Al and Robins 20x30 1 1/2 near Lake Eufaula, OK

[duncanshannon]

  Nicely done Al!

[ClaudeM]

Hello, first post here. This is a great site and it is very instructive to see the progress of other owner-builder projects, just like the one that I plan to do in a year or so, when I'll retire. Like so many, I've been lurking here for a few months before becoming a member.

Sorry to ask, but I have a question for Don_P, about the following statement, especially the point saying not to break the beam over the post:

"4 ply 2x12's in #2 SYP or 3 ply in #1 SYP would work, but a double 30' long 11-1/4" LVL works by my math and would be my choice. Do not break it over the post, full 30' or the deflection gets bad."

If I take the formula below for determining the deflection of a bending member, it looks to me that the span L (15 feet in the case of Al's project) is the same whether the beam is broken over the post or not:

(5 * W * L³) / ( 384 * E * (bd³) / 12)

My interpretation, thus, would be that the deflection would theoretically be the same if the beam is cut in two parts. There's surely something wrong in my assumptions, since I'm not an expert nor an engineer. Is there any other math to use? I'll appreciate to learn where are the flaws in my deduction.

Thanks in advance for answering. That will be helpful for my cabin project, for which I figure using a ridge beam.

[ajbremer]

Tuesday Morning - March 20th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Thank you for that comment duncanshannon. And that's a pretty good question ClaudeM, I'd like to hear Don_P's reply myself on that. I'm glad there's no reason for me to break the beam over that middle post anyway. It seems to me that whenever a joint is created, a weak spot is also created. Now for some new news:

Yesterday I decided to take off work at lunch time in order to 'batten down the hatches' here at our place before the major rain storm hit.

I took all of the wood, sheathing, boards, panels, etc., that were laying around the house and stored them under the house. We also lifted the temporary electric line off of the ground so that it wouldn't end up under the water. Storage is one of the main reasons I decided to go with pier and beam style and made my floor almost 5 feet off the ground.

The wind really started to pick up and I began to hear thunder in the distance as I finished storing the wood under the house. At that moment I thought how hard the wind might blow on all of the delicate surface area of the walls. I initially only cut out a few window holes after I sheathed the outside so I thought that the walls would take a lot less stress from the wind if I allowed the wind to gust through the window holes in the coming storm. So I decided to open up all window holes the fast way, with a chain saw. It worked out great and I was amazed at how fast I was able to cut out all the window holes. It all took me about 1/2 an hour. I tried my best to get as close as I could to the studs, headers, and sills as I cut the openings. At some spots I left a little edge where I'll have to come back and trim. At other spots I went right against the studs, barely scrapping them and cut it flush.

My first try at opening a window hole was with a saws-all. It was very tedious and took a long time, I probably didn't have the right blade for it either. Then I read and/or someone told me where you poke nails through the 4 corners from the inside, go outside and pop-a-line from nail to nail, and then use a circular saw to cut out the opening. Using the circular saw with a ladder wasn't very nice, it became heavy, and I had to move the ladder here and there for leverage. Using the chain saw was a breeze! Should I have not used the chain saw? Why don't everyone use a chain saw to open window holes? It seems so much easier than all the other methods.

Yes, the chain saw cuts left the sheathing a little rough here and there ( a circular saw cut is cleaner) but in the end it will all be covered up and it didn't do a bad job. I was pretty amazed at how the house suddenly began to look more like a house once the window views became visible.

Here are the pictures of how the house looks now with all the window openings visible:





And here is a video I took right after I cut the window openings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ7OMwujotg

[MountainDon]

....cutting out windows.....

Chain saw works.  Chain saw is probably more dangerous to the operator than a sawzall, IMO.

Sawzall also work well with a wood cutting blade, fairly coarse teeth. That's the beauty of them; many different blades styles and lengths for different jobs.

Circular saw makes a prettier cut and the cordless ones are reasonably light.

[MountainDon]

Sorry to ask, but I have a question for Don_P, about the following statement, especially the point saying not to break the beam over the post:

"4 ply 2x12's in #2 SYP or 3 ply in #1 SYP would work, but a double 30' long 11-1/4" LVL works by my math and would be my choice. Do not break it over the post, full 30' or the deflection gets bad."

Don_P will come along soon I'm sure; he is recovering from surgery so might not be immediate. However, I think I know the answer, though a little knowledge is dangerous at times. And that is where the issue mentioned comes from... a little knowledge".

When the beam is calculated as broken over the center column as the beam deflects down between columns there is an upwards moment at each end of that segment. When the beam is calculated to be a continuous length with a support at each end and one support in the center things change. The beam still wants to deflect downwards between each support column, but the continuity of the beam changes how it reacts at the center column support. That changes how it deflects. This will also likely change the load on the center column. But as I have a little knowledge I'd be getting myself into another "thin ice" area is I was to speculate on that. I think the load on the center column will be greater with a continuous beam, but not sure.     It is probably going to be carrying the greatest load of all the points in the structure. But that is speculation; don't believe it.   

Online charts, tables, calculators and programs can be very useful. However, it can be easy to get into trouble when one is not trained in the mechanics of structures and the forces that act on them. I think they still teach engineers the way to manually calculate loads and forces. Once they understand the principles, then they use computers too. You can also learn a lot of this in self study, too but have to be careful about making a leap from one thing to another, because not everything can be as simple as it may appear. This can also be said about using tables when we may begin to use the tabular information in ways it was not really intended.

[ajbremer]

Thank you MD,

That's very good information - makes me wish I would have went to college for an engineering degree.

I'm glad I called the ilevel engineer and became sure of my beam calculation using 3 posts.

Here's the ridgeBEAM calculation that was figured for me by ilevel, I have a link to it in a previous
post but I went ahead and made a jpg picture of it:

[Don_P]

 w*Claude,
Don got it, I just had some graphics that might help. They are from DA6 here;
http://awc.org/publications/download.html
Notice the difference in the simple beam deflection formula that you posted, and then what it becomes in the second, uniformly loaded continuous beam formula.



MD was also spot on on the reactions, notice that if we have 2 simple beams joined over a central post, that post would bear half the load but if it is a single continuous beam across 3 posts that center post will carry 5/8 of the beam load.

I'm just self taught but if you want to discuss this further we should probably start another thread and I'd bwe happy to go as far as I can.

[ajbremer]

Wednesday Morning - March 21st, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

I was very involved in thinking that my next step in my build is supporting and putting up the i-joists and then getting the sub-floor on so that I can begin my roof system BUT...I just realized that I think it's time for me to house wrap? It may still be a few months (at the most) till my roof is started and I don't want all that osb getting wet. Even after I had my first sheets up, after it rained a few times I noticed swelling where the rain came down into the upper edges.

Am I correct in thinking that I should immediately house wrap now that I have all my outside sheathing done and window and door openings cut? I've never house wrapped before so I guess I'll have to study up on the subject. Any helpful links, comments, and/or suggestions would be very appreciated.

Also, I hope the wrap isn't too expensive. Anybody know about how much I should buy for my countryplan 20x30x10 foot high walls? I guess I can go to my local Lowes and get it too.

[suburbancowboy]

When I did mine is used 1 1/2 rolls tyvek from lowes.  Easy to put on with two people, pain with one.  Seems like I paid 175 per roll.

[Redoverfarm]

Al I used Dow Weathermate Plus Styrofoam wrap on mine additons at the house and the cabin. Not real sure it has any insulation value but it is thicker and more plyable than the rigid woven rolls.   It comes in 10'X150'.  Real easy to install but it is better with two people.  I believe Tyvex also has 10' wide rolls.  I realize that you may not be ready for the roof but that would be my choice over wrapping the house.  Once you get the house covered ( inclusive of overhangs) then there will be virtually no or little rain on the sheeting.  But then again the wrap should only take you a day to complete.  The Lvl's do not get along with moisture so installing them prior to the roof would not be a good idea.

http://www.cbsbuilderssupply.com/docs/dow_wmp.pdf

Their installation instructions

http://building.dow.com/na/en/tools/installations/wmplus.htm

Here is Tyvex

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100422450/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=hOUSE WRAP&storeId=10051

Lowes Brand

http://www.lowes.com/pd_168290-210-LW1490_0__?productId=3015321&Ntt=house+wrap&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dhouse%2Bwrap&facetInfo=

[ajbremer]

Wednesday Night - March 21st, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Thank you all for such awesome information, it's helping me tremendously.

Well, the build is getting wet again. There was a major rain yesterday, so much that I had to stay home from work because the car got stuck and there was flooding around here...nothing too major though. At least I was able to work on the build today all the way to nightfall - then the rain came again.

I leveled the west ridge BEAM post within the wall cavity and then braced it with some small pieces of 2x6's between the studs. The whole wall was a little out of level so I undid the 45 degree brace boards that I had on top and I put one end of a chain around the post at the top plate and the other end around a distant tree branch along with a come-along. I was able to get it right where I want it. Then I re-braced it accordingly.

I consider myself blessed to be able to live where my build is. I can get home from work, take a few steps, and be right in the middle of the build and work till it's dark. We even acquired a really nice dog that was a stray. We decided to keep him so we took him to the vet, got him all his shots, and he's the perfect pup, about 8 or 9 months old. He's a great dane and lab mix. We even let him in our RV at night with us and he's never gone to the bathroom inside of it. Back to the build.

Here's a picture of the chain pulling on the wall as it's being leveled:





And here's the west post leveled and braced:



And now here is our new pup - Buddy! (Pic coming soon)

[Bob S.]

Young Mix-Breed stray dogs the very best there is. I am sure he will make a great companion and be part of the family.

[ClaudeM]

Thanks Don_P and MountainDon for the information.

Seeing the difference in formulas in both diagrams says it all. My error was that I paid attention only on the simple beam load situation pictured in the first diagram. I completely overlooked the second diagram when I studied the AWCC's document Wood Structural Design Data that I downloaded a few weeks ago.

Wish you the best, Don_P, in your recovery, and Al for your building project.

[ajbremer]

I worked on the last bit of sheathing this weekend. I now just have to finish trimming out the window holes and get the osb smooth to the stud edges because the chain saw left rough edges here and there. Then I'll be ready to roll on the house wrap.



Also, I noticed the scrap metal from when I cut my angle iron and square tube piers so I thought I would make a video that explains the material I used and how I did it. I document the thicknesses and types of metal used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6nN3Qxk420

[ajbremer]

Monday - March 26th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Oh no...

I had forgotten to mention an LVL problem of mine in my last post.

I have those two LVL's sitting on boards above the ground, laying flat, and covered with a tarp due to a massive rain storm that hit our area a few days ago. They are stored off the ground on top of 2x's. They weren't covered with the tarp until I got news of the rain storm.

Well, it rained for 3 or 4 days and it's also been a couple of days since then. Just before dark last night I thought I would uncover the end of them just to get a peak, the top one is cupped and the bottom one is ok. I should have stored them on their edge instead of laying flat, I think that would have helped the cup condition to lesson.

Apparently, the humidity and moisture just under the tarp that accumulated on top of the top LVL caused those wood fibers to contract. I've read up a little on this and it seems that once it dries back again, the cupping will decrease. This is important to me because I have to nail those two LVL's together and they also have to squeeze in between the yoke of the ridge posts that I have up and waiting for them.

This morning, before I go to work, I'm going to go out there and uncover them. There is no rain in the forcast that I see so that won't be an issue. I've also read where clamping them to remove the cupping may not work and could cause them to split.

Lesson learned: I should have stacked them on their edge and I should have uncovered them and wiped off any moisture right after the rain stopped. Also, it would have been advantageous to put 2x's all the way down on top of their edge and then put the tarp over the 2x's. That way, any moisture just under the tarp would have gotten on the 2x's.

Oh well, I hope both of my LVL Ridge beams end up being straight by the time I get them up and into position. This makes me think of another thing. After my LVL's are up and into position, I better be ready to put my rafters on right away and get done with the roof so that any rain that may come will not affect them. I guess I could nail a tarp on the very peak of the rafters if they have to sit through any rain.

Am I on the right track with my thinking?

[MWAndrus]

Flip the cupped one over and see if it will pull the other way. Your problem may fix itself.

[ajbremer]

Thursday Morning - March 29th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Thank you very much MWAndrus, I did flip those LVL's over (and over again) and they look much better. Maybe not 'as good as new' but much better.

Onto the build:

I have spent the last few days house wrapping the house. I bought my 9'x150' roll from Lowes (as you can tell in the pics) and it cost me $98.00 plus tax. One roll was more than enough. After the first wrap around I cut the left over stick (about 45') into 3 sections of 3 foot lengths and only used 2 of them.

My neighbor held the roll and unwound it around the base as I was behind him nailing it, it probably took about 1/2 an hour. I used those short galvanized shingle nails BUT I am going to go back again with the larger washered plastic cap nails. The left over 3' of top row, I did by myself. I had to straddle the top of the wall all the way around while unrolling, holding onto the roll with knee and foot, and nailing all at the same time, that was a work out indeed! Then I used a ladder to do the top rows bottom.

I still have to go back and cut out the wrap where the windows are. I also was thinking about putting some wrap on top of the top plate so rain won't get down the edge of the osb. I already can see where the osb has swelled at the top edges that are exposed to rain. Then I can remove the wrap on top of the top plate on the day I begin the roof.

My guess is that it still may be a month or more before I have the roof on so I really hope the wrap will stay intact on the windy days.

Here's the pictures, North West View:



North East View:



South West View:



Southern View:

[Redoverfarm]

A little late AL but I would have left the wrap covering the windows until you were ready.  Leaving a doorway for entry/exit to the inside.  The cap nails will hold better especially if you have wind as it will be less likely to tear and fray. 

[MountainDon]

Dang it. I was going to say something way back when you cut the holes in the OSB for the windows. No need to do that until you are installing windows.  But it was too late, so I remained silent.

I should have spoke up as I feel the same way as redoverfarm about the wrap. Left intact it helps keep the wet out.  Maybe someone else can benefit in the future.  I left the OSB and the weather resistant barrier to both be cut out at the same time just before the windows were to be installed.

[MountainDon]

If you have thin strips of left overs and cut offs, 1x2, 1x3 type of stuff, scraps of OSB cut into strips and so on, you can nail or screw them over the wrap to help keep it in place in the wind.

[Alan Gage]

I left the OSB and the weather resistant barrier to both be cut out at the same time just before the windows were to be installed.

How do you cut them both at the same time while leaving enough wrap to wrap inside the window/door openings?

I'd think with the housewrap wrapped inside the openings that would keep nearly all the water off the edges of the OSB.

Alan

[MountainDon]

Cut the wrap and OSB with one saw cut.
Use self stick window flashing material to tape and seal the wrap to sill plate, then the two sides and finally the top, being careful to leave the "flap" above the window/door free so it can be placed over the top flange of the window and sealed with self stick flashing. Install window. Apply flashing strip over window flange; do sides and then the top, not the bottom in this step. (leaves a place for any water that makes it back there to get out),

This can be done even before the weather resistant barrier is even installed. Then install the window. Then install the wrap. Then seal the wrap to the window with more flashing. More in the Grace Guide below....

GRACE Vycor Guide

[John Raabe]

Here are some images of housewrap installations that might help.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wrapping+a+window+tyvek&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=9wx&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=voJ0T9qOEYm3iwLs8ckX&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CDoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1290&bih=696

[ajbremer]

Thursday - March 29th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Thank you for all of the responses, that's some very good information.

I have a reason for me wanting to open all the window and door holes after OSB installation and house wrap, the wind and the length of time it will be till my roof is on and my loft joists are up.

Keep in mind that I only have one interior wall in place right now and it's about a 3rd of the way from the west gable wall. It connects the long walls. That interior wall and the bracing along all walls are the only thing holding them up. I didn't want a lot of wind force on my walls because their not as stable as they would be when my roof and my loft joists are in place. So I figured that the more I'm able to decrease the surface area for wind resistance, the less force there will be on the walls.

Also, the season for bad storms here in Oklahoma is coming soon and it gets pretty rough around here. I've read about roofs being blown off once windows are broken and the wind force enters into the house. Seeing that I have no roof, I thought it wise to let the air in.

[ajbremer]

Friday Night - March 30th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

I have a question about a 2x6 interior plumbing wall meeting up to a 2x4 wall where the bathroom door will be. Coming from my west gable end wall will be a 2x6 wall where the plumbing will be for the toilet and hot water heater, etc.

At first I thought about just taking the 2x6 wall all the way to the perpendicular full width interior wall but then I thought that the interior bathroom door isn't made to go into a 2x6 wall?

Do I just take the 2x6 wall to the point just before where the bathroom door will be and then start the 2x4 wall? ... nailing stud face to stud face?

Here's a shot of my 1st floor plan. In it you'll notice the thicker 2x6 wall that goes from right to left till it meets the 2x4 wall where the bathroom door is. How do I make the 2 walls meet?



You'll also notice 2 bi-fold doors, one in a little closet where we plan to have the hot-water heater and the other is the bedroom closet. So I have to figure out my rough openings for those two bi-fold doors. I called Lowes to inquire about their bi-fold doors and they said the rough openings for the above mentioned spots are: 47-3/4" wide for the long bi-fold rough opening and 25" for the smaller closet. Both rough opening heights are: 80-3/4". Does that sound right to you? I think the longer bi-fold in  the larger room is just 2 of them put together?

Here's the link to the Lowe's bi-fold door:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_10757-77999-10757_0__?productId=3406592&Ntt=bifold+doors&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dbifold%2Bdoors&facetInfo=