20 x 40 1 ½ Story – Lake Hartwell, GA

[LuvHartwell]

Hello Everyone:

Tony here from Athens GA.

About two months ago I discovered the CountyPlans website and knew instantly it was exactly what I had been looking for.  I've enjoyed reading about all the different projects and now I'm happy to be moving forward with our vacation home project near Lake Hartwell GA.

Lake Hartwell is one of the southeast's largest lakes. Built by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers between 1955 and 1963.  Bordering Georgia and South Carolina on the Savannah, Tugaloo, and Seneca Rivers. Lake Hartwell comprises nearly 56,000 acres of water with 962 miles of shoreline.



A few months ago my wife and I purchased a 2.1 acre parcel of land with an old farmhouse on it.  It's a wonderful property about a mile from the lake on road that dead ends at the lake.    100+ year old trees everywhere and virtually level except for a 3% grade near the very back of the property. 

We had originally planned to restore the old farmhouse but as one inspector said to me "The old house is plumb eat up with termites".  A normal termite colony has about 60,000 termites.  We had a Super Colony which is around 1,000,000 termites.   The inspectors estimate the termites had been there for 2 or 3 decades feeding on the house.

Bottom line – Over the last month we knocked the old house down. The good news is the house didn't cost us anything since we were really only buying the land.  The house would have been a bonus if we could have saved it.

Were planning to build a modified version of the 1 1/2 story cottage plan I purchased about 2 months ago.

Many thanks to our friends Steve & Adam for all their help.  Our old John Deer tractor made pulling walls and floors apart a lot of fun as well saving us a lot of time.  14 trips to the landfill and 3 dumpsters later were finally done! 

Before Demolition -





During Demolition -



It's a little hard to see but that's Steve with a sledge hammer.  He broke the handles on 2 of them.  I kept tellin him "Slower swing & better aim". 



After Demolition -





The septic system finally goes in tomorrow.  I will post the full story on that over the weekend if I have time. Health Dept. Inspectors, Permits & Certified Contractors... Oh boy was this fun!

Thanks,

Tony

[alcowboy]

Congratulations, good luck and  ! Can't wait to see your progress.

[MountainDon]

  LuvHartwell and  to the forum.

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks for the nice write up, Tony.  Interesting.

Seems I picked up or delivered a load of rubber to or from Athens. GA once.

Looking forward to seeing your project .  to the forum

[CWhite]

Welcome and I look forward to following your progress.  It is a shame you had to demolish that cool looking old homestead, but understandable from your description.   It looks like it made for a beautiful building site.
I have 4 kids in college in Athens, and lived there myself for 15 years. 
Lake Hartwell is a nice place.  Congrats on the new place.   
Christina

[LuvHartwell]

Hi Gang - Thanks for the very warm welcome. 

The Old Septic System –

The old farm house was about 115 years old.  Over the years it had at least three additions.  A bathroom and septic system were added at some point but there is no record with the county as to when.  I've spoken to several lifelong area residents who knew the former owners Mr & Mrs Fleming. 

The Flemings purchased the property around 1940 and lived there for approximately 65 – 67 year.   They did not have children.  Several of the older locals we talked to remember the house having indoor plumbing after WWII but not prior to that. 

Mr. Fleming past away sometime in late 2006.  He was well into his 90's.  His wife had preceded him but we haven't been able to figure out when.

Our best guess is the former septic system was put in between 1945–50.  Given the age and uncertainty as to its condition we decided to abandon it and put in a new system.

The Septic Permit Process-

The first step in the process was to go to the local county building dept.  They in turn sent me to the county Health Dept to obtain a Septic permit.  Apparently a septic permit is required before a building permit can be issued.

Step 2 - The Health Dept provided me with a list of state approved Soil Scientist who could be hired to conduct a soil survey. 

Step 3 - Looking over the list of some 300 names I found a company that was local. I called and setup an appointment to have a survey done.

Step 4 - Apparently "Perk Test" are a thing of the past at least here in GA.  The Soil Scientist and his helper armed with the plat I provided drilled 6 holes examining the dirt from each.  He told me they rarely do perk test with water anymore.  They can tell the soil conditions just by examining the soil from their bore holes. 

Step 5 - Six holes, dozens of measurements, GPS readings and 2 hours later he has what he needs to create a soil report.  I write him a check for $300 and he tells me I will have the report in the mail in a few days.  I remember thinking to myself " Wow this is going so smoothly."  HaHa...

Step 6 – Once the soil report is received make an appointment with the county health department inspector to review the report and fill out a septic system permit application.

Step 7 – Meet with the county health inspector, review the soil report and pay the $225 permit fee.

Step 8 – County health inspector conducts an on-site property inspection in order to determine an approved location for the septic system.

Step 9 – County health inspector draws up a septic system site plan and submits it to the county health dept supervisor for review and approval.

Step 10 – Once the septic system site plan is approved by the county health dept supervisor the county health dept inspector approves the septic permit. 

Step 11 – You may now pick up the septic permit and a list of county certified septic system contractors.  No DIY in this county

Step 12 – Get bids from contractors on the approved list.  If you can find any that will call you back or are still in business.  I did find 4 out of a list of 20

Step 13 - Hire a contractor.Get it all in writing

Step 14 – Contractor contacts the county health inspector to arrange an on-site septic plan review.

Step 14 – Contractor & county health inspector meet at the job site to review the septic plan.
(Meeting goes something like this; Inspector: Put the Septic system here.  Contractor: Okay.  Meeting over.)

Step 15 – Contractor installs septic system

Step 16 - County health inspector inspects the contractors work before the contractor covers up the tanks and leach lines.
(Meeting goes something like this; Inspector: I see you put the septic system where I told you to.  Contractor: Yep.  Meeting over.)

Step 17 – If the work was done to the specs of the septic site plan the county health inspector
Issues a final septic permit and mails it to the homeowner.

If your not dead of old age or shear bureaucratic induced frustration you may now apply for a building permit.

The Soil Report –

The soil report arrived in the mail just as our soil scientist said it would.  The report has a drawing of the land, some charts, projected perk rates, system length and depth recommendations etc. 

Over the next couple of days I reviewed the report several times.   I started to understand what all this information means.  It's at that point I noticed some inconsistencies between what's on the report and the actual topography of the land. 

Copy of the soil report -



Immediately three major things didn't look right.  First the land drawing made by the soil scientist did not mach the drawing on the plat.  They were both drawn to the same scale using computer software so why didn't they match?  His drawing was not just a little off which you might expect... it was way off.

Copy of the Plat – Compare this with the soil report above and tell me what you think.



Second, I notice the test bore holes are not indicated on the soil report drawing correctly.  As a matter of fact none of the holes on the report are anywhere near where the actual holes were drilled. 

Finally, I discover the main operational well was not indicated on his drawing at all.  He mapped the old inactive well in the upper right hand corner of the plat but not the newer well.    By newer I mean it's been there for probably 30 years and sits in a well house 60 feet from the old farm house.  It's  impossible to miss especially since is says "well house" on the plat.  He also parked his car about 30 feet from the well house. 

At this point I'm a little worried this guy has totally screwed up the survey and it will have to be redone.

Next Posting - Meeting with the County Health Department

[Redoverfarm]

LuvHartwell    to the forum and the system of fee collection.  I thank goodness that my area does not regulate most of the building process.  The septic is the only portion that requires inspection.  They do require a "perk test" and assure that it is not within 100 ft of a well.  Then if another well is drilled it is required to be no closer than 200 ft from the working septic system.

It seems that you have to almost be a "PIA" with the inspectors to make sure that they see the obvious and are on the same page.  The only ace card one might have would be to delay payment for services until the services are rendered.  Then if a dispute is found it can be fixed or they don't get paid.

I know you stated that you were going to build the 1-1/2 story cottage plan but what steps are you taking to address the issues of the previous home owners had regarding termites? Mason foundations, Concrete piers, wood piers, termite shield and siding choices.

Did you save the tin from the roof.  A sought after commodity here.   

[LuvHartwell]

Hi Redoverfarm and thanks for the comments -

When we were trying to figure out a way to save the old house I did a lot of research on how to avoid the termite problems in the future.  It turns out GA is second only to Florida when it comes to termite problems. 



The previous owner for whatever reason ignored the problem for many years and we know the end result of that.  We won't be making that same mistake.  Most of the experts seem to agree Termidor SC Insecticide is the way to go.  It's what every major pest control company uses here in GA to knock off termites. 


When we opened up this wall the beams discintigrate and pretty much turned to dust.

Termidor is made from a revolutionary new non repellent or "undetectable" chemical technology treatment. That means termites cannot see, smell, taste or avoid Termidor.

Instead they contact, ingest, and share Termidor with their nestmates.
This is in sharp contrast to older liquid termite controls, which rely on repellent barriers that termites can finds breaks in or avoid completely.

I was told once the Termidor was applied the old farm house would be free of termites within 14 days and the entire super colony would be dead within a month or so. 

They, the major pest control companies, would like consumers like you and me to believe you need them to obtain and apply Termidor.  In my case it was going to cost $1600 to have the house treated and an additional $200 per year to maintain the protection. 

It's true you can't just go out and buy this stuff off the shelf from Home Depot or Lowes, however, you can buy it online and have it shipped. I caculated the amount I would need will cost about $300 or $400 including shipping and that protection will last 7 – 10 years.   

Here a link to a website that sells it online... http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/termidor.htm

Some states do not allow Termidor to be shipped directly to consumers in which case you may have to deal with a professional. Lucky for me GA is not one of those states.

As long as proper precautions are used and you follow the application directions I think the savings makes it an easy choice. 

For the foundation were planning a Pier & Post with concrete form tubes making up the base and PT built up beams. Were on a tight budget so this foundation option works best for us.  Treating the ground with Termidor should keep us protected.

For siding I'm leaning toward Hardiplank.  I like the durabiulity, look and low cost factor.

As for the old tin roof and all metals we saved them all.  We have it piled up onsite but will be taking them to the recycle center for a little cash as some point. 

One of 3 metal piles.

We saved a lot of the ceiling and roof lumber as well.  The termites had not gotten that far up.  We won't be using that in the new house but for repair of the old barns we have on the property.  The barns have a lot of termite damage as well. 

This is the barn near the house.

This is the barn near the property line.  It's in pretty good shape.  Were going to use it to store the lumber from the old house and some building material since we can actually lock up part of it. Another view of the barn near the property line.



We also saved almost all of the old foundation material.  A lot of granite rock and old cender block.  The rock we can use for landscaping.  The blocks were not sure what to do with but I will figure some good use.  The only thing that we hauled off to the landfill was the infested wood.  We tried to save everything else.

[Redoverfarm]

LuvHartwell just like many of the older homes of that era.  They would place rock under the support beams and over time they would settle into the ground and once you have wood in contact with the ground the problems start.

Glad you are trying to recycle the majority.  I'm with you as far as burning or dumping the old lumber.  The tin can be used for a variety of things.  Woodshed or woodpile roofs.  Some here are even putting it up into ceilings and walls for the old country effect.

It is amazing how many little sheds, barns and out buildings one little portion of land can have on it.  " Don't throw that away I will build a shed to keep it in" 
And so on and so on.

On my cabin I set on a block foundation and added a termite shield to help protect the logs. I also treated it with Boric acid which will have to be followed up every couple of years.  If I understand correctly that if you can keep it up off the ground and dry to stand a chance.

Thanks for sharing the pictures.  Keep us posted on the stages of construction.  As in my thread I have tried to update it as I go along to give some history & humor.

John 

[Sassy]

  LuvHartwell!  Very interesting posts - enjoyed looking & reading about your project  Yes, please do keep us posted on your progress...  can't believe all the steps/hassles you've had to go through with getting the septic permit, how inaccurate etc, not to mention the money...  geeezzz

[glenn kangiser]

If not necessary I would not rock the boat with the plan discrepancies, but my concern is that with ignoring the real well location the "professional" soils scientist may have caused your new septic system to be installed to close to your real well thereby causing you to have to drill a new well or re-install the new septic system at the proper distance from the real well. 

Professional indifference in favor of interest only in getting the check.  The good ol' boy system at it's finest.

I am a licensed well driller and often have come across clearance problems in the past. 

Currently only doing repair and consulting on wells and water systems.

[LuvHartwell]

Glenn – Thanks for your comments.  The good news is I was never in any danger of having the septic system installed in the wrong place potentially running the risk of contaminating the wells .  The county inspector made sure of that. 

When I had my initial meeting with the inspector to apply for the permit and review the soil report she discovered all the errors/problems with the report with in 5 minutes.  This prompted a call the soil scientist while I was sitting in the inspectors office.  He didn't have any explanation for any of the incorrect information on the report but he was quick to point out his release of liability clause in the report.

Needless to say the inspector was not impressed and I was understandably miffed.    Our next step was an on-site inspection by the inspector to see if she could make sense of his report.  I was told this would be done sometime over the next 3 days and they would be giving me a call to follow-up.

I left the inspectors office and drove straight out the property. It's only about 10 miles so I figured I would swing by and do a little work since I was already in the area.

No sooner had I gotten out of the car then up pulls the county inspector.  First thing she says is " We know this is important to you and we want to make sure you get the customer service you deserve"  I was almost speechless!  All I could say was "Thank You".

She spent the next three hours doing her own land survey.  We found all the test holes the soil scientist drilled and placed them correctly on the plat.  She made sure the 100 ft. buffer around the two wells was maintained.  I think we were at 120' and 140'. 

Two days later I had an approved site plan and was given the OK to hire a contractor.  Now I don't want to minimize the red tape involved or the power these people have over our project.  But I know when to smile, act dumb and look like I need help and sympathy.  Believe me when I say I played all of the above.  You know the old saying "You can't fight city hall".

The drain field.
The really good news is I hired a contractor. He had his meetings with the county inspector, installed the system, got its final approval and left me only $2,200 poorer. 

BTW I received 4 bids in total.  $2,200 wasn't the least expensive bid.  There was 1 a little less expensive.  I hired based on criteria in the following order of importance:

1. References in the area

2. Experience

3. Price

4. How much I liked them - This factor was really related to how much time the contractor spent working with me explaining how he would be doing to do the work, land impact, schedule etc.




The tank

Not a bad deal all and all. 

The contractor I hired lives just 2 miles down the road.  He's a general contractor that's built dozens of custom homes in the area over the last 15 years.  He's currently building a $400K new home just a half a mile away.  I was able to visit the work-site and was impressed with the quality of the homes workmanship.  I asked for 6 references.  He provided 8 of which I called 5.  All gave him excellent reviews.   

Two other factors that impressed me about this contractor.  He didn't ask for any money up front. All the rest did.  He also spent over an hour at our initial meeting telling me about the history of the property and area. 

When I need help with electrical or plumbing I will probably call him first. 

[glenn kangiser]

Sounds like you got a good deal all around.  An inspector who actually cares, a good contractor and a good deal.  The cheapest septic system in our area is around $5000 for standard going up to $30000 for engineered systems.

[LuvHartwell]

I was quite surprised myself when the bids started rolling in.  We had budgeted $6K for the septic.  Hi bid was $3,500, low bid was $2,150.  Same design and materials on all bids. 

244 Linear Ft.(Chamber system, not gravel)

732 Square Ft.

Trench Width 36 inches

Trench Depth 24 (Shallow due to rock below 24 inches. The soil scientist was dead on with his analysis even if his drawing wasn't correct.)

1000 Gal Tank

[glenn kangiser]

Here you will never get bids that low due to the cost of living and insurance - equipment cost etc.  Seems chambers are about $1300 here for 200 ft, tank around $1200 for 1500 gal plus labor - pipes etc.

Thanks for the pricing info - very useful to others.

[LuvHartwell]

As of right now here's the modified design were leaning toward.  Rather than have an open loft we've decided to build out the entire second floor.  This will allow us to have a master bedroom & bath, bunk room for the kids and some open space on the 2nd floor. 

1st Floor


2nd Floor


We have increased the ceiling height to 9ft on the first floor to provide an open feeling.  Were planning to use the existing fireplace from the old farm house which we left standing.  It appears to be rock solid. 



I'm sure we will make a few more design changes over the next couple weeks as I tinker more but it I think were 90% there. Shed dormers will be part of the design as well. I just need to figure out how to create them with the software. 

[John Raabe]

You have a good design there. Check with the stairway though. Going to a higher ceiling means the stair has to get steeper or the steps will be too high. You may want to consider a standard stair with all you are planning on the upper level. The "U-shaped" standard stair will take a space about 6'-6" by 8'.

Also remember that the sidewalls are pretty low in the 1-1/2 story. Especially if you put more ceiling height into the first floor level. Your plan looks like it might work better using the 20' wide 2-story Universal Cottage. That plan has full width headroom at the upper floor and a full U-shaped stair.

[LuvHartwell]

Hi John,

You know your stuff for sure.  The stairs and upper floor wall heights are two areas of concerns I've been struggling with.  I increased the 2nd floor walls to 4ft.  My 3D CAD software renders what looks to be a workable/liveable 2nd floor plan.  I had considered the 2 story plan but really like the look of the 1 1/2.  I guess you could call my modified plan a 1 3/4.

I do have one question for you on the foundation.  Since I'm planning a pier & post and have a full top floor with a wall down the center do you think there might be the need  for a center row of piers with supporting post in the center of the structure?

I'm concerned deflection might be an issue. At this point I'm just planning to double up every 4th joist.  Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Tony

[soomb]

I'm sure we will make a few more design changes over the next couple weeks as I tinker more but it I think were 90% there. Shed dormers will be part of the design as well. I just need to figure out how to create them with the software. 

What software program did you use?

Looks good.

[LuvHartwell]

I used 3D Home Architect - Home Design Deluxe.  $29.99.   Very easy to use.  http://www.3dhaonline.com/

[LuvHartwell]

Hi Gang,

I hope everyone is doing well in the new year.  Between the holidays, work and this house project I haven't been on the site much over the last few months.  I have however made great progress.  I will post some photos soon but FYI the house is totally dried in as of this week.  Over the weekend were planning to paint the hardi plank siding. 

Tony

[Sassy]

Hi!  Good to hear from you & we're looking forward to reading about your progress & seeing pix!   

[John Raabe]

LuvHartwell:

Your version of 3DHA is based on Punch software. Are you able to able to cut and print a scaled cross section through the house. That was one of the very helpful things that the earlier version 3 could do.

Helps a lot with stairs headroom and such.

[LuvHartwell]

Hi everyone,

I had fully intended to update my project on the site well before now but once again circumstances out of my control have been distracting me for the last 6 weeks or so. 

My wife and I now have custody of our nephews, Jerry 6 and Landis 3.  These are my brother in-law's children.  He's a 1st Sargent in an MP Unit in the US Army currently stationed in Iraq.  Those of you that are parents fully understand the lifestyle change implications this arrangement brings.  Jennifer and I are just happy were able to step in and care for the boys until their dad is back home safe and sound.

So here's a pictorial rundown of the project so far:

I used a standard post and pier reinforced w/re-bar foundation to reduce cost. 



The floor turned out pretty beefy since I used 2x12x20's spaced at 16" OC.



Working alone and inexperience got me on the floor a bit.  I used OSB for the sub-floor.  BIG mistake!  I spent the next month covering and uncovering the 20 x 40 deck with plastic.  Talk about a nightmare.



The old fireplace is just a facade.  We will be using a gas fireplace inside.  This is pretty much the only thing we saved from the old house.



For the next three weeks I worked every day on the framing by myself.  I have to admit this is the part I liked the best.  I had to get very creative about how to manipulate material safely without killing myself.







Putting the Metal Roof on - This is the one area (so far) that I hired professionals to do the work and I'm really glad I did.  I ordered the metal roofing material directly from Georgia Metals, a local company.  They make all types of metal roofing material and treated me very fair on the price.  They recommended Scott as an installer.  Scott and his crew were great.  It took them (4 man crew)  2 full days days.  It included laying the decking, felt, 1x4 yellow pine and installing the metal. 

















Day Two - The metal goes on!







I finished up the sheathing, installed the windows and doors, put up the lower section of the house wrap and started the hardie plank installation......









This is pretty much where I stopped until this weekend.  I painted three side of the house on Friday and Saturday.  I had planned to finish today but we got more rain.

The color is actually a little darker an more brown in real life.  It's Ceder Grove from Baer paints.  The hardie plank was very easy to paint.





The light patches you might see on the house is areas of wet paint where I did a little touch up and it hadn't dried before taking the pictures. 



Next I will be trimming out the windows and doors.  I already pulled about half the electrical wire inside.  After I finish-up outside with the paint its back to the electrical.  Inside pics coming soon.

Thanks,

Tony

[John Raabe]

Nice work Tony! Looking good! 

It's always a nice breather to have the roof on and be out of the weather.