Al and Robins 20x30 1 1/2 near Lake Eufaula, OK

[Don_P]

Looks like a rookie delivery driver, ours normally circle the site in the mud looking for the deepest puddle to drop everything into.

It's real easy to forget just how much weight you build into a structure stick by stick. Even if they're right, your scales are off, that rafter doesn't weigh more than 25 lbs . If we can scaffold the ridge zone well we  lean the rafters up against the wall and I'll work the wall pulling them up and handing the top to Michelle at the ridge. If the ridge is hairy we'll both work the wall and lean the rafter against the ridge, I'll climb and install and come back down for the next.

I don't like to notch the tension edge of the rafter as in detail A. You can and I have, make the notch as small as possible to get it level on top of the ridge. That "re-entrant corner", the inside corner of the notch is where the shear will concentrate trying to generate a split. We just altered ridge height, refigure before setting the support yokes.

Tack a couple of uncut rafters from ground up to the wall top as a ramp when the floor is done. A rope at one end of the lvl's and a willing partner at the other end and you can push and pull them up to the upper deck. Too much, use a come-along, it'll take awhile but will save a pulled muscle.

Leave the top outside 2x6's of one of the ridge support yokes unnailed near the top so you can spread it a little if you need to to get the lvl's to drop into pocket, then smoke it all tight and full of nails, same between the 2 plies of lvl. You are knitting these members together into solid posts and beams, don't skimp on the connections.

[ajbremer]

Sunday Afternoon - March 11th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Concerning my East gable wall, the support post made out of 2x6's: I'm going to get rid of my middle window and then go from the bottom plate up to the bottom of the ridge beam - it's 19' 10-1/4". I have a bunch of 2x6x10's laying around and I'm wondering if I can stagger the joints and lay them on top of one another in order to get to that mark. There would be no hinge points and I don't see why the strength would lessen.

By looking at the 'Weight of Materials' chart and seeing that a 2x6 is listed as 2 lbs per linear foot, this should weigh close to 200 lbs.

[ajbremer]

This method suggested is how I'll be attaching my rafters to my ridge beam:

Quote of Don_P:
"I suggest 2x12 rafters on 24" centers. The plumb cut on the top of that rafter will be almost 16", the ridge is about 12" tall. I would set the ridge so that its' bottom edge is flush with the bottom edge of the rafter. I would attach 2 layers of 2x4 flat on top of the ridge to provide supporting fill for the rafter upper edges. This will leave about an inch of airspace over the top of the ridge for airflow. I typically nail each rafter up with at least 5 toenails and then come back with 9" framing angles nailed to the ridge and the rafter, 1 per rafter."

That 9" framing angle, whats that look like, is it a Strong Tie thing?

[Don_P]

Check out the L90 here;
http://strongtie.com/products/connectors/L-LS-GA.asp

I'm not sure of the 2nd floor at this point, have you worked out all the supports for the catwalk/lofts?

[ajbremer]

Monday Night - March 12th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Ok, today I started nailing together my first ridge BEAM post that will fit into my East gable wall. I don't have a picture of it yet but I also removed that middle window and everything that had to do with it so that the post can go from floor to beam. It will go from the floor, through the top plate (anchored there with framing angles) and then all the way up to the bottom of the BEAM. I sandwiched O.S.B. between staggered 2x6's then tomorrow I will add the outer plies of 2x6's that will extend beyond the top by 12" in order to sandwich the beam.

Here's a pic of my beginnings:





This drawing is not proportional but here is how I plan to do the loft:

[Don_P]

I just want to say, thanks for the compass orientation on the sketch, makes it easier to communicate 

I'm assuming the west end of the catwalk is supported on a bearing wall. The catwalk spans 10' and is ~4' wide? The east end is supported by an lvl beam. That beam spans 19'1" and is supported only on the exterior walls at each end? Is it a catwalk or are you flooring over the kitchen to the S wall?

What size are the I joists?

Weave the joints as long as possible on the ridge support posts, this may mean cutting and starting with a short piece of 2x6.

[ajbremer]

Tuesday Morning - March 13th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

I called iLevel (Weyerhaeuser) tech support this morning and just to be doubly sure I had the tech person there do some calcs with my LVL beam and my 2x12 @ 24" rafter spacing plan. He did the calcs and he emailed me a pdf file of the results using iLevel's Forte software (I downloaded 'Forte' but haven't played with it yet). The beam did pass the calculations.

He also gave me a multiple member connection chart in pdf format to let me know how to nail my 2 LVL's together. The tech guy over at iLevel was very helpful, took his time, and did a great job of helping me to understand a few more things.

I also found a neat pdf article over at Fine Home Building about using those same LVL's along with i-joist as rafters. The article is very informative and also shows how they used the Strong-Tie supports along with web stiffeners to attach the i-joist to the LVL beam. Even though I'll be using 2x12's and not i-joist (i-joists cost more and may be more technical for me to work with) the article was very worthwhile to read.

Seeing the picture of that attachment made me wonder how my end rafters will meet up to the beam at the very end, that's where those 2 upper and outer 2x6 forks are that cover the beam. Do I simply attach the end rafters to those standing 2x6's?

Here's the pic:



Here is my ridge BEAM calculation in pdf format: (Link Not Available: File Coming Soon)

http://hockeya.com/14x24Pics/ridgebeamcalc.pdf

Here is that Fine Home Building article about the ridge beam LVL's along with i-joists: (Link Not Available: File Coming Soon)

http://hockeya.com/14x24Pics/lvlbeamijoist.pdf

And lastly, here's that Multiple Member Connection chart showing how to nail the LVL's together: (Link Not Available: File Coming Soon)

http://hockeya.com/14x24Pics/multiplememberconnection.pdf

My plan now is to go ahead and get both of the 2x6 post up at each end, and then finish the few interior walls that I have left to do, then the loft i-joist on sistered studs inside the wall cavities, and then the loft sub-floor. After that's all done, I'll slip in the LVL beams and call it roof time! K?

[Don_P]

Your raising script sounds ok.
It sounds like you have a good resource to check the second floor design.

You can use that adjustable rafter hanger on your sawn rafters to ridge as well... I think they are ~$8 each.

You can either eliminate the rafter at the gable wall and frame it like I pictured earlier OR you can attach a rafter to the ridge and the inside edge of the yoke. When doing it that way I notch that wall rafter on the top edge on 2' centers to accept 2x4 lookouts laying flatways. They would attach to the first inboard rafter flush to the top, pass thru the notched wall rafter and attach flush to the top edge of the fly. This is the simplest way to frame that.

I use math to set the tall yoke support posts vertical. Figure height, base and hypotneuse from points you can check as you attach the long braces, then check pocket to pocket at the top of the posts to confirm the length. Brace each post in both directions and remember those braces aren't holding the ridge in place, until you have all the plywood on they are bracing the entire thing, make sure the yoke support braces cannot fail. As you frame the roof, a building is the most tender, and at height, so are you!

[Don_P]

Oh, motorhome roofs don't take to dropped rafters well. Or so I've heard  . You look close to be starting to work overhead.

Edit;
Another thought has come to mind. I think originally the reason for using the sisters alongside the tall studs was to avoid notching a stud that had thrust from above. With the ridgeBEAM there is no thrust. It takes more time but would save some material cost to let in a ledger. If you think you might want to go that way discuss it with the I-level tech to make sure that is adequate bearing. Under serious point loads, under the catwalk lvl's, do post solid down to the floor.

[ajbremer]

Wednesday Morning - March 14th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Well, I removed that middle window on the east gable wall, made my first ridge beam post,
and put it in place. Today, I plan to brace it better for stability.

I had to brace the gable wall securely since I'm cutting the top plate away for acceptance of the post.
Here's a pic showing the 're-braced' wall just before the top plates get cut away:



Here's a good pic of the post finished and leaning against the interior wall:



Using a come-along to help get the post into position:



And finally, the post is in:

[UK4X4]

Thanks for documenting your build so far - I'm always looking at the photos to see what goes where !

I just a rough calc for your lvl on the side of the 8ft loft using Iforte - which I've been messing with for a few months now- so no expert but think I'm getting it right

I took the catwalk as being 4ft wide 40lbs live and 12 dead 1/2 of it being 6ft long

Built by having two beams 4ft apart and planking going north south -8-)

Ie on the lvl you would need two hangers at 8ft and 12 ft from the north wall

I used the same loading for the loft floor at 4ft tributary- even though your joists actually go the other way-

The program gave me 3 off 1-3/4" X 14" 1.9E lvl's

If I use only 8" of tributary for the loft as the joists run paralel then I get 2 off 1-3/4" X 11 7/8" 1.9E lvls
which makes more sence

[ajbremer]

Thanks so much UK4X4

I really want to learn how to use that iForte but just haven't had the time lately. I'm not understanding your calculations and explanations fully. If you could draw me a sketch of what your talking about, that would be very helpful. (I'm kind of lost when you begin to talk about tributarys and the like...sorry).

[UK4X4]

basicly as per your dwg

Your joists go north south on the 8ft wide loft

i did the calculation first as if the joists went east west- meaning half the weight of the floor was resting on the lvl beam- ie 4 ft wide and the other half on the gable end wall just to see what I'd get

then I did it the way your joists run on 16" centers each joist supports 16" width of weight- but the lvl will only see 8" as its one sided
thats the second calc.

The catwalk weight
the catwalk is about 12 ft long- I took it to be 4ft wide- ie two beams 12 ft long supporting for example 2" T&G

So I added two point loads to the lvl where the beams would connect - i did it so the catwalk was centered in the building

[ajbremer]

Thursday Night - March 15th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

I got another load of wood today from the lumber yard. I ordered a bunch of 2x6x10's and 2x4x10's and 1 more 20' i-joist to add to my collection, I now have 6 i-joists and just need 9 more - they run $35.00 each.

Today I nailed the outside sheathing to the new ridge beam east post and I put a few supports in the wall cavity. I need to go upward and still add a few more.

I did me a boo-boo. That long ridge beam post that I just put in, the fork part of it is where the lvl slips into it. The lvl is 11-7/8" so that's what I made the height of those forks go above the seat part. I forgot about the 2 2x4's that I'm going to lay on top of that double ridge beam. Don_P told be the dimension I should have used back on page 15 of my build, he said,

"I would build the ridge support post as 4 plies of 2x6 with a 1/2" osb fill layer in the center. The outer 2 plies extend up 14-3/4" above the center plies to form a yoke that the ridge will drop into and be well nailed to."

I'll use the 14-3/4" on the other west ridge beam post. Will that east ridgepost be alright without those outer forks not high enough for the 2x4's?

I also have to go out to the back yard and get me a nice straight 20' cedar tree that will go right in the middle of the build to support the ridge beam at its exact center. I don't want a massive diameter tree but I want one that will be strong enough. Does anyone know what would be a good diameter to shoot for?

Also, After my loft sub-floor is on and all three posts are ready to accept the ridge beam, is that when I can set it in place or do I have to frame the gable ends first?

Hopefully by the end of this week, I'll have the west ridge beam post up and complete all the interior walls. Then it's time to work on the lofts.

[Don_P]

Your yoke is fine, the 2x4's are mostly just fill and something to nail the upper side of the rafter to to keep it straight. The forks are really to nail the lvl's to, and you got that.

The cedar post... you can check out the column calcs on my website, my gut reaction is to pick a nice straight one that you can inscribe a 6x6 inside the bark on the small end of. Take your time cruising the timber, cedar can hide some pretty good defects. I'd notch a set of forks in it as well. You may want to get it in and standing out of the way before you close up the floor, think about manuevering room either way. Then I'd do the floor and attach the post... this is from my understanding of the build and post location.

Laying out a straight line around a log... get some construction paper wrap it around the log and line the edges of the paper up, trace around the line formed by the edge.

[Redoverfarm]

On all of my standing post I stood up, braced at plumb and then used a flat surface such as 1X or 2X on the floor adjacent to the post and mark on the top edge just rotating it around the post until the line connects.  Of course you would have to be percise with your length in cutting the opposite end.

[ajbremer]

Saturday Morning - March 17th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Yesterday after work I reinforced the east ridge beam post a little more and added more sheathing to the top. A few more little pieces of sheathing up there and all the outside sheathing will be done. Then I'll have to poke all the window holes thru.

I'm also going to add a 3rd top plate 2x6 on top of the east gable wall going from each side of post to each end.

[ajbremer]

Saturday Night - March 17th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Ok, as suggested, we moved our home today - the RV. What an adventure that is, when you live in an RV and then move it around your property periodically. We've been in that one spot 5 feet behind our countryplan build for maybe 6 months, since August 15th, 2011. Also, I know I should be starting it up once in awhile but I don't remember ever doing it. After I've lived in the RV for so long I kind of forget that the thing has a motor in it and can go down the road.

Well, it started right up today and purred like a kitten. We had to cut some trees down and clear some brush but after about 4 or 5 hours we had it in place.

Boy, the view of the house from the back, with out the RV there, is really nice.

Here's the pics of our new look:

[Don_P]

It was actually a dropped house log we bounced off of our roof, luckily a glancing blow. We've had some different camping spots on jobsites. A nice little creek on one job turned into a raging torrent that took a BIG tractor to pull us out of in the middle of the night. On another I wound the 454 quadrabog up and tried to fly to the top of a snowy logging road out west. When my momentum ran out gravity won and back down the mountain basswards we went. Running it into the hill seemed the better part of valor. It took the excavators large articulated loader folding himself back and forth to shove me to the top. He came back out with a dozer to belay me down a few months deeper into winter. Over in Redovers neck of the woods I had come down the mountain into the oldest river bottom on the continent. I had the air doors on the carb wired open so the 4 barrell was either on or off, when you called for it she was wide open throttle. I wanted a good head of steam up to climb the other side so opened her up when I thought the timing was right. I was a trifle early but stubborn with my white knuckles. Hit the bottom of the hill at 90 and crossed the top at 35... I hope John can't write retroactive tickets  Our PO was Smoot,WV... we were Smootians all summer  I enjoyed living on the rural sites, we live in a beautiful country. I could wander around and get the job started while breakfast was cooking and could work whenever the mood struck, or we could still make progress in spurts in less desireable weather. But it sure is nice to be able to stretch without hitting a wall when you're done with the house.

[ajbremer]

Those sure are some adventurous stories Don_P.

Yesterday, when we were moving the RV, there were a few times it didn't seem to have enough power to make it through the soft moist dirt (almost mud) even though I had the RV's 454 floored. It's doing pretty good for a 1985 model though.

Here's a picture of our 30' 1985 Fleetwood PaceArrow RV on the day I went to first look at it around August 1st, 2011, bought it for $3,200:

[ChuckinVa]

Over in Redovers neck of the woods I had come down the mountain into the oldest river bottom on the continent.

Oddly enough called the "new" river.....

[ajbremer]

Monday Morning - March 19th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Saturday and Sunday were pretty big work days here at the place. Saturday we moved our RV to a location about 100 feet away from where it was. Then I had to redo all the lines to it, electric, water, etc.

Sunday I put up ridge BEAM post number 2 on the west gable end of my countryplan 20x30. The build and installation of ridge beam number 2 went a lot better than the first one. I learned a few tricks about lifting it up and placing it into position. I had to have help from a neighbor at the very end of the process of getting post number one in place. I did post number two on my own.

When a 4-ply 20 foot high 2x6 post with OSB sandwiched in the middle of it begins to fall it can be devastating, the thing weighs over 200 lbs and at over 20 foot high it can gain momentum pretty quickly.

It didn't go so well when I made my first ridge beam post. I hadn't mentioned it before but at one time I had it just about standing up against my 20' wide interior wall right next to the north long wall when it decided to slide across it and fall against the opposite long wall. It pried itself into the corner of a stud and outside sheathing. The interior wall is only anchored by being nailed to the long walls and it had one brace in the middle, it probably should have had at least two maybe even three. It also had a joint in it because I made the wall in two sections.

Well, when that beam slid along the wall, the weight of it tried to push the wall over, popped out the brace board that was held in by two nails, and separated the joint where two studs met. It didn't knock the wall over but it sure put a curve into it. I added more braces to it and fixed it up good.

All that to say that I did things a little differently and more carefully when I built post number two. I thought the story of how one guy builds a post like that and puts it in place by himself might interest people so I'll show you my process:

First and most importantly, I begin to build it right next to where it will slide up into place:



Next I brace the gable wall with long 2x4's at 45 degrees at the top and also brace to the left and right off center. I also cut away the top plate to accept the post. I then put a small piece of 2x6 between two studs that will be used as a base to slide the post up with. I saw and pry this away after the post is almost vertical but not up and in.



Now the post is finished and it's time to start lifting it by hand...watch the back - lift with the knees and legs.



Next, I lift it little by little putting the saw horse(s) under it - getting it higher and higher. Then I put a ladder against the wall and used it to rest the yoke end upon as I try to lift it higher wrung by wrung. I had to use a chair and then I used boards across the saw horses to stand upon in order to get leverage.



Higher and higher...



A little more higher but wait, in this picture you'll be able to see something that was most important. The end of the post wanted to always slide back down so I had to put boards laying flat and against the far wall in order to stop it from sliding. You can see them at the lower right of the picture.



Sliding it further and further into position. Now I have the boards on the floor being stopped by the interior wall doorway. You can barely see them on the floor at the base of the post. Oh, one more thing, remember that 2 x 8 x 32 foot long board that I 'was' going to use as a ridge BOARD? I put it in the exact middle on the very top of the building to be used as a temporary brace and support. You can see it going across at the very top of the picture.



Ok, up a little bit more. In this next picture you can barely see it but at the very top you'll notice that I had to nail a small piece of 2x6 on each side of the post at the very top because now that it's almost all the way up, it's barely sitting into it's cavity. It could slide out and down the wall - kind of like my first adventure.



Ok, now I've got it right next to the wall. This is the point where I needed my neighbors help when I did post number one. This is kind of hard to explain but I used the lever/fulcrum principle to move the post into position lastly. Archimedes wrote: 'Give me a place to stand on and I will move the world.' in reference to a lever. I nailed a 3 or 4 foot long 2x4 to each side of the post near its bottom and then pushed them like a lever. It caused the post to lift up and move forward a little over a foot each time I did it. I had to pry them apart and then hammer them back into the same nail hole each time. I only had to do this about 3 times all together. I made a video of how I did it and I'll post it next.

You'll also notice that I nailed to boards on the floor at the left and right of the post so that there was no way that it could slide or go out of position.



Alright, now the post is in and done for now. Final leveling and touch up will be today. I gotta run, I'll post that video later. Here's the last picture of post in place.

[Redoverfarm]

Al it will not be long now that you have that problem worked out.  When you work alone your biggest asset is "thought".  How to manage things by yourself.  I have found that when working with things "larger than me" that a come-a-long can be my best friend.  I also keep a few rachet straps and anchor blocks around to hold something in the interim while I reconfigure my material and thoughts.   

[ajbremer]

Thanks redoverfarm.

I am learning that while working alone, the most dangerous thing is being impatient and getting in a hurry. A person could get 'seriously killed'.

[ajbremer]

Monday Night - March 19th, 2012

Here is that video showing the way I used levers to move the ridge beam post forward and into its wall cavity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6SJIPBliy4