Big Brother and Schools and Chipping Kids......

glenn kangiser · November 25, 2012, 12:49:06 PM

http://rt.com/usa/news/rfid-badge-texas-hernandez-269/

Andrea Hernandez refuses the chip and will likely get kicked out.

More power to you Andrea. A Mexican American student who is more American than Big Brother.

MountainDon · November 25, 2012, 02:47:44 PM

I'm not at all sure what the solutions to various school problems are* but I strongly feel that RFID's are just an intrusion into our personal lives. This is yet another example of bringing the bulk of the population down to the lowest common denominator. Have slow learners in the class? Drag the bright kids down to their level. Have kids who are truant; put a lease on the whole school. BS!! The bad influences are kept in the mainstream school population as much as they can and are allowed to bend the curve down because to remove them might make the low achievers feel bad about themselves. Can't have that, it's not PC. BS!!

Where does the surveillance end? Who decides? Next thing you will have the reading / tracking hardware located in the community centers, government offices, public library, etc. This is definitely not an idea whose time has come. If anyone thinks this is a great idea think about whether or nor you would like to be chipped or carded or whatever name you'd like to use. Even if you are totally honest what does the surveillance do to your personal freedom and liberty? All in the name of safety for the common good, I suppose.

Again, BS

* a PostScript... Many of the issues in todays schools are, IMO, the result of poor nutrition combined with the uncomprehendingly vast array of childhood vaccines that are administered irregardless of one's personal wishes. My opinion on vaccines has evolved to where I believe we did better in the past, the years of my childhood. Today the pharmaceutical companies have taken over and convinced the doctors that I should be vaccinated against a plethora of supposed risks just because I had my 65th birthday. But that is yet another story.

November 25, 2012, 03:28:24 PM

Further thought.... if I as a parent want to track my kid(s), then I can do that. But the state has no business implementing any tracking unless I give written consent.

Windpower · November 25, 2012, 05:52:56 PM

Right on, Don !

Woodsrule · November 26, 2012, 12:32:57 PM

Don and others: exactly right; this idea is an intrusive, invasive, blockheaded initiative and I applaud anyone who resists it. Tracking folks is never an idea that I will agree to and this is akin to all the ridiculous measures taken by TSA in the airports for our "safety." We are nearly to the point where we as as society will give up any God given rights just to fly in an airplane. We almost don't think about children being patted down, women being x-rayed in a full body machine that shows nearly everything, fingernail clippers being confiscated, etc.... This girl and others have it just right.

November 27, 2012, 09:01:45 AM

I agree, Don. My granddaughter became ill near death from vaccinations. A friends son became autistic right after a vaccination. Not a coincidence I think.

For those who want to track their kids or insure their safety... there are cellphone apps that will show you where they are 100% of the day.... just like the one Big Brother uses on all cell phone users like me, though it is for civilians....

NM_Shooter · November 28, 2012, 04:07:23 PM

I'm on the fence on this one, and will play devil's advocate.

How does this differ from taking attendance in class or being asked to show a school id for any activity in the school? If this girl is worried about a unique number being assigned to her being the mark of the beast, then she probably should not ever get a social security card, driver's license, passport, credit card, mailing address or netflix account.

How many of you who are arguing against this allow your state to put a magnetic strip on the back of your driver's license?

Seems to me this is just a more efficient way of taking attendance and knowing where students are.

Having one kid in HS and one that just finished, I can guarantee that schools are (still) complete chaos, with with kids wandering the hallways and in areas that they simply are not supposed to be, doing things that they are not supposed to be doing.

I want my teachers and administrators teaching, not playing baby-sitter. If technology has the ability to lighten the administrative role and make teaching more efficient, then I have a hard time dismissing that argument.

So..... why is this not just a more comprehensive way of taking attendance and ensuring that kids are where they are supposed to be? If they were requireing tracking information off of school grounds, then I would join the chorus of complaints. But this is just for school grounds / activities, right?

If we are offended by this, then we should probably be offended by a lower technology form of this.... such as taking role in class.

firefox · November 28, 2012, 09:59:37 PM

But this is just for school grounds / activities, right?

I think the point here is that the above will graduate to chiping everone in
the country before you realize that things have gone to far. And then it
will be too late. All with good intentions..................................
Bruce

MountainDon · November 28, 2012, 10:24:15 PM

That is my cause for worry. Open the door a little bit and before you know it we all have an ID card with an RFID we need to carry everywhere.

November 28, 2012, 11:44:30 PM

Quote from: MountainDon on November 28, 2012, 10:24:15 PM
That is my cause for worry. Open the door a little bit and before you know it we all have an ID card with an RFID we need to carry everywhere.

Not a question of if, but when. Big Brother *is* watching!

Windpower · November 29, 2012, 09:49:31 AM

I am reading a book by Dr. John Coleman. He has been researching our 'handlers' for 40 years

It is a well researched and documented study of history focusing especially on the last 150 years

Here is another interesting book published in 1982 of a Stanford Research Institute (SRI) study completed in 1972 for the Club of Rome (who paid for the study)

The premise of "Changing Images of Man" as presented to SRI by the Club of Rome was that the United States would be de-industrialized (essentially all industry moved out of the country). SRI was to study how best to condition the people of the US for this change and how to help them adapt to the 'scarcity' (code word for reduction in quality of life) this change would cause, especially for the middle class.

It is available but expensive -- I did find 6 copies on Amazon from $149 to $270 if you are interested

There was a PDF copy a while back on the net -- not sure if it is still there

NM_Shooter · November 29, 2012, 09:53:55 AM

Rob_O is exactly right.

We are already chipped and we are used to it.....

Cell phones being the biggest one. Your provider knows exactly which cell you are on and what your movement patterns are. Computer use probably being the second. Credit or debit card too. Swipe a customer loyalty card at a store and you are "chipped". Your face is already scanned by recognition software when you get your driver's license, and scanned at airports and other public places. Your electricity and natural gas usage is monitored.

You get monitored at theme parks now (Disney was the first to implement fingerprint scanners). Even ski areas use barcodes and scan you to know what the lift use is.

Social security, income tax, prescription drugs, firearm purchase, social media, number of posts to countryplans.com....everything recorded. Want to know what the real mark of the beast is? Your IP address.

In the case of a school, knowing where kids are at is not a bad thing. They already do this when they take attendance. In case of a fire or another school emergency it could be life saving to know exactly what part of the building people are in.

Big brother has been here for a long, long time.

So I'll ask again... why be against electronic monitoring if you are not against old-fashioned roll taking in schools? It is the exact same thing, only with a modern technology.

Saying that kids will grow up to be used to it is pointless. We are already used to it. (And remember to moo! the next time you go through a TSA line).

Windpower · November 29, 2012, 10:15:41 AM

You are so right NM

turn in your guns now

NM_Shooter · November 29, 2012, 10:16:54 AM

I got no guns. They were all eaten by locusts.

November 29, 2012, 10:20:19 AM

Quote from: NM_Shooter on November 29, 2012, 09:53:55 AM
Rob_O is exactly right.

We are already chipped and we are used to it.....

Big brother has been here for a long, long time.

You forgot to mention the "key code" cards some have to swipe to access their place of employment... but yeah.

MountainDon · November 29, 2012, 10:38:03 AM

Yes there are many intrusions. But does that mean we should be happy to have more. I do agree that in the school as presented there could be some value. However, I see an ongoing erosion of privacy. Where will this lead?

I do not want to see us in the USA being required by the federal government to carry an ID card at all times. That is the reason I choose to be vehemently against this. Just because there are ID's used for some things right now does not translate into more ID cards being a good idea.

MountainDon · November 29, 2012, 10:43:10 AM

IMO. a magnetic stripe is not as intrusive as an RFID. The magnetic stripe can tell where I was and maybe what I did, the RFID can tell where I am.

NM_Shooter · November 29, 2012, 12:39:35 PM

Lots of cliches for this one. Death by a thousand cuts. Boiling frogs. Whatever you want to call it, it is incremental.

If we are going to worry about erosion of privacy with regards to information and monitoring, what is the acceptable threshold?

Magnetic stripes are not as bad as RFID cards which are not as bad as cell phones which are not as bad as drones hovering in our back yards.

I don't want to have to carry national ID cards either. (Anybody in NM know what our local laws are for needing to produce ID if a cop asks? I'm curious on that one.)

But if erosion is the concern, be worried about the least bit as much as something higher up. Over time, it all adds up.

I think that an RFID card for a student in public school is an acceptable use of technology. I think it is odd how we have all these other gross abuses of privacy and yet we have latched onto this.

NM_Shooter · November 29, 2012, 01:20:28 PM

Apologies for the thread drift... I found interesting stuff on presenting ID if asked. Varies state by state.

Here in NM, If asked, we have to provide identifying information. That consists of Name, DOB, Address, SS Number.

It appears that a driver's license only needs to be presented if stopped while driving.

http://www.nmlea.dps.state.nm.us/legal/documents/Laws_of_Arrest-Part_II.pdf

peternap · December 04, 2012, 08:37:43 PM

Well NM. in Va you don't have to produce ID or even talk to a Cop, Magnet strips are easy to defeat and pre pay cell phones are anonymous.

I agree with everything Don said.

Saying it's here so we should just live with it is like the people that keep saying, you don't own your property.

For those folks suicidal enough to prove it, they have an open invitation to just come over and take it.

How could any sane person think chipping a student is a good thing?

December 04, 2012, 08:50:31 PM

How could a sane person say it is anything other than taking attendance?

peternap · December 04, 2012, 09:11:28 PM

The gap is too wide to even argue that one.

NM_Shooter · December 04, 2012, 10:19:35 PM

Nah, I suspect that it is mostly that you don't have a leg to stand on.

They are the same. One is electronic. One is not. Both account for the whereabouts of the child while in school. One is more comprehensive and less labor intensive, that is the only difference.

peternap · December 05, 2012, 03:25:45 AM

Quote from: NM_Shooter on December 04, 2012, 10:19:35 PM
Nah, I suspect that it is mostly that you don't have a leg to stand on.

I think that's the same type of snippy reply that Sarah Brady makes when she pushes her gun control agenda.

The difference is obvious to some of us. There's an old saying, "Don't whiz down my back and tell me it's raining"...so don't tell me it's raining.

This is an invasive attempt to control the movements of the kids and worse yet, to indoctrinate them. They want the kids to think it's the way things should be but the truth is, it's like a brainwashed victim of child molestation. It's not normal or right despite how you try to paint it.

Like I said....the gap is too wide to even argue. Raise your kids the way you want.

Windpower · December 05, 2012, 08:16:46 AM

"This is an invasive attempt to control the movements of the kids and worse yet, to indoctrinate them. They want the kids to think it's the way things should be but the truth is, it's like a brainwashed victim of child molestation. It's not normal or right despite how you try to paint it."

You are exactly correct, Peter