Author Topic: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed  (Read 10611 times)

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Offline queensvillekitten

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1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« on: April 24, 2005, 04:44:10 AM »
Hi everyone...

I have a cottage in Bracebridge, Ontario and am planning on rebuilding behind the existing cottage starting next month.

I am stuck on the 1 1/2 story design and I really like the design of the 16x24 Post and Pier Cabin as well as the 1 1/2 story with loft.  However, I prefer the roof sloping towards the front as in the 16x24 model.

My other non-negotiables to design would be a back door and a fireplace, that the cottage is approximately 750 - 1000 sq feet, that the cottage be wider than it is long and most importantly that the building design be a simple as possible.

I have never built a house before but am very handy with general building, electrical, plumbing and roofing etc and have all the tools necessary.

I have viewed all of the plans but can't seem to find a plan that meets these requirements....mainly the roof and width requirements.

Any advice or suggestions or links or plans that would help me achieve this plan would be much appreciated.

Elly
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 04:50:10 AM by queensvillekitten »

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2005, 07:53:48 AM »
Hi Elly,

Are you saying that you want a shed roof all sloping one way or that you would like to use one side of the cabin as the front so it would be wider than it is long and retain the gable roof.

Major roof changes would greatly affect the upstairs usable space.

John may have some suggestions.

Glenn
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Offline queensvillekitten

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2005, 08:11:14 AM »
Hi Glen

No, I don't think so:)

I'm saying that I like the layout and overall design of this link:
http://www.countryplans.com/20w_loft.html

but I don't like the roof layout (going left and right)
and the fact that it is longer than wide.

I like the roof better in this one (Velsko) (from front to back) and the fact that it is wider than long
http://www.countryplans.com/velsko.html
but I think the plans for this one don't really match to the picture of the Velsko.

So in a nut shell:), I would like plans to build exactly the Velsko...exactly the way it looks (including a fireplace) or plans for the first one, modified to be wider than longer with a back door and a fireplace.

Does that make sense?

Elly
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 08:14:23 AM by queensvillekitten »

Offline John Raabe

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Re: 1 1/2 Story Help Needed
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2005, 09:13:07 AM »
There is not a standard plan available for exactly what Velsko built.

He, like most people, realized there was no perfect stock plan for what he wanted to do.

The Velsko plan could be worked up from the 16' wide Victoria Cottage plan and a good building book such as found in the first few listings on the Books page.

However, even if you had the Velsko plan you would probably be making more changes from that. This is the natural way to design a house. Everyone customizes locally — and that's as it should be. The site is unique, the needs of the owner unique, the locally available skills, materials, climate, etc.

You just start with something that comes closest and then evolve from there. This is certainly cheaper and easier than starting from scratch.

If you wanted a 20' wide cottage the 1 1/2 story could have a shed dormer and side porch added to match what Velsko did. The side porch is already included as an option in the plans. The shed dormer is something your builder could figure out and you will find in several building books (double the trusses on either side).

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 09:18:09 AM by jraabe »
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Offline queensvillekitten

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2005, 09:39:20 AM »
thanks Jon

I think I may just go with the first plans then as they are pretty close and I want to keep the expense down.

Elly


Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2005, 09:45:20 AM »
Me again Elly,
John just said what I was getting at- and the pics you linked confirmed that what you want  is the side on some plans as being the front of your house.  With the skills you have and a little help as needed I think you can modify the plans and make the house the way you want it.

Glenn
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Offline queensvillekitten

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2005, 06:36:55 AM »
Hi

It's me Elly.

I was wondering if I could get your expert advice on footings.

I've purchased the cottage plans now for a 1 1/2 story 800 Sq Ft , Building Code book, de-treed the lot last weekend and the backhoe guy should have cleared the lt this week.  So I'm ready :) so to speak .

Anyway, I can't seem to find how wide the concrete footings have to be.  I know they cannot exceed 3 x the height of the smallest width but can't find the width.  Does anyone have an idea for what would be 'reasonable'?

Also, since it will be built primarily on rock, I am planning to drill all footings and use re-bar? to hold the footings in place.  Should I  to do that on all of them or just some of them?

Also, this cottage is 22 x 28 and I have submitted drawings for 12 pier fottings.  Does that seem excessive or not enough?  

I would have attached pics but couldn't figure out how to do that.
Oh wait...I think I figured it out:

http://ca.geocities.com/jeepandbikegirl/Projectspage.html

Elly
« Last Edit: May 20, 2005, 06:58:13 AM by queensvillekitten »

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2005, 06:59:22 PM »
Hi Elly,

Your pictures are real impressive.  It looks like you should do fine.  

Here's what John has posted for footing information in general.  He has the specific information in his plans. I don't have them, and he is gone until Monday.

http://countryplans.com/foundation/index.html

If you are on rock you shouldn't have a problem with soil bearing capacity.  Many times a local engineer designs the foundation to insure adequate support.  If I was anchoring to rock I would pin each one.  A rotohammer and epoxy makes short work of that.  

Do your plans tell you anything about foundation requirements, beams , posts etc?

Do you have a building department you have to get permits from or no permit required?  They may require an engineered foundation.

While there are some experts here, they only act in an unofficial capacity offering help and suggestions.  John has a plan support section for his plans but even they must be adjusted to requirements for local conditions.  

Your loading and beam sizes supporting the structure also affect the number and size of footings required.  It seems your plans should tell you something or maybe they are leaving it entirely up to the local engineer.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2005, 07:04:56 PM by glenn-k »
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline queensvillekitten

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2005, 06:38:18 AM »
Hi Glen...thanks

I am in the middle of the building permit stuff (much more complicated than I thought):)To make a long story short...they are willing to give me a conditional building permit that makes me resonsible to tear down the old cottage upon completion of the new OR a conditional building permit which makes me responsible to retrofit the old cottage into a boat house upon completion of the new providing I make an application to close the shore allowance and buy the shore allowance from them (bit of an oximoron since they took it from me in the first place).  The shore allowance will take 6 months to approve.  Then, after that approved application,  my building permit would be granted.  So what I thought is that I would build the footings only while I'm waiting for that approval which they should really care about since it isn't a deck or anything...just footings (I tell say they are alien landing markers is any one asks:)

So because I'm going about it backwards (before approval and corrections made by the town) I am kind of going blindly.

The plans have a concrete slab foundation as well as a basement plan.  There are no pier footing plans.

I 'winged' the footing drawings that I submitted by deciding that 12 footings sound reasonable and put one row underneath the support /loadbearing wall.  It is my understanding that the town will 'correct' these drawings where appropriate.  However, I read in the code book that pier footings are designed for a one story only and that a 'competent authority' is required for anything outside of that.  So I think that means I need to hire an architech:)

Have you used Big Foot footings?  I found them on the internet and am wondering whether they are any good and worth the trouble of getting?

http://bigfootsystems.com

I am beginning to see that I may need the architech to proceed but am curious to know your two cents.

Thanks again....Elly


Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2005, 06:50:49 AM »
We have info on this site about the Bigfoot footings - I don't remember anyone actually using them though.

I would suggest waiting for approval before doing the footings -probably just an exercise in futility, and I don't want to see you waste money and energy that could be better used elsewhere. ;D  Probably better just jump on your bike and kick up a few rooster tails. ;D  Even if what you propose is reasonable the architect or engineer will probably design something different -the building department would be indignant and unbending.

Hope this helps
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline queensvillekitten

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2005, 08:38:42 AM »
Probably good advice.....

I'm just not sure I can do it.:)

Offline Amanda_931

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2005, 05:05:47 PM »
John's plans are very reasonably priced, and with them you do get reasonable amounts of access to help from him (not, I'd think, step-by-step handholding but still a lot of help)--and some--more or less useful--from the rest of us.  Glenn's done a lot of building.

Small houses, especially ones like that 16 x 24 cabin do have lots of design compromises in them.

Doors can pretty well be moved around with no problems, although you need some bracing for wall stiffness (if you're replacing a window with a door, it's probably already added in).  Length, as in just adding more pairs of rafters, is not a really big deal either.  Unless they are load-bearing, walls can be put anywhere.

The width that the rafters span is another story.  then you start getting into engineered trusses, load-bearing walls, and a little more serious thinking about how things work.  

Not awful--to get insulation depth you may need something deeper than standard rafters--sometimes they end up cheaper (and lighter for one or two to install) as well, because nobody has to run out and find a whole bunch of  30-foot 2x12's or something.

So making the non-gable end the "front" makes sense when you want the footprint wider than deep.  If you are looking for solar gain, maybe less so.

I really like the idea of a 1 1/2 story house.  You may have to put a dormer or two (shed dormers are easier) to get light and view into the upstairs.

It's possible that the person who can help you most with plans would be a draftsperson--someone there who knows local practice, but is not an architect or a structural engineer.

I've nearly ordered a plan from this book.  Available at bookstores and big box stores like Lowes nationwide.  Worth looking at.  I think that that one you are thinking of may be in it.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0376010614/qid=1116727149/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/104-3912253-9893536?v=glance&s=books

And it does look like you have the skills to do this.



Offline queensvillekitten

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2005, 03:29:26 AM »
Thanks Amanda..you are obviously very knowledgable too.

I think you're right....I'll see who I can find up there this week to help me design the footings.  That way travelling will be a minimum for him/her and hopefully they'll have a working relationship already with the town.

I am building the cottage exactly as the plans show on my site..no changes as I'm totally happy with them.  

I am going to have a friend of mine make me one roof rafter and then I'll use that as a template to make the rest.

Elly
« Last Edit: May 22, 2005, 03:30:13 AM by queensvillekitten »

Offline matsuscha

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2005, 02:36:17 PM »
Elly - enjoyed reading the thread  & all of your pics - what a diverse person!!  

I also was  impressed b the plans/pic of the new dottage you want to build = looks just what I'm looking for as a starter on some acrerage I own across the country here in Birmingham AL - would be used as a 'starter' until I finish my next degree.. would you be willing to disclose where you got the plans?  is it here? -

thanks, and good luch w/all yours -
caroline
b'ham, al

Offline queensvillekitten

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2005, 03:37:39 PM »
Hi Caroline

Thanks...

Sure here's the link:

http://www.globalhouseplans.com/cgi-bin/advanced_search.cgi?method=a_search&country=canadian

I liked the plans here too I just wasn't sure how to turn the roof around:)

Elly

Offline Amanda_931

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2005, 03:58:50 PM »
this plan?  I'm quite sure I've seen it when I was a house-plan-book addict--not just Canadian sites.  I might use a bifold door on the bathroom (and/or an outswinging back door and/or an airlock entryway extending out), put a sawdust toilet behind a screen, plan on a ewer and basin for handwashing (or even a real half-bath, with or without the composting toilet), upstairs.

http://www.globalhouseplans.com/house_plans_get_13417_canadian_.htm

Offline matsuscha

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Costs to frame the Victorian
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2005, 10:48:19 AM »
Thanks, Elly!  Nice to see women competent at this around!  

Right now my focus seems to be on the 1 1/s story cottage w/loft vs the victorian cottage from this site.  

the charm of the vitorian w/the patio area would really fit what I see for my spot I've picked, but I think I would like to bump out the stove side wall to the dining area line.  Does anyone have any idea how much something like this would cost to get dryed in w/all but framing done by us? (My husband tells me one thing, but although an elect engineer, I know he's only build freestanding "workshops" & helped his father w/cottages DECADES ago -  ;) so how do I begin developing my own opinion?  ???
b'ham, al

Offline Amanda_931

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2005, 03:42:03 AM »
Two people can do drywall, paneling.  One person can put up individual boards to make a wall. (after all the pipes and wires are put in !)

Wall framing is easy for two people.  Roof, not so easy, although if you use trusses, or are OK with heights, and fairly good at cutting accurately by that stage, it's not what you'd call seriously hard.

By the way, even after only three years the neighbor's shell house from the Amish/Mennonites has worn quite badly.  May not all be the fault of the carpenters, if the owners were in charge of digging the holes for the piers--bunch of settling going on.  And I've always felt that there were some compromises made with ceiling joists--as if the builders expected a load-bearing wall to go there--it hasn't.

Matsuscha, when you're considering your site and house plans, are you thinking things like "can we see the best view from inside the house, where we can enjoy it as eat breakfast or dinner?" or are y'all thinking of the view of the house as you drive up?

You spend a lot more time with the first.  And in this day of McMansions, a tiny cottage is not going to look impressive.  Ten years from now, a cottage may make people think, "I'll bet those people were smart to get only the space they needed."

Christopher Alexander is close to the top of nearly everybody's list of books for builders.  Even my scrounger wizard friends swear by him.  A Pattern Language is very expensive, even after all these years.  It's on John's list of books.

There's a website, miserably organized.    Somewhere on it is an Israeli with a variation of Pattern Language Lite--not not not what he called it--and a set of directions by Alexander for designing a small home for one person--usable for planning for two.  My links are still on another computer.  and I'm trying to leave the house fairly soon, so I'll try to fish those out of the website later.  Sometimes other people have better luck finding them than I do.

But here's the website:

http://www.patternlanguage.com/



Offline matsuscha

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2005, 09:30:08 AM »
Amanda,

thank you so much for all the thought in your reply!  How the house looks when I drive up is thought about - but it is about last.  Functionality and the views are the most important by far to me..

I looked up A Pattern Language - and I'm a little confused how the whole series works, but that title itself can be had in almost new hardback for about $35 thru Amazon - all of them in paperback..  They look really interesting in theory,  and I'll try to look at the whole book soon.

Again, thanks for the information, and look forward to more as my knowledge base grows

caroline
b'ham, al

Offline queensvillekitten

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2005, 05:39:51 PM »
In case anyone is interested, I have attached pics of where I am with the build.

I'm having some dillemmas with the loft so it doesn't seem like a lot of work but a lot of my time is spent figuring out things.  I missed the figuring part about lining up wall studs on both sides tho:):):)

http://ca.geocities.com/jeepandbikegirl/Projectspage.html
I think you'll need to scroll down...Elly

Bart_Cubbins

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2005, 07:14:51 PM »
Nice start, please let us know how things progress... we're definitely interested, that's why we hang out here.

What did you end up doing about pinning the footings?

Offline queensvillekitten

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2005, 02:50:23 AM »
I drilled 15 one-inch holes in the rock, set in the rebar and threaded rod, set them with rockite, poured a 2 x 2 base of concrete and then the 12 inch sono tube.  It passed so it must be ok, especially considering the town only wanted 9 footings:).
Elly

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2005, 04:06:02 AM »
Looks like you did great.  Rockite is good stuff.  I use it for setting handrails sometimes.  Nice job.
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Bart_Cubbins

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2005, 10:54:48 AM »
I'll have to do something similar. I've heard that drilling bedrock requires a rotary hammer, not just a hammer drill. Can you tell me what you used (make/model if possible) and how long it took to drill each hole? Also, did you go through more than one bit? ...thanks
« Last Edit: August 02, 2005, 10:55:27 AM by Bart_Cubbins »

Offline queensvillekitten

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Re: 1 1/2 Storey Help Needed
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2005, 12:44:53 PM »
Hi Bart

I rented a gas drill.....about 85 lbs...not fun.....I only used the one bit and drilled about 12inches into the rock.  My muscles were swore where I didn't even know I had muscles...but then I'm just a wimp:)
It took about 1-2 minutes a hole.
I'm not sure of the brand but I'd remember if I saw it.
Elly
« Last Edit: August 02, 2005, 12:46:02 PM by queensvillekitten »

 

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