Fireproof Cabin Building

[caseyanderica]

Hello All,

I just purchased 10 acres (near Adin, California) with my girlfriend and intend to build a rustic cabin of less than 120 square feet so that we can avoid a building permit from Lassen County. The land sits on an old lava bed and is very dry. I had a few questions:

1. Does anyone own a cabin / live in the area? I'd be grateful to hear your experiences? We're both extremely excited to visit in May and experience the surrounding area (Lassen, Cinder Cone, Lava Beds, Mt. Shasta, etc).

2. We plan on building the cabin over the course of a year (starting in September). One main concern is that the area is very dry and I worry that at some point the cabin will be damaged by fire. Does anyone know of any cheap way to fireproof? Has anyone used concrete block construction? Bricks are pretty expensive. Is there anyway to use metal (i.e. steel poles) for the frame?

3. As I said, the land sits on an old lava bed and there isn't much soil at all. There are thousands of old volcanic rocks strewn about. Has anyone had any experience working with local rocks as the main source for construction? I think it would look awesome if the facade was made with stones from the land (+ mortar). I was trying to think of ways to incorporate them, does anyone have any ideas?

Hope all is well,

Casey (and Erica)

P.S. We spoke with someone from the County zoning/land use who informed us that we could build anything under 120 square feet without a building permit so long as it wasn't a permanent residence. He continued to say that if we slept there a few times every year, they wouldn't mind at all. Have others had similar experiences? It seems to be relatively commonplace, but I feel a little uneasy about the ambiguity.

[cedarglen]

In my rural mountain area of So. California buildings under 120 sq ft do not need a permit because they are considered to be sheds. You should not sleep in a shed and if you do it is an issue for county code enforcement if your neighbors turn you in. It is also a code enforcement issue if you park an RV on your lot and sleep in it, so what are you going to do? On 10 acres I would say build in the middle of it and who will ever know? Regarding "fireproof" if building out of wood, I would frame it with 2x4's put drywall on both the inside and outside of the studs then Hardie panel siding over the drywall. Google "1 hour fire rated assemblies" for more ways you can do it.

Charles

[glenn kangiser]

You could add the metal tie tabs, 1" space felt over the inner wall - space outside it for drainage and put your facade of rock over it.  Beef up the framing - tile roof - slate roof, metal roof over metal standoff hat channels etc, could all help for fire prevention as well as clearing your "defensible  space"..

The rock facade would make it look like a rock building and add fire protection.  You would need to add a footing under the rock.

Edit: Oh yeah -- how rude of me

-- I forgot ---

Welcome to the forum -- thanks, John.

[Redoverfarm]

caseyanderica  I see that you are new here so     .  The steel post would be an idea but you would have to fabricate a bracket for the beams.  That would not neccessarily protect the structure if it was where the fire could penetrate from the ground up into the floor joist area.  A rock facade would most likely work.  I am not familar with lava rock as we don't have any here but if they are fairly light they could be applied like cultured stone (lick and stick) by using a lath wire, parged and then applied.  If you wanted to use cultured stone there is no foundation needed only a wood substrate, lath wire and stone. 

[MountainDon]

One of the most important things you can do concerns the land within 30 feet of the structure. Conifers within 30 feet should have all branches pruned off to a height of no less than 6 feet, and there should be no trees or shrubs within 10 feet. Grass should be kept short and ideally none within 10 feet.

Then add a non combustible roof surface. Watch the eves overhang... metal or non combustible (NOT vinyl) soffits, or No soffits will prevent fire from getting a toe hold via the eves. Also keep crawl space skirted with non combustible material.

Follow this Google search link to more info
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wildfire+and+residential+structures&btnG=Google+Search

If the lava rock is in convenient size pieces it could be used to at least skirt the building. That could make interesting walls as well.

As for living in the "too small to be a legal residence" cabin. You might get away with it. You might not. The person you talked with stated once in a while would be okay, but you'll not find a definition for once in a while use. If you get a copy of the regulations you'll likely see there are specific prohibitions against doing that very thing. However, there may be a good chance you can get away with it, the more so if your cabin is not readily visible from adjacent properties/roads. Do you have trees, tall bushes?

And 

[caseyanderica]

Hi All,

Thanks for the info... below are some pictures of the land...

As you can see it's pretty rocky and pretty dry. There isn't a lot of vegetation though, so I'm hoping maybe it will be enough if I cleared my defensible space and added several of the options that were discussed. I'd like to build a rock wall over time (surrounding the immediate area) which will hopefully add some more barriers.

One option I was thinking of, to avoid getting into trouble with the county, is building a storage shed (10'x10' or so) and then nearby a lean-to with 3 sides, which aren't regulated. There aren't really any neighbors and there's enough coverage to find a spot that can't be seen.

Once we finalize our plans, I'd like to post our progress on this site. Thanks for the welcome and the responses.

Hope all is well,

Casey and Erica

[NM_Shooter]

Yeah!  Running water!

[glenn kangiser]

Sounds like the county isn't too interested to me if that's what they told you.  I'd keep a low profile and do it.

I'd do the full 120 outside measure - you'd be under inside.

It's my opinion that it's none of their business if you own the land -- but then of course -- the county owns the land don't they.  Don't let me get you into trouble with property rights ideas.  Free country? hmm Right.

Shut up, Glenn -- he's new here and doesn't know to ignore you and roll his eyes yet.    Shut up -- voices. 

There- got that under control.

I really like the Lassen area.  Sassy and I went through the park and hiked out to Bumpass Hell.

That much water all year?  We have been talking about hydro power and you could use a water ram maybe to pump water. [idea]

[mvk]

hi welcome

Real pretty site I like that area to. That will burn though and hot that sage will  blow around when burning and carry fire to any trees.

Is that lava the kind that floats or is it the harder more dense stuff? Looks like it's the dense stuff tuff on the ankles huh.

I had a friend send me some of the pumice that came out of St Helen's. It floated I always wondered if anyone ever used that to build. I kind of thought that if you had it a 2 feet thick or so it might be enough insulation if you were in a moderate climate? I was thinking stack it in a re bar and wire cage and shoot it with gunite? Maybe cover it with that cob Glen works with

Mike

[caseyanderica]

The water is JUST off of my land about 100'. I spoke with my neighbors about getting a ROW to the water, but I'm not sure how they will feel.

The lava rock is pretty dense compared to the more explosive kinds on Mt. St. Helens. There are a lot of bubbles, but the rock is still pretty dense - won't float.

I was thinking the same thing with respect to the rebar and wire cage... I just wouldn't know what to do with the interior...? Has anyone had any experience using field stone for building construction (on a larger scale than rock walls)? I suppose that might be better served under a new topic?

[Dustin]

I have some land that is similar to yours. All pinon pine and junipers, with some ponderosas scattered about, scrub oak and sage brush everywhere else. My tree cover is a bit more dense, however.



Anyhow, with all the rock you have, you might want to consider slipform masonry walls. They are fireproof.
Check out this site:
http://www.hollowtop.com/cls_html/cls.html

I own Thomas Elpel's book, Living Homes and it's really worth the read.

There's a lot of good free information on the site about building your own home on limited means.

Other options for non-combustible cheap walls are rammed earth, earthships, or my favorite and Glenn's too, a $50 and Up Underground House design by Mike Oehler.

[caseyanderica]

Beautiful!

I was looking for a while out in the Kanab area and then Eastern Utah / Western Colorado near Monticello and Blanding but my land in California was the only land I found in my price range (under $10,000).

[Dustin]

We used to have a part ownership of a ranch in Central CA near Ft. Hunter Leggitt but it's be 20 years since I've been there.
Ever since then we have been looking for land in a nice ranch area. This was it. NE of Kanab. We got 20 acres and membership in the association (which own another 2000 in common) 2 1/2 years ago for $26,000.The only thing I wish it had was more water. There are springs and ponds here and there but no rivers or large streams on the property.  We will often go to Zion from there to take the kids swimming. But I haven't found all the cool spots yet. There's a lot to explore.

[caseyanderica]

That whole area is amazing. I'm a geology minor and was blessed with the opportunity to travel the American Southwest one summer mapping rock formations. Bryce and Zion are gorgeous as are the Coral Pink Sand Dunes, Dixie National Forest, Capitol Reef and parts of Grand Staircase. One of my favorite places was near Bluff, Utah, which is about 6 hours directly east of you. It's Comb Ridge:



One of those places that isn't really publicized. It's just land owned by the BLM like 80% of Utah. But I was searching on Google Earth and somebody had posted a native ruin in one of the smaller slot canyons on the 80 mile ridge and so I drove in on a dirt road seven miles, parked the car and hiked in... it seemed as though nothing had been touched in ages. It was like a native ghost town. Cobs littered the ground along with pieces of old pottery. And there were hundreds of ruins along the 80 miles of Comb Ridge. Literally every canyon you hiked into had another untouched ruin. It was awesome.

One amazing site for anyone in the American Southwest is:

http://www.americansouthwest.net/

The clickable maps are especially easy to use and it's very thorough.

Casey

[MountainDon]

That looks like you're looking south towards highway 95.  ??

That corner of UT (between Bluff and Lake Powell), is one of my favorite spots. Comb Ridge and Comb Wash abound with Anasazi era ruins. I'm a 4x4 enthusiast will actually be right in that area in early May. We've found several ruins that have not made it to any maps. It's very cool to see and walk in one and know that very few people even know it exists. You do need a good 4x4 to see some of them. And just so nobody wonders, we don't break new trails, we only use existing trails, many from the uranium exploration days of the 40's and 50's.

I'd never seen any marked on Google Earth. Do you mind sharing where that one is? Email or PM if you don't want to post publicly.

And not meaning to be too critical, but the BLM does not own any land, although their employees may act like they do. The BLM manages the land. It's public land. It's just a sore point with me as they close more and more areas to easy access.

[Drew]

Hi CaseyandErica.

I like your idea of the rock wall.  It will give you something to do with all the rocks you'll collect.

These guys will have much better ideas on fire resistant construction than I will.  Yeah, you'd want to build clear of the dry stuff and reduce your risk, but maybe you want to look at what your risk is.  Is it the building?  You could probably build a 120 sf place for $5k from wood materials and the labor putting it up is something you have the skills for.  How much would concrete block or the other methods going to cost in relation to that $5k?  Given your precautions (e.g., clearing brush, etc.) what are the chances a wildfire will get the place?  How much rebuilding would you have to do with a concrete block building?

I know this sounds cold and insurance agenty, and it doesn't account for your labor and emotional investment in your place.  It's only a perspective.  And if you spend 6 months building your shed, you won't have any time left over for your outhouse!

Hey, Glenn.  How is straw bale construction on fire resistance?  Can they mine clay in volcanic rock or would they get to buy it?

Straw bale construction has about 2 inches of earth plaster over straw.  Rice straw is especially fire resistant.  They say that if you get an internal fire in a straw bale wall you have 30 days to get out of the building. 

[MountainDon]

Really nice stone walls...



That one is about 800 years old, give or take a few.

It's off the beaten track in UT. It's not on any maps. It wasn't discovered by whites until the 1950's. The red line indicates the last part of the hike in, starting from the upper right.



his is looking in the other direction. The ruins are all along the ledge



I'm sure these are lurking someplace around here in another topic. ... Now back to the subject of fireproofing... fire resistant would probably be a better term   

[davidj]

Hi there,

That's a great lot for the money - it looks like it's got that real open feel that you get where the mountains and forest meet the desert.

We're kinda neighbours - our lot is near Graeagle in Plumas County.  Quite a drive from your place, but not a whole lot of much between you and us.
Here's our thread.

In Plumas County they're pretty laid back about temporarily-habited "storage sheds".  They also allow 120 sq ft unpermitted and 200 sq ft permitted sheds with just a lot plan and no inspections for the larger one. Not sure if Lassen does the same.  I think a lot of this stretching of the rules depends on whether your neighbors complain.  We're doing  our main cabin as a single bedroom 20x30 (mostly so we can have a bathroom and a heated space for Winter) and the second and third bedroom are gonna be a couple of "sheds" off in the trees!  That's assuming I can stop building small structures and knuckle down to doing a foundation for the main structure...

I'd second the suggestion that, for a 120 sq ft structure, building it twice with basic fire protection could be the same money and time as building it once such that it will survive anything.  But if you've got the time then a rock structure would seem to fit in well with the terrain and would be really interesting (and a lot more time consuming!).

Have fun!

David.

[NM_Shooter]

I've got a buddy who lives in the Manzanos Mountains (which, BTW, are currently on fire).  When I asked him if he did any fireproofing of his property, such as clearing brush and trees from around the house, he just grinned at me.  He said that his fire preparation consisted of making sure that his documents and valuables are easy to load into his trailer to get them out of harms way.  If the forest around him burns, he wants his house to go too.  He said that nobody wants to live back in an area that has been burned out, and that he would rather take the insurance and rebuild elsewhere. 

Kind of a strange philosophy, but I guess i can see the point.

[MountainDon]

I can see his point, but I don't know if I could do that... setting up to burn in effect.

And I absolutely hate dealing with insurance companies...

[glenn kangiser]

And not meaning to be too critical, but the BLM does not own any land, although their employees may act like they do. The BLM manages the land. It's public land. It's just a sore point with me as they close more and more areas to easy access.

I'm with you on that Don.  Places they allow to look private around here are actually public.  PO's me royal.