can anyone find the crime here?

[muldoon]

http://www.eagletribune.com/punewshh/local_story_135220825.html?keyword=topstory

I dont get it.. what did he do wrong? 

[NM_Shooter]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR 

[Virginia Gent]

Clearly this man is an Extreme-Right Wing Terrorist for wanting to own a firearm and/or ammo. There you go. Thank you DHS! /sarcasm

[ScottA]

We're all living in Amerika now. 

[Phssthpok]

http://www.eagletribune.com/punewshh/local_story_135220825.html?keyword=topstory

I dont get it.. what did he do wrong? 

Pulled from another forum I frequent (FWIW):

In Massachusetts it is illegal to possess a firearm capable of accepting a magazine with a capacity greater than 10 rounds unless you have a License to Carry Class A (LTC-A).

Definition:
"A weapon is large capacity if it is a semi-automatic handgun or rifle that is capable of accepting (or readily modifiable to accept) any detachable large capacity feeding device that holds more than ten rounds, OR if it is a shotgun capable of accepting more than five shotgun shells, OR if it is an assault weapon."

A new resident of Massachusetts has 60 days from when they move to acquire a LTC or FID (firearm identification card), the FID is shall-issue and only allows low-capacity rifles and shotguns but the LTC is may-issue at the discretion of the local chief of police.

The situation is further complicated because the guy is not yet a Citizen and non-Citizens are only allowed FIDs not LTCs in MA so he would not have been able to get a LTC within the 60 days to make his handguns legal.

With regards to the ammo there is a law in MA that requires a permit from the local fire department if you want to possess more than 10k rounds of rimfire, 10k centerfire or 5k shotgun shells.

He has also been charged with 3 counts of unlawful storage - in MA if a gun isn't directly under your control it needs to be in a locked container or have a trigger lock (or similar device) installed.

Of the three charges (high-capacity, ammo, storage) the storage charges are the ones most likely to get him locked up. The punishment for each count of unlawful storage is 2.5 to 10 years in prison and/or a fine of $5000-$10000.

So in other words yes the guy broke one or more laws that he probably knew nothing about and they are using that to keep him locked up while they see if they can find something else. Even if they find no connection to smuggling he is screwed on the storage charges and will likely spend years in jail before being deported.

I wonder how many people will do the math to verify the veracity of the prosecutors statements.

Keni Garcia told police he intended to use the 30,000 bullets they found in his car and home for target practice.

That is hard to believe, the prosecutor at Garcia's arraignment said, because if he were to fire a gun for eight hours a day, it would take weeks for him to use all of it.

First of oall the implication in this statement is that said ammunition was to be used all at once, but lets do some math ourselves, shall we? Llet us for the sake of argument say that he averages 1 shot every 5 seconds for 8 hours. (I know I couldn't hold back that much, but let's just give the other side an advantage in the maths, shall we?)

So 12shots/minute.....60 minutes/hour....8 hours...gives us....5 DAYS! Not even one full week let alone multiple WEEKS!

Can a prosecuting attny. be charge with perjury for statements made during arraignment?

[Squirl]

Clearly this man is an Extreme-Right Wing Terrorist for wanting to own a firearm and/or ammo. There you go. Thank you DHS! /sarcasm

BTW this is not DHS or the Federal Government.

Phssthpok seems to have it broken down pretty well.  These are local Mass. Laws.  What made most of this illegal was that he was not a U.S. citizen.  Whenever I moved or transported my guns across state lines to another jurisdiction, I checked the local laws. 

[MountainDon]

Well, okay now I can understand the charges from the standpoint of the letter of the law. It still stinks. Thanks Phssthpok .

Squirl, raises an excellent point on knowing the rules where you are and where you may go. Ignorance is seldom accepted as a valid excuse. I have investigated the gun carrying rules in the states immediately surrounding my state of NM. I've never run across an ammunition limitation. I hope I've covered all my bases.

[muldoon]

local mass laws . . . o O ( they dont call it mass-of-two-shits for nothing ) ...

as for him not being a citizen, I believe the constitution applies to anyone on US soil.  The all men are created equal part... 

And I just dont understand why they indicate he may be exporting it.  The prosecutor is saying It's like gold there .. christ, ammo is nearly worth it's weight in gold HERE these days. 

[MountainDon]

........ I believe the constitution applies to anyone on US soil.  ........

As far as gun laws go the same rights that citizens enjoy are usually fully extended to non citizens who have a legal residency in the USA. There are exceptions. For example; in NM a non citizen, but otherwise legal resident, may not be issued a concealed carry permit. Then there's the WA state prohibition against a non citizen, but otherwise legal resident, to "receive" a firearm or any type. I'm sure there are plenty of this sort of exemption.

[Phssthpok]

Here's another question:

Why was he pulled over in the first place?

the article states that he was arrested after exiting the interstate. Where's the crime in that?

Even if it was a simple traffic stop, what led to the LEO's on-scene to search the car? (assuming it wasn't a pickup which it probably was given that he was lugging 10k rounds of ammo...unless it was 10k rounds of .22...)


Nickles worth of free advice, folks:

DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE!
(try to look past teh editorializing of the blogger and just watch the video )

[Phssthpok]

........ I believe the constitution applies to anyone on US soil.  ........

Then there's the WA state prohibition against a non citizen, but otherwise legal resident, to "receive" a firearm or any type. I'm sure there are plenty of this sort of exemption.

Not ENTIRELY true....a non-citizen legal resident, MAY acquire an AFL (Alien Firearms License) and one in one's possession a CPL is just as easy (shall issue) to acquire as any any other lawful person (read: non-felon, etc.)

[Sonoran]

DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE!
(try to look past teh editorializing of the blogger and just watch the video )

I just watched a 20 min video the other day which was the 2nd part of a 3 vid series.  It was some kind of police investigator who would question suspects.  He was telling about how he gets people and the moral of the story is exactly what you say. Don't talk to the police.  I'll look it up and post a link if I can find it again. (Elapsed time 2 min) Found it.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

[Phssthpok]

Yep... That video you posted is the second half of the lecture. It's linked at the same blog that I linked to.

[Minicup28]

I work in Haverhill and as much as I defend my right to own & posess I would be wary of this situation. In NH it's a whole different scene. If it was his true intent to use for personal use he would stay there. That much ammo in that locale is cetaily suspicious and I would hold him until his prior target practice access & average usage is verified. MA is certainly not gun friendly. I grew up in Tucson, AZ in the 60's when it was common to see everyone carrying. I have to say you did not flip someone a salute in traffic or get outraged at simple impolite acts. You had to assume the other guy was carrying. In those days they really did have gun check racks at the local watering holes with a Clint Eastwood type checking ID's & guns.

[Sonoran]

Yep... That video you posted is the second half of the lecture. It's linked at the same blog that I linked to.

Oops.  I scanned most of this page and didn't follow the links.

My favorite part of the second video is when he talks about pulling people over.  I've been saying this for a while...I'm in the process to be a CHP.  If an officer wants to pull you over, he will get you "legally" eventually.  (Cracked windshield, broken tail light, registration, seat belt, littering, speeding 1 mph over the limit, bald tires, modified exhaust, no signal, dangerous lane change, didn't stop completley and on and on)

I believe a lot of laws are created to give officers a chance to pull over a greater amount of people which allows them to check your background once they get you.

It's a good and bad thing. The bad is that people have to pay tickets for worthless things. The good thing is that a cop could pull someone over for a small crack in the windshield, run the plates and ID and finds out: Car is stolen, wanted felon/sex offender who is on parole, there's a stash of drugs in the trunk, 9mm in the glove box. Then it's a good thing.

[peternap]

Sure glad I don't live there...I'd be in deep shitz!

[diyfrank]

I never believe what is in a news story. Theres a lot more to this than was printed.

[MountainDon]

Not ENTIRELY true....a non-citizen legal resident, MAY acquire an AFL (Alien Firearms License)

Ditto. The problem in WA state was that the state ceased issuing Alien Firearm Licenses due to a dispute with the FBI on obtaining background checks. There is or was a lawsuit brought by the NRA. I have no idea if it has been resolved.

The point is that laws just across the state line can be very different and simply being from out of state does not make you innocent.

Example; here in NM my motor vehicle is considered an extension of my residence. I can carry loaded rifles and shotguns in the vehicle in NM, as long as they are for lawful protection of person or property. I can also carry a concealed handgun without a CC permit as long as I remain in the vehicle or am on my own, leased or licensed to use, real estate.  Kiddie corner to NM, the rifles, etc. in a motor vehicle must be unloaded  and securely encased (not including a glove box or console box) and not readily accessible for immediate use. AZ does not allow carrying of loaded accessible firearms in a vehicle either. This can be a real PITA in a vehicle with no trunk space.

The laws can be very confusing from state to state. NM makes it pretty easy though.

[ScottA]

In Oklahoma you can get in trouble for having a loaded gun laying on your hood while parked in the woods. Now that's wierd. But you can have the same loaded gun in your hand so long as it and you are not touching the vehicle.

[NM_Shooter]

Damn Massholes.

The cars and golf clubs in the Kennedy houses have killed more people than the guns in mine.

[Phssthpok]

Not ENTIRELY true....a non-citizen legal resident, MAY acquire an AFL (Alien Firearms License)

Ditto. The problem in WA state was that the state ceased issuing Alien Firearm Licenses due to a dispute with the FBI on obtaining background checks. There is or was a lawsuit brought by the NRA. I have no idea if it has been resolved.

The point is that laws just across the state line can be very different and simply being from out of state does not make you innocent.

Example; here in NM my motor vehicle is considered an extension of my residence. I can carry loaded rifles and shotguns in the vehicle in NM, as long as they are for lawful protection of person or property. I can also carry a concealed handgun without a CC permit as long as I remain in the vehicle or am on my own, leased or licensed to use, real estate.  Kiddie corner to NM, the rifles, etc. in a motor vehicle must be unloaded  and securely encased (not including a glove box or console box) and not readily accessible for immediate use. AZ does not allow carrying of loaded accessible firearms in a vehicle either. This can be a real PITA in a vehicle with no trunk space.

The laws can be very confusing from state to state. NM makes it pretty easy though.

I suppose I could have included the information that, yes indeed, the AFL situation has been resolved, and the DOL is once again issuing AFL's in accordance with state law.

As I remember it the issue had to do with the FBI not granting the Department of Licensing (DOL) access to records checks because they were not 'law enforcement', and the law enforcement agencies in the state were not able to do the checks, as it was specified in state law that AFL's were the sole domain of the DOL to process/issue.

A good resource for those interested in the differences in gunlaws between states is OpenCarry.org. Combining the data in their Carry Maps with the reciprocity information at Handgunlaw.us should answer almost any question of carrying legality the average Joe may have.

(According to the ODCO maps, Az permits the transportation of loaded firearms either in a glove box, or carried UNCONCEALED. )

***ETA***

Arizona Revised Statutes

13-3102. Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions

A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:

1. Carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112 except a pocket knife concealed on his person; or

2. Carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112 concealed within immediate control of any person in or on a means of transportation;
*
*
*
*
*
F. Subsection A, paragraph 1 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a belt holster that is wholly or partially visible, or carried in a scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons that is wholly or partially visible or carried in luggage. Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage that is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, map pocket, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.

Yer good to go in AZ! (Az honors ALL other states permits!)

[muldoon]

I know this is not directly related to the thread topic, but this is probably just a good a thread as any to hijack.  I know several people on here have concealed carry licenses, and I know a few personally as well.  I have considered it quite a bit but decided not to pursue it.  I am curious what others would think of my line of thinking... 

When you get the license, you accept new restrictions on what you can and cannot do.  (The rules change for the CHL holder).  You also very visibly are shown to know the laws and responsibilities.   In fact you must pass a test on them, and then sign that you agree to them. 

Thats my hangup.  I do not agree with limitations, and I just cannot agree and sign a piece of paper agreeing to them.  It's one thing to break some BS unconstitutional law like in Mass, but once you sign a piece of paper saying you understand those laws and agree to them in full you kinda lose that leg to stand on.  I would rather have no piece of paper and fall back to 2nd amendment/castle laws - or worse - a group of 12, and take my chances then agree to more laws and restrictions...

Am I just being stubborn and offbase here? 

[Phssthpok]

No.. you're thinking like a free man.

[Pox Eclipse]

Legal questions aside, it does explain the ammo shortage.  He can't be the only one who has 30,000 rounds just for driving around.

[MountainDon]

Phssthpok, thanks about correcting the AZ info. Maybe I have a failed memory, maybe something changed, 


PE, yeah that occurred to me too and then I forgot the thought by the time I concluded the post.  crimoney!!


muldoon, even if one elects to not apply and receive a concealed carry permit, I believe we all benefit from those that do. The more common CC becomes the more cautious those who would prey on the innocent. At least that's a theory.

NM CC rules are not too onerous, IMO.