Water System Blow Out Port (winterizing)

[MountainDon]

This is aimed at ScottA, resident plumber extraordinaire,  but anyone can jump in with their $0.02 worth.

Is there an ready-made port to facilitate blowing out a water system with compressed air?

I use one method with the RV, and am contemplating a variety of methods to incorporate into the cabin. Looking for ideas that require a minimum of fuss and bother.

Thanks all.

[ScottA]

Don just use a threaded valve stem and whatever fittings you need to make a pipe connection. I'd install it near the source of the incomming water, underground if possible. Then with your compressor running open each faucet one by one until they are clear of water. You can blow most of the water out of your water heater the same way, by opening the hot side faucets, make sure the power or fuel is off first. A clip on air chuck will make it easier so no one has to hold the air line while it's blowing out.

Don't forget to put anti-freeze in your P-traps and toilets as needed or suck them dry with a shop vac.

[OldDog]

Don,

I plumbed my cabin with low point drains and everything flowing to them.

Just shut down the supply, open the drains, open the fixtures to vent and it's done.

Rv anti freeze the traps and you are good to go.

I threw out the plastic valve on the water heater and replaced it with brass and a thru the floor drain.

[MountainDon]

Thanks guys.

Scott, that's more or less what I thought about the fitting.   DIY   

Regarding the water heater; I have used a nice little bypass accessory on the RV and plan on doing the same on the cabin. It allows the heater to be taken out of the system, bypassed, with a quarter turn on a couple valves. Then the tank is emptied. If short winter time visits are made that allows you to turn on the water without the need for filling the water tank.

OldDog, I've thought of doing the same, but there's this little guy in my head that worries too much. He likes the sound of air coming out of faucets.    I have low point drains in the RV as well and after the first year I've never used them. But then I also have an on board air compressor so that makes it easy. As for the cabin I'll probably leave my smallest air compressor up there anyways. 

[OldDog]

Don,

I am the same way with my rv.

That tubing doesn't run straight.  Lots of low spots.

It's just a short routine, probably takes 10 minutes with the rv.  Blow out the water, blow in some anti freeze for the low spots.

Bruce

[MountainDon]

I'm going to try and run the supply lines all in a downward, back from the fixture manner, but I'm not sure how that's going to work out. I think the final decision will appear as the work progresses. It will also be easy to leave a fitting tee'd in at the water source for an air fitting.

I was thinking of putting a compressor air fitting then a ball valve to isolate that from the water system. That would be easy to hookup the compressor to. 

[NM_Shooter]

Hi Don, if you are going with pex, don't sweat the local minimums in your tubing runs.  If they collect water and freeze, no problem. I think the joints are sensitive as is (of course) the pvc traps.  Get the water out of the metal and hard plastic and you will be great! 

Blowing out the lines is additional insurance, to satisfy the little guy in your head.

-f-

[BassLakeBuda]

This is a great post.

Currently my well at my cabin is connected with a garden hose. I am planning to install a permanent water connection buried below the frost line next spring. What are some suggestions for a below ground valve/drain that can be opened from above ground to allow the cabin to drain back to below the frost line for winterizing?

My city house is connected to the municipal water system with a valve below ground in the front yard that requires a special long handled wrench to shut off. This is what I have in mind for the cabin except that I would like the line to drain back to this point. Can I buy this kind of below ground valve from a plumbing supplier? Can these be set up to drain back?

I also plan to install air valves in the system to allow blow out of the above ground lines as mentioned in other posts.

For my traps I have installed the kind with a threaded plug that can be removed to drain it. I suppose not having liquid in the trap is a hazard as there is nothing to hold the sewer gases back, so I guess I better go with the RV antifreeze too.

Any other ideas for planning the cabin system for easy winterizing would be great!

[MountainDon]

PeterNap tried something interesting with the drain traps. He installed a solenoid operated sprinkler valve in that cleanout fitting. Activating the sprinkler via a timer contriolled switch drains them all at once.

I'm not sure if this was on a septic or a grey water system. I can see it being fine on grey water (no smelly septic tank or sewer system hookup)

He's never said how it works or doesn't but the theory is sound I believe.

[Redoverfarm]

BassLakeBuda If you have a check valve installed in your well line then the water will not drain back.  Yes you can shut off the water at any point below the ground but the water remaining from that shut off valve to the house will remain.  The only way is to install a drain line between your shut off valve and the house.  At the dump end of that drain line install a valve which will remain closed while in use.  As soon as you terminate the water to the house via the underground shut off valve then open the additional line to allow the water trapped to escape to a level below the house and the freeze line. Just don't forget to turn it off before engergizing the system again on your return.  Does this make sense?

I guess you could also install an air injection port somewhere between the underground shut off and the house which would allow you to blow the water toward the house.  At the house have an additional valve a relief that would not permit it to re-enter the system and be blown out  to remove the water as well.

As far a the type of valve for your shut off.  They probably make a valve to use for this application.  If not a standard valve in a water line will work.  Just use a piece of pipe (CPVC or other)larger than the valve knob to reach the valve from the surface.  Then have someone to make up a piece of smaller diameter pipe metal(1/2-3/4") and weld a couple fingers onto the sides which will insert into a standard valve handle. On the other end use a "t" to fashion a handle.  Cover the pipe with a cap when not in use.

[ScottA]

What you are looking for is called a stop & waste valve. They have long handle that goes up to the surface and opens a drain port underground when closed. FYI these are now illegal and may be hard to find in a city. A country plumbing or hardware may still have some for sale. Any opening in a potable waterline underground is illegal.

[TheWire]

There is a fitting that allows you to install a small plastic or copper tube back down your supply line from your well.  It has a tire type air fitting allowing you to inject air through the tube to blow the water out of the line.

[BassLakeBuda]

Thanks for the suggestions and heads up on what is acceptable. Sorry for the delayed reponse, was out of town for a bit. My frost proof spigot at the well has a small airline with tire valve, I will check out what it does when I get up there in November.

[glenn kangiser]

I would assume the tire valve has no spring on the back and is an air bleed valve to allow the water in the pipe to suck air and drain down but when under pressure it closes so as not to leak.  It is a common system in the older pump systems before bladder tanks.

[MountainDon]

My solution... a modified RV blow out plug.   Ths was used to pressure test a portion of my water supply system. I'll show how I will hook it up as a blow out later when I get to that part.



The RV plugs come with a molded stem. I had an old one with a worn tip. I drilled it out just enough to accept a forced into place tire valve stem.    It has 3/4" male garden hose threads, so I used a 1/2" MPT to 3/4" female hose thread adapter.

The portion of the plumbing tested held 90 pounds of air overnight!   

[ScottA]

Nice work Don. I couldn't have done better myself.