Replacing the wood foundation of an 1940 Cabin

[Morgen(Guest)]

     I'm looking at a lil' ol' cabin, in every sense of the word.  It's even got the outhouse.  It was built in the 40's, all beautiful wide planks with heavy logs instead of standard beams and is in pretty decent shape.  it's a 12x21 rectangle with concrete slab under one half and what appears to be wood resting directly on the ground on the other.  I'm trying to find out the best way to replace that portion of the foundation, because until I do the house is not financable.  
    I've done a decent amount of repair/maintenance before, including the slightly more difficult things like installing headers to open up rooms and roofing.  
    Oh, and because the cabin is so small, I will eventually want to add on, and in doing so move some plumbing and electric too!  Anyone have any ideas?

[glenn kangiser]

Welcome, Morgen.  This is the kind of project I find interesting.  Is there a possibility you could post pictures?  What area of the world are you in?

Probably a temporary means of support while you work over the foundation would be in order.

For the add on, John's Enchilada plans set is very inexpensive and would give you several options of pre-designed modifiable plans.

[Morgen(Guest)]

I'm about an hour outside of Portland, Or.  or will be once I buy the place.  I have a couple of pics, but I'm not sure how to post them here?  It's Super!

[glenn kangiser]

Cool, Morgen.  

I was pulled out from under a rock by my mother in McMinnville years ago.

If the photos are digital we have information in Forum News - Posting Pictures

If not you will have to scan them to your computer then follow the above directions.

Optional -If you sign up as a member -free- you will be able to search by your name later if you have a lot of postings.

Photobucket is easier to use than some of the other services -it keeps your stuff together to reuse.

[Morgen(Guest)]

Thanks, I was uncertain where to post from...the door picture [was edited,   - John R.].  What do you think??  Thanks, for the advice, I'll become a member.

[Amanda_931]

cute place

I love the window in the door.

(that kind of looks like the 60's not the 40's)

(in case anybody wonders, I do do cute, most of the time anyway.  And in this case, one of my favorite books was Handmade Houses, A Guide to the Woodbutcher's Art)  long since lost in a flurry of moves, now quite expensive as a used book)

Charmaine Taylor may have a couple of copies--less expensive than many.  I think there were two editions, maybe one hardcover, one soft.  This should be the later one.

http://www.dirtcheapbuilder.com/hahogutowoar.html

[Morgen]

The plot/tax info say's 40's, but those things have been known to be iffy...The inside is a direct reflection of the door, with beautiful 16-18 inch planks, I've never seen them this wide!  The whole place was definitely done by hand, even the outhouse is so well built that it has windows installed at the top, and would be a bathroom if we just nailed it to the house.  

The outside looks iffy, I know.  But the constructions is very solid, and you won't believe how good it looks inside!  The biggest problem is trying to finance a cabin with no foundation, no toilet and 268 square feet.

I'm just in love...

[John Raabe]

Will your financial agency consider a new post and pier foundation satisfactory? Doing drilled concrete piers and a new PT beam would be easier than a full concrete pour. I would suggest skirting the perimeter to keep bugs and critters out of the underfloor area.

It certainly is a sweet cabin and while the structure may date from the 40's, I too expect that inspiration for many of the upgrades was a couple of decades later.

(This fine little place deserves to live on! - Here's an article I wrote on how to make houses last http://www.countryplans.com/thrive.html)

[PEG688]

 I shouldn't even touch this one , but I can't sleep anyway so Here goes.

 Given the info stated a lot , most of this  will be a "wing it " :-/

 I've jacked up 20 or 30 house's , small out building / barns , corners of old places , even one old boat house back in 1991, off a barge floated inside the boat house etc, so I do have some experience in this sort of thing .  I'm not  house mover or a "Jacking company" It just sort of happens when your a remodeler.

 This picture is the big worry , dollar eater.

 

  I appears there is at least 18" of dirt up against the left side of the building , the chimney "looks" to be cinder block .   That also looks like the "most likely area " that is the wood floor sitting on the ground.

 Some how that earth has to be held back , small retaining wall would be the place to start.  Get a small bobcat or Kabota and move that dirt back away from the building .

 Now you can see a bit more of the floor system , If it's shot / rotten , which more than likely it is . All the rotten stuff has to come out .

 The trick is how do you hold up the house while you do that?
 
  The boat house and the last  small barn  I jacked up had the same issue , no floor to jack up against.
 What we did in both those cases was ran a ledger around the inside and outside  of the walls,  2 x12  and thru bolted with threaded rod that "band" then beams 4x12 ran under those "bands" and we jacked off those .
 Now jacking is hard work , you'll need 6 or 8 maybe ten jacks,  16  or 20 ton, and more cribbing then you'd ever thing , a lagre truck load of 4' long 4 x 10 / 12 etc.  materials to do it safely . The jacks have to be plumb , and the base wide and stable to lift even a small building .

 This is dangerous , hard work . I remember when we just had let down the country kitchen we jacked in La Conner back in 1985 or so , a DIY couple where both killed when the jacks slipped , I think that was in S.W . Wa . or N. W . Or.  Yes crushed by the building  

 Most people under estimate the size of the base they need and think well thats close enough.    

 
 Re: Replacing the wood foundation of an 1940 Cabin
Reply #6 - Yesterday at 11:11am  Quote    

The outside looks iffy, I know.  But the constructions is very solid, and you won't believe how good it looks inside!  


The problem will be that the insides will soon look like the outside when the rot gets thru the framing . And your right the ouside looks more than iffy .



The biggest problem is trying to finance a cabin with no foundation, no toilet and 268 square feet.

 If you have to finance to buy this place , it would be my opinion , you do not have enough money to buy it and fix it up.   Cost's on everyone of the projects I have jacked where far over estimated dollars , more rot then ever considered was found and  issues one after another, come up.

I'm just in love...  

So is it puppy love ? Long term love ?  Point being to save the place it's going to cost ya .  Be sure you factor that into process. Just don't be "to in Love" with that door , cute can be expensive  


 Remember you asked when you read this ,  and welcome to the forum PEG

 Morgen(Guest)

Guest



 Re: Replacing the wood foundation of an 1940 Cabin
Reply #4 - Yesterday at 10:28am  Quote    


 What do you think??

[glenn kangiser]

Lots of realistic advice there PEG and good plans of action too.

Call us when you wake up - assuming you get to sleep.

[PEG688]

 Maybe to real     Morgen what do you think ?  PEG  ' Oh BTW Glenn what should I call you   When I wake up  

[glenn kangiser]

I think you better go back to sleep -- you're too chipper.  How about anything except late for dinner?

[PEG688]

 Soon got a full week ahead   After a couple of holiday shorties  Wonder if I can handle a 40 plus     All good things must come to a end   Snow day ? Not likely around here.   Might be  a rain out,  so sez the weatherman  
 But then there all that inside work  ?  :-/

 Got to pay the bills , EH. PEG

[John Raabe]

It is good advice to caution that projects such as this can be expensive time eaters that turn out to be more complex than initially thought.

That said, there are some places that do deserve to be saved! And, thankfully, there are often saviors who show up to shoulder the cross...

Many unnamed craftsmen and artists have had their work thus saved by people they never met.

The power of love is not be discounted. It can work miracles!  

[Morgen]

The tax information claims that the foundation is pier and post, I simply don't believe it.  I can look under the house and see only wood...My friend suggested simply pulling up the floor boards, and filling the area beneath the house, and between the wood supports with cement.  At least that way it would LOOK like a cement foundation had been put in.  LOL.

The hill sit's back a few feet from the house, not truly tuching, and what you see of it is all there is, it starts sloping back down right away.   But it is between the house and the edge of the property line, so I'd hate to get rid of it.

Paying for the house is not really the problem, I could pay it off pretty easily in a few years, but 90,000 is a lot for anyone to have sitting around in cash!!!  Yes, 90,000.  Unfortunately, it's on land valued at 70,000 or so, and if I want the house I have to buy the land.  Even the foundation is not the big deal for financing, it's the square footage.  I'll be putting in septic right away, (it's already perked), but I want to put in the addition myself!

And I admire Barry and Art (the woodbutchers art), I own BOTH of their books, and many similar ones in style...

[John Raabe]

Old cabins were often built on what was then called "post and pier" foundations. This was often just a log set in the dirt with an untreated beam on top. Over time the rot on the log and beam sinks the whole thing into an organic soup. The first problems are settlement and damp floors and walls.

This is a far cry from modern "Post and Pier" such as I have in many of my plans: http://countryplans.com/foundation/index.html

Building inspectors who have seen too many of the 1940's projects are the ones most skeptical about a modern P&P. No surprise there  :-/.

[Morgen]

Yes, that's what this looks like to me.  Boards on the ground.  I think it's going to be a job for a professional, or a whole slew of professionals.  I know my limitations, and while I could probably do as my friend suggests, that wouldn't help me much...I would hate to walk away completely, anyone else would just do the smart thing and bulldoze it. :'(

I'm also concerned with attaching the addition because the exterior of the building on that side is vertical logs, and therefore very bumpy (UUUUUUUUU)  I think it would be difficult to get a good seam.  Sigh...

[peg_688]

It is good advice to caution that projects such as this can be expensive time eaters that turn out to be more complex than initially thought.

That said, there are some places that do deserve to be saved! And, thankfully, there are often saviors who show up to shoulder the cross...

Many unnamed craftsmen and artists have had their work thus saved by people they never met.

The power of love is not be discounted. It can work miracles!  

 John I agree with all that and have shouldered the work end of many great projects , never had to spend my $'s , well on my own place , wish I'd had my digital camera for that , I should scan some pics of that project and post then, slow process .  So I do agree with you , but when I get on a job like this one it is wise to plan for the worst and flex / pray for the best .  I'd rather tell some one it cost less than we thought , than , holy moly we are $ way behind , neither party likes that.

 Given what morgan has said I think it is a "go for it ", I'll help from this end where I can.
PEG

[glenn-k]

Joining to vertical logs doesn't have to be too big a problem.  I have done it a couple of ways.  One is a scribers or compass - put a board next to the log that is wider than the space you want to fill - it can be a trim board or a board for board and batton -take the scriber and set it to the widest part of the gap -say its two inches as an example.  You can offset an extra wide board as an example 3"- set the scriber at 3" and mark it -the board -everything narrower than 3 inces will be waste.  The board should fit nearly exact after cutting.  Holding the scriber horizontal mark the contours of the log onto the board- then cut it off with a sawzall.  It should match close enough to caulk or if an extra wide board is used it can be re-trimmed a little closer on a second marking.

Another way is to put a straight board next to the log - lay a pencil flat on the board and mark a fairly straight line on the log- both sides of the board if possible.  Take a chain saw and carve out the slot then slip the board in - insulate a little if desired - nail in place and caulk.

Terrible explanation - hope this makes sense.

[peg_688]

Joining to vertical logs doesn't have to be too big a problem.  I have done it a couple of ways.  One is a scribers or compass - put a board next to the log that is wider than the space you want to fill - it can be a trim board or a board for board and batton -take the scriber and set it to the widest part of the gap -say its two inches as an example.  You can offset an extra wide board as an example 3"- set the scriber at 3" and mark it -the board -everything narrower than 3 inces will be waste.  The board should fit nearly exact after cutting.  Holding the scriber horizontal mark the contours of the log onto the board- then cut it off with a sawzall.  It should match close enough to caulk or if an extra wide board is used it can be re-trimmed a little closer on a second marking.

Another way is to put a straight board next to the log - lay a pencil flat on the
board and mark a fairly straight line on the log- both sides of the board if possible.  Take a chain saw and carve out the slot then slip the board in - insulate a little if desired - nail in place and caulk.

Terrible explanation - hope this makes sense.

  I concur , I understand it , I've done it , so can Morgan   Good info Glenn. :)PEG

[glenn-k]

Glad that made a little sense PEG - its a bit hard to explain.

[peg_688]

 Easier to do than write" a how to do it" , that's [highlight]FOR SURE[/highlight]. Cuz [highlight]there's ALWAYS another way[/highlight], and that is true everyone has a bit different way , they all might work . Finding the one that[highlight] "works for you"[/highlight] , PRICELESS  Love that gold high lite , guess ya all can tell that :-[PEG

[Morgen]

I'm so grateful for the support.  I know it seems like a little thing to make my day, but after fighting for funding and scratching for loose change it seems like a big thing.  I'm not sure if this makes sense to anyone else, but the idea that a home, that a creation, might amount more to a stick of chewing gum and something to bulldoze in a few years is important to me.  And being inside this house makes me feel like it was important to them too...

Enough mushy, Have I mentioned that the "beams" actually logs, run the wrong way???  They run the SAME way as the house peak...am I backward?