Refrigeration Question

[MountainDon]

You may or may not be aware that the common household refrigerator is designed to work best within a relatively narrow temperature range, something like 60 to 100 degrees. I've known for some time that a refrigerator in a cold place, like a porch or garage in the winter time was a bad idea. The unit does not run efficiently in colder environments and may even have trouble keeping food cold enough or be unable to keep food in the freezer frozen cold enough.

However, I've never been able to find information on propane or kerosene fueled refrigerator operation in cold environments. The propane refrigerator "experts" I've asked did not know. I have a feeling that maybe the propane units do not have this cold weather performance issue, but do not want to run an experiment with a refrigerator that cost $1200 to purchase.

Anyone have any idea?

[Redoverfarm]

Don I will let you know next year.   .  I haven't installed mine yet but a friend that has a cabin on top of the mountain not far from mine has left his runnning year round for the last 10-12 years without any adverse affect.  He vacates his cabin from Dec to  Mar with no heat.  I know it is harder on them to turn off and on rather than just let them run.

[MountainDon]

.... left his runnning year round for the last 10-12 years without any adverse affect. 

That was my gut feeling with a propane fueled refrigerator.

Do you know if food left in the freezer section stays well frozen?

[Squirl]

Don, do you know of any studies of how much more electricity a freezer uses in a warm environment over a cold one?

[MountainDon]

I've just barely scratched the surface on this. I had been told long ago that operating an electric home refrigerator on cold environments was a bad idea.

I have learned that not only is the typical home refrigerator more inefficient at lower ambient temperatures, but because the lubricants in the system are not dispersed as well the life can be shortened. Temperatures of the system components also can rise and cause breakdown of the lubricants. Commercial refrigeration, like at the supermarket, are different. They have the compressors on the roof top as a rule and they operate in all temperatures. They are equipped with "head pressure control" devices.

Here's some reading for the curious
http://www.achrnews.com/Articles/Feature_Article/f4052f455f75a010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0____
http://www.legacychillers.com/cms_data/uploads/Sporlan-90-198.pdf

[MountainDon]

There's also some information in this thread at another forum.
http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums/4906_120/alternative-energy/making-the-best-of-electric-heat

See page 4 about 2/5 the way down by a poster known as NedReck.

[Brian_G]

The problem with refrigerators and most refrigerant based appliances in the cold is their refrigerant pressures and temperatures. Secondary to that is the lack of lubrication of the components due to thicker oil (not as much of an issue with the newer synthetic oils). On a home refrigerator you use a compressor to make the process of refrigeration work, where as with a propane fired frige you are using heat/flame to warm a refrigerant (ammonia or other) to create this affect. There are no mechanical parts to fail but you will IMO still find some of the same inefficiencies in a propane unit as it is being worked out side its normal design parameters of temperature and pressure.

[Brian_G]

Have you considered a simple screened pvc pipe fitting into the freezer and refrigerator  areas with a thermostat that would turn on a 12 volt pancake fan when the outdoor temperatures were cold enough and the refrigerator or freezer needed cooling. I am taking a small fan like the one used to vent the hydrogen out of solar battery boxes and maybe a 1" - 1 1/" PVC pipe. Even if it ran continually in the colder weather the amperage draw on a solar array/battery system would be minimal.

This is one of the projects we have planned for our cabin when we get to that stage of the build, the control circuit is pretty simple and i would be more than happy to make a diagram of it if you think it would help you.

[lobster]

You may or may not be aware that the common household refrigerator is designed to work best within a relatively narrow temperature range, something like 60 to 100 degrees. I've known for some time that a refrigerator in a cold place, like a porch or garage in the winter time was a bad idea. The unit does not run efficiently in colder environments and may even have trouble keeping food cold enough or be unable to keep food in the freezer frozen cold enough.

Sears (probably others) sells electric "garage refrigerators" specifically for use in areas that are not temperature controlled. They have a heater in the fridge compartment to keep it above freezing if the outside ambient temp is below freezing.

This style fridge is probably designed to overcome many of the problems just mentioned for ordinary refrigerators, such as inefficiency, lack of oil lubrication, etc.

[Brian_G]

You may or may not be aware that the common household refrigerator is designed to work best within a relatively narrow temperature range, something like 60 to 100 degrees. I've known for some time that a refrigerator in a cold place, like a porch or garage in the winter time was a bad idea. The unit does not run efficiently in colder environments and may even have trouble keeping food cold enough or be unable to keep food in the freezer frozen cold enough.

Sears (probably others) sells electric "garage refrigerators" specifically for use in areas that are not temperature controlled. They have a heater in the fridge compartment to keep it above freezing if the outside ambient temp is below freezing.

This style fridge is probably designed to overcome many of the problems just mentioned for ordinary refrigerators, such as inefficiency, lack of oil lubrication, etc.

You are correct one of the main items they add to them is to add a crank case heating element that keeps the temperature of the refrigerant and the oil up. The same way a heat pump can be run in sub 0 temperatures but all manufacturers recommend you not run an a/c in lower than 50 degree temperatures

[fishing_guy]

We run a 1960's maytag fridge in our garage year around in Minnesota.  It works wonderful.  In the summer the beer is cold and in the winter it keeps the beer from freezing.  I have heard that the newer ones are not made to work in that environment.  I don't know about the electrical draw though.

[Redoverfarm]

.... left his runnning year round for the last 10-12 years without any adverse affect. 

That was my gut feeling with a propane fueled refrigerator.

Do you know if food left in the freezer section stays well frozen?

Don I am not real sure if it stays frozen in his absence but he has never complained or mentioned any problems.  I have checked early in the spring before he arrives to make sure it is still working and what ever the contents is still frozen.

[UK4X4]

Most modern appliances are spec'd on working in normal household temps, but as a manufacturer
and to pass certain energy star etc regulations

They have to publish their technicalspecs..........sears won't have them, and usually you'll have to rumage deep into the manufacturers websites

Operating temperature is the spec your looking for- normally a range from X to X

Not the storage temps.

The base models - RV and 12V offroad vehicle fridges are probably your best bet

Not the super duper cool door, no frost computer controlled versions.

[MountainDon]

Sears does have the low environmental temp models. Most are freezerless. I also found one listed at Lowes.com. It was a freezer and fridge type. They do have heaters for the cold. IIRC they were good down to 10 F. The Lowes one is around a thousand.

[Shawn B]

We have a refrigerator/freezer and a upright freezer in our unheated, but insulated garage. They have been there for years no problems. There just basic model Amana and Kenmore units. The temp range in the garage varies from -10F to 100F. No problems. Also had a old GM model fridge/freezer that set on our deck, with the back of the unit set back into the garage. It was a 1954-56 model that was given to us in the 70's and ran for 25-30 years.

[Alan Gage]

I house sat for some people all last winter so left my house unheated with the refrigerator plugged in. I use virtually no electricity and figured my electricity bill would hit an all time low with nothing but the refrigerator running for 3 months, especially considering the house was unheated so the fridge wouldn't have to work very hard. I was very surprised to find it was actually a little higher than normal. I have no idea what the temps were inside the fridge/freezer.

Alan