Glenn's Underground Cabin Update

[glenn kangiser]

It's working great, Ben.  Thx.

[uncle]

Glenn,
I've spent the last few days reading through your thread.

I have been educated as well as entertained.

The worst part is now I have to build. I've been through Malcolm Wells', Rob Roy's and Davis' writings. I've researched the Poured walls and Cast ceilings, Dry Stack blocks, Pressure Treated framing and so on. I must say that the PSP method really makes sense.  I have questions going through my head, do I buy a sawmill, what materials do I need, Should I start small or go yard, what can I do with what I have....?
I have a tractor and dozer. I have the land bought and paid for. I have two pond, a well and city water all on the land.
I guess it is just up to me now to start. I have all this motivation so I need to put it to good use.

My 11 acres has a near perfect east/west ridge that will give me near perfect southern and northern exposures. The ground has a lot of clay/shale but nothing too bad.

I guess i just wanted to say, your an encouragement and I'll get off my rear and get started soon.

Brian

[glenn kangiser]

to the forum, Brian.  Glad I could bring a few ideas to mind... hate to think that I post this drivel for nothing.  

What area are you in?  

As to the sawmill, I really like mine - sometimes use it often - sometimes it just sits but is ready for when I need it.  A consideration would be access to trees - logs - if you have reasonable access to trees you will likely use it for the rest of your life.  Enough trees and neighbors may contribute to get wood cut or trade help for wood etc.

You could try a small utility building to see how you like it and work with the PSP for the first time.

I also have read most of the books you did.  None of the others make sense compared to Mike's methods unless you are loaded with money and time and want to live in a "Concrete Terrorist" house.... that is what Mike called them

Also - feel free to ask questions - I'll help with what I can.

[ben2go]

Glenn,
I've spent the last few days reading through your thread.

I have been educated as well as entertained.

The worst part is now I have to build. I've been through Malcolm Wells', Rob Roy's and Davis' writings. I've researched the Poured walls and Cast ceilings, Dry Stack blocks, Pressure Treated framing and so on. I must say that the PSP method really makes sense.  I have questions going through my head, do I buy a sawmill, what materials do I need, Should I start small or go yard, what can I do with what I have....?
I have a tractor and dozer. I have the land bought and paid for. I have two pond, a well and city water all on the land.
I guess it is just up to me now to start. I have all this motivation so I need to put it to good use.

My 11 acres has a near perfect east/west ridge that will give me near perfect southern and northern exposures. The ground has a lot of clay/shale but nothing too bad.

I guess i just wanted to say, your an encouragement and I'll get off my rear and get started soon.

Brian

Welcome Brian.Have a read on Glenn's other thread,if you haven't seen it already. http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9098.0

[uncle]

I'm in Arkansas and have been living in a Cedar log house(2,100sqft) that I built 20+ years ago.
I love the wood and the exposed beams, but they are not energy efficient at all. If I could bury my log home I would. Mike's system is as close as I have found.
I want a root cellar and saw some of Sepp's designs, so I was thinking I could start with a root cellar and a shed to be used for PV system to come later. This will get my feet wet and see how it goes.
Thanks,
Brian

[glenn kangiser]

Sounds like you might be a crossover from Permies.

I haven't seen Sepp's designs but would be interested in looking at them.  Is there something online?

[uncle]

I did see it on the permies site. It really looks like you dig out a wedge, PSP construction, vent the floor and ceiling, Log roof and cover with dirt.
I think it will help me hone my PSP skills prior to tackling the living structure.
Brian

[glenn kangiser]

I think it is a good idea.

Let me know if I can answer any questions.

[glenn kangiser]

My steer decided he wanted to start going over the fence and taking a casual stroll around the mountain top even if he had just been fed.  That has always been his problem and is why he was the first one brought here from the field.  My 2 heifers are still somewhere out in the bush about 20 miles away.

This weekend I introduced him to Mr Electric Fence.  I think that may make him decide to stay in the corral.  I saw him take a decent hit on the nose last night.  I think he has the idea now.

I know it is working decent especially if he pushes it a bit - there is grounded non-climb or animal fence a few inches farther.

I just happened to accidentally get across the two of them checking voltages with a tester....... [ouch]

[OlJarhead]

Ya know, what a grand idea -- I was trying to figure out how to stop the free range cattle from bashing my fence down when they decided to cruise through (which is nightly or daily depending on their desires) and this might do it!

Put in a solar/electric fence just in the area where I want them to stop.  I've opened up the gate so they can use it until I fix other areas but this would work I think....

Hmmmm

[speedfunk]

Looking good Glenn!!

[glenn kangiser]

Works even better where you can wet the ground a bit, OJ.  Also I put the grounds ( 2-  8 footers ten feet apart) where I can run a bit of water on them as I fill his water trough.

Thanks Jeff.  Nice to get a compliment when I get up off of my lazy bum and do something. 

[OlJarhead]

Works even better where you can wet the ground a bit, OJ.  Also I put the grounds ( 2-  8 footers ten feet apart) where I can run a bit of water on them as I fill his water trough.

Thanks Jeff.  Nice to get a compliment when I get up off of my lazy bum and do something. 

Never thought about grounds -- DOH!  Guess I'll have to put some near the fence and tie into them.

I can see doing this in several spots around our land but with one side completely open it will be tough to keep them out.

Though, I don't mind the cows keeping the grass down, I just don't want them bashing the fence down too!  Which seems to be there thing.

[glenn kangiser]

If your ground is damp you can get away with a couple or three near the charger then a wire for a long ways - even miles - you can get a tester to see how effective it is.  I think you could use your non-hot wire fence if you had one to exted to other ground rods along the way although the instructions mention adding an insulated ground along with the hots and running extra ground rods every so often.  You need the ground conductivity to add to the shock effect.  Dry ground is less effective as it insulates better. 

You can get a 5 light checker  ( $12) that tells you the intensity - 3 lights or 2000 volts is supposed to be good enough to stop them.

[glenn kangiser]

With good grounds , a single wire across the open area at 32 to 42 inches should keep them out.

[ScottA]

I've never seen an electric fence work on cattle, some people use them for horses. 4 strands of barbwire will work though.

[glenn kangiser]

You might be right, Scott... Whitlock says he may go through it too.

He could be hamburger sooner rather than later if he keeps it up.

[glenn kangiser]

Guess I could get out there with more barbwire also.  [ouch]

[OlJarhead]

I've never seen an electric fence work on cattle, some people use them for horses. 4 strands of barbwire will work though.

I got so tired of the cows crashing through my fence I put FIVE strands of barbed wire and some tangle wire -- they tore it out and kept on going!  SHEESH!

[ScottA]

I've never seen an electric fence work on cattle, some people use them for horses. 4 strands of barbwire will work though.

I got so tired of the cows crashing through my fence I put FIVE strands of barbed wire and some tangle wire -- they tore it out and kept on going!  SHEESH!

LOL! Yup they can do that. Must be some wild cattle. I've seen Elk tear down fences before too. Building good fence can be tricky. I set T posts every 24' with stays at every 8'. Your corners have to be solid and the wire needs to be tight. For corners I use 2- 8" round posts set 3' deep with a brace between them.
Glenn for your steer you could use some cattle pannels around the lot.

[rick91351]

I don't know Scott we use electric fences here and keep them in really well.  However they do need to be kept up.  You need to walk them from time to time and trim back branches and grass.  You need to look at the insulators and make sure the birds are not grounding them out with their crap.  Glen is right they do need a good ground.  Most of the time if they are getting out it is because the fence has shorted out. Some time you will check them and it looks good yet and hour latter there is one out.  Look for the some times short.  Also some critters will jump a fence.  Some can do a standing high jump flat footed or hoofed as it might be and not touch a fence.  There is another thing that happens they cows can often times tell when it fence in hot or not.  If it is not they will take every advantage.   

[Redoverfarm]

If your ground is damp you can get away with a couple or three near the charger then a wire for a long ways - even miles - you can get a tester to see how effective it is.  I think you could use your non-hot wire fence if you had one to exted to other ground rods along the way although the instructions mention adding an insulated ground along with the hots and running extra ground rods every so often.  You need the ground conductivity to add to the shock effect.  Dry ground is less effective as it insulates better. 

You can get a 5 light checker  ( $12) that tells you the intensity - 3 lights or 2000 volts is supposed to be good enough to stop them.

If you are using metal "t" post then running your ground wire to those with Non-insulator clips will allow the T-post to act as a ground rod.  Glenn on another note you should have a mineral or salt block for your cattle.  It is essential for their diet. Scott you learn something new everyday.  I recently built about 500 feet of woven wire high tensel fence. The guy that helped me showed me a new trick on brace post.  I always used a sticker and twisted the brace wire.  He showed me how to just use the brace wire by itself without any wooden twist.  Really cool and a lot easier to install. Kind of hard to explain the simple procedure but if anyone is interested I will snap a picture and explain.

[MountainDon]

Picture would be nice. 

[glenn kangiser]

I gave my steer a salt block even though the feed store said I did not need it, John.    I read a college ag report that said I did.  He loves it.  He has licked 2 deep indentations in it.  

When I was a kid I used to lick in the bottom of  the huge indentations in my uncles cattle's salt block because being extra smart, I figured that they could not get their tongues in that deep indentation... you know ... I figured that they would just lick the flat part.  

I understand what you are saying there, John and it seemed that way to me - just that the instructions explained it funny or maybe didn't make sense.

What I have is 3.5' high no climb or small animal fencing around the outside with a single strand of hot 4 barb wire running at around 38 to 40 inches average around the inside and about 1 to 5 inches or more from the grounded no climb with t posts.  A nose touch standing on the dry ground will be gentle maybe --  a bit farther and he will hit the grounded no climb and a pretty wild teeth jarring shock.... don't ask me how I know....  

Yes the incident above - I got across the grounded no climb and the hot wire with the voltage tester..... I thought I was clear but... zap.... What the h... How'd I do that.... yup - it got my attention...

[glenn kangiser]

..and the brace - John - pix please.

I invented a new way to do the brace too.  Too steep and crooked for the Bobcat post auger so I drove T posts well into the corner or brace location.  I kept them about 7 feet apart.  I took an 8 foot 4x4 and drilled two  1 1/4 inch holes with my Makita portable 18v drill, about 6 inches from each end, then took a 4 lb. sledge and slammed them onto the tops of the posts.  I get quite a few free 4x4's and they last well here above ground even untreated.

I then wrapped my barbless brace wire around it well to hold the 4x in place at the top and twisted it up with a stick to the bottom of the opposite post at the other end.  No post hole digging and very strong.

Maybe not good enough for a real cowboy but better than a lot of fences around here.  [ouch]

About 20 minutes for a brace complete I think.