The American Soldier who Murdered Afghan Citizens

[peternap]

This is bound to stir a lot of differing opinions.

First, trying to take Afghanistan was a mistake in my opinion. No one's ever really managed to do it and w had no real reason to try.

Second, according to the returning military people I know, we have sortof secured the towns but the countryside is still very much out of U.S. control.

Now, on to the US soldier who massacred 16 villagers on Sunday. We have moved him to Kuwait. WHY?
Sure he has mental problems....so what? This wasn't an act of war and if it were, he should be tried as a war criminal.

What he did was murder, pure and simple. It was a horrible criminal act. Why is the Military protecting him instead of letting the local authorities handle it. They would kill him but he deserves it and that's their way of dealing with cold blooded murder.

I just don't see much defense here and I have to sympathize with the locals. If that were one of my kids he killed and I couldn't get to him, I'd make a hobby out of shooting everything wearing a uniform.

[Windpower]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/13/slaughter-in-afghanistan-duff-on-press-tv/

Gordon Duff who has lots of sources within the armed forces and intel insists that it was not a single 'crazy sargent' but a group of soldiers

He noted that a single soldier would never be allowed off base after midnight

the Afghan witnesses that survived also said there were more than one soldier


Something sure does stink .....

[Squirl]

I agree something does seem off here.  It been almost a week and they refuse to release his name.  They also haven't charged him with anything.  I don't know how the Uniform Code of Military Justice works, but in the U.S. you are at least charged with a crime and it is up to the courts to determine if you were legally insane at the time.  Also his family has been put into protection?  I've never heard of that.

I don't really trust that veteranstoday site.  They were the ones that published the "secret Fed dealings" article that was a blatant scam.  Also they are reprinting it from the Iranian government news agency PressTV.  Why would I trust their government over my own.  I hope he didn't pay press TV for the article or get paid for the interview.  They are stepping up prosecutions of financial dealings with the Iranian government.

[Windpower]

At 2 minutes local Afghan official "Still is NOT convinced that this was the work of only one man"



[embed=425,349]http://youtu.be/A179lnIeTbU[/embed]

[muldoon]

There is no such thing as a polite war.  War is hell.  War is full of atrocities.  If you don't like war, support ending it.  I do. 

[rick91351]

This whole thing stinkth greatly I think...... Be it one, two or twenty. 

[sparks]

  I believe this guy just finally snapped. Sad, but it happens. There were a couple of incidents in Viet Nam like this also.....Mi Lai?


  sparks

[peternap]

There is no such thing as a polite war.  War is hell.  War is full of atrocities.  If you don't like war, support ending it.  I do.

I hope you don't really mean that Muldoon.
War isn't new and the only real difference between this war and Viet Nam is that they aren't getting Jock Rot on their feet in this one.

Atrocities did happen in the 60's just like this and the people committing them often didn't make it through the week.
The only people that snapped like that were flakes. There is a world of difference between killing the enemy and murdering men, women and children just for the hell of it.

It does get confusing but most decent people can see the line.

[NM_Shooter]

War should be an all-in or all-out proposition.  This police action B.S. has already been proven not to work. 

Putting troops in amongst enemy combatants who hide under the guise of innocent civilianship results in situations such as this. 

 

[muldoon]

There is no such thing as a polite war.  War is hell.  War is full of atrocities.  If you don't like war, support ending it.  I do.

I hope you don't really mean that Muldoon.
War isn't new and the only real difference between this war and Viet Nam is that they aren't getting Jock Rot on their feet in this one.

Atrocities did happen in the 60's just like this and the people committing them often didn't make it through the week.
The only people that snapped like that were flakes. There is a world of difference between killing the enemy and murdering men, women and children just for the hell of it.

It does get confusing but most decent people can see the line.

I do mean it, but perhaps I should explain where I am coming from.  I am not saying what happened is right, or that I agree with it.  I am saying this happens in war. 

They take these teenagers from all over the usa and ship them over to the desert and give them guns.  To reinforce the aggression they teach the soldiers how the enemy is less than human.  Because if the soldiers thought of the enemy as just normal people with lives and families their would be no war.  So they dehumanize the enemy any way they can in an effort of mental self preservation; because shooting people with lives and families that love them is very devastating to anyones mind.  Killing what you tell yourself is a dog in the street is not as bad.  So you get situations like this.  It happens in every war; yes it is mostly "the flakes" as you call it; but it is a part of war. 

If you think war is a good thing, we can just agree to disagree. 

[peternap]

If you think war is a good thing, we can just agree to disagree.

No I don't think it's a good thing. Been there, Got the T shirt and didn't think so then. I was not asked my opinion in those day though.

[Woodsrule]

A lot of good opinions here; turn him over to the Afghans or not, try him there or here, war crime vs. civilian crime - all of these are interesting topics. Allow me to share my son's viewpoint. He's currently deployed and serving in Kabul. He told us that, although this atrocity is terrible and is being given the publicity it deserves, the Afghans have been much less upset with this crime than the flap over the burning of the Koran. He told us that the Afghans place much more stock in their holy book than human lives.  I anticipate that the soldier will be tried at Leavenworth and will most likely receive the death penalty. Whether or not the death penalty is applied is another matter, for a service member has not been put to death in over 50 years.

[NM_Shooter]

I can't help but think back on an interesting comparison.

Almost three years ago in Fort Hood, Major Hassan shot 41 Americans, killing 13.  We are still debating the sanity of this individual who stood there yelling "allah akbar" as he was pulling the trigger.  No trial for him yet.

I'm in no hurry for anyone to rush to judgement on Staff Sgt Bales. 

[peternap]

A lot of good opinions here; turn him over to the Afghans or not, try him there or here, war crime vs. civilian crime - all of these are interesting topics. Allow me to share my son's viewpoint. He's currently deployed and serving in Kabul. He told us that, although this atrocity is terrible and is being given the publicity it deserves, the Afghans have been much less upset with this crime than the flap over the burning of the Koran. He told us that the Afghans place much more stock in their holy book than human lives.  I anticipate that the soldier will be tried at Leavenworth and will most likely receive the death penalty. Whether or not the death penalty is applied is another matter, for a service member has not been put to death in over 50 years.

Every time I run into a returning soldier, I try to pick his brain. I like to hear what's going on for real. Every one has an opinion about this but the grapevine got cut off and no one has the good gossip.

I think your son is right, but it is another bundle of dry sticks in an already hot fire.

[Sassy]

Every time I run into a returning soldier, I try to pick his brain. I like to hear what's going on for real. Every one has an opinion about this but the grapevine got cut off and no one has the good gossip.

I think your son is right, but it is another bundle of dry sticks in an already hot fire.

Peternap, when I was working at the VA Hospital I got lots of chances to talk to returning soldiers.  Most said that the news they'd see or read from here was so often totally different than what really happened.  Many said they questioned what we were doing in Iraq & Afganistan.  There was a small % that believed wholeheartedly in what our country was doing there but most questioned our political leaders' motives. 

I always tried to be very careful in questioning & sensitive to the troops as most went over there w/good motives but often were disillusioned, especially after their 2nd, 3rd or 4th tour...  it was so sad to see many w/PTSD, traumatic brain injuries or other injuries coming home & realizing that maybe we weren't there for the right reasons & maybe they had put their lives on the line in vain...  almost a repeat of Vietnam - so much controversy but w/the internet, they are able to read other sources of news besides the controlled media in our country. 

Seems history repeats itself over & over & people never learn from it...  one nation rises up only to fall after a period of time, repeated over & over throughout the centuries...  isn't that what they call insanity?    

What if no one showed up to fight?  What would the so-called "leaders" around the world do then? 

[Windpower]

"According to the US military command in Afghanistan and the Obama regime, at 3am on March 11, 2012 a deranged soldier walked off a Special Forces Base in rural Kandahar Province and without command authority entered two villages (two miles apart), shot and killed 17 unarmed civilians, mostly women and children and wounded an unspecified number of villagers; then he doused their bodies with gasoline, set them on fire and hiked back to base to surrender himself to his commanders."

"Considering even the US official story, why would the Special Forces commanders in charge of the Sgt. Bales base ignore the loud bursts of gunfire and screams of women and children in a village within 100 meters of its perimeter at 3 am?  According to their official version, the base command only became aware of the massacres when Sgt. Bales walked back to base, raised his hands high for a video-op and confessed to killing and desecrating the bodies of 17, mostly children and women."

"Shekiba Hashimi, a Member of Parliament who was reading the report of their investigations mentioned that the Governor of Kandahar and the NATO forces' Chief Commander in Kandahar both lied to Afghan people. There was not only one soldier killing all those civilians. Our investigations shows that a team of U.S. soldiers were involved in that massacre, Mrs. Hashimi added. Mrs. Hashimi mentioned that two helicopters were supporting this operation and at least 15 U.S. soldiers were involved in this barbaric action. All female victims were naked, Mrs. Hashimi added."


more here

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/27/the-massacre-of-the-afghan-17-and-the-obama-cover-up/