Author Topic: Building Wealth & Assets  (Read 5343 times)

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Offline Virginia Gent

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Building Wealth & Assets
« on: August 30, 2009, 01:01:34 PM »
So I have decided to become independantly wealthy and want to know if anyone here actively deals with Passive and Portfolio Income sources and would be willing to spare some knowledge. You can only learn so much from books afterall  :D
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
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Offline peternap

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2009, 01:55:06 PM »
I understand Pot is doing well [scared]
These here is God's finest scupturings! And there ain't no laws for the brave ones! And there ain't no asylums for the crazy ones! And there ain't no churches, except for this right here!

Offline ScottA

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2009, 05:07:33 PM »
Quote
I understand Pot is doing well

 ???

I'd stay away from the markets. They are rigged and unless you are very lucky you'll get robbed. Best bet is to focus on your housing first. Get that paid for completly. After that I'd recommend small scale real estate development but it's tricky and you need to know what you're doing. Maybe not the answers you're looking for. Sorry.

Offline peternap

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 05:33:47 PM »
I guess you deserved a better answer than that Gent, I just don't have one to give you. I'm still making money in the market. Not nearly as much as I was, but enough. There still isn't any real reasoning behind most of the swings and there hasn;t been for a while. I have no idea what the good long term bets may be if indeed there are any.

The market does have a rhythm. It's not based on any kind of fundamentals and if you follow professional advice, your gonna lose your ......

It's like riding a bike on rocky ground. You just develop a feel for how to react...but you can't predict when you will have to.
As dull as it sounds, I have to agree with Scott. Get the obvious things out of the way, house, pay off credit cards, etc....then watch. Even if the market stabilizes for now, the economy is far from good and my guess is, gonna get a lot worse without much notice.

Sorry I can't help more.
These here is God's finest scupturings! And there ain't no laws for the brave ones! And there ain't no asylums for the crazy ones! And there ain't no churches, except for this right here!

Offline rick91351

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 05:39:15 PM »
I like Dave Ramsey's approach.  He is not the risk taker you might want but in the long run....
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline rwanders

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2009, 06:35:40 PM »
 ???  If there is any "secret knowledge", it is well hidden-----ditto on previous advice, hard work and, above all, financial discipline about savings and debt management are the only "secrets" I have found in the last 67 years. Nothing is guaranteed including real estate unless you want to include the 3x6 lot for an eventual dirt nap.
Rwanders lived in Southcentral Alaska since 1967
Now lives in St Augustine, Florida

Offline muldoon

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 07:03:03 AM »
I congratulate you on your decision to become wealthy.  However, it may not be as easy as it sounds.

The market is very irrational right now, and the current action is more related to the us dollar devaluation than anything else.  The volume of trades - especially that they are concentrated in just a few areas, coupled with the inflow vs. outflow tell me the tide is changing. 

I think you will find that it is better to invest in yourself than this market right now, that means as noted above - reduce debt, increase your assets productive ability.  Efficiency, security and knowledge are good places to invest in right now in my opinion. 

I am up for the year in trades, but currently sitting on a small loss that I stubbornly refuse to exit.  I did much better last year.  If you are not familiar with the market I would not pick this as the time to get in, you can get whipsawed and crushed in nothing.  There is no technical analysys that describes our current moves, no fundamental analysis explains it, it is casino gaming.  Only we have rampant fraud and lying with it.  There is no sane reason to "invest" here, although there are plenty of reasons to trade it.  But be clear what it is, gambling. 


Offline waggin

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 08:59:05 AM »
As Louis Pasteur said, "Luck favors the prepared." 

Like Muldoon said, investing in yourself is the most valuable thing you can do.  In addition to that, really think hard as to what being "wealthy" really means to you.  Security is a word with a lot of different connotations, all important.  Seriously. 

Investment in yourself can open up a lot of opportunities to build whatever wealth you want down the road.  Myself, I sell real estate part time.  This fall I'm hoping to take a week-long timber framing class and a semester-long welding class.  I'm not planning on either as a career, but who knows what doors may open as I proceed?  My confidence in and view of financial markets is evolving daily, and I'm eyeing them with a lot more skepticism.  This shapes my view that tangible things and skills to build and work on "things" will be far more important going forward.  Without straying too much from the original topic (bear with me), with the emphasis on offshoring most of our manufacturing and transitioning to a financial services economy, very few people are pursuing educations in value-added fields.  Opportunities abound there for investment, business opportunities, and possible careers.  That may be less passive/portfolio than you wanted, but it's something to think about.

As far as learning about investment opportunities, start with something you know and are curious about/interested in, then read & research.  Seek out contrarian advice too; it may change your opinions, or not, but you'll learn from it regardless.  If you invest in markets, be willing to be unemotional.  Very few people have the luxury of watching all of their investments go up all of the time.  Too many people react emotionally to information, when they should be thinking critically instead.  Those people always lose money. 

Sorry this is vague and maybe not the direction you wanted to go, but there is not a magic, easy answer, that is unless you have political connections.  Let's leave that to a different thread though.   d*
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy. (Red Green)

Offline poppy

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2009, 07:02:24 AM »
I don't know a lot, but have learned a couple of things in my 63 years.

According to your profile you're 26, so that's a good place to start.  It's much easier for you to get "wealthy" then for someone like me.

1.  If you're in debt, get out of debt.

2.  Don't get into debt again.

3.  Define what being independently wealthy means for you.  Being independent and being wealthy may be two different answers.

You might want to figure out No. 3 before you start on the rest.

My dad's philosophy was to not work for someone else and run a business that has residual income (similar to passive investment).  It took him about 30 years, but he made it to what he considered to be independently wealthy by following the above, with basically no investing other than property.

He did this with a wife and 4 kids.  We all went to college and he lent us money that we all paid back.

Most don't have the patience (I didn't) to follow this kind of plan.

Sorry I can't be of more help.




Offline Virginia Gent

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2009, 11:42:35 AM »
I wanna thank everyone for all your advice thusfar. It has been taken into account. Much to the chagrin of those who advised to sit and wait it out I shall continue to educate myself on all types of investment and assets to invest in; one thing I realized is that you can't  be afraid of loosing money. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna drop all my savings or anything close into any investment strategy I come up with, and I think I've found one. Nor am I gonna "Pay myself first" to such a degree that I can't pay off what little debt I have. Which y'all will be glad to know that my debt consists of, about, $5k left on my car and, again about, $650 left for the engagement ring I bought my fiancee, which she said yes by the way. But I do have money stashed away (not much about $700) that I am willing to gamble, in an educated manner, on investing. Which brings me to my plan, thus far. If any of you know anything about Tax Lien Certificates, please let me know. I know basics about these but not a whole lot more. I plan to sit in on an Auction first, before jumping in, and seeing and learning how the process is done. I plan methodically, sometimes too much according to friends and family, so I don't want anyone worrying I'm rushing anything. So for Waggin & Muldoon, don't worry as I am, indeed, investing in myself and my Financial I.Q., among other things.

Poppy, independently wealthy, to me, is having enough passive/portfolio/both income to sustain me should I lose my job. Now considering I live a very minimal lifestyle and have always lived within my means, I don't need to be making a lot off of any assets I acquire for me to consider myself independently wealthy. However I would like to make enough extra to stash away in an IRA or two and maybe put into a Mutual Fund as well.

Rick91351, where can I learn more about Dave Ramsey. A lot of people have been talking about him. Does he have a book or anything I could buy?

Peternap, don't worry about it. I have a good sense of humor so no offense was had =D
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
~Thomas Jefferson~

Offline kenhill

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2009, 12:25:17 PM »
True happiness comes in service to others.  One of the most rewarding things for me is to volunteer for Boy Scouts.  It warms me to no end to see 12 year old boys grow into capability young men of strong character.  And it melts me when they take the time to say thank you, that they can not imagine what their life would have been like with out Scouting's adventures.

Save money up before making the big purchases.  If you can pay off a car loan in 5 years, you can save up the money to buy it with cash in 3 years.

Offline peternap

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2009, 03:22:58 PM »
Well. your thinking anyway Gent. That's 95% of it. You won't be able to do much with $700.00 in the market. It takes 750.00 to get a Scottrade account I think. When I buy stock, I do it in thousand share lots. That way you actually make a little monet if it goes up a few cents.

There are other investments and IMHO much safer.
Look at what people that have money to spend and are willing to spend it on, and get what they're looking for. Stay away from hard gold or silver unless you have a way to sell it. The bottom feeders are everywhere.

It seems beneath many people, but aluminum recycling is a pretty good additional resource if you play it right. Lead is going to be a big money maker soon. Something that was free a year ago and now being phased out by tire shops and Xray clinics.

Just look around. Soon you'll have enough in the kitty to invest in a tax deferred or exempt bond...although, you need to be careful there too.

We are in very turbulent times.
These here is God's finest scupturings! And there ain't no laws for the brave ones! And there ain't no asylums for the crazy ones! And there ain't no churches, except for this right here!

Offline rick91351

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2009, 03:57:55 PM »
Hey Virginia Gent, Dave Ramsey is on the radio and has a looks like a new web site at http://beta.daveramsey.com/.

PM me if you need to know more.  He change our finical life around.

rlr
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline Sassy

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2009, 08:51:46 AM »
I've heard Dave Ramsey on the radio & also have one of his books - he has some very sound advice.

Here's a link to Investopdia - lots of info there.   http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/arbitrage.asp

The word  "arbitrage" would be worth investigating.  Read about Michael Milken - the huge investment companies & the buying & selling of big businesses...  interesting reading...  in my own opinion, it is all rigged by the big guys with insider knowledge.  Sure, you can make some money in the markets like Peternap or Muldoon who study this all the time but you have to be on it constantly - "know when to hold, know when to fold..."  

Anyway, that's my 2 cents & that's not worth much anymore   d*
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Offline waggin

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2009, 01:29:49 PM »
Rather than buying tax lien certificates, I'd say you'd be better served by starting a company that for a fee provides information to people hoping to make money by buying tax lien certificates.  Take a peek at what Wikipedia says about tax liens:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_lien_sale

Lots of potential pitfalls listed there, and I can add several more.  I've listed a lot of REO (Real Estate Owned) property for lenders that have foreclosed, so I can give you a little info based on that, plus general info I've learned along the way.  You would basically be buying bad debt.  People and municipalities sell bad debt for a reason.  Sure there's a lien, but collecting on it might be a long-term prospect, and may never happen.  In the mean time, you can't redeem these.  Once a municipality sells its bad debt to you, it has no incentive to foreclose on the property.  I have done a lot of property valuations for lenders pre and post forclosure (by lender) and have seen years of back taxes accumulate unpaid.  You wouldn't get paid until the property is sold one way or another, including foreclosure.  Bankruptcy can hold things up further, and may reduce or eliminate your entire investment.  Yes, you can foreclose too, but you'll need some deep pockets to do that.  Even with that, you'd want to fully research in advance which liens are senior vs. which ones are junior.  That will vary with location.  Are you ready to evict someone that doesn't leave even after the foreclosure?  Happens all the time.  I lieu of that, how much money are you willing to offer them to leave without an eviction?  Odds of your getting the property are just about nil, but I wanted to throw that information out there to show that if you're thinking of trying to go that route, it's not a simple process.  Most of the time, there is a loan, and the lender will foreclose.  That can take well over a year; trust me, I've been involved in those.  However, even after all that time, the issue of bankruptcy may have wiped out your hoped for payoff.  How much pre-inspection of the property and its financials are you going to do before buying a certificate on a particular property?  If none is your answer, how will you feel when you find out later that it's a worthless former meth-lab that nobody wants?  Do you have access to someone at a title company that can run title searches for you?  With $700 to play with, I'm guessing you weren't counting on doing any research before buying a certificate.  Even just planning on, driving to, showing up at a sale & bidding, handling paperwork, etc. will take hours.  Now, a $700 lien would net you around $70 per year at 10% simple interest (hypothetical rate of return.)  What's your time worth even if this was a no-risk scenario?  Which it isn't.  Doesn't sound even remotely worth it to me.

Depending on the interest rate you're paying on the car loan & engagement ring (congratulations btw) loan, the best investment might be to consider paying those off first.  Paying off debt is a guaranteed, tax-free, rate of return equal to the interest rate you're paying on that debt.  This is assuming you have several months of living expenses put aside already.  Otherwise, I'd call that $700 mattress money for an emergency.
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy. (Red Green)

Offline Virginia Gent

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2009, 06:42:59 PM »
Well It's my understanding that the county (Sheriff/local police force) does the evicting, just like with a mortgage foreclosure. But that is just what I have read and heard "on the street" as it were. Also, I was aware of all the risks you just advised me of before hand. I'm also aware that State & Federal Liens (to name a few) have priority over County Liens and that, depending on the county, may require you to pay those, or to pay any additional County Liens on the property in order to even stay in the position to collect. I'm also aware that there are other risks I may not be aware of. That was why I said I planned on going to a Auction, among other things, and seeing the process in action and even picking the brain of the County Clerk, and/or maybe those in attendance, to learn the rules used by each county, as each county runs theirs slightly different, and to learn of any other risks I may not know of.

I reiterated many times that I do, indeed, plan to do my homework on the subject, so I take offense to your assumption that I plan to act like a pinhead or child and just jump into something without having as many facts on this subject as possible. For your information, I wasn't planning on dropping a cent of any money I manage to save (this goes for ANY investment) for, at least a year. During that time I plan to look into this subject, and others, with detailed attention and fervor. After all, it was you who advised to look into something I was interested in and invest my time and money into that. As a member of this board, it should be obvious that most, myself included, are interested in property/real estate/construction/etc. Tax Liens/Deeds struck me as interesting as I have never heard of them before. EDIT: By the way, in my research I learned Virginia isn't even a Tax Lien State, it's a Tax Deed State, which plays by a whole other set of rules and changes the game completely. See ... the research I've done this last week or so has paid off already.

I apologize if I sounded rude, but you did ruffle my feathers a bit with your one statement, and the tone of the last end of your paragraph, "I'm guessing you weren't counting on doing any research before buying a certificate." I thank you for all your advice, especially the business idea, as it is well received and appreciated. However, I asked for advice and constructive criticism; I don't believe that sentence, and it's surrounding tone, falls under either though and you could have done without it.
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
~Thomas Jefferson~

Offline muldoon

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2009, 12:28:06 AM »
Virginia Gent, dont take this the wrong way, but it sound like you already have it figured out.  No need to ask advice when you already have all the answers. 

I can understand something rubbing you the wrong way, but the truth is - waggin gave you good advice.  If your a few thousand in debt, and have 700 you wish to invest you might want to stop and reconsider your priorities.  700 is less than a months expenses for almost any family I can think of, and I noticed you did not mention any savings in your situation description.  Have you considered that you could get sick or get fired and need that money in an immediate sense?  If you feel secure in your job and health, still paying off debt is guaranteed return because it removes the negative number from your net worth and increases the assets column.  You yourself labeled this thread assets and wealth, surely you see the distinction between an asset (something you own) and a liability (something you pay). 

Take a good look at the broad market right now, there are no risk free moves.  Not stocks, not bonds, not munis, nothing.  Why on earth would treasuries still be selling at their yield if the bond market did not price in large deflation.  There is no free lunch. 

You mention tax leins, but their are still risks associated.  for what a 8% return year over year.  maybe 10%.  You want to tie up all of your savings for 12 months in hopes of gaining $70 bucks?  Thats 10% - thats your big payout in that investment. 

I dont get it, but it sounds like you do.  Good luck, I hope you do well.  I also hope you dont take offense to this post as that is not the intent.  My last piece of advice to pass on:

1) There is no such thing as a get rich quick scheme. 
2) There are people who would kill for a 10% return on capital right now.  ...and cannot find it. 

Take that for what you will. 

Offline waggin

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2009, 10:33:23 AM »
Virginia Gent,

You asked for advice/opinion.  I provided advice and opinion unemotionally, non-judgementally, and in the spirit of helpfulness and paying it forward.  None of what I wrote was condescending.  I wrote directly and analytically, questioning not you, but the process.  I assumed nothing about you or your intelligence or what you know or don't know.  I implied nothing about how I thought you might act.  When I stepped outside of the tax lien area into the concept of an emergency fund, it was very gently, I think tactfully, and definitely well-meaning.  The one piece of sarcasm/joking was in my first sentence, and that was poking fun at how when I plugged "tax lien certificate" into a search engine, the results were all infomercial-sounding companies promising easy riches.  Oddly enough, you didn't take exception to that, but you did take great offense to PART of one of my sentences buried in the middle of a LONG string of sentences that were trying to encourage you to really think through the concept of Return On Investment.  The sentence directly after that "offensive" one shows the estimated time components, even without research, and the following one shows the math for the expected rate of return based on the numbers you provided.  There was no "tone" there whatsoever, just straight examples of how you would have to spend a lot of time and potentially money to get a small return, even without doing research that would likely require outside help.  For this, I get accused of all sorts of implications and assumptions about you, none of which are true.  Now why would I spend a significant amount of my time writing a reply to you to belittle you?  Why at the end, would I congratulate you on your engagement?  I belong to this forum to exchange information, learn, and enjoy the cameraderie.  If I'd thought you were a "pinhead or child" and would "jump into something without having as many facts on this subject as possible." then I would have simply left you to your own devices.  You spent a lot of time in your last post telling me that you were already aware of things and, "I reiterated many times that I do, indeed, plan to do my homework on the subject..." when in my last post I was providing new information not already discussed.  Not once did I reiterate the phrase, "do your homework", but I provided specific things to think of.  Nowhere did I tell you you were wrong.  Other people encouraged you to look elsewhere due to the risks, but for writing in depth about some of the ramifications I'm aware of, I get accused of all sorts of things.  In building related posts, I have had people tell me how to approach something when I asked, and if it's not what I thought, it didn't bother me.  If someone encourages me to think beyond what I know or assumed before, I thank them.  If I don't agree with someone, I ask for clarification or continue the discussion in a civil manner, always with respect for the other person.  Bottome line: you shouldn't ask for advice if you don't want it or are only seeking affirmation.  And if you genuinely want advice, then don't attack those who respond sincerely to your request for advice.

Eviction:  I have managed one at the house, and I hope I never have to do another one...for many reasons.  My word choice in saying "you" are doing the eviction is deliberate.  The sherriff's deputy knocks on the door, serves the eviction papers, and escorts the former occupants off the property if needed.  They're also likely the first person to take a bullet if the disgruntled occupant is so inclined.  That's only part of the process though.  You have several legal obligations (before & after) that may include securing & posting the property immediately, having a crew, truck, and packing supplies, and maybe even a storage unit for the occupants' posessions if you're not allowed to just leave them on the front lawn.  I have done one and know firsthand that you are the one responsible for the process; law enforecement is only a part, as critical as it may be.

Admittedly, this response is more to the forum as a whole, something I'm realizing as I finish this up.  I feel I was accused of something falsely, and I want to make sure everyone knows the intent of my posts on this thread and how I see contributing to the site as a whole in spirit, knowlege, curiosity, and hopefully growth.
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy. (Red Green)

Offline Virginia Gent

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Re: Building Wealth & Assets
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2009, 11:19:50 AM »
Well I think, perhaps, we both misunderstood eachother as my post wasn't meant to attack your whole post and it's good advice, it was more that one sentence. Or maybe it was just me who misunderstood. I won't lie that that one setence rubbed me the wrong way and reading it still does; is it just me who sees it in a belittling tone? Either way, after reading it, maybe I saw what I wanted too, in reference to "tone" in the surrounding sentences. I'm still young, afterall, and haven't beaten all of my youthful transgretions (did I use that correctly?) out of myself. I'm not so full of myself that I can't admit when I made a mistake and apologize for making an ass outta myself. And it would appear I did.

Also, I thought I approached the whole situation politely, and in a civil manner. I also thought I showed you resepct; no where did I name call or anything of the sort. You can't really raise your voice or scream on a message board, but I don't feel my post did that anywhere. Well, except when I called myself a pinhead/child for purpose of the supposed assumption (double negative?). I also thanked you for your advice, especially the business idea. Which, by the way, seems like a really good idea and I have been stewing over it all night. I should have looked for clarification instead of assuming that one sentence was mean-spirited. I've been a member of far too many message boards where other members jump on the "newer" guys, especially those who are younger. So again, I apologize Waggin. I like being a semi-productive (I haven't, obviously, built a house yet so I can't give a whole lot of advice) member of this board and I don't wish to make myself the blacksheep over a miscomunication.

And just for clarification, I wasn't seeking affirmation in my choice, which as I had mentioned has changed some based on what I have discovered. Though I can see why it would seem that way. I really have taken everyone's advice to heart, especially the get outta debt first advice. And you're right Muldoon, my mind was made up, and still is I suppose, however I'm not adverse to making a detour, or five, before getting to where, or in this case what, I wanna do. I might put off plans, but when I see something I really want I work for it no matter what.

So lemme finish by apologizing to everyone. I don't want y'all to think I'm gonna jump on you should you give me advice, on anything. I'm also dropping the subject, but not before I give everyone a chance for the last word.
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
~Thomas Jefferson~

 

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