900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY

[speedfunk]

You bet ya Glenn!!  Thanks Glenn for checking on us and keeping us straight!  

The horizontal purlins (4" furring strips).  Will be screwed onto the vertical furring strips (3").  I've seen people just put the horizontal purlins on then tack the metal to it.  This to me seems like an awful idea.  I know the idea of "thinking like your rain" gets mentioned on here and for good reason.  Why put a wall in the way of draining water?   I called the synfelt sales rep, if I recall right I think it was 6 gallons of water can form underneath a metal roof , depending on sure on many variables such as roof color and the temp differential between the home and the air.  So giving the roofing membrane under the tin and easy way to shed water that may accumulate seems like a good idea ( per firstday design)

Misc detail that we learned the hard way.  The piece that attaches to the panels (LOOKS like angle iron) ( which are the edges that the metal roof butts up to) are supposed to "float".  They have slots in them where the screws need to go.  If you are doing a standing seam make sure that the first layer of vertical furring strips  have no screws sticking up where the strapping purlins (as glenn puts it) are going to rest on.  Luckily we had to do the roof over anyway on our first attempt b/c I didn't like the tyvek being the outer membrane.  ah the learning curve...

I been thinking of the really neat parallel between most of you that build a small structure first then a bigger one.  In our house incidentally we have the small bedroom and then the big rest of the house.  This allows us to do that same thing others do.  Learn first on the small structure , figuring out the details with trial and error then applying what we learned the bigger roof.  If gives us both a system and an idea of how long the rest of the project should take.  Just something i felt worth sharing...

back to fixing computers.
Jeff

[glenn kangiser]

I figured you had it covered but thought I'd ask.  Like a rain screen wall - then I assume you will have some kind of vent or open ridge cap at the top for a bit of air flow.

Good job.

[speedfunk]

I try to have it covered but a lot of this I'm kind of making up , trying to make sure to keep good design principals in mind ?  I am kind of nervous about the metal part esp the edges being that the book gives instruction based on solid decking.  It has purlin details but they wont work with the gutter etc.

I just realized I explained the rake part with the wrong terms... this is why I prefer pictures lol.  Fixed now.

Yeah glenn, the top of the roof has a vent with 4 foot sections of plastic acting to stop / slow water from getting in the top.  On the bottom I am really not sure the detail we are going to use. It will probably involve framing out the sofit ( i think thats the right term aka under the roof edges).  Adding a screen to allow the roof space to breath in the framing.  This will also support the gutter which could have substantial weight on it.  Im just hoping it works its self out.  Other parts of the project have so far so who knows.  
Thanks again glenn, your thoughts are always regarded highly.  

[glenn kangiser]

The rake trim I have used goes over the outer high rib of the sheeting and as you say - rather floats in or out to allow squaring it at the outside edge.  We just fastened it down with self drilling fasteners or stitch screws (like wood screws) as necessary - nevermind their slotted holes if they are in the wrong place.  

You do have to be sure to stretch or shrink your roofing to get it into the space that is covered by the rake trim - or else it is mickey mouse time with various caulking and other things that are not as good as doing it right.

That is if I am picturing what you are telling me correctly.

[brucel]

Deb and Jeff, thanks for sharing all this.

I'm just starting a PAHS home in France.

I wanted to ask if you plan on putting temperature and maybe humidity sensors under the umbrella? Would be nice, in view of the absolute unavailability of any such data.

Thanks
Bruce

[Bishopknight]

Hey Jeff and Deb,

You guys are doing an amazing job. Good luck with finishing the roof!

[drainl]

We had some wet days (and another typar repair), so we did some more SBC. It was nice to change things up. We probably only have 2 days left of SBC. Of course, after we're done, we have to put the blue board up and do the outside all over again, but with 1/2 the house bermed it won't be quite as painful.







After a short trip, we got back to the roof. 3/4 done with the large one! I priced out insulation today, which we need to finish the last section. Yikes – we really saved a ton of money getting most of it used! If all goes as planned, the insulation will be finished by the end of this week. There might be some metal on there one of these days! The roof work hasn't been all that gratifying. It's something that needs to be done and doesn't add much appearance wise to the house. Plus we've been working on it so long we're really ready to move on!





Life should be slowing down a bit, so we'll push working on the house. We don't want to be doing the exterior SBC and interior flooring in the cold. Idealy we'll spend the winter cozy inside doing fun things, like wall paint, kitchen and bathroom! I think that was our plan last year too.   

[drainl]

With a couple of days of heavy rain, we had to move inside to work. The moat was working well!



It was a good time to pour the floor in the crawlspace. Working on this section isn't high on the priority list now, but it's great for those days we can't work outside. We used pea gravel this time for the mix and it took some getting used to. After a few batches we were in a rythmn.











Today the floor was mostly dry. It's not perfect but good enough! While Jeff did some roof work I started roughly laying out the blocks for the wall. It's great seeing the pit finally taking shape! It'll be awesome once we can backfill. Then we'll have a much clearer idea of the floor space in the house.





The little guy has a new pet at the land – a worm. He even took him for wheelbarrow rides!

[Bishopknight]

Congrats on the moat. Nice vapor barrier below the slab you poured.  

Also, I thought you might like to know I finally attached the 2" blue board to the block walls. I used 4 inch long 1/4" blue tapcons w/ an inch & 1/2 washer to hold it down. In some cases I did it over the MIRADRI. I'd take a pic but you've done it on your roof so there's nothing to it. 9 out of 10 have held well so far. 1 stripped due to over tightening.

[speedfunk]

Glenn:  Yeah I think I am using the wrong term.  The piece that floats on the purlins looks like angle iron.  It will be much much clearer in the pics when we get there lol. 

Bruce:  There is a bruce at the paccs/pahs forum is that you?  Anyway.. I have giving little thought sensors.  I think I need at least one , most likely two.   One temp sensor about 4 or 5 feet off the back wall under the insulation and the same up front on the south side.  I think I would just like an overall of how the temp is going so I can moderate the input of solar input through the external collectors.  Moisture sensors I think i will pass on.  The north bermed wall footer drain will tell me that.  I could even get a reading from back there if needed through the conduit for the incoming water pipes. 

Can you think of any other reasoning for putting moisture sensor in?  BTW when you build I can wait to follow it.. hint hint    

BK:  that is really good to know it worked for ya.  It seems to be the most secure way to fasten the styro on.  I think we might use a combination of glue and tapcon concrete screws.  We are actually fast approaching where we will be putting on the blueboard to the outside.  B/c of our roof rafters not sticking out per convectional roof we have to have the blueboard insulation on first so we can fasten the roof framing to.

thanks all for the nice words

[speedfunk]

Update:  Just got done today and had to jet to work.  Deb and I had to pickup some extra insulation b/c we ran out of poly iso.  As lucky would have it one of debs co-worker/friends are also building a really cool home and had a bunch left over in 4x4x2".  In a perfect world it would be 3" so we are having to get creative with peices that somehow bridge that divide and overlap the best we can. 

This stuff was 1/2 the price of new and had no nail holes which was nice but still needs be trimmed piece by piece, which like the rest of the used insulation adds time.    Time vs Money, so true.  But we have saved a lot of money by using the used polyiso and think its worth it.  Itchty though 

The concrete pad we poured came out pretty good I think.  We batch mixed it and it took 5 or 6 hours I think.  The crawlspace walls are now drystacked and parged and backfilled.  Pics to follow , we lost our camera. 

[brucel]

Bruce:  There is a bruce at the paccs/pahs forum is that you?

Yep, that's me.

Anyway.. I have giving little thought sensors.  I think I need at least one , most likely two.   One temp sensor about 4 or 5 feet off the back wall under the insulation and the same up front on the south side.  I think I would just like an overall of how the temp is going so I can moderate the input of solar input through the external collectors. 

I'm hoping to put in a series of sensors to check out the reality of the way heat is moving seasonally through the earth around the house. There is little data available about PAHS performance, so I will try to make a real effort in this area. The original Hait house had a lot of sensors but I've seen no reference to follow-up data from them except Hait's occasional references. I like the look of the 1-wire system used by Phil & Lisa Malone in Maryland. See  http://www.ourcoolhouse.com/scada.htm

Moisture sensors I think i will pass on.  The north bermed wall footer drain will tell me that.  I could even get a reading from back there if needed through the conduit for the incoming water pipes. 
Can you think of any other reasoning for putting moisture sensor in?

I have clayey soil and the rate of conductivity of clay is directly dependent on the humidity content (completely dry clay has very low conductivity). It might just be TOO dry under the umbrella. It will be interesting to see what happens to moisture content under the umbrella over the years and how this affects temperature changes. So I'll need moisture sensors too.

BTW when you build I can wait to follow it.. hint hint  

Yes I must get that off the ground. This board seems a pretty good place to do it judging by your well-illustrated efforts.
Bruce



[/quote]

[drainl]

Work on the roof and pit continue!

The back side of the roof covered –



As we said, we were short on insulation for the last part of the roof, but luckily a co-worker who's also building a house had some extra to sell – perfect timing! The sizes were different, so it took some extra time and layers to get everything matched up with the rest of the roof





It's also been great seeing the pit take shape! First the corefills were done and the walls were parged. Then the wall was backfilled with the pile of dirt we had loaded in the doorway this summer. Makes the place a little roomier.





Sill plate


Then on to wood for the sub floor! The top of the 2″x12″ plus plywood will be level with the concrete flooring in the rest of the house.





All framed out! We just need to add 2×4's under the floor joists.



The view when standing in the pit – not a bad work area! We'll get all the plumbing in before putting on the plywood.



We have a lot of we want to get done before the weather gets too cold.  Luckily these days we have tasks to do both indoors and out, so we can be  flexible. Being knocked up again, I'm better at napping in the gravel pile than helping Jeff, but my energy level should improve soon!

[Dog]

Wow guys! Looking really good! 

It's so nice to see the great progress you're making and seeing your son growing up. What awesome memories he will have of this life experience 

[drainl]

Thanks Dog!  Our son likes to help us work so we try to give him little projects to do.  Usually we just end up with a mess to clean, but he has fun and stays occupied! 

Once the roofing insulation was done we cleaned up and shipped out all the leftovers. It's nice not to look at it anymore! We put some plywood temporarily on the bathroom floor so we can move items out of the way and prepare for the flooring. It's always better working in a clean work site!

Before pouring the floor, we need to run our electric, which will go under the floor and up into the block. We took some time to mark all the outlet & light locations. The trick is making sure they go where there are no corefills. Sometimes it took a few tries.







We had to use underground wire which cost a bit more.





Jeff ran some empty conduit too just incase we need to add anything down the line.



We're making good progress! Can't wait to have a floor.   

[drainl]

The roofing has gone pretty well as weather permits.  We started with the little roof, so we could learn from any mistakes before doing the big section.  First we put on the 1x4 horizontal strips and then squared up the bottom one. 


We doubled up the bottom 1x4 and used a 2x4 for support behind the gutter. 


After lots of manual reading, we started with the metal!  The gutter goes on first.  It took a few tries to figure out the pop rivet tool for the straps.  It's easy though and makes a real nice finished look. 


Then the offset.  This is the part the roof panels slide onto so we don't need any exposed screws. 


There's some prep work to be done on each panel, but once we got into a rythmn it wasn't too bad. 






Panel #1!


The panels are the quickest part - and most gratifying!  It was fun to stare at the roof.


Jeff tackled the front half on another day.  It's really best to do with at least two people since there are so many steps.


Some panels could be pushed right up and others needed some encouragement.  The 20' panels should be interesting!


We decided to hold off on the trim and cap, which would probably take at least a day for the small roof.  We'd rather focus on getting the large roof panels up first and then go back to the trim.  Big roof is more of the same - horizontal 1x4s went on first. 





The large roof was tough to square up with no straight edge to work from.  It took us the better part of a day with lots of cursing.  Reminded me of squaring up the footers last year.  Finally we got it figured out and put the bottom row of 1x4's on. 



We've got some more wood work left on the front and side before we can get to the metal.  Depending on time and weather, the roof should be in good shape by the end of this month before the weather gets too nasty!

[speedfunk]

Sweet ..deb posted all these great pics.
Concrete block and electric:  b/c of running the electric in the block i believe we have to have it inspected before we pour the floor (although I might just pour it and ask forgivness later).  I tried several different ways of making the holes for the outlets.  First I tried drilling holes with an hammer drill along the outside...well...yeah not so good.  The concrete did not really break that well and on a couple of blocks I actually cracked the surface bonding cement by pounding on the outlet with a hammer.  The next attempt was with the small (4") circular saw.  This works pretty good and is how I ended up doing all the inlets at the bottom of the floor.  HOWEVER ..its not clean b/c it does not go in deep enough.  Then I tried the full size circular saw with the diamond blade ...oh yeah.  That worked the best.  After I cut it , i would tap it out easily with a hammer without damaging the block.  

We used the underground cable (called UF )  12 guage (thicker) for outlets and 14 guage can be used for lights.  I was concerned that this would be harder to work with however I think i prefer it.  It stays pretty rigid which made eaiser shoving it up the empty core to the outlet hole.  On a few I had to drop a string with a nut on it down and use that to bring the electric cable up but it worked well and I did not have to do that to often.  

Like deb mentioned we ran some conduit for future use.  We had a tarp garage that degraded and blew down that I repurposed the metal poles for.  The lets had nice 90 degree bends that worked well for bringing it up next to a wall ...very cool.  

Roof:  

The metal roof has lots of pieces and I have to admit intimdated me b/c I did not see anyone else attempted to install standing seam on here .  I think most hired it out.  Between deb and I though we managed to figure it out and actually it went farily well.  

The little roof was nice and easy b/c we had the wall where it meets the big section of the house to square against.  The big roof ...ehh...

THe issue was with all the insulation that floats on the roof , its very difficult to find anything that is true.  everything is off by a little bit.  I did not want to have it unsquare at all.  I had to remove one piece of tin (the long panels) b/c I forgot to put clips on, on the small roof.  It did not seem to want to snap off , so i had to pull it off .  This was not so bad on a 10 foot panel ..on a 20 foot panel it would not be fun.  Not to mention a whole bunch of them  .  

The way we did it was to use a plumb bob and drop it next to the footer on both the corners .   We then measured 4 feet in  from that marked point on the overhanging furring strips, so that it was on the roof not overhanging (where the furring strips are all bendy).  So from that point we hung a string suspended slightly b/c the furring strips go up and down, from the one corner to the next and marked.  From there we did the 3/4/5 trick to square the sides of the roof.  It worked well.  we then measure outward and marked the furring strips.  Then added the horizontal 4" board and trimmed the excess.  I am happy its done and ready.  whew...sorry for the book, I just want to share what worked and what did not.  

[Dog]

You guys are a Rockin' team!!!!! 

[speedfunk]

woohoo..... thanks dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Some possible good news.  We have a contract on our firstday cottage that we are currently living in.  Its dependent on the seller selling their house BUT they are past inspection so I think its fairly safe bet.  They have 50G down so I don,t think banks will give them any grief.  They want to closed by jan6th.    cheers to being homeless

Keep our fingers crossed

[drainl]

We had a four day roofing marathon last week. The 3/12 roof pitch is nice for walking around on, but it's rough on the back. By day 4 we were pretty tired.

We chose to shorten the long 20′ panels by 6″. Originally we went with a 3′ overhang so we'd have a nice walkway in winter but got concerned it'd block too much sun. So Jeff and the sawzall took care of that. We also decided to prep the gutters on the ground. It made the whole process much easier and faster. We tacked down the bug screening first to get a better seal. Next were the gutters, rake and offset cleat like before.



Then we were off with the paneling! Jeff was worried about sliding the long panels up. Even some of the 10′ were a bit hard. So this time we just snapped in the bottom few feet. Much easier!







We'll do some temporary bracing on the overhang before the snow comes and then do it right after the exterior walls are finished.



Getting the last few panels and rake on is tricky, so we rigged up a roof ladder.







Now on to the backside! We did the front first so we could get the worst part over with. Now the back with 11′ 6″ panels and only a 4′ drop seems much simplier. Squaring it up took no time. Then we added the lower 1×4s, screening and gutter. A little more work and we'll be ready to slide on the panels!





Our assistant took a picture of the "crew".



We should have some time and good weather this weekend to work on the back roof so hopefully we can get it up quickly. Then we need to move back inside and finish getting the floor prepped for cement before it gets too cold. After the floor is in, we'll finish the roof trim as weather permits – we just need a few more nice sunny days!

In other news, our cottage was inspected for the potential buyers yesterday.  We should hear more in a couple of days, but our realtor who was present for the inspection said there were no major issues.  We'll see!

[Squirl]

Looks great.  Good luck for the weekend. It is supposed to be clear but cold.  Low of 25.  I will be working in it too.

[drainl]

Good luck to you too this weekend Squirl.  If only we could stretch fall just a little bit longer! 

[speedfunk]

sold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


not the Earthberm lol.  Our First Day cottage we closed on a few days ago.  We are now completly debt free.  We (esp me) are VERY excited.  We got enough to pay off every single debt we have, not only that but we have 45G in the bank to finish our house and buy a new car (for new kids coming). 

woohoo. freedom

Other then that little has been done at the house... work will start to resume with the thawing of frozen muscles

[Redoverfarm]

Congratulations.  Must be a great feeling.

[glenn kangiser]

Jeff and Deb, that is great news.  You two worked so hard on all of this - the First Day and this one.  You deserve it.  Congrats.