About building in Hawaii

[maggiethecat]

I'm going to post here a few things I learned about building in Hawaii. I'm not actually there yet but I thought I'd share this for those who dream of building a home in paradise.

It all starts with choosing the land. There are many places in the Big Island where land is as cheap as $9000 for a 8040 sqf lot. The land is in different subdivisions. The one we chose is called Nanawale estates. The parcels in that subdivision are mostly 8040 sqf. There are other places, such as Eden Rock, where the lots sound a lot bigger than they are. In Eden Rock a lot is about 1 acre but it's a LONG lot, usually 70 feet wide!

The terrain in Puna (the southeast area of the Big Island) is entirely volcanic. To build a house you have to have the land "grubbed and ripped". You need to hire someone with a bulldozer to remove all the vegetation and to rip the ground. Then they have to grade it all...After that you get gravel poured in for the driveway.

At this point you really need to watch yourself. Cesspools are only allowed in the 1 acre lots so in other lots you need septic. The good thing is that the terrain provides a very good natural leach field..the bad thing is that you need your septic to be $tamped by by an authori$ed contractor...

If you are lucky can get the dozer to dig the septic for you because then you don't need to get another dozer out there to do the septic. The dozer for grubbing and ripping will cost an average of $600 an hour. It takes about one work day to grub and rip.

I was told that the septic will cost about $3800! There's gotta be a way around this...

I'm afraid of power failure right now so I better post and edit.

Ok, so the grueling process of obtaining a permit begins at some point in this mess.

I'm supposed to take John's house plans to a Hawaii-licensed architect named Robert Smelker. He'll put a stamp on the plans for $350, nearly three times the price of the plans themselves! Bah!

A couple I read about spent around $1500 on stamping and permits.

Now you have a housepad, and septic. But no house. So let's see..the CC&Rs say a house has to be over 880 sqf. Grrr...I hate it when people try to tell me what I can put in MY land. But the GC is 952 sqf...so ok.

DH would probably have fencing installed at this point because he'd be paranoid of things disappearing from the construction site. I don't know how much it would cost. The lot is 8040 sqf.

The big problem with Hawaii is things are not as readily available. The Home Depot and Lowes dont even carry lumber! The options are different and can cost a lot more than on the mainland. Lumber can be obtained from Honsador, HPM, Trojan...among others.

I think we're going to get all our tools from craigslist and Amazon.com. Amazon Prime membership guarantees free shipping.

The big expense will be the building materials. There are contractor costs just because you can't legally do your own wiring or plumbing!!! GRRR! Nanny government at work...I've been told wiring and plumbing can go as far as $10,000 altogether. This couple spent that much:
http://moonoverhawaii.blogspot.com/2007/11/dollars-and-sense.html

I think we're going to do our own and just get a plumber to stamp it.

Water in Hawaii is by catchment systems mostly. Expect to spend $1500 in gutter installation. Then a catchment tank (price varies) and pump and pressure tank...DH wants to build a ferrocement catchment tank.

Roofing: we noticed the roofs there are really squatty. No idea how much the roof will cost but I hear it's FOOD-GRADE metal!! And I was just told home-made trusses are mostly illegal!!!!!!

That's all I got so far. Here's a few links we've found very helpful.

http://moonoverhawaii.blogspot.com/2007/11/dollars-and-sense.html

http://www.punaweb.org/Forum/default.asp

http://www.hiloagent.com/islandinfo.htm

I'll edit more in as I find out more.

--maggie

[glenn kangiser]

Interesting - Sounds as if it could get expensive.

No chance of building a natural hippie shack in the jungle?

[maggiethecat]

Interesting - Sounds as if it could get expensive.

No chance of building a natural hippie shack in the jungle?

Only if you want to get friendly with the other hippies. Marijuana cultivation is rampant, which attracts government thugs, which causes people to brew crystal meth instead...don't get me started!

We're beginning to regret our choice of state and we haven't even got there yet...it better have some really good beaches and weather!

I should have put my foot down and said we're going to Texas....but that too is getting invaded by Mexicans awaiting the sign to start killing us...

--maggie

[glenn kangiser]

I've heard some of the Hawaiian natives don't care for mainlanders also -- Heard anything of that?

[maggiethecat]

Heard a thing or two. Not really concerned much about that, with all the other stuff we gotta deal with.

It's just been a night, and I haven't slept at all...I'm usually a lot more positive.

The main advantage of building in Hawaii is that you can buy land for $10,000, build a house, and then sell it at profit. In spite of the real estate bubble bursting, people still want to go to hawaii and I think we can make money out of the house we'll build if we decide to move to Alaska or Texas instead. Houses in that area go from 100,000 and up. I am quite sure we can build the GC for about $30,000 over the course of a year. Don't you think it's possible?

--maggie

[CREATIVE1]

Are you talking just the house, or house plus land improvements, septic, engineering, permitting, etc.?  If you're talking just the house, it may be possible.  I'm planning on $60/sq foot as a reasonable budget doing much of it ourselves (we are also required to have some services by professionals which ups the budget considerably), not including well and septic but everything else.  I'm buying lumber direct from the mill, getting windows and doors half price, and getting everything used that I can---Craig's List and Habitat Store, etc.  We are having to overbuild for earthquakes and snow loads, so the same house would require fewer materials in Hawaii.

FYI, I built a 1,700 square foot house on stilts in Florida for $30,000 in 1985, and was told then that it was practically impossible. 

[Johnny P]

Hey Maggie, Sounds like your really getting into the research. Me and the GF looked at land in Puna and the rest of the big island last year. I recommend you wait till you get there and spend a few days visiting the different plots before desciding on a spot. As I remember me and the GF werent to excited about the subdivided properties in Puna, However we did find some plots in more out of the way towns that were very jungly and pretty cool. Ill ask her what she remembers about the different areas tonight. They werent part of a subdivision, so Im willing to bet you could avoid some of the zoning rules put in place by a developer.

One word of caution about hawaii local goverments in general. They are plagued by corruption, nepatizm and not always the friendliest to "howlies" (translates to outsider and can be used in a positive or negative way) Most of the locals you meet will be friendly just like anyone else, However I have noticed they are more receptive to howlie females. If youre husband is blonde and blue eyed he will be at a distinct disadvantage with the locals. I have found this to be my case often. Like I said though if you are a friendly respectful person things are normally fine.

Youre husbands worries about tools disapearing are well founded. Hawaii doesnt have much if at all of the big crimes we are used to hearing about on the main land. Petty theivery though is rediculous if its not embedded in concrete it will disappear.

Puna is a mega eclectic mix of marijauna farmers, artists, hippies, retirees, meth manufacturers, religous ?"fanatics"? It is a really interesting experience to go to the local health food store and people watch.

It is possible Puna could be covered in a new lava flow at any time. Insurance?

Is it possible to use a post and pier foundation? CHeap and easier

[Nicky]

Johnny P beat me to it! lol...

Haole! (pronounced "How Lee") That's what the local Hawaiians call us. Plan on getting ripped off... because you are white. I hate to type that out loud. But, it is true. If you are all ready second guessing your choice, why not save yourself the headache and change your mind early in the game?

[CREATIVE1]

If you're not scared off by the last post, I found this supplier that handles most everything.
http://www.containerhomesupply.com/

[maggiethecat]

Hi you guys, thanks for the replies.

Creative, I'm talking about everything. I think that with enough time and enough craigslist hunting anything is possible. I was told permitting and stamping will probably cost around $1500. Thanks for the link, by the way!

JohnnyP, you're not JohnnyCake from the punaweb, are you? Just curious, would be quite the coincidence. :o) Thanks for the reply, it goes  with everything I've been reading.  Yes we're using pier and post no doubt! Probably get insurance, yes, if affordable.

Nicky, I'm sorry I sounded like a whiner, I was just tired.

Okay, I just found out that in Hawaii, roofs must overhang at least 3 feet in every direction.

This is what I was told:

Hawaii roofs factor in wind, rain and sun. We have a "sunshine" load on our roofs of about 20# per square foot for live load and about 10# per square foot for dead load. Used to be (back before the eighties) we'd run rafters or trusses at four foot on center, plop two by threes across those at two feet on center and nail on roofing tin. That worked until Hurricane Ewa and Iniki and then they changed the codes. Now the roofs have more Simpson ties, closer rafter/trusses and we still fasten tin over the top in most cases.

One of the most important things for a roof in Hawaii is the three foot eave overhang. That not only keeps the rain away from your house but it keeps the sun off the sides of the house as well. Many times mainland house plans don't have any or anywhere near enough roof overhangs and the resulting structures are miserable to live in.

I wonder if I would get away with awnings instead...oh well.

--maggie

[maggiethecat]

We're finally in Hawaii!! HALLELUJAH! We went to HOME DEPOT IN HILO today!!!! And they had EVERYTHING for housebuilding!! Here I was thinking building in Hawaii was going to cost an arm and a leg due to there being no lumber in Home Depot Hawaii because their website says they don't carry any lumber.

Well well, we go in there today and DH is in love with the store! It's stocked with exactly the same things there were in texas and LA and MORE! And at the same prices for most items!

2x4s in clear fir were more expensive though, they were 12.97 in 8' length...but everything was there, even simpson strong ties eb44!!!!

There's a lot going on now but I'll post about it later. Too nauseous due to pregnancy.

--maggie

[Sassy]

I'm so happy you made it over there & that HD has all the stuff you need & at about the same prices!  How do you like the Island?   Take care of yourself & baby - how far along are you?  All kinds of adventures    Homegrown just took us through her pregnancy & birth of her daughter - fun & interesting 

[glenn kangiser]

Maggie, that sounds like some special 2x4 for trim or something -- how about 8' studs or 2 and better -- should be around $3.00 over here I think

[maggiethecat]

I'm so happy you made it over there & that HD has all the stuff you need & at about the same prices!  How do you like the Island?   Take care of yourself & baby - how far along are you?  All kinds of adventures    Homegrown just took us through her pregnancy & birth of her daughter - fun & interesting 

Hi Sassy! I'm 3 months in and I can already feel the small kicks. Today I learned Frank (the baby) doesn't like coffee, it really ticks him off. ;-)

DH was FLOORED in Home Depot, he didn't want to leave. Men are easily entertained...

I LOVE Hawaii so far and I am thinking of blogging about it, but I'm so nauseous most of the time, I can't feel inspired to type.

--maggie

[maggiethecat]

Maggie, that sounds like some special 2x4 for trim or something -- how about 8' studs or 2 and better -- should be around $3.00 over here I think

Hi Glenn...I don't know the answer. I want to know from you what you like best...spruce, hemlock, fir, pine? If you were building the GC what would you use for the studs?

I'm pretty sure I can't keep my husband from dragging my pregnant body into Home Depot with him again tomorrow...so let me know and we'll take down prices!

--maggie

[glenn kangiser]

Douglas Fir is probably one of the best IMO but what is available reasonably can vary a lot regionally o I doubt they will have more than one framing wood type available.  You'll likely just have to make the best of whatever type they carry.

[Sassy]

Hopefully the morning sickness (all the time with some people..  ) will just about be over - the 1st 3 months most feel really tired & have the nausea - the next 3-4 months are great, then the last 2 months the baby is getting big, kicking the heck out of your insides & it's hard to get comfortable or sleep...  I had heartburn really bad, too - so did Homegrown.  But that just gets you ready to deliver that baby    I never had much nausea, but I couldn't stand coffee & was really picky about what I wanted to eat. 

But then, that's a lot of years back...  my youngest is almost 27... 

I figured you would love the Island    everyone who goes there seems to...  that would be fun to read your blog...

[muldoon]

woohoo, that's awesome guys.  happy independence day indeed!

On the lumber question, you should use a material that meets the requirements for the task.  I don't think it matters as much on studs (someone please correct this if its wrong), but for joists and rafters, you need to be more careful about what you use.  Bookmark or even better print out
http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publications/articles/understanding_loads_using_span_tables.html

It is a decent walk through of framing and loading and span tables.  At the end are the charts for various types of wood and their characteristics.   Find the materials that do the job correctly, then pick the cheapest option that works to get it done. 

[maggiethecat]

Home Depot prices for stuff in Hilo, Hawaii:

Lumber:

2x4 - 8 Hibor Doug Fir Std & Btr: 3.97

2x4 - 16 HDF & BTR: 7.97

2x4 - 20 Hibor D. Fir Std & BTR: 9.97

2x6 - 12 Hibor Doug Fir #2: 8.47

2x8 - 16: 15.97

2x8 - 20: 19.98

2x10 - 16: 21.97

2x12 - 8: 13.98

2x12 - 10: 16.97

2x12 - 16: 27.97

4x4 - D. Fir: 8.97

4x4 - 10 DF: 12.27

4x4 - 12: 14.98

4x6 - 8: 14.97

4x8 - 12: 43.97

4x10 - 12: 53.97

4x10 - 16: 87.97

1x6 - 12: 6.47

1/2" CDX: 21.97

3/8" CDX: 16.97

5/8" CDX: 26.97

3/4" CDX: 32.97

5/8" T1-11, 8" OC 4x8: 44.97


5/8" T1-11, 8" OC 4x9: 72.97

5.2mm Lauan: $12.88

1/4" Birch Hardwood plywood: 27.95

3/8" Sanded Pine plywood: 18.97

3/4" ACX: 45.97

5/8" ACX: 39.97

5/8 4x8 T1-11 4" oc: 44.97

3/4" Maple/Birch Plywood: 46.88

1/4" Oak hardwood plywood: 19.00

1x12 - 8 pine: $13.83

Other stuff:

5x50FT 11.5 gauge chain link: 95.00
10FT top rail: 12.64
8FT post: 14.84

Suntuf 12': 28.48
Suntuf 8;: 19.98
Palruf PUC: 20.75

#30 Felt paper/216sqf: 24.75

EPB44HDG: 11.98
EPB44PHDG: 12.77

7x4x7 Termite Block: 2.70
16x6x16 MW Foundation Block: 9.98
Double strap pier: 34.99
12x5x12 Garage pier with strap: 18.25
60LB Quikcrete bag: 5.97
6x8x16 DBL Solid End Block: 1.75
Red brick: 0.82
1/2"X10'  Rebar: 7.30

3/8" 4x8 Drywall: 12.48


Husband wrote these down July 4th 2008...while I walked home alone annoyed at men in general... ;-)

--maggie

[glenn kangiser]

while I walked home alone annoyed at men in general... ;-)

--maggie

    I can't think of one reason.

Prices don't look that bad maggie, although I don't get to check them often.  Would you like to talk to Sassy? hmm

[Sassy]

Men...     gotta love them...     They'll drive you to distraction sometimes...  and if you have a hardheaded one like I do...     I've waited around in HD or Lowes for hours while Glenn was looking at electrical items or irrigation items or whatever - he'll study all the stuff, deciding what he wants - that doesn't include all the other stuff he has to look at - I go to the garden center or the kitchen center or other places of interest...

Besides, you are pregnant...  everything is going to be more intense -your hormones are going wild, especially in the 1st 3 months- they'll do the same after you give birth as everything is trying to get back to normal...   

Hang in there...   

[CREATIVE1]

Home Depot should be able to do a cost estimate for you if you provide them with the plans.  Then you'll have a better idea about the budget. They might charge you though, up to $300.00. You can also ask another company to do it, since some are free.  Then you can compare costs for each size of lumber etc. and see how it compares with Home Depot prices.

In 1985 our basic materials package--lumber, windows, doors, roofing, siding, etc.--cost $15,000. It did NOT include plumbing, electric, flooring, and drywall. For the Victoria Cottage (smaller than our present home), we will be looking at $25,000 to $30,000 for the same AT RETAIL, but we are trying to cut costs in various ways so I know it will be less. I'll be curious to see what your materials costs will be.

[maggiethecat]

He was being selfish, he didn't take into consideration the fact that I think that tools are BORING.

I'm pregnant, my feet hurt and he wanted me to walk around home depot.

Then I went to Ross because I need maternity clothes and he was looking irritated because I was there for 5 minutes. It was not necessary for him to be at Home Depot, we don't have land yet, we haven't bought John's plans yet, all he does is dream of building that house. We finally rented a car yesterday and went to look at land for sale and houses for rent. We met up with a wonderful owner-builder retired couple who slept in a tent on the property while they built their house. I'm a STRONG TOUGH Texas gal but if he thinks I'm going to do that while PREGNANT he has another thing coming! If he wanted that, he should have waited and made a baby AFTER the house was built.

Now I want comfort, comfy clothes, rest, painkillers during delivery and fried pinapples. And pickles. I think I'll go wake him up to get me some.

--maggie

[glenn kangiser]

You are scaring me maggie. 

Tool's -- boring? hmm I can't even begin to imagine that. 

[CREATIVE1]

Maggie, couldn't you make some more comfortable arrangements for now, such as acting as fill-in hosts/reservationists at a resort with accommodations included, or doing murals in exchange for lodging to conserve your money while getting familiar with your new environment?

I lived in a house that was "dried in" without plumbing and electricity or interior walls, while we worked on finishing, which took close to a year.  I wouldn't recommend it.