Introduction

[motdaugrnds]

Hello, I was just told about this forum and thought it might be one I could both enjoy and learn from.

A little about myself. I have been a homesteader since 1995 when Mother purchased one tract of forestry located on a paved state road in the country and a 1972 trailer was offerred to us by a stranger. The idea was to create a home where we could live with what limited funds we had so as to keep Mother out of a nursing home. She had parkinsons disease; and I was tending her 24/7, doing so until she died in February 2008.

My semi-disabled son came to help; and, though we are financially at the poverty level, we did manage to get a well dug (only 78 ft deep but has served us well all these years even during times of drought) & put in the disposal system (both passing the health department codes), set up the trailer (again that passed the building codes), ran the electricity (again that passed code), built a barn and a few sheds, created a vegetable garden area and a fruit orchard and, generally, learned how to survive with what our Heavenly Father gives us. All this we did ourselves without prior experiences in doing any of it.

Now I want a home that I don't feel so vulnerable in when the winds blow. I am in the process (and will be until we figure out exactly what materials we can afford and work with that will pass building codes) of designing a small home with a basement that we can live in while completing the house. I've already spoken with the Bldg Dept here and was told the basement could be lived in as long as it had a "walk-in" entrance/exit; and since the topography of that area has a nice slope, we think this can be done.

Here are a couple of pictures to help you understand the part of our little 6-acre tract we will be excavating the basement into and building the house on. The white arrow on the first picture lets you know where the walk-in entrance/exit to basement will be. It also gives you an idea as to the degree of slope there.



The white arrow on this next picture shows where the septic tank is. (The drain field is on the slope there.) The red arrows shows where an outside water faucet is and the blue arrow shows where the well is. The white dotted lines are to let you know that, if one were to walk a straight line from one dotted line to the other, that person would be about 7 ft lower than the top of that knoll.



We do know to stay at least 20 ft from all sides of the septic tank and disposal system, at least 50 ft from the well and that the plumbing from house to septic tank needs to be 1" for each 4 ft of piping; so the legistics of "placement" is pretty well understood.

Since we have never built a "house" (from scratch) that requires adherence to building codes and since we will be having to gather "correct" materials (over an extended period of time) that can be used for this "before" purchasing the permit for such construction, I am spending much time attempting to learn what the different building codes are for this area and what materials will conform that we can actually work with "without using heavy machinery". It is my hopes some of you knowledgeable people in here can help me with this. (Please know I am what some would consider elderly; so would greatly appreciate your patience and endurance as I attempt to understand responses received. I am not at all "slow" in understanding. It is just that, unless I can create "pictures" from your words, then understanding comes more slowly than it might to others.)

[Redoverfarm]

 .  It would probably be helpful if you could place in general where your property is located in your profile area.  A lot of the answers to some of your questions can be specific to certain areas.  Since you have some basic guidelines as far as placement of certain utilities just make sure that the house location will work with those.  Ideally the trailer location from what I can see would be the location best suited for your build.  Just something to think about.  Walkout entrances should be on the farthest wall down hill on your house.  This prevents ground water from entering or being a problem with the entrance.  The septic field/tank should also be downhill somewhat from the structure so that gravity will work for you.

[motdaugrnds]

Thank you Redoverfarm. Am going to do that now.

Done!

We need to live in the trailer until the excavation and basement is completed enough to permit us to live there while working on the house; thus, it cannot be moved for awhile. Then we need room to get it out without sending it down the hill to fall over and without taking it over any part of what we are working on. (This is taking some thought!)

The basement and house (as hopefully depicted in the pictures) would sit just about 50-75 ft in front of the trailer; so it is pretty much in the same area, just giving us a larger back yard.

[Redoverfarm]

My biggest concern was the septic tank/field in relation to the house site.  Is it "up hill" from where the basement floor will be.  No you can still exit the wall to keep the elevation higher but would not be able to use it temporarily while building if that was done.  Gravity pitch on septic/waste line I believe can be 1/4" @ ft. so that is correct.  But you have to figure the distance to the tank from the house keeping that same pitch and not going lower than the inlet elevation.  It is costly to have to pump waste up hill to the tank.

[motdaugrnds]

The septic tank/field in relation to the house site is "down hill" as the house will be sitting on top of the knoll which is about 4 ft higher up than the septic tank with the drain field even lower than the tank. The basement will, of course, be lower than the tank; however, it will "not" have a bathroom in it nor any running water. (The water from the well will be running through a sleeve in the basement wall to a pressure tank and a probably the hot water heater as well. Then from there, the piping will go up into the house (bath & kitchen), both of which will be higher than the ST/Field.

What do you mean, "...No you can still exit the wall to keep the elevation higher but would not be able to use it temporarily while building if that was done...."

I have been wondering about the thickness of basement walls and type/placement of roofing that will comply with coding rules. (Understanding Bldg Codes is quite a hassle for me.)

[Redoverfarm]

The septic tank/field in relation to the house site is "down hill" as the house will be sitting on top of the knoll which is about 4 ft higher up than the septic tank with the drain field even lower than the tank. The basement will, of course, be loser than the tank; however, it will "not" have a bathroom in it nor any running water. (The water from the well will be running through a sleeve in the basement wall to a pressure tank and a probably the hot water heater as well. Then from there, the piping will go up into the house (bath & kitchen), both of which will be higher than the ST/Field.

What do you mean, "...No you can still exit the wall to keep the elevation higher but would not be able to use it temporarily while building if that was done...."

If elevation was an issue in getting fall to the septic you could exit the basement wall with the sewer line at any point below your first floor

I have been wondering about the thickness of basement walls and type/placement of roofing that will comply with coding rules. (Understanding Bldg Codes is quite a hassle for me.)

It was my understanding that you would be living inthe basement on a temporary basis while building the remaining portion of the house which would requre a bathroom I would think.

[Don_P]

The temporary living quarters in the basement will not have any facilities... strictly speaking you may not be allowed to occupy them without having a bathroom and kitchen. This needs to be talked through with your building official. From what you are describing the main drain line would exit the basement wall at some level above the basement floor. That is fine, it's what Redover was talking about.

A basement wall is typically built out of 8 or 12" block in that area. It can be poured concrete as well although that is typically more expensive. The wall is built on an excavated trench that has a strip footing of concrete poured in it. The typical footing is 8" thick and 16" wide. This spreads out the weight of the building above on a wider footprint.

It might be the easiest way to pass code will be to set trusses on top of the basement walls or on top of the floor that is on top of the basement. If you nail 1x purlins across them and put gently used old tin on top it would dry you in and pass. The trusses will need to be well tied to the wood below them and it'll probably take a sawzall to cut them loose to reuse above. A 24' wide 4/12 pitch truss is very common and they can be had cheaply sometimes. You can also check with the local truss plant and see what they have on the back lot. They need to be in good condition and you need to keep them in good condition or they will be rejected. There is waste in what you are proposing, wasted effort and wasted materials. It will get you into a bare basement quicker but that needs thinking through. They also make what is called an attic truss that basically has a room within the "attic" of a steep truss. It makes for fast cheap room but that room is about 10' narrower than the basement walls below.

As far as affordable housing I've thought that using Superior walls, precast foundation walls from the plant in Amelia, putting a truss roof on it and pouring a radiant slab would make a nice house.

[Squirl]

I have been wondering about the thickness of basement walls and type/placement of roofing that will comply with coding rules. (Understanding Bldg Codes is quite a hassle for me.)

Masonry (concrete block) basement wall thickness, height, and rebar requirements if any:
http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_4_sec004_par001.htm

Poured concrete basement wall thickness, height and rebar requirements:
http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_4_sec004_par003.htm

Permanent wood foundation requirements:
http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_4_sec004_par037.htm

Rubble Stone Masonry Requirements (aka fieldstone):
http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_4_sec004_par035.htm

Footing requirements:
http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_4_sec003.htm

Septic spacing from houses is a local requirement that I don't know.

[motdaugrnds]

Yes, Redover, I can see how my initial post mislead you. Please let me clarify.

We will be living in the trailer until the basement is weathered down and the bathroom (above basement in house) will be weathered in...probably one bedroom too, though not sure yet. Yes, it will be incovenient; but financially doable.

I will attempt to paint a picture with my words as to what I am invisioning so far: A basement "L" shaped with one side 10' wide and the other 15' wide (The length of both 30 ft.). When pouring the concrete for this basement floor, we would also pour a concrete "slab" for the "other part" of the house..the part that does "not" sit on top of the basement. This part would include one bath and one bedroom with piping already laid in for the grey water drain to the septic tank; and the slab would have the appropriate width/depth lips (foundation for the outside walls & for securing the slab), though I'm not real sure what that depth/width is. (I "think" it is 2 ft depth and 16 inches wide.) This means this initial concrete slab will be only 10 ft wide and 20 ft long "at first", with the remaining 20 ft width and 15 ft length to be poured later. All this time we would be living in the trailer we now exist in; however, when the basement and upstairs bath is weathered in, we hope to sell the trailer, having it moved off the acreage. It is at such time we would be living in the basement with a most inconvenient (yet code approved...I think) bath upstairs where the main living quarters of the "to-be-completed" house will be.

As for a kitchen, we are planning on a wood-burner (heat and cook) in basement. We could not wash dishes in the basement as there would be no running water; however, we could use the sink in the bathroom (upstairs) for that purpose.

No, the main drain line for "grey water" will not exit the basement wall because there would not be any grey water in the basement. The only water exiting the basement would be clean well water going up out of the basement into the house and at that point there will be drainage from bath to ST for grey water that originated up there.

At that time, one could stand at the front gate and see a rock patio where the entrance/exit to basement is, which would be in "front" of the ST/Drain field. The only part of the house that would be seen would be the end of the 1-2 rooms (bath and possibly one bedroom) sitting on top of the knoll and to the "side" (20 or more ft distance) of the ST/Drain field.

I do so hope I've made myself clear; and, yes, I will be talking all this over with our local Bldg Inspector. Seems to me, as long as we have bath/washing facilities that drain appropriately into the ST and as long as we have a "walk-in" entrance/exit to the basement, the location of each would not be problematic and would adhere to coding. (I do know this is not how others build houses; but our finances will not permit us to build the entire frame of the house and the basement at the same time.) After the trailer is sold, we will have enough to add to the concrete slab and complete the house.

Don, thank you so much for the additional information. I didn't even know 12" block existed and do so hope we don't need them as the 8" are heavy enough for me. However, if the 12" is code, they will be used! I suspect we will only being "pouring" concrete slabs (floor of basement as well as floor of house) and footings needed. Ah yes, that is the depth I had read (8" thick x 16" wide footings).

Your talk of trusses (24' wide 4/12 pitch) that might be found cheaply on back lots of those truss plants is something I am not going to toss aside. I really don't want trusses; but it may be that is the best way for us to go.

I'm not understanding how there is "...waste in what you are proposing, wasted effort and wasted materials..." Can you be more specific please?

I never heard of "Superior walls, precast foundation walls"; nor do I know where the city of Amelia, Virginia is. I've never heard of "radiant slab" that can be poured either; so those I will research.

Squirl, those are great urls. Thank you. I'm going over there now to check them out.

Thank you all so much for helping. I know I'm having to do a lot of thinking (and re-thinking); however, I'ld rather do it now in the planning stage than regret not doing all this later on.

[Native_NM]

For a DIY basement, I'd take a hard look at ICF's...they stack easy, and are easier to get level and square, and plumb.  Given your financial position, they also offer the best insulation, and accordingly the best energy efficiency.

If you have a surplus place near you, check them out.  You might be able to salvage enough excess from other projects in the area.  The Habitat for Humanity surplus place is a good start, if you have one near you.

http://www.habitat.org/restores/

http://www.habitat.org/cd/env/restore_detail.aspx?place=46

[Don_P]

If you can draw a sketch of your plan it'll avoid lots of confusion. I don't really understand your foundation yet. It doesn't have to be fancy, doing it in "paint" will work.

I've done ICF's and researched them for other projects. On a budget they just don't stack up. If ease, insulation properties, or lack of confidence in masonry skill is the motivator then they have a place, but it comes at a high price. We also have enough insect trouble that a foam pathway on the exterior does concern me. I've not seen termites in EPS foam, I have had a heck of a carpenter ant colony in it before though.

I agree on keeping an eye on surplus/salvage. I've seen great deals through the habitat store and from craigslist.

The waste I was talking about is related to the way I've seen people cap a basement to live in it and then have to remove that cap to continue with the house later.

Squirl has posted some good sections from the model version of the '09 codebook. Our version, with VA changes, is available here;
http://www.ecodes.biz/ecodes_support/Free_Resources/Virginia2009/09Residential/09Residential_main.html

Start by reviewing chapter 3, Building Planning. In section R306 Sanitation, you'll find the minimum allowable facilities you'll need to get occupancy. You will need a kitchen area with a sink.

While we're talking about sanitation a couple of terms. Black water is the water from a toilet or kitchen sink or dishwasher, gray water is from a tub or shower, lavatory sink, or clothes washer

No, the main drain line for "grey water" will not exit the basement wall because there would not be any grey water in the basement. The only water exiting the basement would be clean well water going up out of the basement into the house and at that point there will be drainage from bath to ST for grey water that originated up there.

That drain line from the upstairs bath and plumbing is what will exit through one of the walls of the basement in order to be on correct slope to the septic tank. A 3" or larger diameter line can slope as little as 1/8" per foot.

At the risk of offending you I'm going to tell you something I think you probably need to hear. I'm a builder and part of what I do is try to make sure that there are sufficient funds to see the client through. It can be really bad to get stuck "in between" and have nowhere to live and no money. You are entering this project depending on money from the sale of the trailer to finish. That is probably not going to happen. The trailer has very little value now and will have much less by the time you've been using it as a construction trailer. What I'm saying is do not count on windfalls. If you have to sell the trailer and the money is insufficient to finish or maintain, you are stuck. You might get lucky and I'd be glad to be wrong. If I'm right can you still find a way to finish? You don't need to answer that, I'm just wanting you to think it through.

[motdaugrnds]

Native_NM, thank you for the links. I will call the Habitat for Humanity surplus place and see if they have some materials useful.

Don_P I will do my best to sketch out the floor plan we are considering. It will, indeed, be simple as I'm not at all familiar with blueprints.

Yes, thank you for making clear what was meant by "waste". I can certainly understand how such a basement top would be wasteful...unless maybe if it is treated plywood with rubber sheating over it that the "house" floor would be built right over without removing it. Such would also make for some warm floors.

Thank you for the link to the Virginia 2009 codes. I will familiarize myself with those as best as possible.

I see no problem with creating a kitchen area with a sink on top floor (not inside basement); then when the kitchen is completed where it is actually wanted, turning that area into part of the bathroom.

[motdaugrnds]

Here is my effort at creating a blueprint of the floor plans we're considering at this early date. Now don't laugh! I know it is quite crude!

[Don_P]

Hmm, That is going to take some pretty involved rooflines to cover the way I'm seeing it. Do you have ideas on how you plan to roof this? Also a 30' wide building is probably getting into more expensive rafter lengths if you aren't using trusses.

The transition from basement to upper slab area will be across the deep fill behind the basement, this will also eat up a fair amount of money. A long narrow basement is going to take more money per useable square foot than a shape that is deeper. You're building alot of wall and yet enclosing little area. For example if the unknown length is 30' there is 80' of perimeter wall enclosing 300 square feet of area. If the same 80' of wall was 20' on a side it would be enclosing 400 sf of area. I'm not suggesting dimensions just showing how that works.

Can the basement slide under the house? Can the width of the house drop to 24' or 28' wide? In dropping the width joists and rafters become smaller, cheaper, and easier to handle.

I've just said a couple of things that might sound contradictory, design is a balancing act that takes several rounds usually and I might be misinterpreting as well... I'll stop here and let you and others weigh in.

[Bob S.]

I think as Poppy pointed out a square building with dimensions that are devisable by 4' is almost always the cheapest per square foot to build.

[motdaugrnds]

Thank you both for helping me. Yes, I can see how the roofing would appear significantly troublesome. However, I think my roofing design has reduced this substantially.

Below is a crude roofing design for both basement/cellar as well as for the "completed" project. Maybe this will explain my idea better.  Also please know, I'm still in the "planning" stage; so all options are available to me. What I am aiming at in general is (1) a basement I can use as both a storm shelter as well as a root cellar and (2) a house that keeps the aesthetics of the entire homestead as balanced as I can.

[MountainDon]

I know it is only a preliminary sketch but the flashing detail on the wall top is not done well. As illustrated, water can enter on the inside of the vertical Leg. Flashing, drip edges and so on should always be designed/installed to lead water to the outside, never to act as a funnel to the inside.

[Don_P]

I think I'm confused, this is the picture in my head 

[Erin]

motdaugrnds,
I know I recommended these over at HT, but I'm going to do so again.  You really need to read some books so you can see pictures of what you're wanting to do, as well as details and requirements. 
I'm thinking you're at the point you don't know what questions to ask, because you don't have enough background knowledge yet...


The Graphic Guide to Frame Construction
Do-It-Yourself Housebuilding: The Complete Handbook by George Nash
Independent Builder: Designing & Building a House Your Own Way by Sam Clark

If nothing else, go to your local library, see if they have any of the above and if not, request them via inter-library loan. 

[motdaugrnds]

MtnDon, you're absolutely correct. That flashing should go between the end of the rafters and the 1x at the end of all those rafters...all covered with the roofing material. In this way the flashing would not act as a funnel to the inside of the basement. Thank you so much for pointing this out. All that will be buried in the ground except for the part of the "L" shaped basement that goes under the front bedroom; and that part will have steps that come up into a closet in that front bedroom area.

Also, Bob S, We are certainly going to rethink dimensions to explore the idea of what it would mean to be able to divide it all by "4". Thank you so much for pointing this out.

Yes, Don_P you are confused. I will make an attempt to use your drawing to convey my ideas. Now don't laugh as I know my perspective is off; however, I do think this may convey my ideas better. The structure (white/grey) is the completed house (no porches) and we will be doing it in segments. The blue dotted lines you see show the first segment, which will include the basement, the front bedroom, the back bedroom, the bath and the small kitchen area, the latter two being in the middle so all the piping can be in one place and well insulated from the weather. The middle section with the "A-fram" roof (probably "attic trusses" used here) will be the next segment of construction; and the carport will follow that. Eventually, we hope to add a front and back porch; but that will be awhile.



Erin, I know I am showing my ignorance in here by not knowing construction terms; however, when David was able to work, he spent years on construction crews building apartment complexes, setting up double-wide trailers and creating basements for ready-made housing. So he is familiar with what I am not. What I am mostly needing in here is "coding" that applies with what we want to construct. David was working "for" an employer who understood coding; so he didn't need to. He just did what he was told. We have only ourselves to tell us what to do now; thus, the need to fully understand the coding that applies so it will pass inspection once the work is done.

[Don_P]

I'm still confused but hopefully we'll get past that. I've attached what I think is phase 1 of your plan. I'm also trying to visualize the orientation on the slope from your photo's earlier. I think it is either this or 90 degrees counterclockwise? I've got the little man standing in the future carport area about where the mobile home is now. The gray block on the ground is the slab for phase 2.



Orientation aside I have a few thoughts from drawing this. The stairs are going to take up pretty much the entire overlap area between basement and upper floor. The basement roof is going to crawl up on the house wall and will present some flashing challanges. With an 8' low wall, the high wall of the upstairs is at about 13' above the floor to give a 4/12 roof pitch, about as shallow as I would want to go. An attic truss in phase 2 really won't do anything, at 15' wide it wont provide a room and it will make the roofline unweildy. Building the center wing (phase2) first would be easier. Laying the side roofs on it would be simpler, you'll need to open this back up to tie in the way you're going.

Personally, and totally unsolicited, I think you'd be further ahead losing the basement and building the upper part of phase1 now, adding a matching roof back down for phase 2 and either a seperate carport or extending it off a gable end.

[Erin]

Erin, I know I am showing my ignorance in here by not knowing construction terms; however, when David was able to work, he spent years on construction crews building apartment complexes, setting up double-wide trailers and creating basements for ready-made housing. So he is familiar with what I am not. What I am mostly needing in here is "coding" that applies with what we want to construct. David was working "for" an employer who understood coding; so he didn't need to. He just did what he was told. We have only ourselves to tell us what to do now; thus, the need to fully understand the coding that applies so it will pass inspection once the work is done.

While it does indeed make it easier for discussions like this if everyone knows the same words, for the most part, terminology is irrelevant. 

My point with suggesting you need to do some reading is that it gives you a MUCH better starting point for picturing how this can all go together.  There are a whole host of systems that need to mesh together in the making of a successful house.