Author Topic: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)  (Read 92790 times)

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Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #200 on: May 05, 2016, 05:15:04 AM »
Thanks Don, I'm glad to know that I only have to brace the end posts from beam to beam.
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Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #201 on: May 05, 2016, 09:53:26 AM »
Thursday - May 5th, 2016

Continuing with the gusset over the angular braces on my beam 1. Got the
front finished and part of the back:



« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 03:52:28 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #202 on: May 05, 2016, 02:15:27 PM »
Thursday - May 5th, 2016

I emailed the Quikrete company a question about the concrete cracking in one of my piers and
asked them what I can do about it.

My 4x4 is almost 3 feet in the ground and the tube sticks out around a foot or so. I first poured
concrete (Quikrete) on top of gravel and around the post in the hole for around 6 to 8 inches and
then I placed the tube on top of that and poured the rest of the concrete to the top of the tube.

Here is a pic of the crack and below it is what the engineer from Quikrete emailed me. Check out
the link to a video showing how to use the product he suggests:



Allan,

You will need to go to Home Depot and order our Crack-Pac kit from the Pro Desk.
Please watch the attached video from our website to aid you in your instillation.
Brian Foster

Here's the video:

« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 03:53:29 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline Adam Roby

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #203 on: May 05, 2016, 04:25:23 PM »
Worth a try I guess if its not too pricey...

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #204 on: May 05, 2016, 04:32:10 PM »
I looked on Amazon and the injection kit was around $100+. The standard 9oz thingy is around $26.00. I'll
betcha there's probably other cheaper epoxys...don't know yet.
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Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #205 on: May 06, 2016, 01:56:55 PM »
Friday - May 6th, 2016

Beam 1 is all done. Here's a pic of the back side, one of my circular saw fix, and then a video:





« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 03:54:20 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #206 on: May 07, 2016, 04:42:47 PM »
Saturday - May 7th, 2016

Got some bracing done on beam 2:

« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 04:00:14 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline pmichelsen

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #207 on: May 08, 2016, 05:53:28 AM »
Looks like a good start, do you plan to go back through and add additional nails/screws? Right now your plywood panels look a little light on fasteners.

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #208 on: May 08, 2016, 02:43:50 PM »
Thanks pmichelsen!

Your right, I'm purposely using just a few fasteners (nails and screws) at this time until I have all the
plywood on and then I'm going back through it all and finishing it up. Thank you again for reminding
me because there has been times when I did that and forgot for awhile.
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Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #209 on: May 08, 2016, 03:53:38 PM »
Sunday - May 8th, 2016

Worked on finishing the bracing on beam 2 and then begun the plywood gussets:







« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 04:01:56 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #210 on: May 10, 2016, 05:23:05 AM »
Tuesday Morning - May 10th, 2016

I was wondering about the adherence of concrete to wood so I replied to an email that an engineer at the Quikrete company
sent me. I just did it a few minutes ago and will await his response but in the mean time - here is the email question that I sent
him. If anyone else has any information about this subject I would sure appreciate it. Here's the email:


Tuesday Morning - May 10th, 2016

Hi Christopher,

You just sent me an email in reply to a question I had.

I'm wondering about the adherence of quikrete (concrete) to a 4x4 post. Has any testing ever been done in this area revealing the force in pounds that it would take to 'push' a post through a cylinder of concrete (Quik Form Tube)?

The scenario of the test would be something like this:

Take 3 feet of a 12" Quik Form Tube, set it on a flat surface, center a 4x4 treated post that is 6 feet tall in it, fill it with Quikrete (or concrete) and let it cure. Now the only thing holding the post within the concrete is the adhesion to the side walls of the wood.

Now the test:

Set the concrete (with the post sticking out of it) on top of a tall steel cylinder with a hollow 4" diameter hole through it. Now a press begins to push down on the top of the 4x4 post (axial compression) until something fails. Does the 4x4 post snap, does the concrete crack, or does the post eventually just slip right through the cylinder of concrete at a certain pounds per linear foot?

I would be great if there was any information at all about this scenario or anything close to it.

I appreciate it Chris!
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Offline MountainDon

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #211 on: May 10, 2016, 05:48:09 AM »
The reply may be interesting, but in the real world it should not matter. That's because the pier should have the lower end resting on a concrete footing that is reinforced with rebar. Usual minimum size 16 x 16 x 8 inches. That pad or lump is placed / poured and let to cure before construction advances.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #212 on: May 10, 2016, 08:54:40 AM »
Tuesday - May 10th, 2016

Got a little more done with beam 2, the plywood gussets are at the halfway point of finishing. Then
after that it's on to the end brace walls which will brace one beam to the other.





« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 04:03:17 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline Don_P

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #213 on: May 10, 2016, 04:24:01 PM »
There is no adhesion, the dimension of the wood varies with moisture content where the concrete hole does not change size. After the post swells and cracks the concrete it is free to "punch through" if there is insufficient footing. The concrete collar is simply a firm backfill that increases the effective size of the post in the lateral load directions, it should not be considered a bearing for vertical load.

Hold off building the cross brace walls. Layout the floor joists and see if you can get those near the end posts to line up at the posts. Then you can notch and frame the studs to that joist and run the ply onto the joist which is nailed to the floor diaphragm (the advantek) you are putting both planes together on the same member with no other connections in between, better.


Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #214 on: May 10, 2016, 06:08:41 PM »
Here is a diagram that I drew that shows how most of my pier holes were done. The drawing is
not proportional and the dimensions are fairly close. The first few pier holes I did had 8 bags of
concrete in them and after the first 3 or so I went down to 4 to 5 bags. I now realize that the
concrete is only stabelizing lateral movement.

As most of you know, this is not the way to do it and this is the wrong way. The posts
should not have been IN the concrete but ON the concrete, I was ignorant, in a hurry, and didn't know
what I was doing. I still don't know a lot but am trying my best and thanking you all for your
patience.

My soil is not just clay down deep in the hole but there is sand in it too which helps a little more. So
each post has a small bearing surface of only 3 1/2 x 3 1/2 on top of gravel at hole bottom.

I'm thinking that I can help the bearing of the beam at each post by attaching vertical 2x4's to the posts
down to the concrete on each side of each post. Would that help? or at this point should I just go with what I got?

« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 04:04:06 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline bayview

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #215 on: May 10, 2016, 07:47:30 PM »

The concrete around one post is already cracking . . .    Setting vertical 2X4’s directly on the concrete may only be a temporary solution.   Additional weight from the cabin and its contents may still try to push the post through the gravel.  The top of the concrete will then bear the total load from the 2X4's.   Is the top of the concrete strong enough? Can it withstand the weight without damage?   

I know that you have gone through a lot of work to get to this point.   And, I’m sorry that I don’t have an easy solution for you.   

/.
    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #216 on: May 10, 2016, 07:55:40 PM »
Thank you bayview, very good points sir.
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Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #217 on: May 11, 2016, 05:38:54 AM »
Wednesday - May 11th, 2016

One idea that I have is to create 2 more beams and make them the rim joists. The new beams would
be 2' away from the original beams and they will have 4 piers each 6'8" away from each other using
4x6 posts placed on top of a concrete footing. Each beam will be made up of 2 2x8's with 1/2" plywood
in the middle.

I would first dig the holes and pour the concrete footings (with rebar) and then install all of the floor
joists and then attach the rim joist beams to the ends of the floor joists. Lastly I would cut the posts
to length and then place them into position causing all 4 beams to be touching all floor joists.

Here's the example drawing:

« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 04:05:17 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline Redoverfarm

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #218 on: May 11, 2016, 06:00:58 AM »
Wednesday - May 11th, 2016

One idea that I have is to create 2 more beams and make them the rim joists. The new beams would
be 2' away from the original beams and they will have 4 piers each 6'8" away from each other using
4x6 posts placed on top of a concrete footing. Each beam will be made up of 2 2x8's with 1/2" plywood
in the middle.

I would first dig the holes and pour the concrete footings (with rebar) and then install all of the floor
joists and then attach the rim joist beams to the ends of the floor joists. Lastly I would cut the posts
to length and then place them into position causing all 4 beams to be touching all floor joists.

Here's the example drawing:



AL if you are intent on following through might I suggest that you build all the support post and beams and then place your joist on them.  It would be a lot less aggravation than trying to individually fit each post.  You most likely will use a Simpson fastener for the transition from concrete to wood.  After placing the fastener into the concrete just cut your post long enough to reach the top of the existing beams while sitting into that bracket.  Using a "straight" 2X floor joist(laid on edge) you can lay it across your existing beams and mark a line on the post at the bottom of that joist where it intersects the post.  Then from that line measure down the correct width of the 2X8 ( 7-1/4") and mark.  This will be your final cut line that the beam rest upon.   

Yeah you do cut the post twice ( one rough & one final) but chances are you will not use the entire length of the 4X4 anyway since you will not be going to the bottom of your sonotube.  You can remove the post from the bracket which you just temporarily braced and cut the post off while on a set of saw horses or while horizontal using the square and circular saw method better than trying to cut in the vertical position as you once did and ultimately getting a better cut. 
 

Offline Adam Roby

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #219 on: May 11, 2016, 01:35:42 PM »
I think the additional posts are a good idea, and it would remove some of the doubt you may have had about the cantilevered joists.
As long as you are going this route, I would also make the bottom of the hole has a large diameter, so the 6" or 8" of footing would have more bearing surface and thus be less prone to sinking later.  Then you sonotubes can be the regular diameter sitting on top of those footings. 

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #220 on: May 11, 2016, 02:02:32 PM »
Wednesday - May 11th, 2016

Thank you for helping me redoverfarm and Adam!

My footings will be large at the bottom of the hole and belled outward down there.

Here is a video of a few choices I have as far as the post base holders:



And here is a video of my rebar and rebar tools:

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Offline bayview

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #221 on: May 11, 2016, 03:53:35 PM »
Just a thought . . .

Why not just add two more footings on each of the "new" beams.   For a total of 6 per side . . .    Just as you originally planned.   Abandon the previous work already done and use those materials for your new beams . . .

Your new beams may work out better anyway.   You previously had a 2 foot cantilever using the "old" beams.

/.
    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #222 on: May 12, 2016, 06:49:50 AM »
Thursday - May 12th, 2016

Here is how I plan to do my pier foundation.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 04:06:25 PM by ajbremer »
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Offline azgreg

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #223 on: May 12, 2016, 02:32:15 PM »
So, are you abandoning the existing piers all together?

Offline ajbremer

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Re: 14x24 on 5 Acres in Mounds, Oklahoma (2nd CountryPlan Build)
« Reply #224 on: May 12, 2016, 02:44:21 PM »
Hi again azgreg!

No, I am not abandoning my existing work. I will be laying my floor joists on all 4 beams.
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