Glenn's Underground Cabin Update

[glenn kangiser]

Prospecting today, I noticed a wild grape vine that would make a perfect handrail for the spiral stairs going down from the bridge to the great room.... to code of course.. 

actually it is pretty well within tolerances in nearly all places.





Funny how things grow just to fit this place...






Got a few more shelves done a couple weeks ago too.

[Alasdair]

love the stair and the bannister 
doesn't look like it would be much fun to slide down though

[glenn kangiser]

Private Notice... Not responsible for damage caused by sliding down bumpy banister... Or maybe ... Caution.. Speed Bumps

I sanded off the slivers but it is still a bit bumpy, Al.  

Actually the problem with the grape vine is not slivers - it just has a rather papery bark that is rather messy.  I used a power wire brush for a lot of it but that left it a bit hairy - so I finished it with my pocket knife.  A draw knife would have worked too, but the bark is just light.

I used 1/4 x 6 lags and put a 2" long 1/2 dia EMT spacer on the back to cover the threads. I kind of had to space them to counteract the bends in the vine but roughly 2' apart.  At the end I cut it square then screwed on a return to the wall made from another natural bend in the vine - I brought a few extra feet for spare parts.  [ouch]

The return is screwed to the wall and the end of the vine with 3" screws.  After the vine dries a bit it will be easier to sand off the hairs I think and Sassy will sand and finish it with polyurethane.

Hey, it was strong enough for Tarzan and Jane.....

[MountainDon]

If a person had a lot of time, great foresight, they could bend a younf tree/vine to the desired shape and let nature build the required shape.   

[glenn kangiser]

Or even more -- a friend sent me an e-mail with this in it - I found a link to it online.

http://www.funonthenet.in/forums/index.php?topic=158902.0

Living root bridges of India and Japan.

[Texas Tornado]

In Bonsai we have learned to bend trees/branches with wire and electrical tape 
We can bend the snot out of them and remember they are still living trees...

[glenn kangiser]

Hmmm .... I once bent my brothers arm, but my dad slapped me up the side of the head so I had to let it go back..... [ouch]


Just kidding... I would not do that to my brother.... besides ... he did it to me first.... 

No really... just kidding...

...but Texas Tornado, don't you also bind the little trees feet and do other sorts of cruel and unusual things to it in Bonsai also? 

[Texas Tornado]

Hmmm .... I once bent my brothers arm, but my dad slapped me up the side of the head so I had to let it go back..... [ouch]


Just kidding... I would not do that to my brother.... besides ... he did it to me first.... 

No really... just kidding...

...but Texas Tornado, don't you also bind the little trees feet and do other sorts of cruel and unusual things to it in Bonsai also? 

We use wire to shape the branches and remove them when the branches set....Bonsai trees are treated better than any yard tree  and can live thousands of years  . Their care is an Art in and of itself...

[ben2go]

Here are the two sites I rely on the most.


http://forums.bonsaisite.com/

http://www.bonsaisite.com/index.html

[glenn kangiser]

Gee... thanks, Tornado and Ben.  You just never know what you will learn about next here.

Since we are already talking about it, feel free to share a pix here of your twisted little tree if you like.... I'm not exactly a topic purist...

[ben2go]

You're welcome.I haven't started my Bonsai yet.As with everything I do,I researched it for a while before deciding to make an attempt at it.

[Texas Tornado]

This shows what I do 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EhjYz7jLzQ&feature=player_embedded

[ben2go]

Those are nice.Someday I'll have the time and patients to groom one that well.

[glenn kangiser]

Cool, TT, looks like fun,  thanks.

We got our new solar panels from Sunelec but when looking at my roof I was thinking that I just didn't have a good spot to put them.

After a bit of thought I decided that a pole structure at the entrance to my shop was the answer.  Many times I kick this stuff around in my head for years before I finally settle on a solution that combines two or three needs and solves them.  [idea]

I looked through my remaining poles and did not have enough, but a friend a few miles up the road brought back hundreds of them last winter when work was slow.  I called him and he said $1.25 per foot and said he could do it cheaper for me but I reminded him that he had a lot of hours in piciking them up and the price was good for me.

Actually the reason I wanted the poles was for a pole barn for the steer and hay before this place turns into a mud hole on the mountain this winter, but the panels were a more pressing issue so the solar roof got done first.

I picked up the poles last Sunday (1 1/2 weeks ago.)  I finished the 12x30 pole structure for the solar panels Monday and mounted the panels yesterday and today.



The two tallest poles are set in holes -- the near one 3' deep (rocks and clay) and the far one 2' deep (rocks and clay to solid fractured rock at the bottom).  Digging time for the two holes was about 8 hours with a pick, jackhammer, shovel and post hole diggers.  No big power tool here because my water line was around 2 feet below but I was not sure exactly where.  

I poured a bit of concrete around the 2' deep one to keep it tight in the hole.  Needless to say, I did not oversize the holes much.  I tamped the poles in with the digging bar.



I used scrap sheeting to cover the roof -- 3x6 bridge timbers for joists and 2x4s flat for purlins.  I needed the 24' clear span for turning the forklift when putting big or heavy things into the right side of the shop, so a post in the center was not an option.  Big end of the pole is about 15" - small end about 14"

The two shorter poles are set on steel stakes driven in a few feet with the jackhammer ...5/8 or 3/4 rebar with about 8" sticking up into a hole drilled into the bottom of the pole.  The poles are set on a few inches of heavy slate rock around the rebar as a base and moisture barrier.  All of the heavy framing is nailed together with 60d pole barn spikes using my palm nailer.  Pole tops were notched to fit the sides of the poles.

[Redoverfarm]

I can't believe a previous well driller and welder could not find his own water line with a couple brazing rods.   Don't worry about the steer he has his waterproof coat on.

[glenn kangiser]

[ouch]  'fraid they would burn me at the stake, John..

I'm not as worried about the steer as I am about me.... that is going to be a sloppy mess and I was thinking if I fed him inside I could rescue my fertilizer easier besides needing a place to keep the hay dry.  I guess a tarp would do though.   Shhhhh .... besides ... it's an excuse for another building I need here. 

[glenn kangiser]

After completing the roof it was time to get the solar panels mounted.  I was out of good frame material so decided to mount them to 10 foot 2x4's I had left over from fence building.  I cut angles from some light guage angle I had left over from another job and secured the panels to the angle with 3/4 x 10  self drilling screws.

I screwed the angle to the 2x4 with a #12x2" self drilling screw - mounting time was about 3 minutes per angle.  I put a single self driller through the 2x4 to the single frame angle at the ends.



The panels were about 5' x 3'2" so three of them took up most of the ten foot 2x4 length.  I left about 3 inches out each end for fastening.  I set the 2x4 frames at 4 foot centers under the panels so that I could fasten them on top of the high rib on the roof sheeting - they are on 1' centers.  By keeping the 2x4s on top of the high ribs they should get minimal water staying under them from capillary action, so they should dry and last a long time even though they are untreated.

Here is one assembled and ready to go on the roof.



The Sunelec 190 watt panels may not be UL listed but they did meet the specs as described.  I took voltage and short circuit amp readings when I opened them.  Laying in the back of the Bush Hog in full sun they were very close to spec.  The only thing I could see to make them grade B was that the edges of the solar cells had minor cosmetic chips around the edges.  All still met spec.  I'm happy.  Electrical wire was rated 600 to 1000v- I'm running them at about 100 nominal - measured was 93 when attached to the regulator - We got a bit over 7KWH today out of 1140 watts of panels mounted on a 4/12 pitch roof facing slightly SW.  I have made the stationary mounts to where it is easy for me to tilt them up in the winter if I want a better angle for the winter sun.

I am running these on the Morningstar Tri Star MPPT controller.  A couple cool things about it - It has a special setting for L16 batteries and it Equalizes the L16s every 14 days automatically if you set the dip switches for auto equalize.  It equalizes the L16's up to 32 volts which is exactly what they need to keep them up where they should be.  That agrees with what another solar expert told me about the L16s.

[glenn kangiser]

Fence party this morning. [ouch]

Some friends from the church Sassy goes to are dropping by and we are going to get a major portion of the fence for the cows in... the part where it is almost too steep to stand up on, then on down to the bottom.  Sassy and I located the last corner a couple days ago.  It was about 3 inches from where we measured out 400 feet to, from a known corner marker.  Pretty good if I say so myself.

I have traded them some labor with the Bobcat and will likely trade some more in the near future but at least we will all get a few things done that would be hard to accomplish otherwise.

[glenn kangiser]

Got about 900 feet of fence nearly done.  Nice to have help who are actually interested in helping as neighbors or for barter.  

I'll have to get some pix of my super quick corner and end bracing system - invented by me .....as far as I know...

Back to the solar - time to hoist the panels to the roof.  I used straps wrapped around the center of the assembly them took my remote with me up the ladder after the panels were nearly in place - easy to fine tune the landing that way.



The pitch of the roof - 4/12 while not terribly steep was still slippery being metal, so I put a temporary screw into one corner of the top of the 2x4 frame from the ladder.  This kept it from sliding down out of place but still allowed me to adjust the bottom sideways to center the frame on the high ribs.



Safety of course was important as it was about 10 feet down to the rose bushes and about 16 to 18 feet down to the bottom of the slope where I would land if I bounced off of the rose bushes.  I didn't harness up but tied some mule tape to the ladder to hang on to....



This left me with one problem.... OK - plenty of problems but one I was concerned about.  A sliding mass of snow ripping the power wires from the panels as they ran horizontally across the space between the two sets.

Got another 7 KWH yesterday from the new panels.

[ScottA]

Can you drill a little hole under each pannel and slip the wire under the tin? Looks like you're powering up pretty good by now. Planning on selling juice to the neighborhood?

[Proud_Poppa]

A piece of plastic conduit clamped across the roof up hill of the panels where the wood strips protrude. Big enough to get wire/connectors through with half moon holes cut on the down hill side for the feed to each panel. You "could" do it more professional like and install T's at each panel with strain relief fittings and all.....but then it wouldn't have much "character"!   

[glenn kangiser]

Thanks for the ideas, guys. 

Both good ideas but I'm pretty lazy so I came up with a lazy man fix.  Forgot to take a pix of it though.  I screwed 3  2x4's across the space to hold the snow and the wires there until the snow melted.  That way I can push the top snow off the panels and the top of the space with a broom but keep the space with the snow containing my wires in place to melt rather than ripping the wires out. 

I think taking them out under the panels would have been a good way to do it then just the horizontal wires crossing would have to go through the roof - 4 places, but lazy and fast won out so there are now 2x4's across the space. [ouch]

[Proud_Poppa]

Well...after about 10 pages of this thread I ordered Mike Oehler's book from Amazon<dot>com. When it came in I was busy with some other stuff....so I opened the box and pulled out the book and set it down. I was somewhat surprised when my wife came over and picked it up and started reading....and KEPT it for a couple hours. But when she said...."I think he's right....dirt floors WOULD be better than concrete" you could have knocked me over with a feather!! Today, we were out looking at some property (5 acres with a pond, a garage with shop on the end, and a habitable trailer for $49K) with the idea of living in the trailer while we build a house. We were out back looking over the land (beautiful rolling hills down to the pond in the exact center of the property) when she started pointing out good places for an underground home!!! I don't know what's gotten in to her....but I hope it keeps it up!!! 

[glenn kangiser]

That is so cool, Proud Poppa.  Where area are you in?  Your wife is very wise...

Hopefully not a big building permit area, but in an area where the God given rights to shelter your family free of parasitic intervention is tolerated it is a great way to go.  I like the fact that Mike hired an engineer for his design tables to make it safe for people building his underground houses. 

Re: the dirt floors. We found the cob to be the best of the dirt surface floors, finished with 4 coats of linseed oil to make a type of linoleum surface,  I think Mikes dirt carpet floor could be good but my wife doesn't like carpet that well.  We finally settled on the CBRI light duty concrete floor - like about 1/2 inch thick stucco over the dirt for a durable,easily cleanable floor that is still more giving than concrete.  For a sealer now we are pretty well set on Polyurethane - either water base for low initial odor or oil base - high odor for a bit then gone, but tougher.

I found a pix I took of the snow stops and it shows where I drove a sharp punch through the sheets to round the edges and prevent wire damage but allow the wires to be put through without a grommet, then after the connectors were through I put a nice gob of silicone rubber to prevent wear.


Forgot I took it.  I am up here in the boonies and the proper parts are miles away or online ordered.  Not available to just grab and do.



Obviously a first class job.  [ouch]

Underneath I put a fuse holder as a disconnect - It is a bit low  voltage for the purpose but I figured it was better than nothing and there is nothing to make it go over current anyway as far as I can figure - the panels will handle a short circuit condition and limit their own current without blowing the proper rated fuse the way I see it.  The solar controller has all of the safeties built into it anyway.  I put an automotive fuse in the battery line which is within the range of the voltage needed - just not per code if it applied here...


Note I found that there is a size of automotive bullet connector - male and female - that will plug right into the MC4 plugs avoiding cutting the end off and voiding the warranty.  You guessed it - MC4 cables are not available here and were out of stock - and expensive that last time I ordered.  Note that Sunelec had sold out all of the 190 watt panels already as of yesterday or earlier.  Glad I got mine.



A real beauty, eh....

[ben2go]

Sweet set up Glenn.