Getting started... quick sanity check before buying land

[duncanshannon]

Hi- (i hope this is a good spot for this post...)

Im in the concept phase of the project... we are very interested in the idea of land and building a cabin. We have a lot identified (5 acres, heavily wooded, mostly flat, 8 miles out of town, no water/electricity yet).

I'm trying to formulate a rough plan to before making a final decision about the land so that I can have some pretty high confidence I wont run into any show stoppers... can y'all help me understand if I'm missing anything major?

- Lot identified.  Its a build-able 5 acre lot in a new 'development'. Plat drawings available. (2.5 hrs away)
- Identified candidate cabin plans (universal 20' is likely). General understanding of 'requirements' to build in the area... cement foundation, min. 768 sq ft, min 6/12 pitch roof, no live stock yadda yadda.


What do I need to do in term of due diligence to make sure that its generally a 'go'?

- soil tests?
- something to qualify septic and well?
- any sort of code / building restrictions (its in north westren wisconsin, so id guess its pretty 'normal' stuf)
- check with power company on cost to run power

Related but prob. not critical path.. should work on a site plan w/ driveway so i can get started there...


Anything else?

[Redoverfarm]

There are a lot of planning steps to consider but you more or less have to consider the big ticket items and how they all go together with your plans.  To me there are three basic features.  Water, Electric and Septic.  These improvements are a must with the exception of electric if you plan on being off grid.  The well and septic can sometimes determine ultimately where the house is built.  Septics require a drain field of a specified demensions and slopes.  The well is determined to where the water might lay. The Power Companies determination of construction plans often interfere with the placement of poles and lines. 

Now that you have determined the placement of the house, water(well), septic, and electric how does it marry with restrictions or codes in your area. But all the needed improvements actually will add value to your land even if you are unable to follow through with your build. 

So in essence I would say to determine the cabin size, locate the most logical place for a site taking in all the needed improvements, contact local contractors to determine the septic placement requirements, well drillers for the best location to obtain water and the power company to determine the best approach for electric. 

Have I missed something.  Probably so but that is what proper planning will do in that you can go over and over your plans to eliminate forgotten items.

[Squirl]

Title Report
Lawyer
A recent certified survey.

These are usually flat fees of a few hundred bucks and well worth it.  This was best money I spent in the transaction process. Especially if it is a subdivision, you have no idea which rights may have transferred to your property.

[MushCreek]

We spent a lot of time looking before we bought our property. First, there is the land itself. Is it in a flood zone? Does someone else have any control over it, such as easements, mineral rights, etc.? Will the soil pass a percolation test for the septic system? What about the surrounding area? Is it right next door to the future County landfill site? A friend of mine found out after his custom home was finished and he moved in that he was very close to a dirt race track, and can't use his lovely porch on Saturday nights due to the noise.

I personally don't like being told what I can or can't do on my property, so I'm in an unzoned area. I went to the city and to the county and looked at their future plans to be sure I wasn't close to a proposed highway or airport. Many properties we looked at turned out to be unsuitable for one reason or another. Many parts of the country have any number of restrictions, and may not even let you build your own place. I would do a LOT of research into zoning, building codes, and other restrictions in the area. You want to ask about permits and impact fees. I've read of people spending $50,000 for permits! Nothing worse than buying a piece of land, and finding out the permits are going to cost more than the house!

Much of the country is or soon will be IRC 2009. There are a lot more regulations about building under the new code, especially concerning energy efficiency. Some areas still have little or no inspection; other places are flat-out ridiculous. Some states/communities are even requiring fire sprinklers in a residence. That all may be fine with you, or it might price you out of the market altogether. I'm not trying to discourage you, but open your eyes to some of the challenges you might face. At least you should know what the rules are before jumping into the game.

[waggin]

"In a development":  Additional CCR's?  Architectural approval, paint color approval, vehicles, rental limitations, construction timeframe, setbacks etc.
Access considerations for fire dept?  ie: driveway, private road standards, sprinkler system requirements, etc.
Well:  Does your state have something like WA's department of ecology which has a well log for all permitted wells?  With this you can get somewhat of an idea of what sort of depth you might need to go.  However, it seems to vary greatly from one property to a neighboring one, so nothing is a sure thing.   Or maybe there is a community water system?
More & more areas are requiring "critical areas studies" now before building.  Does yours?  Wetlands, slopes, aquifer recharge, habitat are just some of the issues that may come up.
Do you need to submit a request for approval of driveway location? 
I recommend visiting the building department with jurisdiction and see how they interact with you.  Are they informative, helpful and encouraging?

These are a few things I can come up with off the top of my head.  There are many others that may pop up.  Befriend some of your potential new neighbors and ask to pick their brains for their experiences.  The more due diligence you do in advance, the happier you will likely be.  Best wishes in the process!

[duncanshannon]

all good stuff. i decided to use a realtor also at the suggestion of a (realtor) friend.  i still appreciate the help here to have the extra confidence in what the realtor is doing. 

focused on well and septic right now...

thx!!

[altaoaks]

welcome duncanshannon , well i hate to bust your realtor bubble, but i used a realtor.  she never dicslosed to me that building permits in the county i bought land in was outragous.  a 1000 sq ft cabin will be in the ballpark of $20,000 due to all of the stupid fees they slipped in (taxation without represnetation AND highway robbery by white collar theives, not to mention double taxation as all of those user fees are also covered in property taxes)

i thought i had done due dilligence, the land already had a well, and the perc test was done and approved for the septic.  electric was within 100' of the building site.  the pad was cut.  electric company owned 160 acres of land bordering 2 sides of the land--no excess neighbors.  the actual building permits were not unusual, 1% of some average $$amount, sounds like everywhere else around here, but the use fees, i could have dropped dead on the spot.  i felt like fred sanford grabbing my heart, looking up and saying, "im coming"!  shocking.  i had expected maybe $5000.  yes, the fees were higher than i planned on spending to build, at least to get dried in. 

im still looking at ways to circumvent the building dept.  i bought the land.  there i am, cornered.  i have a beautiful 2 1/2 acre parcel that i really cant afford to build the way i wanted to build...cash!

another problem i see is where on earth does anyone say on 5 acres that you cannot have any livestock?  what if things changed and you wanted a little self-sufficient homestead with chickens for eggs, or goats for milk or grazing down the high grasses for rattlesnake control?  what if all the talks of food shortages and electric grid problems do occur in the next few years?  you are hearing chatter on CNN, MSNBC, FOX, many different places.  what if it does happen, and you have 5 acres with such severe limitations. 

i think the whole premise of getting a peice of land and building a little homestead includes having more
freedom of choice, rather than oversight.  maybe thats just me, but i would find that highly limiting and big brotherish.

[rick91351]

Sorry when you started in the covenants that soured the milk.....  I am passing on that deal.     No way!!!!  That is also 5 hours out my weekend days off driving.  Not bad once in a while but when you are building it is not once in a while....

Sounded like you have a pretty good handle on things.  However do your own research do not trust anything anyone tells you.  Especially in the real estate field.  Do not assume they have to disclose or tell you anything.  Buyer beware.  Power company, county offices get names and hard figures when you go in and sit down and talk to them.  Most likely they will tell you they will not be able to tell you until you produce building plans.  Tell them you need to know in the ball park $1000 to $500 either way.  You might even bring in some rough drawings and all that.  Most the time they can sort of tell you pretty close.  Get your bids on drives ways, roads, wells and septic need to be submitted in writing and exactly what to going to be done, and materials to be used.

[Squirl]

I third or fourth what everyone said about Realtors.  They weren't any help for me at all.  My goal was to get what I wanted spending the least amount of my money.  Their goal is to get what you want while having you spend the maximum amount of your money.  I liked having a lawyer for the process.  I told him all my goals in writing and told him to make sure that happened.  I paid a flat fee for the closing with an extended right of refusal.  He knew the right questions to ask, and he got paid whether the deal went through or not, no matter what the price.  He also has malpractice insurance if he screws up.  A few years ago when I bought my place, it was around $500 in a rural area and $1000 in an sub-urban area.  Prices may have come down. Many real estate lawyers are still hurting for work.

[altaoaks]

not to try to drive a point into the ground, but realtors are in deep dodo!  they were making obscene money for all of the last 5 years until housing tanked.  their average income is less than 1/4 of what they were earning in 2006.

imagine if your income fell sharply and your high faluteing way of life was threatened.  imagine your a realtor who moved into a bigger house with a bigger mortgage which is also underwater, with a new mercedes or hummer with a fat payment, new furniture, big credit card debt...and a HUGE drop in income.  well that about sums up most of the realtors in US over the last 2 years. 

so even if a realtor is your very good friend, even if that realtor is basically a very honest person, bottom line is they really need the income from that sale!  so im not saying that realtor will lie to you, just not willing to dig deep and jepordise that sale, that several thousand dollars commission that will save their bacon for a few more weeks.

the 2 1/2 hour drive isnt so bad, many people drive further than that and succeed in their building goals.  really that just depends on each persons confort zone.  for me, thats nothing.  for someone else it may be really unacceptable.

i personally really hate that they have such control over what you can do on your land regarding livestock.  today you may not plan on any livestock, but you do not know what tomorrow will bring.

in 1978 my ex-husband and i bought 18 acres in three rivers, ca.  that is the foothills going up to the sequoia national park.  livestock was not in our plans, but we had 3 kids.  on a whim i saw an add for a paint donkey for sale for $50. he belonged to a mexican family and was said to ride with as many as 5 kids at a time.  well, he loved kids, and rode with all three of mine for years.  the way i found out where the kids were was to stand on the deck and look for the donkey, he followed the kids like a dog.  well, i didnt ask my husband if he minded, i just bought him, borrowed a cattle truck and delivered him to the property.  we were building at the time, and it was an hour drive.  my husband had the house framed, and set up a bed in one of the rooms so he could sleep there while building.  he found out i bought a donkey at about 2am, when something was slobbering on his face through the studs.  he was a little afraid being up there alone anyway, and his dream became a nightmare (seriously, he incorporated it into his dream) and awakened to a very loud hee haw directly over his head.  first thing he said when he got home was a very loud "you bought a donkey!"  but he loved that donkey.  after that we ended up with a couple of horses and some cattle.

moral of that story is, do you really want to move out on a rural 5 acres where you have none of the rghts that go with most rural property? do you have kids, or grandkids?  do you have a spouse like me who does and then lets the chips fall where they may?  are you expecting any of the above in the future?  if there was a disaster or food shortage would you want the option of having goats or chickens?  well even if i never got any livestock, i would want to make that decision.  if i wanted that kind of micro-management i would opt for a condo.

[duncanshannon]

Hi guys-  thanks for the input as well as the concerns - its appreciated.  at this point i'm not concerned about any restrictions that might be involved with the covenants - they are pretty light.  House has to be min 768 sq ft, on a perm. cement foundation, no junk car/boat storage, no haz materials storage etc. stuff I'm all ok with at this point. 

Only one question so far... the road maintance is shared by the other 21 lots... need to figure out what that is all about and how much it costs.

I'm deff. not relying on the realtor to provide a ton, other than someone to write the purchase agrement etc. Looks like its going to cost me $300 for the pleasure of working with his brokerage (and he gets paid by the listing agent). He was a friends referral so i'm thinking i will be ok w/r/t the realtor.

I talked to a guy about a well who lives near there. Thinks a well will be about 120' deep. Electric is pretty far away and they want about $5 / foot plus a base charge of about $500. My best guess is that its about $5000 away right now! (here is to hoping someone else builds in that area before I do to help break down the cost!)

proceeding cautiously.... and triple checking my work thanks to you guys trying to freak me out (just kidding)!

[altaoaks]

just trying to think outside the box duncanshannon.  dont think we are against you, just giving food for thought!  i wish i had these folks help when i was just looking for land, i would have dug deeper and looked elsewhere!  most of us havent met, but we are a family of sorts, once you are one of us, you get the honor of listening to us...all of us!    one big happy family.

[rick91351]

Most states you can check well locations and depth on a drillers or well log.  Though it will not tell you how far they will have to drill it will tell you depth of wells in the area and water available in them or gallons per minute.

I have not checked power in the last two years but that sounds in the ball park.  Do not expect others to stand in line to help pay when they know someone else is going to.  Thought of solar?