14 x 24 Olympic Peninsula

[glenn kangiser]

Yeah.... that sucks, Considerations.... 

[considerations]

So, I get the fireproof shelf built for the new inverter, and start moving the wires to the new location. Figured out, I think, how to make the current buss bars work, quit for the day, and was going to hit it hot and heavy in the AM.  I get up this morning, and out of the blue get a phone call from a vet in Port Angeles, 15 miles and a major river away.  A man brought in a stray cat. They checked it out, found a microchip..it is Meg, my kitten (no more), that disappeared the first week of January this year.  She'd been living rough for at least the last 4 months, what happened during the first 5 or 6 months is a mystery...and she's not talking. I, however, am thrilled!

So, no inverter functioning yet, but she's home, after getting looked over and caught up on vaccinations. The day is gone, and her brothers don't seem to recognize her....a little time for integration and I hope all will be fine. What a relief, I felt so bad when she disappeared...thought she had been eaten. Somehow I think she may have gotten a little help getting over that river. 

[MountainDon]

 
Must feel great!

[considerations]

Rain, real rain.  I know, that means it is really autumn....but we've had none since July and I welcome it! This is almost unheard of.

[considerations]

Well, I did it.  Got the new inverter wired up, flipped the switch(es)...and no fireworks or meltdown and nobody died. Whew! This one is a Magnum, and they weren't kidding, 20lbs heavier than the Xantrex so I had to build a shelf to hold it instead of just screwing it to the wall, fireproofing required..different footprint as well...slightly longer cables..sizing did not have to change luckily. Yagh...glad I don't have to do this every day. Easier to program than the last one. Still getting accustomed to the difference in how the readout works.  Things had really heated up at work, so I only got to spend a few hours a day concentrating on this project.  Like an hour of reading the "book", and an hour of doing what it said....electrical is counter intuitive to me.  This is not an engineer's brain I'm lugging around.    Good news is, I can read and retain long enough to follow instructions.  One thing for sure I want to add is a system bypass (oh boy, more studying "electrical")...lose the inverter, switch to the gen, and not have to drag a bunch of heavy duty extension cords around to get nominal cabin operation...that was not fun. Anyhow it is done, and I get my life back.

[considerations]

Oh, and a side note...after several years on these 6 volt golf cart batteries, think I'm going to start the thinking on replacement.  Things seem to be holding steady, but batteries have gotten expensive, so saving will take some time.  However, my new experiment....I took the Kill a Watt out to the gen (its small, so I won't blow the Kill a Watt).  There is just enough room to plug it into the face, and the Honda eu's have a built in inverter, and the 2000's are under the max the meter can take, so...in it went.  Hooked the "shore power" line to the Kill a Watt...checked the time, turned off the battery charge mode, and I'm going to leave it there for 24 hours...might help with the battery bank sizing, ya think?  The adventure continues..

[MountainDon]

I want to add is a system bypass (oh boy, more studying "electrical")...lose the inverter, switch to the gen, ......

You lost me there....  that is, if I understand the object this is easy, maybe even built into the inverter or available as a manufacturer accessory kit.  I take this to mean you would like the inverter to automatically switch the generator in as the power source and switch the batteries out after the generator has started.  Yes?   

My Outback has the transfer relay built in; some others do and some others need an accessory kit, IIRC.   It not only makes life easier but it is better for the system when you fire the generator up to do a battery equalization. (That disconnects the system from the batteries to protect DC items from the higher voltage used for equalization.)

[MountainDon]

I'm going to leave it there for 24 hours...might help with the battery bank sizing, ya think?

At least 24 hours. Depending on the daily use cycles you may get better information if the measurement is for a week and then averaged out to get the daily.   But I'm not clear (maybe it's my early AM flight lagged brain) about just what you are measuring if it's measuring generator output. 

[considerations]

"I want to add is a system bypass" 

Things are perhaps a little primitive here compared to what you may have. My gens are Honda 2000eu's. So they have AC electrical outlets on the front.  I plug into one of them with a 10/2 cord, which goes through through a 30amp breaker and then is hardwired to the inverter. 

If the inverter quits working I currently have no way to direct that genset AC direct to the house panel.  Hondas already have an inverter, so their output is clean enough for house appliances.  I want to install a "bypass switch" that will redirect the genset AC to my house panel if the big inverter goes dead again.

"At least 24 hours. Depending on the daily use cycles you may get better information if the measurement is for a week and then averaged out to get the daily.   But I'm not clear (maybe it's my early AM flight lagged brain) about just what you are measuring if it's measuring generator output"

Honda 2000eu gens have an "eco" setting.  They idle until there is a demand then rev to meet the demand. So if anything, I'm measuring heavy...the idle output + demand.  It read out at 5.34Kwh after 24 hours.  Its been raining for days so i think I got nothing from the PV array and the charger setting on the inverter was set to off.  I just ran the furnace, no wood stove, did 2 loads of laundry, worked on the computer, lights of course....seems to work out to 10 L16's to get 3 or 4 days on battery power in the winter....max 50% discharge..more tinkering to follow. I will figure this out, the generators are cheering me on.

[MountainDon]

I want to install a "bypass switch" that will redirect the genset AC to my house panel if the big inverter goes dead again.

Have a look at this automatic transfer switch. It's good for up to 30 amps. We had one of these (under the Iota name) in our RV. It was very dependable. The output goes to the AC power / breaker panel. One input is from the inverter, the second input is from the generator. When the generator is started it automatically switches from inverter to generator (in the way I had it set up). It has a delay switch for generator use. That holds the generator offline for 30 seconds when it is started so it can stabilize.

[considerations]

So, I'm back.  Went to see the kids and grandkids in Houston.  Took Amtrak from Seattle to LA to Houston, then on to New Orleans, Chicago and back to Seattle. It was good to see the kids, but even more than that got a great tour of our country west of the Mississippi...reaffirming that there are millions of folks who are just plain normal, wanting to make a living and raise kids and have a decent life...a breath of fresh air after all the Kabuki theater in the media during the election campaign. 

[Redoverfarm]

Glad to have you back.  Although I didn't even know you left.  .  Yes there are other places similar to home but not exactly.  Sounds like you had a good trip. 

[considerations]

It was a good trip, thanks.  I have a long standing aversion to declaring on the internet or in other public settings that I'm not going to be home for 2 weeks. Just seems better to say so afterwards rather than announce it ahead of time.  Turned over itineraries to a few close friends and family, that is enough. 

[redjhoo]

Any updates?
Really enjoyable working through the tread tonight.

[considerations]

Got a new battery bank. So far 6 L16's...have a small window to add more. Looks like Washington state is terminating their sales tax exemption on alternate energy components...so I'm hustling to beef up the systeom as quickly as possible.  I'd like to increase the number of batteries as well as grab some more PV panels...learned some good lessons with the 1st battery bank...and they lasted longer than they should have, considering the abuse a beginner can perpetrate on them. 

Mountain Don, if you were going to add a charge controller...would you go Morningstar...or Outback...or what? MPPT of course.

[OlJarhead]

(I'm not MTDon but wanted to chime in)

I will not buy another Morningstar.  The second one I have is having similar issues to the first and while it works their support is the worst I've ever had with any product EVER. 

My next purchase will likely be Outback.

[considerations]

Thanks for the input...I'm leaning their way, just going through the owner's manual and trying to get a grip on the "what else do I need" list.  Looks like a couple of....DC breakers and other stuff etc. 

[Squirl]

I'm not MTD either.

I have been looking at a midnite solar classic.  Higher amps and VOC are what I am looking for in a colder climate.  Also I want the option to add wind too.

http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/comparisonChart.pdf

It is a bit lopsided because it is a midnite solar marketing tool, but at least you can get the layout all the different models to compare on your own.

I believe homepower.com might also have a free article on mppt charge controller comparisons.

[MountainDon]

Last time I checked I was MountainDon. 

Midnight and Apollo both offer higher peak voltages and I do like that a whole lot. It would permit adding another similar panel to our array for example, without having any worries about the existing wire size from PV to CC. Worth thinking about. The present panels would also influenece that. They would likely have to be in series to work with 24 VDC

  Also I want the option to add wind too.

Not at the same time though. It's an either/or situation; one unit for wind and one unit for PV and another for hydro.

Got a new battery bank. So far 6 L16's...

I know this was not asked but I thought it suitable to inject this question or thought. Is my recall correct; you have a 12 VDC based system?

New batteries, possibly adding PV panels and a new charge controller in conjunction with the mention of possibly adding more batteries makes me wonder of this is also the time to re-think 12 VDC vs 24 VDC as the basis for the system.   Just a thought. I know it would mean an new inverter/charger as well.

[considerations]

"I know this was not asked but I thought it suitable to inject this question or thought. Is my recall correct; you have a 12 VDC based system?"

"New batteries, possibly adding PV panels and a new charge controller in conjunction with the mention of possibly adding more batteries makes me wonder of this is also the time to re-think 12 VDC vs 24 VDC as the basis for the system.   Just a thought. I know it would mean an new inverter/charger as well."

Just replaced the inverter ($ouch)...I had to, and quickly. My only charge controller is/was 12v. So yup...still 12v.  However...I have the potential for more capacity as things stand, and am going to exploit it, hopefully intelligently.

Increasing the PV array(s) means a new (another) charge controller as well, so I'm hoping I can get one that allows a transition to at least 24v in the future..I think that is possible.

I've been reading the Morningstar manual for the 60/80amp models and looking for the extra parts one doesn't know are necessary unless the reading is done before the purchase....Morningstar has all these programming processes for controlling the battery charging process....so does my inverter.  I'm a little bewildered about  how/if they work together, or not. Which takes precedence, etc.  Back on the learning curve.

[MountainDon]

Yes a good CC auto selects the voltage of the batteries. With Outback you first connect the CC to the batteries and it finds the voltage. Also possible to do manually I think. Then you connect the input from the panels and it goes through more steps. So for Outback at least it is easiest to do that connecting and switching by using a DC breaker on the input and the output. The bonus is the protection of the breakers. I have not read the other manuals but imagine they are similar. But worth checking out.

There are many programmable settings for the Outback CC too. Many. That is one of their virtues. You are not stuck with the precanned estimate of what might work best like some of the cheap units. There are default settings so the learning curve can be extended. It will work out of the box after the initial setup.

Depending on where the CC is mounted you might also be interested in their Mate, the remote display panel and programming device. BTW, the Outback Mate is needed for use with programming an Outback inverter. Not an option.

The CC and inverter work independently of each other. The only time I can think of where one might interfere with the other is if/when you fire up a generator and use the charger section of the  inverter/charger at the same time as the CC is working from the PV panels.

[considerations]

Ok...got the new battery bank installed, up, and running....no fried operator....had to think out of the box..they are so much bigger than the old golf cart batteries. Literally had to rip the box out and have to rebuild it to fit. 



Next step is the PV panels to match...I'm missing one breaker, want to include it before placing the order.

[OlJarhead]

Nice work!

[considerations]

Wow, thanks...lots of labels and arrows...lots and lots.  It's very easy for me to lose track of what is going where and why. 

[considerations]

Hah!   3rd morning and still running without a gen! Ha...Hah! More solar panels on the way as the 2 160 Watt are not quite enough...but still, wow. Yes, I'm crowing, but I don't often get to, and this PV system has always been a challenge. Some of us are more clever than others when it comes to electrical ..I'm not one of them.