My backs killing me.

[Redoverfarm]

Just a little reminder to all those able young builders or want to be builders.  Practice good lifting techniques when you are building.  I know the majority think they are indispenseable but I speak from experience.  It may be a year or longer that you develope problems from something you did earlier.  Sometimes you develope problems and can't quite figure out how it happened.  Well If you think long and hard you will probably be able to trace it back to something you did maybe months or even a year earlier.  Here is a few tips.

Lift with your knees not your back.

Avoid bending over and picking up something heavy which is out of your immediate reach.  I know it takes longer to get down or move but not half as long as it takes to have back surgery.

It is easier to push something in place rather than pull something like sheeting, rafters or floor joist.

Invest in a webbed back support.  No it won't make you stronger but it forces all the muscles in the lower back to work together rather than seperately.

Avoid front pocketed tool belts. Use the ones that have the pockets on the side to toward the rear.  That constant weight on the front will fatigue your back faster. 

Avoid off balance transfer of material.

Don't be stubborn. If there is someone else closeby solicit their assistence when lifting objects that weigh at least 3/4 of your own weight.

I can tell you from experience ( back to the early 70's) that back problems do not disappear. They just go into hidding until you do something to aggrevate it again.  Yes there is sugery but even then the majority of persons having surgery will tell you that occasssionlly the pain returns.  This is more prevelent with disc and nerves than muscles.  So be careful and you won't hear it from me. " I told you so". 

To give this post some reference picture this. A grown man sitting on a 5 gallon bucket mixing mortar in a mortar pan with a hoe.  Sort of like fishing huh.

[ScottA]

Good advice all around. My biggest problems come from bending over and shoveling. Very much of either and my back complains mightily. I hurt my back years ago from lifting water heaters alone. It took over 2 years for it to heal up. Unbelivable pain.

[Willy]

I now have to use the kid down the street for real heavy lifting casue my back is trash now. Justs get real painful to work bent over long. I also have bad knees and hands being a electrician for 38 years. Those joints will wear out in time so use knee pads, don't use your palm as a hammer on screw drivers and above all try not to hit the sides of your fist with the hamer on full swings! It will cause nerve damage over time. Mark

[Redoverfarm]

I developed a bad habit years ago with the hammer. When I go to pull nails with the claw instead of getting a board for a heal I just use my other hand to hit the hammer handle to dislodge the nail.    Much easier with a crow bar but as with everything else it's not as handy.  I am probably not alone .  But maybe some people put the nails where they are suppose to and don't have to pull any out. 

[peternap]

That's a good post Redover. I hope the younger members heed your advice.

[benevolance]

yeah I have to warm up my hands in the morning stretch em and work em a few minutes to get em going....Mechanic work is hard on them always busting out a knuckle and jamming fingers...I have dislocated my fingers so many times I have lost count...

As for the back....I have a compressed disk at the bottom of the spine between the bottom 2 vertibrea I now go to the chiropractor and stretch a little...Go on the spinolator once a month and the disk is slowly recovering and I have re-gained the correct angle in my spine so there is no extra stress and pressure on the disks... I strongly recommend everyone go get their spine x rayed it takes like 2 minutes to get it adjusted if it is out a little bit...And now that I go once in a while the doc almost never has to adjust my back... Now that it is in the correct position it will more than likely stay there...And allow it to function properly

I wear an adjustable back brace when heavy lifting...I find it makes a world of difference. Alone without help I still do stupid things like lift rear axles and transmissions and the like all the time....So I try to lift better and wear the brace..

I can once again tie my shoes and put on my socks... I was 29 years old and had to get my wife to put my socks on for me... It was very depressing....it was like having one foot in the grave

Of course moving to a place with a claw foot tub never hurt me either...I soak in it all the time... water so hot it turns my skin to pink...I love it...the soaking not the pink thing

[Redoverfarm]

Looking back at the last week I have figured why I suddenly have been revisited by the back demon.  I keep telling my wife that I didn't do anything.  Well once you have a back problem it doesn't take much to aggrevate it. On Thursday I unloaded 10 bags of mortar.  Something I have done numerous times in the last couple years.  But I guess one (or all) of them was lifted when my back was not ready or in the wrong position.  Anyway I spent the majority of the day Saturday doing nothing but laying around.  I would imagine that today will be spent much of the same way and hopefully by tomarrow it will be forgiving enough to do something.  I can't complain as it is something that usually has to be dealt with 1-2 times a year.  I just hate that I have to get dressed like I am "fly fishing" by throwing my trousers over my toes to get dressed because I can't bend down.  Again I can't stress enough that you have to look out for your body when you are young because the time you are older it is too late. It is sort of like the commercial that Salley Fields does for the drug Bonivia. " You only get this one body"

[peternap]

Sorry to hear it John. I used to snicker at people who claimed they had a bad back....until I had one. Actually, I've had it for years but wouldn't admit it. The worst part is, as you pointed out, you never know when it's going out, until it does. It seems like just holding my mouth wrong will cause it to pop.

[NM_Shooter]

Even lifting "correctly" can hurt you.  I put in a flagstone hearth a year ago, and was moving very large pieces of stone lifting with my legs.  I spread my grip on the stone (~3' diameter) and picked up with my legs.  I managed to compress two discs in my upper back. 

Get help or hire this sort of stuff out.

BTW... I was in a whole lot of pain for three months.  Could not sleep laying down, turn my head, generally in bad shape.  The pain subsided, but as Red said, it is only dormant.  It flares up with activity.

I have found that exercise has made me much, much less susceptible to recurrance.  Especially ab exercises (but do those correctly!).  Don't laugh, but I use a 5 minute ab-ripper DVD that has helped a ton.

-f-

[benevolance]

I noticed that sitting more erect in the car seat helped a lot...And while using the computer... better posture means the back works like it is supposed to

[glenn kangiser]

I seldom have a problem from heavy lifting - it is usually something like a piece of paper that puts mine out.

I did roll a 500 lb or so rock prospecting the other day and give it a shove when it went for my feet-- that sent me backwards onto a pile of rocks  on my tail bone-- that is a bit of a pain in the butt.

[muldoon]

My back is killing me too from this weekend.  I spent saturday hanging gutters and putting in some 55 gallon rain barrels.  Then trenching and burying 75' of drain hose.  Sunday I lugged a 200 pound chipper shredder out to the country and made mulch of a few huge "piles" that have been sitting out for a season.  Add in some chainsaw work as needed and it turned out to be the near death of my back.  I tried to move correctly and safely all weekend, nothing I did was particularly strenuous.  Just the act of bending over and twisting put a number on me. 

To recap whats in this post and my own experience with years of back pain.
To help avoid injury
exercise regularly - I find this to be 100% true.  For what it's worth, fishing from a kayak seems to be very effective for me. 
warm up and stretch before jumping in heavy work
use legs when lifting, back webbing and other general things
use the correct tools
*I would add drink lots of water and dont let your muscles get dehydrated.

Once you have injured yourself:
hot soaking baths
icy-hot or biofreeze salves
good posture
I think aleve works best for me ..  if you want to take medicine.  I dont know anything about the back pain pills like doans?  Anyone else have experience with these? 


-=-
I imagine everyone building their own place has all kinds of aches and pains along the way.  Does anyone have any other things to add to this list that may help us back sufferers?

[glenn kangiser]

I take  3 Ibuprofen and 2 acetaminophen, but I think they can cause other problems if used long term.

I just ask Sassy. hmm

[gandalfthegrey]

Stretch before starting a project.  Move slow when bending, (think of weight lifters, they don't move fast).

Soaking after is good.  Put Epsom salts in the bath water.

[Sassy]

Over the counter (OTC) meds like ibuprofen Motrin & Advil are all the same medication & come in 200mg pills - the most you can take in a 24hr period is 2400mg - IF you don't have ulcers or kidney problems.  These are in the "non-steroidal anti-inflammatory" drug class or "NSAID".  Another NSAID is Aleve which is naproxen - you can take 1000mg day, some docs say 1500mg day... the OTC comes in 150mg I think or may be 200mg.  NSAIDS MUST be taken with food to decrease the damage to the stomach lining - they can cause ulcers like aspirin.  NSAIDS decrease the pain, inflammation/swelling caused by injury & they will also lower a fever.

Tylenol or acetaminophen - max you can take in 24hr period is 4000mg - that is IF you don't have liver disease...  Tylenol is about #5 in the top 10 toxic drug list - one of the worst overdoses we see is on Tylenol - it absolutely destroys your liver if you take enough & don't get help within a short time - the antidote is "mucomist" in large quantities that can be given orally or intraveneously through the hospital/ER...  Tylenol/acetaminophen is basically an analgesic (pain reliever) & fever reducer. 

With that said - I NEVER take the max doses of any of these drugs - I take 500mg of naproxen (prescription strength) every morning - a 500mg acetaminophen at bedtime with some magnesium/calcium/vit D/vit C - magnesium works as a muscle relaxer & most people probably don't get enough in their diet - it also is very important for the heart. 

Another thing I take is turmeric - it helps reduce inflammation - I just take a 1/2 tsp of the powder everyday & wash it down with water - it stains though so be careful not to get it on clothes or anything you don't want yellow.  They use it as a natural dye. 

Anyway, hope this helps anyone who wasn't real familiar with the drugs.

As for back pain - keeping the "core" strong - like someone mentioned earlier - your abdominal muscles, is very important for keeping your back strong.  Crunches work well, you can also lie on your side & do side crunches which helps the obliques & your back even more.  Stretching, using cold right after an injury & then heat later will help - capsacian cream (hot pepper cream), icy hot, Tiger Balm, sports rubs, massage... all those things will help.  People swear by chiropractors - I went to one that kinda scared me because all he wanted to do was the "quick jerk" back into place - when someone is doing that on my neck & lower back, it scares me - the ones who use massage & gentle repositioning of the spine are supposed to be really good - I just have to find one...  my son does massage & gives me a good one at least 2-3x's a month. 

I've had physical therapists, xray techs, doctors as me if I was a professional wrestler or football player in the past or had some horrible trauma to my spine, I guess it looks so bad in the xrays...  my knees & hips bother me more than my back.  Went to 3 levels of "back" classes where they taught you to strengthen it - those were pretty tough & that was when I was still working out on a regular basis... 

Yes, take care of your backs - you won't get another one & I see so many people who have had surgeries on their backs, shoulders, hips & knees that are worse off - so wait on the surgery for as long as you can... 

Chronic pain is a slow pathway to the brain so if you can do anything to fool the brain regarding the pain, it is helpful - you've all heard of the person with a leg amputated who still feels "phantom" pain - has the same pain he had before the leg was amputated - that's because those pain pathways are still there telling the brain "I hurt"...  so, sometimes, it IS mind over matter.  As long as you aren't losing control of your bowels or bladder - that is a medical emergency if it has to do with the spine...   

When I've had severe back pain, the more I move around, the better I feel - if I just lay around, I get stiffer & stiffer - even when I've been so bad Glenn has had to pull me up out of bed & on & off the toilet... ha, once I'm up, I start feeling better.  There is a doctor I work with who is very athletic, does a lot of hiking in the back country by Yosemite & Mt Whitney - he has several discs that are bad in his back - sometimes he can't even sit down to do his computer charting, will stand to do it, but he says that the discs can heal themselves & keeping active & strong is the best thing - surgery is the very last resort... 

[benevolance]

they say that 7 extra strength tylenol will kill you dead every time.. total liver failure

[Redoverfarm]

I am wearing my body out.  Well that is what the Doctor said yesterday.  Saturday I was lifting a aluminum walkboard to rearraign it on the scaffolding.  Suddenly I felt the burning sensation of a swarm of bees stinging between my shoulder blades.  There was no buzzing sound so I soon realized I had pulled a muscle. It was almost impossible to lift either arm above my shoulders. With developing tendonitis in both elbows, pulled muscle in my back and lumbar  fatigue I think it was time to listen to my body.  The Dr said that your body is telling you something.  YOU NEED TO TAKE A BREAK.  Unlike last winter where I had a two month break because of the weather this winter I had none with the exception of 3 days.  I can't stand idleness.  But looking forward to what I have to do and have most of the summer left I have decided to take a few days off to give my body a chance to heal a little.

Been thinking of some of the non-strenous chores that I can do and still get something done. 

God I hate getting old.   

[ScottA]

I know the feeling John. Aleve has helped me with back pain in the past. It doesn't work for everybody but you might give it a try if you haven't already. It usually takes me 2-3 weeks to recover from a pulled back muscle.

[peternap]

Boy...I heard you loud and clear John. The worst pain comes from old injuries. The worst ones are a ruptured disk from my 20's and a knee that I broke in two places a few years later. On top of that I have an Aortic Aneurysm that I keep expecting to blow out. I don't take any pain medicine anymore because I can't really figure out what is a blood thinner and what's not.

I keep a gallon size of Slime close in case of a blowout...don't want gush too much blood before it plugs the leak (That's a joke Sassy)

Anyway, for the most part I just try and ignore the pain unless the disk goes, and then I can't walk, or sit, or lay down...but it sure can't be ignored. I lean a lot on things these days.

[Sassy]

I feel for you guys!  Ibuprofen, motrin, aleve, naproxen, aspirin are all blood thinners & an also cause ulcers/bleeding if taken on an empty stomach, or too much for too long - but good for inflammation, pain, fever.  Acetaminophn (Tylenol) is good for pain & fever but too many blows your liver out as I stated before.

Peter, what type of slime is that?     Might be a new miracle cure!    

I was suffering with severe hip & leg pain (sciatica), couldn't sleep at night, couldn't sleep on my back, stomach or sides  without it hurting, couldn't sit long, stand very long...  miserable - then suddenly it disappeared overnite after having it for 6 mo!  Miracle?  I wonder...  also had 2 really bad knees that felt like knives stabbing them - horrible pain - that also went overnite    Occasionally stab of pain, but not continuously.  My spine is a mess, compressed discs, bulging into the spinal column, broken off facets, spurs, vertebrae collapsed against each other in my whole neck upper & lower back    but I rarely have neck or back pain - I'm very thankful for that!  I've been asked if I was a professional wrestler or football player in the past, the way my spine looks    aw well, I'm just very thankful for the relief I'm feeling right now - I would be in tears during the night, tossing & turning, no sleep or 1-2 hrs - really bad when I would have to work 12-13 hr shifts...  there was no way I could work full-time anymore...  can't do as much around the underground complex but I try to do whatever I can.  I've finally realized I'm no infallible 

Take it easy guys - I'll repeat one of Glenn's favorite sayings to me  "God only gave you so many footsteps in life, if you use them up too soon, you won't have them available when you are old"

[glenn kangiser]

...and I am still the perfect example of a perfect man.

Luckily I don't know what any of the above terms mean so I don't have any of them.  Think I'll run out and take a hike to the top of the mountain.

[Redoverfarm]

Sassy I think he was referring to the green stuff to fix leaks in flat tires. Only Peter or Glenn would think of that.  I didn't take anything for it. I iced it down that night and wanted to see how it felt the next day on it's own without anything disguising it.  Dr. put me on a five day dosage of Steriods to help it along.  I guess I will never be able to be a professional ball player now.  Not that I ever was going to be one.

[John_C]

... I am still the perfect example of a perfect man.)

uh-huh

[glenn kangiser]

Obviously she never was blessed with the opportunity to meet me.

[Sassy]