Author Topic: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier  (Read 5357 times)

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Offline Don_P

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2018, 05:36:26 PM »
I didn't read the entire article but I did get to the point I was looking for, a failure a friend had. We call that approach flash and batt. The insulation contractor was hired to do both the sprayfoam and the batt insulation. He had said he would spray one day and batt the next. My friend came to work the next day and said the insulation guys had done it all in one day. This didn't allow him to check their foam work. Then we made the fatal mistake. We assumed they had done a proper job and installed the T&G ceiling that weekend. Several weeks later they moved in and trouble began. Water drops began appearing at the lower edge of the T&G. He removed a couple of the lower boards and the batts were wet. The ceiling had to come down, the batts and then check the foam. Yup, they had skimped horribly and then quickly covered their work. The inside face of the foam was below dew point and it condensed moisture then dripped through the batts. It took some arm twisting to get the insulation contractor to do the right thing, sort of. He came back out and resprayed the ceiling. We insisted David take the day off and babysit them. Sure enough in private conversation his employee had been given different instructions than what was agreed upon and didn't know better, he did after that although they are no longer in business, small towns are not the place to do that. So yes I do agree with that part of the article, pay attention to your zone and be there, absolutely be there, with your straightend coathanger with tape at the agreed upon depth and thump their work often with it. If you can't afford to take a day off to be there I'd say you can't afford to risk it, go all foam.

I think that was a rant  :D

Offline NathanS

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2018, 05:38:38 PM »
I am not too familiar with rescheck, I wound up doing everything in excel. What an impact air tightness has... not to mention the importance of thermal bridging from studs and windows. U-factor is a better measure but I guess builders don't like decimals.

I would think the assembly R-value of the flash+batt would be around 40, just batt around 35, and batt+2" of XPS 45 - cheaper than flash+batt but more work and time. The flash+batt would also be air tight. Ceiling air tightness is critical because of buoyant hot air.


I have not had a good experience with Andersen windows. I have at least one that leaks some how, and when I pulled it to figure out what was going on, I leaned it upside down and water poured out of the miter joints. One of the few benefits of how slowly I've been building is that I've gotten to stair at rough sills for close to 2 years now.

Offline NathanS

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2018, 05:42:06 PM »
Don also makes a good point, if the foam is going to be the condensing surface (relying on it for your air barrier) keep a close eye on the spray foamers. 4" of foam should be adequate.

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2018, 08:56:54 AM »
So yes I do agree with that part of the article, pay attention to your zone and be there, absolutely be there, with your straightend coathanger with tape at the agreed upon depth and thump their work often with it. If you can't afford to take a day off to be there I'd say you can't afford to risk it, go all foam.

I think that was a rant  :D
Thanks.  I would definitely take the day off and be there when they do it. 

The problem with being an owner-builder contracting out part of the work is the contractors know you won't be a repeat customer.  But for this work, I would use a contractor that does regular work for this company: https://begreenny.com/  I know both owners well (ironically through completely different circumstances) and would let the contractor know that's how he got picked, so hopefully he would have a good incentive to it right.  But, as they say, trust but verify. 

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2018, 09:11:48 AM »
I am not too familiar with rescheck, I wound up doing everything in excel. What an impact air tightness has... not to mention the importance of thermal bridging from studs and windows. U-factor is a better measure but I guess builders don't like decimals.

I am pretty sure that rescheck is a U-factor calculation.  It more or less does the calculation for you, without excel.  You enter in the dimensions and types of the surfaces/windows, the U-values of the insulation and the doors/windows, and whether you have continuous coverage (e.g. with external XPS, etc.) to negate thermal bridging.  According to this link passing in rescheck allows you to not follow prescriptive insulation requirements in NYS.  Although of course you would still want to follow prescriptive elements where they relate to condensation.


I would think the assembly R-value of the flash+batt would be around 40, just batt around 35, and batt+2" of XPS 45 - cheaper than flash+batt but more work and time. The flash+batt would also be air tight. Ceiling air tightness is critical because of buoyant hot air.

I wouldn't be able to fit R-35 of batt into the 2x12 rafters, especially with the air channel, which is why I looked at the closed cell foam.   I calculated that the closed cell foam would be about $16.15 per "R" for 100 SF (installed), whereas the batts are $2.50 - $3.50 per "R" for 100 SF (I would install these myself).  So opportunity for substantial savings.  Since it would be drying to the interior, would that mean I would use unfaced batts?

I have not had a good experience with Andersen windows. I have at least one that leaks some how, and when I pulled it to figure out what was going on, I leaned it upside down and water poured out of the miter joints. One of the few benefits of how slowly I've been building is that I've gotten to stair at rough sills for close to 2 years now.

Deciding on the windows has taken up way too much time, and you never know what you will get.  I was comparing Pella, but it just seems like Andersen had more exactly what I was looking for.  On line reviews are worthless since many of the complaints you read are probably due to poor installation.  I doubt that was the problem with yours looking at your build.

Offline NathanS

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2018, 10:22:33 AM »
I had the exact same experience with windows, I just got sick of it. At one point I remember reading about hardware breaking within a few months on triple pane ($$$$) windows and just ran out of steam. You are spot on with reviews too, it is so hard to tell what is real anymore... the layers of marketing on the internet is something else.

The most noticeable issue with the windows is they have a ton of side to side play - probably 3/8-1/2". It is so bad that on some of the windows the springs will come loose when you open them. Also, the smaller windows will sag crooked when opened. The material the 100s are made from is rigid and not something that can be shimmed out.

Anyway, I am trying to stop this from turning into a full blown rant but believe me, I have a long list of what is wrong with the windows, and that company, that I wouldn't wish on anyone spending thousands of dollars.

One of my neighbors down the road is a retired log home builder and carpenter. After I told him all the problems I've had, he told me he had quality issues with them too, and that Marvin makes a better product. Might be worth looking at those, I wish someone told me that before I bought mine.

I don't think the kraft facing would hurt anything as it still allows a lot of water vapor to pass through it. You could also then staple the paper to the rafters so that it stays up, otherwise you have to use those long metal pin things to hold them up. I have no regrets using rock wool - that would stay up by friction alone.


Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2018, 10:41:31 AM »
Do you have the 100s or the 200s?  For the double hungs, I was planning on the 200s.  Same with the slider door.

Offline NathanS

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2018, 10:55:56 AM »
100s, which are single hung.

For doors I just bought the in-stock stuff at Lowes, which the quality seems fine for what they are. I think the 100 sliders were like $1100 a piece. Eep.

I was more upset when this all first happened because even though they are 'budget' windows, $5800 was still a lot of money. I think they will do fine for 10 years or so. I did install all the trim and around the windows with screws and made everything easily removable. Some day I'd like to make all the windows myself.

Offline GaryT

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2018, 07:41:08 AM »
I have installed many Marvin windows over the years - both replacement and new construction; they are top shelf.  And you do pay for that quality.
Gary

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2018, 10:55:36 AM »
Got all the wood for the roof except the ridge beam (coming this week).



Moved that pile (plus one more) of 5/8" sheathing into the cabin.  That was as hard as I was expecting it to be, but still glad I went with that thickness.  So about 1/3 the way to the roof (second third is up to the loft, last third is out onto the rafters).  But I figure that first step means I can get it up there eventually.

I will have to recruit some folks to help get the ridge beam up there.  I was looking into getting the guy who worked on my basement to load it up there with a material lift, but he must  be too busy and I don't want to pay the "too busy" surcharge to get him out there.  The lumber yard did drop off the 9.25" LVL that I am putting up as a "shelf" to brace the front wall.  That is 22' but they sent me a 25' (must have figured no sense chopping of 3').  I easily carried that myself into the basement for storage.  So I figured each ply of the beam, each of which is only 70% more mass, could be handled by a 3-4 man crew with a block and tackle.  We'll find out.  In the meantime, I double checked that everything was level and ready to go for the beam - it was (the column cap will be moved over a tad - I was mainly checking levelness).  It checked out with the laser level, too.


Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2018, 06:10:37 AM »
Making progress on the cabin if not on updating my build thread (which is the correct order of priorities  :) )

Got the ridge beam up with the help of three friends.  The beam was two 14" wide LVLs, each 28' long.  Couldn't have gotten those up without help.  We slid one end up to the loft, and rested it on some blocking or headers.  Then used a rope and two pulleys to raise up the front gable end.  Each required one final push to get them over the notches and the Simpson Bracket on the post.  Glad to get that part done.







All ready for the rafters.  Got most of the main ones up; was fortunate to have another friend help with that (one of us on each end of the 16' 2x12's).   Now working on the lookouts, then will do the roof sheathing.



The tarpage you see on the left is where the shed dormer goes on that side.  Going to build the dormers after I  get the sheathing out there, feeding out through these "dormer gaps".

You can also see in that last photo the sideways LVL "shelf" I installed across the front gable for added wind support.

So you all are looking, anybody have any resources I can peruse for planning the lighting for the cabin.  I will have the electricity coming in soon.  If I like the electrician doing that, I plan on asking for a quote for the rest of the wiring (I know lots of you do 100% of the construction, but I plan to sub out the electrical, plumbing, heating, and the roofing; day job and other commitments are just too busy).  If I do that I need to get him a scope of work to bid on.

If I google "cabin lighting" I get all sorts of stuff for millionaire's big bucks ski chalets with deer antler chandeliers and stuff which isn't what I am looking for.  So if any have some pictures of lighting you've installed for smaller scale cathedral ceilings and rooms with exposed beam/joists, let me know.

I  am actually in someone else's cabin right now and I like their lighting on the cathedral ceiling - indirect with the light going down the sides. 



I'll have a flat section like that at the top once I put in my collar ties.  Might be a pain in the but to change bulbs, though.

My wife was thinking  of just going with lamps, but that takes up floor and end table space.  But who knows

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2018, 06:22:35 AM »
OK, making progress but not posting much.  It was great taking that one week vacation in that other cabin with the light picture I posted above, but it took some time away from building.

I am trying to get to full dry-in and am getting close.  Cutting to the chase, I have most of the roof sheeting up and have started on the dormers:







After I got the rafters up as described in my last post, it seemed (to some at least, not really to me) that I should be getting the sheeting up right away (friends at work would ask each Monday, "got the roof up?").  But I knew the porch rafters and the barge rafters/lookouts would take some time.

The lookouts took a whole weekend.  The back wasn't so hard since they were shorter and I had the (temp) loft floor to stand on.  I actually built most of them first and then installed them into place (luckily my wife came to check out progress late Saturday since that was definitely a two person job).  The front one was much trickier as I had to build that in place, high up, and without a floor to stand on.  Technically it is not done since I need to face nail the barge rafters onto the lookouts (they are just temporarily connected now via toe-nailed screws) as there was no way I could get to the other side of those rafters until I get my deck made.  Pics:

Back:



Front:



Then I had the ends of these barge rafters to detail, which I did in conjunction with putting up the porch rafters.  I took this shot showing just how complicated that gets:



That's the front corner on the porch side.  That's before I added more straps tying the porch rafters to the main rafters, making them parallel to the porch rafter.  that is Four straps, plus structural screws in the the top, some nails, and then the "blocking structure" I put between each rafter.  Normally you would block with a 2x8 or something, but because the porch rafters meet higher up on the main rafter (I did that so that each roof plane is exactly 12 feet, simplifying sheathing, and allowing a full 4/12 pitch to the porch roof) this would have been 20" tall of solid blocking.  So I built a square of blocking to which I will nail 20"x22.5" OSB on the outside.  I left 2" gap at the top for the air channel for the cold roof.

Getting the 5/8" sheathing up to the rood wasn't nearly as hard as I was expecting.  I had tried getting one up to the loft before just after hoofing all 46 sheets into the cabin for storage under the tarps.  However, I think all that hoofing was why I had nothing left to move them any higher.  Once I was fresh, I could easily push them up a ladder to the loft, then slide them out the dormer holes.

Next steps are to finish the dormers and then getting the foam insulation on the sides so I can get the windows in.  Then do the front deck so I can finish sheathing that wall and get the windows/doors in there, too.  Then I'll be dried in. (yeah, I have to zip tape the walls, too; keep putting that off).

A few questions for the experts out there:

  • Exterior foam:  Still trying to decide between the polyiso and the extruded PS.  The XPS gives me enough R value to meet rescheck, but doesn't come in 1.5" widths.  The polyiso comes in 1.5" and has higher R value but costs more.  But may save costs since I will have flexibility piecing it together with two layers of 1.5" rather than one layer of 1" and one layer of 2".  I.e. left-over scraps from the first layer could be used as needed on the second layer.  Any thoughts?
  • Suggestions on how to hold the boards on prior to screwing in the furring strips?  I see Nathan's second-hand boards came with some nailing retainers already attached.  I won't have those.  Do I just put some temporary nails or screws so long as I put the furring strips up right away afterwards?
  • I suppose I could do some of my own research on this, but it is customary or necessary to tape together the foam boards?  I've seen both on my cursory investigations.  The underlying Zip panels will be taped, so I already have an air barrier.
  • Nathan: I saw you spent a lot of time evaluating loads from falling snow onto your mudroom roof.  I have a small (2'-3') drop from the dormer onto the porch.
     I wasn't planning on doubling up the rafters under there, but I still could I suppose.  Here's an earlier picture from when I was still installing the porch rafters.  Could sister those up with additional supports under the left side since I don't have the sheathing up there yet.  Not sure if that's worth it or not.
  • IN that last pic, you can see I still don't have the last rows of decking on the porch floor.  That is because I haven't figured out how to bend the PVC flashing that I bought on Don_P's recommendation (note, good recommendation!)  I don't have a metal brake.  Would putting together a die like Nathan used for his aluminum flashing, and pulling it though that work?  I suppose I should just try (always lots to do), but wondering if there are any other suggestions.  I would need three bends since the flashing would start on the wall, go over the ledger board (two bends) and then extend under the decking so another bend to bring it horizontal on the joists.
  • I like having a walk out basement, but don't like the expanses of parged-over block, so I would like to extend the siding over them.  The front part is easy, but I don't know about the sides.  The north side will be covered by the porch, so that isn't an issue.  But the south side is exposed.  Earlier pic: .  Since I will be applying exterior foam onto this wall, I will want to extend that and the furring down to all the areas where I will side over the blocks, so I need to decide now where I will do that.
     My question is whether it is possible to do a diagonal bottom edge of the siding.  I plan on using some sort of lap siding on, possibly LP smart side.  I have never seen such siding end diagonally, always stair step. I suppose there is a reason for that.  Is that my only option?

That's it for now.  Back to work.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 06:46:05 AM by SouthernTier »

Offline NathanS

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2018, 06:12:30 AM »
It's looking good. You will have it winter ready for sure. The issue that starts to creep up at the time of the year is the dew. I remember finishing our roofing and only having 2-3 hours of dew free time on the north side of the roof per day. That was late October. I actually didn't get the mudroom roof done sometime well into November.


My opinions on some of your questions -

One thing about polyiso is that it derates in cold weather. In 0F it might not give you much more R-value (if any) than XPS.

Curtis Lumber had 1.5" XPS. Their prices were a lot worse on foam board than the Lowes generic, though. They price matched for us since we bought so much.

You are going to need some kind of temporary washer to hold the insulation up. Even those plastic roofing nail washers would probably hold until you get the furring up. I feel like I've seen people use those before.

I did not tape my insulation. My water and air barrier were the zip. I think it's redundant to tape the insulation if you already did the zip.

The snow on the mudroom roof thing... my drop is further than yours  - close to 6'. It is also over a living space. You could probably try calculating a worst case scenario and see if the rafters are at risk of breaking. I erred on the side of caution. A couple more rafters were cheap and it really wasn't much labor.

For the diagonal on the siding, I don't see any issue there either. That's how all gable ends finish. If the angle is too steep for a miter saw you can make a circular saw jig by screwing two boards together to make an X at the proper angle. That is how I did all of my gables.

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2018, 06:44:15 AM »
Holy smokes, Nathan your reply is dated September 23 and here it is October 9.  Sorry I did not pass along my thanks for your in put earlier.  Been extremely hectic but making good progress racing the end of the season.  Got just about all the roof panels on.  Here are the latest pics I have, but I've done more since then:





I've actually got the dormers pretty much done now, and yes, made progress on the tape on the walls, too.

As I mentioned above, I an chickening out about putting on the roof metal (fall danger),  and more importantly I want it done right as after the foundation, a good roof is probably the most important thing.

I am talking with contractors now.  I had been thinking of putting in the air channel just below the OSB/Zip (well more than thinking, that is the plan) and then nailing the steel right to the OSB.  One contractor I've talked with said he would recommend putting down purlins over the OSB, and applying some sort of "bubble wrap" insulation between them.

It seems to me this wouldn't make much sense if I am going with the vent channels under the OSB.  It would just be insulating something I am trying to keep cold. 

Any thoughts?   Would it make sense to do this rather than the air channel. 

I have to admit, I wasn't really planning on using purlins.  But if I ask the opinions of the pros, I don't want to dismiss either.

Offline Don_P

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2018, 03:19:01 PM »
That is not your roofer. You should put tarpaper or some form of slip sheet under the metal, it works with temp swings. I believe in sealing the roof to the deck using the precut foam seals from the supplier. I consider what you've done so far more dangerous than the metal, and you will be up there siding after. A ridge hook and ladder moving ahead of the metal and then on it with rags duct taped to rub points at the end sheets and when you are siding. But, if something doesn't feel good don't do it.

I usually run a "faker" rooflet across the lower end of the dormer, it ties it in better in my eye. This shot shows one and how I do it. Scrap ply cut to the shape forms a rigid shape, I then nail 2x to that to give nailers. Premade on the ground. There is a 2x4 cutout bottom rear so they just sit on a 2x4 ledger on the wall and the rest of the back has a flatways 2x4 to provide wall attachment.



Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2018, 03:28:20 PM »
Thanks Don. 

I didn't think it made much sense to put purlins on the deck if I have an air channel underneath it.  If that is what he wants to do, then I will pass on him.

He suggested 100% ice shield too which seemed excessive if I have the air channel.  Was going to just go with one row on the porch-less side, and maybe two rows from above the pitch break to below the wall on the porch side.

Was definitely thinking of putting in a faker like that, too.  Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

Yeah, siding those dormer walls....  ???

Offline NathanS

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2018, 02:49:36 AM »
I agree with Don.

Just about everything that roofer wants to do is wrong. Also, there are no circumstances that I can think of where bubble foil is not a complete waste of money. A radiant barrier requires an air gap, it stops working if it gets dusty, and the air bubbles are not as good as insulation.

I wish I had bought scaffolding to run the length of the eave on my house. It would have made everything go a lot faster.

I liked doing our metal roof, and I am not a fan of heights. You do get comfortable up there, and it is not hard to put a metal roof on the right way. ABC roofing has awesome installation manuals. A harness is a necessity, and always keep the slack tight enough that if you slide you don't go over the edge and dangle.

Offline Don_P

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2018, 04:05:40 PM »
With black timberlock screws you can run a 2x8 or better horizontal off the gable wall at some height convenient below the eaves and extended out 3' or so. Run a 2x post down at the outboard end and put a cleat on the post under the 2x8. Do the same out the window and off the far end. Between them attach a block to the wall into a stud and make a couple more supports. screw X bracing across several poles. Screw planks down and you are scaffolded. If the end posts extend up they can form a guard and curb.

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2018, 03:16:48 AM »
Thanks Don.  Good suggestion.  I recall Chugach Tinkerer doing something similar for his roof sheathing.

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2018, 11:17:27 AM »
I've been busy as usual, so haven't been updating much, but here is the latest.  I actually got an opportunity for a new day job which I took.  That means I will have less time to work on the cabin and will have to sub some stuff out, but I am getting close to getting dried in.

I have a love/hate relationship with dormers.  These took way longer than I expected them because they are so complicated, even though they are just shed dormers.  That is the hate part.  But I really enjoyed the intellectual challenge of figuring out how to build these.  I think they came out great.  Here is the "easier" one (the south side).  The north side was harder because it had a main roof pitch break along the sides since the porch rook started higher than the dormer.



I just framed the side walls with 2x4s because of my design to not have to cut lengthwise any of the roofing panels.  Since I will have ceiling spray foamed, I will get these side walls foamed as well to get sufficient insulation.  The wall with the window will get the same 6"batt + 3" exterior foam board.

Speaking of which, I have a question.  Here you see the other side of that wall with and without the foam board:





Question:  I put the foam board up here first because I was thinking that the metal roof flashing for that wall to the roof would go on there.  However, now I am not so sure.  Since the foam boards aren't taped, but the Zip panels behind them are, perhaps the metal roof flashing should go zip panel-to-zip panel?  Opinions?  If I flash to the surface of the foam boards, water running down the rain screen will still get directed out, but any that gets behind the foam would have nowhere to go.  I will have all seams between foam boards covered with furring strips, and I suppose I could tape these boards as well, but would be interested in hearing your opinions.

Don:  You can see I implemented your advice on the short "fake wall"  Thank you very much for that suggestion:



Started the deck.  I need that done to get the rest of the sheathing up on the front gable.  Not to mention the windows and doors there.



One last shot of the north side:



I didn't have much luck getting other roofers to take a look at this project, and I am running out of season (it already snowed once).  I might end up going with that roofer I mentioned earlier, but without the bubble wrap since that makes no sense for a cold roof.  I have talked with them some more and have gotten good references.  But they really say that the purlins (with the air gap underneath) is the way to go.  I have heard others say they do things similiarly around here.  The cost for the purlins is negligable in the total price, so I may just go with that unless you know of any reasons not to put them there.  They are warrantying the roof, so I don't want to instruct them to do anything besides what they normally do and risk voiding the warranty.

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2018, 12:51:14 PM »
Some updates.  Pictures first.







As I mentioned in the last post, I hired out the roof installation, mostly because of running out of time and not trusting myself to get this done right.  As you can see, racing the weather.  Some more snow is in the forecast next week, and they have been good about getting out there when the weather allows. 

I will be focusing on finishing the deck so I can the last panels up on the front gable.  I was hoping to do that last weekend, but I had to return the generator and while the power was supposed to energized, it wasn't.  You can see the panel on the front of the basement.  Hopefully next week I can plug into this.  That will be nice.

After thinking about the flashing issue for the dormers, I had decided that I would need to remove the foam and have the roofers flash to the zip panel underneath, but when the weather had an opening, they dashed out there before I had a chance to talk to them (which overall is a good thing because of the weather - if we delayed the roof may not have gone on at all this fall which would have led to bigger problems).  Since the dormers are small, I plan to tape up all the seals along the polyiso panels, including at the top.

But I have a question on installing the windows where I had exterior foam (note, only doing exterior foam on the side walls in order to pass rescheck).  I was planning on installing 1x6's around the bucks so that that flange of the windows was installed along the same plane as the furring strips.  However, the more I think about that, it could be a problem.  Even if I flash the top of the 1x6, it would still allow a pathway for any water that got behind the foam panels to potentially work its way between the 1x6 and the buck, and only the buck would be fully flashed to the wall. I suppose I could flash the backside of the 1x6, installing it before I put the foam up, but that would be hard.

Opinions?  I can still remove those two 1x6 frames I have around the dormer windows before I put the windows in there.

Separate question:  the "design for code compliance" guide for decks (https://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standards/publications/dca/AWC-DCA62012-DeckGuide-1405.pdf) says that diagonal braces only go out the out-most posts, and are actually prohibited for the posts in the middle.  Does anyone know the reason for this? 

Offline NathanS

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2018, 01:57:11 PM »
The roof looks nice, I'm sure it's a relief to have that done. Based on October and November (so far) it seems like it's gonna be a damn cold winter.

If I understand the window question right, it sounds like ideally you would have brought the window buck extensions out another 3/4" installed the windows, flashed everything, then butt the 1x6 up against that?

If it was me, I would remove the 1x6, cut the foam back a bit, (edit, forgot the most important bit, extend the jamb 3/4") install the window, tape the window flange to the window extension, the tape extending all the way back and connecting to the zip wall, then I'd put the foam and furring strips back on.

On the dormers since I think you're talking about making the foam the water barrier, you could remove the 1x6, install the window, tape the flange to the foam.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 02:41:47 PM by NathanS »

Offline akwoodchuck

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2018, 02:32:28 PM »

Separate question:  the "design for code compliance" guide for decks (https://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standards/publications/dca/AWC-DCA62012-DeckGuide-1405.pdf) says that diagonal braces only go out the out-most posts, and are actually prohibited for the posts in the middle.  Does anyone know the reason for this?

This is what I found on it...(which I also call b.s. on) :
https://www.structuremag.org/?p=11302
Quote
Diagonal bracing can contribute to the stiffness of the deck and, therefore, cause additional lateral loads on the posts. Since center posts receive more vertical load than corner posts, additional lateral load can cause overstress. For this reason, DCA 6 does not show the use of diagonal bracing on center posts.
"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."

Offline SouthernTier

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2018, 02:41:59 PM »
The roof looks nice, I'm sure it's a relief to have that done. Based on October and November (so far) it seems like it's gonna be a damn cold winter.

Agree.  Another artifact of me doing the build this year.   I posted earlier how the town I am building in got more rain this summer than any other in Western NY (by a full inch!).  And then yesterday, the newspaper ran the story "Winter shows up ahead of schedule"

If I understand the window question right, it sounds like ideally you would have brought the window buck extensions out another 3/4" installed the windows, flashed everything, then butt the 1x6 up against that?

Not quite.  The 1x6 is (currently for the dormer) attached straight to the bucks.  That is the 3/4" extension.  I was going to install the window on that.  But I've changed my mind based on my thinking today.

If it was me, I would remove the 1x6, cut the foam back a bit, install the window, tape the window flange to the window extension, the tape extending all the way back and connecting to the zip wall, then I'd put the foam and furring strips back on.

This is what I'll do.  I only have to take the second of two 1.5" foam layers off, since the tape along the buck already extends about 1.5" from the wall.  That should be easy to do.

On the dormers since I think you're talking about making the foam the water barrier, you could remove the 1x6, install the window, tape the flange to the foam.

For the dormers, I will probably do both.  First extend the tape on the buck to the flange, then after reinstalling the top layer of foam, add another layer of tape connecting to the foam.

I was just concerned about the windows being too recessed, but that really isn't a problem.  I know yours are recessed about 3 inches. 

Offline NathanS

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Re: 22 x 28 in Western New York's Southern Tier
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2018, 03:38:13 PM »
Recessed windows does mean jamb extensions...

after I posted I tried to edit - what about extending the jamb out an extra .75".  You'd be glad when it is time to do siding that you don't have to do the jamb extensions.

This was a pretty terrible year weather-wise. We were getting snow on April 30th.. I was hoping it would balance out with a decent fall, but as soon as Oct 1 came we went straight from the 60s to the 40s.

And it has been unbelievably wet over here too. Our fields are like a swamp, but as of today it's been so cold I think it's starting to freeze up..

 

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