Couple of Beam Questions...

[Beavers]

So, I'm building a laminated PT 6"x12"x28' beam according to John's plans.


I can't find any ZMAX 60d nails, are "regular" galvanized OK?

Is any kind of construction adhesive OK, or do I need something special for use with PT wood?

I figure the beam should weigh close to 700lbs.  Is it OK to lift it with a single strap placed at the mid-point?  Will that stress the beam too much?

What's the name of the stuff that you are supposed to "paint" on the end of PT wood after you cut it?  Should I be able find it a most lumber yards?

Thanks,
Beavers

[MountainDon]

nails:  Hot-dip galvanized or stainless steel fasteners are approved

glue/adhesive:  be sure the product's label reads "for use with treated lumber." is all the southern pine website says. I would think the polyurethanes like Gorilla Glue might be suitable, since they like/need moisture to cure and most of the PT I've bought has been very wet. The end result is waterproof; the glue not the wood.

Because of the weight I built my beams (not PT) in place, right on the top of the support piers. It was very easy that way. I would think at least a two point sling would be needed to move them.

HD carries it in their paint department. One's a Begr product and the other I forget and the jugs buried someplace.

[Beavers]

Thanks for the info Don.

Never thought of trying to build the beam in place.  Might be easier than trying to hoist it into place.

[dogneck]

I built a 12' and it was too heavy for one person to lift.  I used car-jacks and cribbing.   When I built a 24' laminated, I built it -
one layer of board and the plywood spacer.  Lifted into place, then did then built the other layers in place. 
Make sure you stabilize the whole thing with board to ground temporary supports.

[Beavers]

Thanks dogneck.

I've got a tractor with a loader to lift the beam.  I'm just worried that I would put too much stress on it lifting only in one spot.  My neighbor has a bobcat, maybe if I had the tractor on one end and the bobcat on the other it would spread out the stress a little. 

I don't even have my piers built yet, so I've got some time to try to figure out the best way to do this yet. 

[MountainDon]

When I built mine on site I forgot to take pictures. So here's a verbal picture. I had leveled the tops of all the piers. I used assorted 3/4" plywood cut offs I had saved and screwed them on to the side on the piers. Each one was large enough to stick up above the pier top by the approximate depth of the beam 2X and down the post far enough to make a secure connection. Let's call that piece of plywood a bracket.

I placed the first 2X on top of the piers and snugged it up against the plywood bracket. A screw driven through helped hold it in place. My level confirmed it was sitting plumb. Then I added the next length of 2X until I had the first beam layer in place from one end to the other, I then proceeded to the next layer until the beam was completed.

The 2X needed to be trimmed off at the ends because of the spacing I used. When assembling the beams I left the excess hang over the ends and trimmed them off after the 2X's were all secured to each other. I cut all my 2X's so their ends butted together over the center of each post. Because of that and the fact that I was building then where they were going to stay I didn't bother with the glue at all.

[Beavers]

Don,

Did you use an air nailer?  I'll be driving my nails be hand, not sure if I can keep everything lined up good while I pound away at the 60d's.  Also using concrete piers, so I can't really add much in the way of temporary bracing.

[MountainDon]

If you are using concrete piers use clamps to hold in place of the temp screws. I have a small collection of Bessey bar clamps that are invaluable for this type of thing. There are likely other brands; these are about the best, IMO.

Then you can use clamps to hold the first layers on the sandwich together and use the air nailer to secure everything. Just enough nails to hold things. Then go back and hand nail the hot dipped nails. Go on to the next layer. Pay attention to keep things plumb; that is keep the vartical face of the built up beam plumb.

[DirtyLittleSecret]

Just curious, but what is the preferred way to attach beams to Simpson ties?
Good thread.

[MountainDon]

Each Simpson product has specific recommendations for the size and number of fasteners. Some products offer a choice, a minimum size and a maximum size nail. For some applications like hurricane ties those special short 8D or 10D nails are specified. (sometimes called joist nails)

Simpson has complete info online at...

http://www.strongtie.com/products/alpha_list.html?source=topnav

That is the alphabetical list. That page also has a link to the list by "category"...

http://www.strongtie.com/products/category_list.html?source=topnav#woodwood

FYI, many products that have both nail holes and bolt holes call for the use of one or the other, but not both. Check specs before using.

The Tee straps I used for my post to beam connections could be fastened with 8 - 16D nails or three 3/8" diamater bolts. I used the nails.

[Beavers]

Just got back from Menards, got all my nails and adhesive for the beam.  I also got a gallon of No. 10 Green Preservative made by Cuprinol.  Not sure if it's the right stuff but it looks like it should work.

Found out all the connectors were on sale for 15% off.  Went ahead and got all my brackets for the pier to beam connection.  I figured on using four per pier.  I don't think this application is exactly what they were designed for, anyone see any reason they wouldn't work? 

I got the TDL5-TZ
http://www.uspconnectors.com/pdf-full-line-2007/53,210.pdf

[dogneck]

They have simpson connectors that you designed for what you need.   Put "dogneck" into the search engine,  you will see some links where the experts here pointed me in the right direction.   They have photos of the connectors. 
Also note if you get them.   When you glue up the beam with the layers of plywood spacers and boards, it will come up about 1/4" thicker than the simpson will hold. You cannot really bend them out. But you can shave off a little so they fit.  If you have a lot of nails right at those pier locations on the beam, then you have a problem.    If you have the tractors to lift the beam,  then it is a whole lot easier to build the beam on the ground.  Remember that when building the beam the boards are staggered (no ends of the boards all meeting at one location) so it should not break when lifted.

[MountainDon]

Beavers, how wide are the beams? The actual measured width. And what size are the piers?

[Beavers]

The beams should be 6" (4 2x12's) I planned on measuring after I laminate them to get the true width.

The piers are 12" diameter concrete.

The only Simpson connectors that I could for concrete to beam, were like $80 a piece.   
If the angle brackets with J-bolts will work it will only cost me about $15 a pier.
I look up the old post's that you are talking about dogneck.  Thanks

[John Raabe]

If I understand right you are using 4 of the TDL5's with bolts into the posts. (Can you fit 4 bolts into the 6x6?) This will provide plenty of uplift protection especially when bolted to a 12" diameter pier. You can use two if or when the beam sits on the pier.

Put a square of asphalt roofing shingle or heavy felt down as a moisture break between the concrete and the wood.

[MountainDon]

Those 4 layer beams should come out pretty much right on the money at 6" true. That's what mine were; they matched the size of my 6x6 rough cut piers right on.

How do you envision connecting those TDL5-TZ to the concrete? And will they be placed under the beam, or beside the beam with the short leg on the top of the concrete pier?

[Beavers]

Here's a quick sketch of what I was thinking.

Four brackets total per pier, two on each side of the beam.  I really doubt my ability to be able to drill a straight hole through the beam so, instead of bolts I was thinking one lag screw per bracket into the beam.

Thanks again for all the help guys! 

[PEG688]

I really doubt my ability to be able to drill a straight hole through the beam so, instead of bolts I was thinking one lag screw per bracket into the beam.

Drill the thru holes from each side you can wallow  ( roll the bit around in the hole ) the bit some if you  miss a little to tie the two holes into one hole.

[MountainDon]

That looks good. You can get everything positioned and start the beam holes through the strap holes. Then remove the straps and using a 5/8" bit drill an oversize hole srom each side doing your best to keep it square. I've did it that way on a deck I built back home. Or if you don't have a 5/8" bit leave the straps bolted to the concrete and wobble the drill like PEG suggested. That'll use the metal to anchor the outside portion of the hole in the right place as you wobble the drill. Much stronger than lag screws that's for certain.

[Beavers]

Thanks guys.

I'll try practicing on some scrap pieces first.  Just really hate the thought of screwing up my $400 beams. 

Maybe I can make some kind of jig to keep the drill square?

[cordwood]

A square layed on top of your beam can help you keep your drill straight with the beam. I like to mark my holes then take the beam out and drill straight down, Nothing like having a big ole "HoleHawg" beat you up first thing in the morn.

[MountainDon]

For drilling holes lie that in wood I also prefer to use screw tipped auger bits. They self feed so you can concentrate more on keeping things straight.

[firefox]

What I do is get a short piece of 4x4 and using a drill press drill a hole through it the same diameter as the holes I want to drill in the beams.
Carefully mark a cross hairs on the top, and then extend the lines down the sides making sure that they are square. You can check this by drawing a cross hairs on the bottom and see that they meet up with the side lines.

Then draw a cross hairs on the target material long enough so that when you put the block over it you will still see the lines. Now mate them to the lines on the block and clamp the block in place. I use welding clamps that slide open easily and then have a cam arangement on the top where the jaws are. Makes it real fast to lock in place and has a good zero to 18 inch jaw opening.

If you use soft wood, you need to be carefull not to enlarge the hole
but it should last you this project.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

[Beavers]

As usual, great tips!

House building would be a whole lot tougher, and more nerve racking, without a place like this to get help from! 
Thanks guys.

[glenn kangiser]

I really doubt my ability to be able to drill a straight hole through the beam so, instead of bolts I was thinking one lag screw per bracket into the beam.

Drill the thru holes from each side you can wallow  ( roll the bit around in the hole ) the bit some if you  miss a little to tie the two holes into one hole.

I was going to say this but of course - PEG said it first.  I can add that you can put one end of  the bolt on a block and whack it in the center with a 4 lb sledge to bend it and get that perfect fit through that slightly crooked hole.  I've done tons of them.