wraparound on the porch. It was a bear to get off the wall with the screws in the back but had held well and no signs of water damage at that short time interval.

[dgrover13]

The knots are obviously an issue, although I'm hoping that surreptitious choice of lengths will help out there. For the cupping/warping, would having it kiln dried and stained immediately make a significant difference there?

Assuming I don't go with this, the other option is probably painted, treated pine weatherboards.

What kind of structure is this for?  A home or cabin?  I ran an exterior painting business for 10 years.  - I would never recommend painting or staining treated lumber (which is what this is).  Staining will not make it look good unless it was maybe a solid color stain.  Oil based priming and painting might work - but I really don't think it would hold up well.  Your savings on using this 'inexepensive' siding and painting it - will easily be offset by the potential maintenance issues.  Latex priming - forget it - wouldn't hold.  Oil primer - it might hold but I would think within 10 years it would be peeling off.  Bob Vila says its doable - but I just don't think it will (link here http://www.bobvila.com/articles/how-to-paint-pressure-treated-wood/#.VrzvXfkrLUc)

Especially with horizontal siding - moisture will play an issue.  So even if the paint has a good bond - the moisture will cause peeling. 

Staining with oil based stains will bond - but since its transparent the green will still show through.  I just wouldn't recommend it.

If you are going to paint or stain - make sure the lumber has dried out completely. 

[glenn kangiser]

Leave it to me to not read the posting well enough. 

Missed the pressure treated part.

I have seen lots of really bad stuff pressure treated going crazy in warping when drying.  Overall I think the rest of the guys have the best ideas.  Screen wall or asphalt paper underneath is always good whatever it is.

[Ignavus]

This is for a house rather than a cabin, although it's on the small side.

Thanks for the advice guys. Looks like I'll go with a rusticated weatherboard profile instead, rather than trying to cheap out with this option.

Interestingly the weatherboards that are available in my area tend to be treated, although they're kiln dried and with a nicer profile. I assume that means I should look for oil based stains.

[Adam Roby]

...that means I should look for oil based stains.

The Bob Vila article that dgrover13 linked to he says, "Avoid using oil-based paint here; on pressure-treated wood, latex performs much better."  (After re-reading I think that was the point of posting the link)

I think I would ask the vendor of the product what they would recommend first, and then read the label on whatever they recommended to see if their claims are backed up. 

My experience with pressure treated, even when staining it tends to flake off...  never really penetrates right.  This was on a deck that was only inches off the ground so it was subject to a lot of moisture. 

[Redoverfarm]

This is for a house rather than a cabin, although it's on the small side.

Thanks for the advice guys. Looks like I'll go with a rusticated weatherboard profile instead, rather than trying to cheap out with this option.

Interestingly the weatherboards that are available in my area tend to be treated, although they're kiln dried and with a nicer profile. I assume that means I should look for oil based stains.

I used a quality semi-transparent oil based stain for my Board & Batten siding which was white pine.  I also used it on the pressure treated railing and benches. Both were dry when they were treated.  I was after the rustic appeal that would coincide with the logs and blend into the surrounding area.  I would never use a water based stain if oil base was available.  In fact the one company that I originally purchased the stain from quit making the oil base and I had to find another one that did to finish the staining.

Here is a picture of the Board & Batten as well as the pressure treated benches.  Since the photograph the railing has also been stain the same.

[Don_P]

Sitting on another soapbox. Look at the end grain shot in the original post. I suspect that tree is one of ours, it grows like wildfire in your climate. It doesn't produce wood of the same quality, back in the 30's we tried scots pine here, failed experiment. Notice the quantity of reaction wood that is the result of that rank growth. Our radius edge decking tends to use the same type of growth timber unless we source higher grades at a premium. The microfibrils that form the cell walls tend to lie at an angle to the axis of the tree rather than along it. As the wood dries it shrinks lengthwise far more than "normal" wood. When the reaction wood is on one face or edge and normal wood that doesn't shrink lengthwise is in another part of the board, as the wood dries it distorts by bowing, crooking or twisting. If the wood is firmly attached to a substrate it can be held flat but can develop cross grain checking. There's where the warnings on the wood itself are coming from. Rather than sorting reaction wood out of our commodity stream we have derated the strength values (the people in charge don't agree with me there). I suspect that in a university basement someone is working on the "perfect" tree that has no branches and optimum growth rate. Way aside, I had a client one time that wanted a milled log house with no knots. We went for a walk in the woods 

Tanilising is a form of pressure treatment using CCA, which is banned for residential here. It was a conservative measure, we've moved to several other methods that have their own problems. If CCA wood is rinsed and redried IMO it is safe, we were doing neither. The process fills many of the places a finish would grab. The wood doesn't accept finishes as readily nor can they key in as well, they lay on the surface. There's the finishing problems. BTW wash up after working with it and don't burn it, this vaporizes arsenic and heavy metals, you don't want to breath that and the ash is quite poisonous. In your environment untreated wood is highly susceptible to attack. Borate treatment is one option, it can leach out so needs a water repellant coat or some protection. If you go that route from my experience make sure the wood has thoroughly redried or it'll pull to the surface and crystallize under the finish. With everything there are pros and cons, or as grandma used to say "If the washin don't get you, the rinsing sure will".