Rainwater Harvesting.... intro?

[duncanshannon]

Hi- 

I searched the forum and saw a few posts that had some info... but I wanted to ask perhaps some more basic questions about rainwater harvesting.

I have raw land that I'm going to be camping on for a few years, and building later.  I'm wondering if I can collect rain water, "process" it / store it and use it for drinking, cooking and some basic 'showering' for while we camp.. and if its robust enough, use it instead of a well when I build.

I have visions of a building some sort of structure to hold a tank above ground and being able to shower from that.  Maybe installing one of those little water heaters and building an out door shower like i've seen a few of here.

I've found tanks on line, some have pumps in them.   I get I need a roof or some surface to help collect the water and get it into the tank.

What do I need to do from there?  How do you need to think about storing the water for future use... so it doesnt get all gross and nasty.

Do you need two tanks - one for collecting and one for 'filtered' water that can be stored longer?  what about another filter to drink out of? 

I tried to google rainwater harvesting (and a few variations on that) and most of what I found was for gardening purposes.  I know people have done it hear... whats the scoop!!??

If it only lasts/works for camping type use I'm ok with that.  If I might as well build something that can keep me from drilling a well (and spending all that money) then great!  The priority is for near term to make the land a little more likely to be used by the wife and family!

Thanks in advance,

Duncan

[MountainDon]

Homes in the FL Keys all used to depend on stored rainwater for all purposes back before the keys began to be developed. So, yes collection and storage can supply all needs. Then it becomes a matter of having sufficient storage volume to carry through the dry times. It is probably better to have more than one basic collection tank. That permits running one dry to clean and still having water for use. Stored water keeps better in total darkness so if you plan for above ground tanks you will need the dark green or black variety. That's about all I can think of right off hand. But yes you would need particulate filters, then maybe taste/odor filters and a method to kill pathogens before use. UV units work well with no chemicals.

[duncanshannon]

Thanks Don.

Got any materials you can point me at so I could design a system that fits my needs?  Tanks, filters, heaters, etc etc.?

[MartyM]

I am hoping to do the same and avoid a well for as long as I can.  I found this   http://www.twdb.state.tx.us/publications/reports/RainwaterHarvestingManual_3rdedition.pdf

But if some one has a working system I would really like to learn from there success. 

[MountainDon]

That TX handbook is very good. I have a copy someplace here. Lots of folks in TX have catchment systems including Bush's Crawford TX ranch.

You might think of building concrete tanks. That's what I recall was used in the FL keys. Under the house in some cases, above ground and stuccoed in others.

Places like FL with high humidity and A/C often collect the condensate from the A/C unit.

[MountainDon]

http://www.arcsa.org/

[dug]

I've plugged this guy before but I suppose One more time won't hurt. 

http://www.harvestingrainwater.com/

I think it is an enjoyable and informative book. Though much of it is about gardening it employs a comprehensive plan starting with the tap water. The author uses rainwater for showers, drinking, etc., and the waste flows to gardens and orchards.

More options for storage tanks- steel culvert pipe (sunk into a concrete slab) or a concrete septic tank. A friend recently got one and they configured the plumbing for that purpose, no extra charge!

[duncanshannon]

thanks folks... those are handy.  I too would love to hear from someone that built one and is enjoying it...

This was a good read for info about filtering for making it potable... sounds like the short answer is filter/clean and then store it in a small pressure tank if you want to drink it.

http://www.harvesth2o.com/filtration_purification.shtml

[dug]

I built 2 of them at my old place that I sold about 5 years ago, I plan on building a couple more like them here.

I used 4 ft diameter steel culvert pipe purchased from a highway supply company, they cut them to specified length. I first buries a 1 inch supply line pipe and stubbed out a 2 inch overflow pipe. Then I poured about a 5.5 ft. sq. slab around these pipes and set the culvert about 8 in. deep into the wet slab. I finished out the overflow pipe to terminate about 6 in, from the top of the culvert and built a wooden lid that fit pretty tight.

I had two of these at opposite corners of my house, and it was great to hear them fill up during a storm   - they filled up quick! We couldn't use it for drinking because the roof was coated asphalt, we mostly used the water for gardening.

Make sure you use a non painted metal or something similar to ensure clean drinking water.

[Squirl]

It depends on where you are to allow for year round above ground water storage.
It depends on where you if you can continue to use it to replace a well.  I am partial to the ohio guide.  The state puts it out.  It is very similar to the Texas one.  It is codified as part of their health department laws.  Usually state health department laws control drinking water safety.  The national sanitation foundation puts out a guide also.  The NSF is generally accepted as the standard in most states.  So it depends on your state and locality if you can use one instead of a well. 

This was a primary concern for me. I have a huge fear of drilling as deep as my pockets will go. I am also going with a solar electric system.  So water pumping from a deep well takes a lot of energy.  When I called my building inspector this week about a septic test, he remembered I wanted a solar electric system.  He wanted to send me an article on how to catch rainwater for potable use.  It all depends on location.

[Dave Sparks]

thanks folks... those are handy.  I too would love to hear from someone that built one and is enjoying it...

This was a good read for info about filtering for making it potable... sounds like the short answer is filter/clean and then store it in a small pressure tank if you want to drink it.

http://www.harvesth2o.com/filtration_purification.shtml

I got lazy and used tanks! If I ever have the time and extra cash i will go back to a cement cistern. Here is a link to some pix.

https://picasaweb.google.com/campososolar/MyPictures#

[UK4X4]

In southern spain almost every farm has rain water collection- usually the tank is behind the house like a large concrete deck
with the containment below.

In some cases part of the foundation ' ie in the US you'd call it a walk out basement, there they simply make a huge tank instead !

These are also dotted arround the finca's hillsides - usually built into the side of a hilll both collecting water running from above and storing it and then distributing it below to the oranges or olive trees

[duncanshannon]

So I'm slowly figuring this out.. here is where I'm at trying to design the components of the 'system'



i know its not quite right yet....

i get the need to catch the water, need to store it.  I also get i need a 'shower head and heater' (which I found on amazon). 

Do i need additional storage tanks for the 'shower water' and another for 'drinking water'?    What do I need for filtering the water? 

Again.. i'm looking to build a basic system that i can use to make it a little more enjoyable while we camp on the land for the next few years. If it can be expaneded into the cabin build in 5 years and can avoid drilling a well.. then great!

[Squirl]

It depends.  How much are you looking to spend?  How are you looking to spend?  Are you looking to go as cheap as possible for a cabin and have to buy whole new components later?  Are you looking to buy your full sized system parts now?

These are my two pennies worth.  Catch rain into a down spout.  Place some type of screen filter or maybe a 5 gallon bucket with rocks and sand to filter out large solids.  Let the water collect in a large plastic tank.  Plastic tanks are cheap.  When you arrive to camp, pump the water through your filtration system into a clean tank.  Use as necessary.  Water will keep indefinitely if nothing is in it.  When it comes to the end of the season drain all system components before freezing.  For the filtration system I would go with a full house sized UV filter and .1 micron filter.  This way you spend the money once and not end up with components you can't use.  I was looking at a .1 micron filter at Lowes for $200 and a 8 gpm uv filter on amazon for $300 for myself. You can replace the plastic tanks with cisterns for freeze protection later.  Traditionally, there is only the cistern, then water filtration system, then that becomes the water supply for the house, just like a well.

[duncanshannon]

thx squirl.

i don't know yet!  i dont really know what the my choices are yet.  Low cost is always good.  The idea of collecting into a large plastic tank and then upon arrival, filter into a clean tank seems good.

would use this for shower and drinking or just drinking?

2-300$ for a filter is reasonable.... and i like the 'upgrade path' from pastic to cistern later.

can you link to some of the uv and .1 micron filters you were looking at? 

[Squirl]

I was looking at this for the water filter.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_329330-43353-WHEMB_0__?productId=3295298&Ntt=water+filter&Ns=p_product_price|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNs%3Dp_product_price%7C1%26Ntt%3Dwater%2Bfilter&facetInfo=

It had the highest ratings and is one of the only filters they have rated for cysts and microorganisms.   This usually means a .1 micron filter.  I am little concerned about the flow rate though because it is listed for sinks.  The other reason I was looking at it was because the big box stores usually have a liberal return policy and they are local.  Also I would need replacement filters which they could supply. I have read stories of people simply buying the cheaper filter cases and swapping out the .1 micron replacement filters into them.  The most important thing is to get it down to .1 microns to filter out most of the cysts and micro organisms before the UV filter.  I am also looking at the swap out option, or more than one connected in parallel if the flow rate isn't high enough.

Unfortunately I couldn't find any UV filters for sale locally so I looked on Amazon. I was looking at:
http://www.amazon.com/Watts-270154-4-Inch-110-Volt-Disinfection/dp/B0018N0WT2/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1309352948&sr=8-29

I figured that my max flow rate was 5 gpm for the house.  I thought by going with the  higher rated light and pumping it through at a lower rate would allow it to bombard those suckers with a double dose of UV light.  The 12 gpm light is only $20 extra.  The higher GPM model has great reviews on the site.  The lower GPM models have horrible reviews, so I'm a little on the fence.  The bulbs are rated for 24 hours a day service for a year.  I checked the local big box stores sell replacement bulbs for these filters.

My choice would be to use it to supply all water.  No use showering with dirty water that might have bird poop in it.  I remember you mentioned a wife once.  Ladies especially like micro organism free water to shower in.

[archimedes]

I found this place had a good selection and price on what you need.

You'll probably need two filters (in line),  then a UV sterilizer if you plan on drinking the water.

http://www.cleanwaterstore.com/