Al and Robins 20x30 1 1/2 near Lake Eufaula, OK

mgramann · December 29, 2011, 12:12:41 PM

I don't mean to hijack, but knowing you are planning on using header hangers to improve insulation, I had an idea that may further help. You mentioned you tripled up 2x12 headers. I might be remembering wrong, but I have seen 2 boards used instead of 3, with rigid foam insulation sandwiched between them. I suspect this would have an insulation advantage, but am wondering if this is a correct building technique.

If so, would a horizontal 2x6 laid flat across the top of header be needed so the jack studs would be 100% supported? Without it, the jack studs would not be supported in the center since insulation has minimal structural value. Would that be overkill?

Again, insulation seems to be important to you, so I thought this was a good place to ask.

ajbremer · January 10, 2012, 06:14:02 AM

Tuesday - January 10th, 2012

It's been a year, one month, and 20 days since we took the first picture of our uncleared lot. Here's a then and now shot:

As of 'now', we have 1/2 the external walls done:

January 17, 2012, 07:13:56 AM

Tuesday Morning - January 17th, 2012 @ 6:02am

Last weekend I did another 10' section. I'm getting excited to see these external walls completed. I figure my next step, after the external walls are complete, is to put the ledger boards in all along the long walls, build the few interior walls, put the loft I-beam joists in and then the flooring. That way, I can be up top to build my roof.

What would be the best size of board for my ledger, 2x6's, 2x8's? Also, I realize that I could have ganged-up my ledger cuts but now I'll have to cut them standing up. What would be the best way to go about doing all of those notch-cuts?

Anyway, here's that last section of wall we did:

And another shot:

Bob S. · January 17, 2012, 12:18:56 PM

Your place is looks GREAT!! I like the way you have stiffened up the foundation. Have you considered adding a 2X4 sister to support the floor joist and omitting the need for a ledger board?

nysono · January 18, 2012, 06:25:58 AM

I used 2 x 10 for my ledger board but did not notch them into the wall studs, instead, nailed with 4 20d nails, every stud. The inspector was fine withthat but suggested that there are specific ledger screws ( purchased at HD) that he said would have been better....??increased shear strength???

January 18, 2012, 08:00:36 AM

I used 2x6s for my ledger and cut them in while the wall was on the floor. It was easy when it was horizontal and it added stiffness to the assembly.

ajbremer · January 18, 2012, 06:42:16 PM

Wednesday Late Afternoon - January 18th, 2012 @ 5:07pm Oklahoma

Thank you RIjake, nysono, and Bob S., I really appreciate your comments.

2 x 4's sistered to the other studs sounds like a pretty simple way to go about supporting the loft joists. I would also guess that it would be strong enough, others have done that here. BUT, I feel the best and strongest solution is to use 2x6's all down the long wall with a ledger cut in each stud.

This is how I think I should cut my ledger cuts, please let me know the best way:

I guess since my walls are already standing, I would snap a chalk line all the way down the long wall where the top and bottom of the 2x6 horizontal ledger board will be. Then I cut into the studs where the upper and lower chalk lines are with the correct depth set on a circular saw (around 1 5/8"?). Then what? Use a jig-saw in between studs in order to 'pop out' the chunk?

Redoverfarm · January 18, 2012, 07:15:05 PM

Al you could also use a router if available. If you do not have a coller to fit your router bit for a jig you could measure from the line in opposite directions (above and below the line to remove) and attach a scrap to your wall stud for your router base to ride against. The distance would be from one side of the base to the opposite site of the bit. If you used a piece of scrap 2X and then 3/4 board in a "L" fashion you could attach with clamps in the tall leg against the stud. The 2X scrap would be flush to the stud surface and the 1X would be raised 3/4" from the face. Attach the 1X to the 2X with a couple dry-wall screws. Use a framing square to get the bracket exactly 90 deg when assembling. Once you cut the lower or upper line just reposition the "L" bracket to the opposite side to cut the other line..

Sort of crude but may help explain.

! 2 ! s !
! X ! t !
CLAMP>>>! 4 ! u !
!__ ! d !___
!_1X4_____
! !
! !
! !
____
! N !
! O !
LEDGER ! T ! LEDGER
! C !
! H !
____

Alan Gage · January 18, 2012, 09:45:11 PM

QuoteI guess since my walls are already standing, I would snap a chalk line all the way down the long wall where the top and bottom of the 2x6 horizontal ledger board will be. Then I cut into the studs where the upper and lower chalk lines are with the correct depth set on a circular saw (around 1 5/8"?). Then what? Use a jig-saw in between studs in order to 'pop out' the chunk?

If you go this route (with the saw) I think it would be easier to make multiple cuts in the area where the 2x6 will go. Cut the top and bottom edges and then make a few more cuts between them. Then knock the pieces out with a hammer. If the breakout isn't clean enough clean it up with a chisel or just run the circular saw across it.

Alan

January 18, 2012, 10:08:17 PM

Exactly. I set the saw to 1-1/2" depth and make a series of cuts ~1/4" apart and halfway across the full 2x6 cutout. knock that waste out. Holding the guard back (Put your goggles on we're crossing the OSHA line) Slide the saw up and down as it rests on the edge of the stud while advancing it through the cut zone... using the saw as a router. Move down, notch, knock out and smooth the lower half of the notch.

These little chips and chunks love to jam a saw guard. Double check that it has fully returned at the end of each cycle of smoothing.

ajbremer · January 19, 2012, 05:49:02 AM

Thursday Morning - January 19th, 2012 @ 4:37am Oklahoma

Explainations are very clear ya'll, thank you for the advice.

I don't own a router 'yet', I've been getting my house building power tools as I need them. I will likely be using the circular saw method explained above.

Seems like notching studs and using ledger boards serves more than just one purpose and are therefore the better method. There holding up the loft joists, the wall is braced better and becomes more like one unit, and there's another surface to nail to when applying the inside walls.

Redoverfarm · January 19, 2012, 08:07:50 AM

Al just throwed that technique out there for those who do not feel comfortable using a circular saw in a awkward location. I for one have done let-in's in that fashion as described by Don. I might just add when cutting the kerfs that you do so that the wide part of the saw foot will always ride on undistrubed or solid portion of the stud. My Mikata has a wide foot on the left of the blade so essentially I would start at the top mark and work down ( right handed). If I were to start at the bottom this would allow the foot to possibily dip down (too deep) by the time I reached the top mark.

Don_P · January 19, 2012, 08:56:26 AM

Notching weakens the studs in the direction you do not want to weaken them if any roof thrust is present. Don't fool yourself, take care of the roof thrust.

I do agree with John, this is getting into kind of advanced saw work... or potentially dangerous. Practice on your sawhorses first and then make sure you have a good place to stand while working. If you dip the saw in it can kick back pretty hard. The real piece of safety gear is between your ears

.

texasgun · January 19, 2012, 10:19:05 AM

Al sometime when I have a cut to make like that that needs to line up across mutiple studs I chalkline it just like you said but then I find a long straight board measure my saw bottom and screw the board up for a guide it sure helps when making awakward cuts, and when your saw starts to get heavy. It only takes a couple of minutes to put one top and bottom and assures you dont get outside the lines and all your cuts line up.

January 23, 2012, 07:08:21 AM

Monday Morning (You sure look fine...[Fleetwood]) January 23rd, 2012 @ 5:49am Oklahoma

Thanks texasgun, Don_P, and Redoverfarm for the comments about the ledgers. I think I'm going
to go ahead and use the sister stud method. I like what Don_P said about the notches and how
they weaken the studs. It makes sense, you remove material and the strength goes. I know
I know it's only a 20x30 and my snow load is not like Alaska and notching would work with no
problems but I'm choosing the sister-stud method because it's a lot easier. Thank you all for
taking the time to help me like that.

This last weekends project was to put an interior wall with a door in it and then add a 36x36
window to the back end of our 12x32 storage cabin. As I've said when I first started this post,
about a year ago I didn't know the difference between a joist and a rafter - I just never had built
anything. Now this was the first window of my life, I never installed one before. I knew mostly
what to do because of me building my place and watching you all here but there was a few
things I never realized so I had a good time, learned a lot, and I'm more confident about installing
my own windows now.

You can see our countryplan build in the background and also the motor-home where we live in these
pics here:

(Pics coming soon)

beckhamk · January 23, 2012, 07:48:50 AM

I went with the jack stuf. I thought the ledger was alot more work and time consuming method vs the extra stud. PLus i asked pretty much the same question and saw that ledger might not meet code and about the weaker. So we went the extra stud route.

Redoverfarm · January 23, 2012, 09:35:32 PM

Just made a little but maybe significant observation Al. When you trim your windows out allow the verticle legs to come all the way down to the bottom of your lower horizontal trim board. The water is running down.

Don't give it a gap to enter before it drops off the end away from the window.

ajbremer · January 24, 2012, 05:40:18 AM

Tuesday Morning - January 24th, 2012 @ 4:14am Oklahoma

Thank you Redoverfarm,

That's a great tip. I plan to make the change as soon as possible. I also realize that there's no roof
overhang on the gable ends of my 12x32 storage building so rain could really pound the side of the
building. I need to make awnings above my windows.

Here's a good read, Wikipedia's study of 'Awning': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awning

ajbremer · January 24, 2012, 10:36:57 PM

Tuesday Night - January 24th, 2012 @ 9:33pm Oklahoma

Thanks again for your comment redoverfarm, I changed the trim on that window today in order to match your tip.
Now the vertical trim boards go down to the bottom of the lower horizontal trim board. Thank you sir.

Here's the pic of 'edited' window:

muldoon · January 24, 2012, 11:44:08 PM

Al,

I always love seeing this thread when I pop in. Your doing a great job, I love how you are learning as you go and making adjustments as necessary with new information... sometimes with some pain I imagine. Even though your moving along fast I still can't wait to see how it finishes, it's gonna be great.

January 25, 2012, 06:26:25 AM

Wednesday Morning - January 25th, 2012 @ 5:11am Oklahoma

Thanks for the uplifting comment muldoon.

I went back and read through your '16x24 Used Gambrel Barn in Texas' thread, I got a lot of great ideas from it and just wondered why there hasn't been postings on it. 16x24 is the same square footage as my 12x32 but if I could go back I think I would rather have more width then length.

( muldoon's thread: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4737.0 )

Do you have another build thread here and how it that place coming along? I also couldn't help but notice the
classical guitar off in the corner pictured in your thread. There's no better feeling than to get in your own place and hit a couple of sweet notes and chords! I play Chet Atkins and Jerry Reed stuff mostly on my nylon string. I kind of have a mini-recording studio and lay down my own tracks. Here's a link to a soft and nice tune that Jerry Reed and Chet Atkins did in 1972, I tried my best to copy the exact way that they sounded together. I recorded two tracks using my classical, added keyboard and percussion - it turned out pretty good:

Listen here: http://www.mrmachinist.net/serenade.mp3

Sassy · January 25, 2012, 07:30:35 PM

Nice - thanks for posting! Enjoyed listening

carroll · January 25, 2012, 10:05:23 PM

I agree with Sassy -- very nice!

And I like the look of your windows as well -- learn at least one new thing every day on this forum -- and usually a whole lot more than just one!

I'm enjoying following your progress.

carroll

carroll · January 25, 2012, 10:06:13 PM

PS I enjoyed listening -- thank you for sharing your music with us!

MountainDon · January 26, 2012, 09:19:27 AM

if you are going to use extra studs to hold up the ledger I think you should first install a 2x on the floor as a bottom plate. Then cut and placw the suds on top of that and against the existing studs. That will help spread out the load and give a nailer for any base trim. Maybe you were going to do that but I thought I'd mrntion it.