Putting in Road

[whit]

Hey there folks. I'm a newbie to this site and haven't found very much talk on road construction. Presumeably most people buying land are being faced with this first task of clearing the land and putting in a road. Because I am going to be doing this work solo or maybe with another buddy or two, I am wondering what the best product to put down would be. My first thought of course is gravel but that may be a little expensive and might be over kill as I probably only need an inch or two of that on top. My other ideas are gravel mixed with stone dust or mixed with dirt.

To try and give you an image of what I have landwise, I am basically in a mountanous area. The land I am buying is pretty flat although there is still 2 to 3 feet of snow on it (I know because I walked the lot). It is wooded but the tree's are pretty small in diameter, 1 to 2 inches which tells me someone may have started clearing it some time ago and stopped. I am getting this land many years after the initial purchase. I am betting that there will be dips and valley's to fill in and I certainly don't want to do this all with gravel. I will put in about a 80 to 100 foot road about 4 to 5 feet wide. Also keep in mind that we get serious thaw in the Spring and roads get pretty wet punck not to mention run off.

Anybody got any tips. Keep in mind I won't be using a tractor, a bobcat or anything like that. The dump truck will drop a tandum at my lot and I will manually build the road with wheel barrel and shovel. I once did the landscaping for a back yard I had which was about 1/4 acre by myself. It took 5 tandums (18 yards each) of topsoail which I wheeled from the drive way to the back yard, so I'm not afraid of hard work 

[Redoverfarm]

  Whit

The road is not something you don't want to slack on.  It will be the basis for everything you haul into the property for construction as well as yourself.  To do it properly you should have someone to remove any existing top soil. The road will not become solid if the aggregate is placed on top of the existing top soil. You can stock pile it later for landscaping.  Once the top soil is removed you can assess what type of soil you have and that will dictate the size of aggregate that you should use.  Ideally you should use no smaller than 1-3" as your base ( You may get by with # 57 stone)then follow up with a smaller size something like crush & run as a finish.  If you use a smaller size for a base it will quickly disappear into the soil.  With freezing and thawing you will end up with a rough and bottomless road. Not real sure where you are located but each area of the US has natural road building material that is specific to your region.  Here we have a rock/slate know as Churt which is an excellent base material.  It is naturally mined without an processing such as stone by a quarry thus the cost is considerably less.  Just make sure that it is suitable for a base. Some slate will just crush into dirt and be of no value.

[Alan Gage]

Some people around here use used asphalt from road construction for their drives. My sister has it out at her place. She's been there 5 years and it was done before she got there. Doesn't get muddy, doesn't rut, and seems to stay in place pretty well.

Alan

[muldoon]

Here is a document from texas a&m university I found very helpful when I had questions.  (old bookmarks are great). 

http://theurbanrancher.tamu.edu/construction/ruraldrivewaydesign.htm

The keys are drainage, aggrgate, base. 
as notyed above, the general best practice process is scrape the top soil.
Lay in heavy aggregate, 2-3" rocks or crushed stones, limestone, greenrock, crushed concrete, caliche, whatever you got. 
Then go to 1" rock on top of that and start to form it with a crown in the middle. 
finish with small aggregate and run a scraper to smooth it out. 

be sure to lay in some schedule 80 pvc every now and then just in case you ever want to run utilities or someonthing under the road you have a ready conduit to use and do not need to dig up the road later. 

Most counties will pay for the driveway culvert, might check into that. 

Lastly, make it big enough for trucks.  think fire trucks.  think concrete delivery truck.  think septic tank delivery truck. 

[Squirl]

Think ambulance. 

Another good guide.
www.t2.unh.edu/nltapa/Pubs/south_dakota_gravel_manual.pdf

Muldoon has it right.  I am re-building one when spring comes.  Crush and run is $250 for 12 yards in my locality.  What kind of distance are you talking about?

[MushCreek]

I'll echo what the others have said- scrape topsoil and build up a good base of crushed gravel. Note- round gravel like pea stone won't pack to a hard base, it just rolls out of the way as your tires sink. And 4-5 feet wide is a path, not a driveway or road. Most gravel drives are 12', and that doesn't feel all that wide when you're on it. Plan on doing it right, or plan on doing it again.

[whit]

Wow these are all good tips! I have a few more months to think it through as the snow is still covering everything. I'm up in Ottawa, Ontario and the property is about an hour north. As mentioned we get pretty bad Spring thaws so roads do tend to wash away a bit with the snow melting and the ground continuing to thaw during the day and then freezing again at night. The road I want to build will be about 80 feet as I will be putting the cottage somewhere near the back of the lot (1 acre).

So I am probably not looking at doing anything until June/July after those nasty black flies are gone!

Thanks Guys

[Erin]

You might also contact the local county road department and see what they're using in your area. 

In my area, they put down a clay-rock type material called "mag."  (I'm not entirely sure if "mag" is short for something in our particular case, or if it's just reminiscent of something similar called mag_____.)

Regardless, the mag itself, being a clay, is very slippery when wet, so it's topped with gravel.  However, it makes an excellent, cheap road-bed as it turns into concrete when it dries.  We're going to do the same for our private road, when we get around to building it.  For now, a pasture trail works just fine.
But we're in a semi-arid region, so this works well for us.

[Pine Cone]

Not sure if this will be totally relevant to where you are in Ottawa, but here is another road building manual in pdf form...  lots of good info


Oregon Department of Forestry Forest Roads Manual
http://www.oregon.gov/ODF/STATE_FORESTS/roadsmanual.shtml

[RIjake]

Here's a couple links to a product that I'm using for my road

http://www.hanesgeo.com/files/documents/doc74.pdf
http://www.hanesgeo.com/category.asp?sid=3&csid=133

I've seen this product in use.  The city I work for used it on an access road for a new recreational area. 

The advantages to the product is less aggregate needed and the product holds the stones so rutting and slide off is eliminated.

[river place]

I agree with the others that you need to do it right.  You can do it yourself however I found the local grading company to be very reasonable in price.  The came in and graded off the tope soil putting in a pile for later use if I need it in a garden. 

They put in a culvert to allow water to flow under at a low spot and also build up the edges so water flows down the side not arcoss.  We've had not issues with gravel washing out.

They recommended a larger gravel first to build a strong base.  We drove over the larger gravel for two years to compact it.  I then have them come back every two years adding smaller gravel.  We now have a nice drive and all I have to do is run a drag type grader a few times a year behind our ATV.  Would have to do this except the weed growth can be strong in spring and late summer in our area.

I would see what the local grader would charge.

[duncanshannon]

good topic & 

i have the same questions... once you have land, you need to be able to get at it!

[Texas Tornado]

Down here we use the road base that the county use and add chat on top of it....Turns it into concrete!
TT

[rick91351]

Whit this is a great topic and would have most likely answered locally.

Muldoon's post is about as correct as an answer as you can get, if the materials are available.  Yet sadly sometimes not all locations have rock and gravel available or are so cost prohibited you have to look to look other sources.  Here in the mountains of Idaho there is lots of decomposed granite.  Everyone uses it from the county and state to the locals to build roads.

We did this last year on our place.  As Muldoon posted drainage is essential.  We used a crawler to excavate the roadway where it was going to go.  (Part of this was done three years ago)  Doing this gave us the barrow pit. Or place for the drainage to go, then we started back filling with the decomposed granite.  After you get it laid down and graded with a few rains and a snow or two it tightens down and is like concrete, sort of like Texas Torndo's chat.  



The materials came from this borrow sit we dug on our place.  If we would have had to purchase the materials plus hire the equipment it would have never been.  As it was my friend up there used his equipment and did it when he could fit in the work.  It sill cost of course but not like if I would have told him to do it yesterday.  The barrow site might even turn into one of Glenn's underground houses.



It also works great for bases for concrete slabs with a little moisture sprinkled on it when you use a plate compactor.  Base was level.  Dang wire would never lay down right.  Its buried now!    

 

[Texas Tornado]

I totally agree on using what is a local material!
Up at the Barn we use granite as well (makes a fine driveway).
TT

[Don_P]

Ours is shale if we can get it, clay, from decomposed granite that has been heated and pressed not quite to slate. It has a flatter plate shape and is good on steep grades. It doesn't roll like the crushed granite that is readily available. Short of that its granite and stone dust. Both mine and the jobsite are around 28%, 2 wheel drives start kicking at about 12%. Keep grades below that whenever possible and the drive will hold up alot better, not to mention EMS has a better chance of getting to you.

[Cowboy Billy]

First you need to know your soil types and its drainage characteristics ie sand clay. When we got our property in 2006 I had to put in 1/4 mile of road across my Uncles just go get to our property. I had 6-8 inches of topsoil The 6" of clay then a 12" wet gray sand layer then clay again. After I got the trees off I ditched the sides of the road going through the sand layer and at least six inches beyond that. That way it cut off the water around it and allowed the sand layer under the road to drain out into the ditch.

You also have to know what types of materials you can get locally to build you road with the farther they have to haul it the more it costs.
Sand and gravel is classified from round (pea grave/ beach sand) to sharp. The sharper it is the better it is for a road way. When you put down sand or gravel the edges contact each other and bind together giving you your base. A sharp material had ridges and flats that lock together where as a round material slides around and doesn't lock together. The reason for using larger rock for the bottom is that is has larger flats and edges to lock together.

In winter water gets between the rocks/sand freezes and pushing it apart taking its compaction out making it slide around. It also allows dirt and clay to get into and around the stone making it loose its ability to lock together. Thats called loosing your base. Its still there but it can't do its job.

If you have a lot of soft clay or soil under where your road is going. They make a fabric you can put down before you put you gravel down that will greatly help keep the clay or dirt from getting into your gravel and causing you to loose your base.

It was a muddy mess making our road. We started in 2006 two weeks before memorial day. It was a old logging road but was over grown and was only a walking trail. We went out with chainsaws spent 8 hrs cutting trees and only got 15' I told my brother we needed a dozer. And we found one we could rent four days over memorial weekend for $1200. We got it pushed the trees off and roughed in the road. And made 1/2 mile of trails.



It was wet and raining and I caught a bad cold but I got it in. That fall after it dried hardened up and got wet again I went back with a little B21 kubota and cut the ditches in. I didn't have any way to move the spoils so I ended up having to throw it on the road way and work it in but it also built up my road so it was higher than the surrounding ground which would give it better drainage.



We used it as a dirt road for three years. It did get pretty slippery when it was rained on. But it held up well enough to use until fall 2009 when we had two months of cold wet weather and we beat it to heck.



Jan 2010 I was putting in trails and found gravel on the property when I was pushing over trees and found gravel in the root ball. And was lucky enough I had enough to dig up for the road and other projects.





Billy

[rwanders]

   Good to hear about your attention to ditching----it is vital for any road but, especially important for gravel roads.  Many forget to keep those ditches open as time goes by though. Also good idea to minimize usage during spring thaw until the roadbed drains sufficiently.

[rick91351]

Wow Billy my hat is off to you.  That is one nice road especially with what you had to work with.

[whit]

Wow Cowboy Billy that's a great job you did there and a lot of work to boot!
Thanks for the pictures Rick and Cowboy Billy, they are worth a thousand words 

[whit]

Here are some picts. of the property although covered in snow but it gives a general idea of the terrain I am dealing with. Mainly rocky and hilly as can be seen from picts. 4 and 5 taken from across the lake. Anything sort of roundish is going to be BIG ROCK so I am not going to pretend that it's a nice little mound of dirt LOL!  Since I just got the property, I'll know more in the Spring but at least this gives a perspective to you kind folks giving me your great tips.

Picture from top of lot 1.



Picture from top of lot 2.



Picture from road. Road into lot is just above but is only at the front of the lot. This saves the need for a culvert as this accessible from the main road. I need to go back from that road into the lot about 80 feet.



Picture from lake showing rocky terrain.



Picture of adjacent cottage built on rocky terrain.



Main road going down from front of lot. Nice packed gravel mixed with dirt.



Main road going up from front of lot. Nice packed gravel mixed with dirt.