Author Topic: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)  (Read 93747 times)

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Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #150 on: April 26, 2016, 12:23:09 PM »
Right.  I am reluctant to install insulation in the floor before the bldg is dried in. We experienced way too much rain between laying the subfloor and having the roof dry.

I will have to agree with MountainDon on insulating at this early stage.  Advantech is a great product but it is not waterproof.  I had it at my cabin exposed for 8 months with snow laying on it part of the time.  Water did leak into the basement at the seams onto the underlying joist and cavity where the insulation would normally be put.   Water will devastate your insulation and it's R value when it is wet and compressed.  Yes you can tarp it but once the first wall is erected there is no way to seal the floor off.  Then subsequent walls and it is useless. 

Offline rich2Vermont

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #151 on: April 26, 2016, 02:14:15 PM »
I too have to agree about the insulation. See my build: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9422.msg135580#msg135580 .

Offline nailit69

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #152 on: April 26, 2016, 02:31:24 PM »
Ya... it's just not a good idea to insulate that early in the game.  There's no real reason to do it unless it won't be accessible later.  I would only insulate any cavities that won't be able to be done later.  I would also try and avoid situations that will create unaccessible/uninsulated spaces during the framing process like not using "C-channels" (2x6/2x4/2x6) on exterior wall ties or interior walls for that matter... I use a "California Corner" L (2x6/2x6 on Ext. 2x4/2x6 on Int.) to nail other walls to, it provides adequate nailing, allows full access behind and it saves a few studs here and there.

When I lived in Oregon, during the summer they would plumb, install hvac, and insulate before subfloor.  Great idea in theory but after a summer storm necessitated the removal of all the insulation and flexible insulated ductwork from under the floor in 5 or 6 houses that were under construction, that practice was halted. 

I also wouldn't put any plastic sheeting/vapor barrier on the floors or walls either... a lot of those homes that were sealed up with plastic in the 80' are the ones that i'm constantly going in and repairing extensive rot and black mold... just a bad idea, it traps moisture and causes problems and I rarely, if ever see it on a home without poly.  I wouldn't do it on my own place but if the customer insists, well then...! 

A house needs to breathe a little bit... I'd do Tyvek with Vycor and tin flashing on the windows, sprayfoam around the windows and any penetrations and then insulate the hell out of it.  And then apply the siding of your choice.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 03:13:41 PM by nailit69 »

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #153 on: April 26, 2016, 02:49:20 PM »
nailit69...could you please explain the 'California Corner'.
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Offline nailit69

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #154 on: April 26, 2016, 03:19:01 PM »
nailit69...could you please explain the 'California Corner'.

It's just an L... for an exterior wall where an interior intersects and ties in just nail an L together and set the flat 2x6 behind the intersecting wall with the other 2x6 to the side, it provides backing on both sides and leaves access from one side.  For an interior wall tie use a 2x4 and nail it to the edge of the 2x6 and you get the same result... works in most situations but not all... adjust accordingly.

That's also how you tie your corners together, maybe watch a couple of youtube vids for some tips... framing isn't really that hard once you understand it.

Offline azgreg

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Offline nailit69

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #156 on: April 26, 2016, 03:26:01 PM »
@AzGreg... Exactly ;)

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #157 on: April 26, 2016, 04:06:17 PM »
I got it! I plan to use 2x4 walls.
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Offline MountainDon

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #158 on: April 26, 2016, 06:19:32 PM »
2x4 walls.

? why?  much more energy efficient with 2x6?  Stay cooler in the OK summers
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Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #159 on: April 27, 2016, 02:11:32 PM »
As Don suggested above, I do believe that I will go ahead and go with the 2x6's for my build. I will also wait
to insulate the floor until I have the roof on.

A little update about the way I covered my beams using those 'spare' plywood sheets, it worked out great.
They kept the rain off of the beam and even kept a lot of the piers dry.

I'm going to start bracing each pier with two 4x4's (one on each side) at a 45 degree angle from the bottom
of each pier up the the underside of the beam. I'm going to be looking around here to see how most people
attach these. Do I simply nail them in place?
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Offline Don_P

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #160 on: April 27, 2016, 06:07:31 PM »
If you're like most people you do. One engineering professor said that a typical kneebrace was something to knock you unconscious as the deck collapses. They are compression members, they are resisting the sideways load of the structure above when the wind hits it. Think about that, a nail isn't going to resist much more than about 100 lbs. Lock them in opposed and solid.

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #161 on: April 27, 2016, 06:35:44 PM »
I think you posted this in the past Don. This would be a great way to do my
bracing right? The main thing I think of is to remove as little material from the
4x4 post (each side) as possible.

What is the best way to make a cut like that in the 4x4's?

« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 03:41:55 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline Don_P

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #162 on: April 28, 2016, 02:11:18 AM »
That's one way, I had forgotten posting that. I've done that in 6x6 using a skillsaw on each side and across the bottom then sawzall and chisel to clean it up. When meeting from both sides "sneak up" on the line, you can always remove more but you can't remove less. The "table"is usually ~1" wide but you're in a pickle with a 4x4... it might be better to figure out how to use heavy inturned ear hangers on the post and drive the block in between at the beam last. Very often heavy timber work is sized by how much meat you need to leave after doing the joinery.

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #163 on: April 28, 2016, 07:35:28 AM »
Using this hardware would be good for my bracing...correct?

« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 03:43:01 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline Don_P

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #164 on: April 28, 2016, 06:52:04 PM »
I was thinking something along the lines of an HUC44 or similar concealed flange hanger.

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #165 on: April 29, 2016, 06:49:02 AM »
Friday - April 29th, 2016

Thanks Don,

I can't figure out how the HUC44 can accept a 4x4 angular brace because this flange hanger is
at a 90 degree...unless the ends of the brace are cut at the two angles needed to rest within the
hanger?



« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 03:43:49 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #166 on: April 29, 2016, 02:47:39 PM »
Friday - April 29th, 2016

I drew a little drawing of what I'm thinking might work for my bracing:

« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 03:44:33 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline Don_P

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #167 on: April 29, 2016, 03:17:31 PM »
The 2x4's are fine if they go to the concrete... or the 4x4 can run to the concrete for that matter. Yes on the hanger, make a level seat cut and a plumb post cut.

Stronger than the steel plates or hangers, plywood triangles covering the entire brace, post, beam and nailed very well. It becomes the rigid brace, the wood is keeping the large plywood triangle from buckling under load.

Offline Adam Roby

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #168 on: April 29, 2016, 03:30:56 PM »
If you run the braces down to the cement, then the other ends might be worth while touching, like this.



Then you can make plywood connections to connect everything together, something like this.


Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #169 on: April 29, 2016, 03:55:41 PM »
Hey Adam, that really sounds like a plan... Thank you!
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Offline Don_P

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #170 on: April 29, 2016, 04:03:49 PM »
Do make those plumb and level cuts on the framing though, jam together bearing surfaces rather than crushable points. I was actually thinking of ply covering post, beam and braces in one triangle but this works if well nailed. You're into treated ply... $ and watch the quality, be picky.

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #171 on: April 29, 2016, 06:42:39 PM »
I like the idea of putting plywood within the whole triangular area. The picture above makes me
think that water and moisture could get down into those 'plywood cups' (even though it's under
the house). Also, knowing that makes me realize that it could cost a lot more money using the
treated plywood. I may just use the 2x4 to the concrete method.
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Offline MountainDon

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #172 on: April 29, 2016, 06:51:12 PM »
I like the idea of putting plywood within the whole triangular area.

Just to be clear, the plywood would be nailed over the face of the pier, beam and angled brace.


This is similar to the remedial or post construction work I did on our piers. Each gable end had a wall built between the piers. Framed with short studs on 16" centers and sheathed fully on both sides.  Then on the long sides the same technique was built between each end and second pier.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline Adam Roby

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #173 on: April 30, 2016, 02:40:39 AM »
You're right, I thought about that later on also... I've never done this before so it was just an idea.  For sure I would go for a plan that one of the more experienced builders have used in the past. 

I wonder if you can do a kind of truss system with 2x4's... Maybe ask Medeek if something could apply here.   :)

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #174 on: April 30, 2016, 07:19:10 AM »
Saturday - April 30th, 2016

I've begun to do my bracing. I don't own a table saw so my cuts on those 4x4's are done
with my circular saw, not an easy task. I'm not sure how I'm going to gusset these braces
just yet. My choices for gusset material are treated 2x4's or 3/8" untreated plywood. Almost
all of my gussets will be more than 18" off of the ground so maybe I can get away with untreated
stuff.

Also, some piers are really tall and I don't want to go all the way down to the concrete with the
braces at most places so therefore I'll make little level cuts at the bottoms of the braces where
I'll try to get them to rest on the 2x4 that'll be nailed to the inside of the piers.

Here's a video and a pic:



« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 03:45:38 PM by ajbremer »
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