Glenn

you just touched on one of the two main problems I have with a rosy eyed report that we are reforesting the world...

One is that we are losing our old forest growth trees that are hundred and hundreds of years old for new trees....No way a 500 year old tree can be replaced in 50 years....the new tree does not absorb as much pollution or make as much oxygen for us to breathe either.

The other problem I have is that a lot of the re-forestation are actually tree plantations or tree farms.....Where a diverse and unique balance of trees and plants are lost and one specific type of tree replaces them....Technically it is forest...But to other plants, insects and animals it is devastating to the ecology to lose everything and get just one type of plant in return.....and that is what is happening in many parts of the world where we are planting trees.... We are only planting the trees that have the absolute most economic value.....

I think we can overcome both of these issues easily by making sure that what is left of the worlds old forest growth is protected and never hewn upon....And making sure that part of all reforestation projects get all the natural types of trees and pants back into the forest for all the animals and environment...

I am happy that in parts of the world at least they are at least planting trees...That is a good start to a working solution.....It is amazing with all the complex problems of the world...this one is easily solved by getting dirty and planting trees....No high tech research needed....Get out there and plant trees....The rest of it will take care of itself...

Imagine if the USA, China, Russia spent one year of nuke research money on tree planting.....Bam! all the forestation issues would be a thing of the past...

I live across the Rio Grande from Albuquerque. They're giving away 5000 trees for property owners tomorrow.

http://www.cabq.gov/sustainability/green-goals/trees/5-000-tree-giveaway

Trees are vital to arid parts of the world....Drought resistant trees absorb rainwater that would just rin off the dry clay like soil in arid regions.. It keeps the water table up...Prevents erosion...Reduces winds...

For all the scientists out there trying to save the damned world...we can do as much as all the scientists combined by just planting trees

Good story and link...Nice to see that Albequerque gets it...and is working hard to clean itself up....

Here's another article on Global Warming - true or not?  Some scientific arguments...

http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/56/7135/mercer.asp?wid=56&nid=7135

And from a totally different point of view--something very like this has happened before:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article1480669.ece

The author's blog:

http://www.marklynas.org/

And his conclusion, from the timesonline piece:

QuoteRED ALERT

If global warming continues at the current rate, we could be facing extinction. So what exactly is going to happen as the Earth heats up? Here is a degree-by-degree guide

1c Increase

Ice-free sea absorbs ?more heat and accelerates global warming; fresh water lost from a third of the world's surface; low-lying coastlines flooded

2c Increase

Europeans dying of heatstroke; forests ravaged by fire; stressed plants beginning to emit carbon rather than absorbing it; a third of all species face extinction

3c Increase

Carbon release from vegetation and soils ?speeds global warming; death of the Amazon rainforest; super-hurricanes hit coastal cities; starvation in Africa

4c Increase

Runaway thaw of permafrost makes global warming unstoppable; much of Britain made uninhabitable by severe flooding; Mediterranean region abandoned

5c Increase

Methane from ocean floor accelerates global warming; ice gone from both poles; humans migrate in search of food and try vainly to live like animals off the land

6c Increase

Life on Earth ends with apocalyptic storms, flash floods, hydrogen sulphide gas and methane fireballs racing across the globe with the power of atomic bombs; only fungi survive

Chance of avoiding six degrees of global warming: zero if the rise passes five degrees, by which time all feedbacks will be running out of control

The article is scary, Amanda... Lynas has done a lot of research - so how do we get China & Mexico & some of the other countries to cut down on the greenhouse gases?  

When we used to go to Mexico the air was so terrible in the towns - the cars spewed out the most obnoxious pollution - & per that article I posted - the transport trucks from Mexico, that aren't required to have the same standards as those in the US will now be driving through California to the tune of thousands of trucks a day... that article said it would be like adding 2.2 million cars to the # already on the road every day...  so that we can have cheap products...  :-/

Sassy

Yes the older cars and trucks are nasty...They will go away as they wear out...Automobiles is a small part of this problem...Coal is the major one..

Worldwide Coal is the Number one source for electricity...If there exists viable technologies for trapping the carbon released when the coal is burned...That technology is not being used...

There is a rush world wide to build as many old low tech coal fired plants as possible right now with the thinking that they will be grandfathered in when the world comes to a consensus on what restrictions there needs to be on all electricity generation worldwide.

India and China will enter into the international community and there will be strict pollution guidelines world wide...

Taking the Military budget of the top powers in the world and planting trees would solve 90% of the problem.... Yes we need to use cleaner fuels...Yes we need to find ways to conserve energy and reduce the amount of fuel we need... But planting trees is a guaranteed way to reduce carbon levels worldwide.

One thing that the scientists fail to mention when they are trying to scare us to death is that the population in Europe, Canada, America is getting smaller...North America and Europe rely on Immigration from Asia and South America to maintain their population levels...The population growth rate has also slowed dramatically in China and in India...They are still growing but not nearly so quickly as 20 years ago...

What I mean to say is that there is a stabilizing of world population...meaning that eventually it will start to slowly reduce.... This is great news for the planet...As less people and slower growth means less pollution. It also means the huge demand for power will wane... Allowing green technologies to catch up and be implimented...

The last decade has seen such huge growth for the need of electricity that they just started to build coal plants worldwide with reckless abandon... When the worlds demand for electricity wanes we can make smarter choices as to how we replace old existing power plants and how we design and build new ones.

For all the gloom doom and scare tactics...We can have this well in hand in a decade with smart decisions...

Interestingly leaders in the People's Republic of China are paying increasing attention to their country's severe environmental problems. In March 1998, the State Environmental Protection Administration (SEPA) was officially upgraded to a ministry-level agency. This reflects the growing importance China's Government places on environmental protection. In recent years, the PRC has strengthened their environmental legislation and made some progress in stemming environmental deterioration. Beijing in particular is investing heavily in pollution control as part of its campaign to host a successful Olympiad in 2008.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/chinaenv.html

And, to add to Amanda's scary post, more gloom doom and scare tactics.
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36963

I read that about China a week or two ago Jonesy.  Good reason for them to look into pollution as all of our manufacturing and jobs go over there.  Of course we don't work that cheap and without jobs can't afford to pay more anyway.  Note that I have no quarrel with China or buying from them - just with our pollys and corporations for selling us out so the elite can make even more.  Most investors don't receive a great benefit.

In a little local NW news, the new premier of British Columbia was expected to push for offshore oil drilling but instead has made a green turnaround and met with the governor of CA to plan a big infrastructure project to put in hydrogen fueling stations from San Diego to Whistler, BC. I guess this would allow you to drive your hydrogen car to the 2010 winter Olympics.  

The interesting thing is that these are both considered to be conservative politicians!

Personally, I don't think hydrogen will make it too far into the future as a transportation fuel, but.... This is a much better "make work" project than building military hardware!  

John

I like Hydrogen...But for it to work...We need better batteries and we need more advancements in Clean Coal...

If we have abundant electricity...Then everyone who owns their own home can hook a water hose into a small gizmo twice the size of a toaster that spearates the hydrogen from water...And you can fuel up your hydrogen car at home...For pennies a day

Cheap abundant electricity is the key...And for the electricity to be generated without killing the environment we need clean coal...True capturing of the carbon emissions...Not some pie in the sky

There are several ways for the hydrogen car to go...There is the fuel cell...there is the electric car... and then there is just a hydrogen car that burns hydrogen

I like all/any of the above and I think that a hydrogen electric hybrid will be very popular.... Battery technology needs to increase the storage capacity and recharge rates for batteries... But this combo would allow you to fuel up at either an electrical outlet or a hydrogen filling receptacle... So when Travelling you would have 2 options on how to fill up...

We have uber coal....And I am all for using it cleanly to produce electricity if the electricity is used to power electric cars... hybrid cars.... hydrogen cars and electric hydrogen cars.....This reduces the amount of oil we consume... import.. burn...And it makes a huge difference for the world...The less we use oil the more demand goes down...The less emissions worldwide....

The trick is going to be to get the world to use clean coal technologies...So that this cheap abundant energy source is clean....and we can make real advances in the environment... There is little to no net gain if we burn nasty dirty coal to generate electricty for electric cars....We substitute the pollution from burning oil and gas by burning the coal...Carbon and pollutants still get released into the atmosphere.

Someone posted a great article about burning waste in Landfills to create syngas to generate electricity....Innovative ways to generate clean electricity such as this will allow the Hydrogen economy to flourish...

Solar panel technology is important too... We are making better windmills to generate electricity and they are harnessing the energy of waves from oceans...But cheap efficient solar panels means that every homeowner in the world could have a solar panel...Meaning they generate part of their own or all of their own electricity needs... Meaning that they can generate their own Hydrogen for their cars or charge up their electric Hybrids...

Creating a massive influx of cheap abundant clean energy

And as for china....There is a massive green push there....Their economy in 20 years will be cleaner than ours.... They are making money in China and are a model of progress and efficiency...Growth there is 10% or more annually.... Their workforce is highlky motivated and educated...When they get green and turn their waste into energy they will become more efficient....From their garbage to their sewage they will be recycling it all in the next decade...

Then America will truly have no excuse not to enter into treaties that curb emissions like Kyoto

The rest of the world is already working on a new Kyoto like treaty that has more stringent restrictions on emissions..Kyoto expires in 2011 or 2012 I think...

Unless major changes have been made, current hydrogen technology that is being actively pursued is hydrogen being produced from oil, and is just another oil company swindle.  Current cost for a hydrogen capable car is over $1,000,000

://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.08/fuelcellcars.html



from http://www.pluginamerica.com/whyev.shtml

Some info on the plan - I haven't read it yet.

http://www.hydrogenhighway.ca.gov/vision/vision.pdf

I went looking online to buy one - these cars are available in 2006 - 2007 if I read that right.  I didn't find one for sale yet.  If someone does please post it.

Found this 2018 per Honda.  Looks like another reason for gov to squander our money.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/03/is-84-000-for-a-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicle-reasonable/

I have seen small time inventors and back yard tinkerers get a lot farther than gov.

One commenter mentioned it may be Yen instead of dollars but can't be as 84000 yen is $719 per a converter.

California Fuel Cell Partnership list Oil companies who combined have partnered with or own nearly all the rest of the oil companies.  Chevron bought up the patent rights to the electric car batteries that made them feasible and killed them.

http://www.cafcp.org/about_members.html

http://stationaryfuelcells.org/

QuoteThe Prophet of Garbage
Joseph Longo's Plasma Converter turns our most vile and toxic trash into clean energy—and promises to make a relic of the landfill


http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/873aae7bf86c0110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

I posted this under the heding "The Prophet of Garbage" but I guess that wasn't a catchy title - here it is again - sounds like a plan to me, although the prototype converter took 20 yrs of research & tinkering & millions $$ - but now it could be duplicated much easier...

Here's a link I posted elsewhere on electricity from the ocean waves
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-wave11mar11,0,2922563.story

Peter - the US has lots of coal, also - but how does mining it affect the environment, not to mention the miners themselves & the dangers (ie Russia's lastest coal mining disaster)?

Key to the Oil Companies:

QuoteHydrogen-rich fuels. FCVs can also be fueled with hydrogen-rich fuels, such as methanol, natural gas, petroleum distillates, or even gasoline. These fuels must be passed through onboard "reformers" that extract pure hydrogen from the fuel for use in the fuel cell. Reforming does emit some carbon dioxide (CO2), but much less than gasoline engines do.

The fuels mentioned above contain enough hydrogen to allow FCVs to travel the same distance as a conventional vehicle on a single tank of gas; about 300 to 400 miles. Also, unlike hydrogen gas, liquid fuels like methanol and gasoline wouldn't require a completely new system for delivering fuel to consumers.

Although there are advantages to powering FCVs with these fuels, there are also several disadvantages.

   * Onboard reformers add to the complexity, cost, and maintenance demands of a vehicle's fuel cell system.
   * If the reformer allows carbon oxides to reach the fuel cell anode, it can gradually decrease the performance of the cell.
   * Reformers produce small amounts of greenhouse gases and other air pollutants.

It is not yet clear which method of fueling fuel cells will prevail. Research and development continues for all of these fueling options.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fcv_fuels.shtml

EXPERIMENTAL WEATHER MODIFICATION BILL ON FAST TRACK  (article from 2006)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s109-517 S. 517 [109th]: Weather Modification Research and Development Policy Authorization Act of 2005

"U.S. Senate Bill 517 and U.S. House Bill 2995, a bill that would allow experimental weather modification by artificial methods and implement a national weather modification policy, does not include agriculture or public oversight, is on the "fast track" to be passed early in 2006.

"This bill is designed to implement experimental weather modification. The appointed Board of Directors established by this bill does not include any agricultural, water, EPA, or public representatives, and has no provisions for Congressional, State, County, or public oversight of their actions or expenditures.

"Trimethyl Aluminum (TMA) and barium are just two of the toxic chemicals used in recent atmospheric heating and testing programs according to NASA. The Alaska H.A.A.R.P. atmospheric heating program may have the capability of changing the Jet Stream which could also change our weather."

CONTRAILS: KILLING US SOFTLY?

"Over time, I met Rosalind Peterson, who has been doing the hard research on this issue; her credentials here. Rosalind's research has gone far and above what most people can imagine. One of the most important presentations she made during our meeting at the State Capitol in Sacramento, California (details here) were the water tables showing the spikes in aluminum and barium, and the FAA fly over sheets for the Mendocino area. Even the nit wit at Rep. Neillo's office was surprised when Rosalind presented these documents which clearly showed military and civilian plane patterns; color ink is used to designate which is military and which are civilian planes, private or commercial. Neillo's aide could clearly see was one set of fly overs were unidentified. These fly over patterns are silly when you look at them. They go crisscross and in circles and then simply fly off into the sunset. No one can tell you why this crazy fly over pattern on a specific day or who these planes belong to and unfortunately, Neillo's aide simply refused to look into the matter. He arrogantly told me the contrails in Sacramento that I observed from my house only three miles from the airport were from commercial jets. Of course, it makes perfect sense that 2-4 commercial jet liners like Delta or United, would take off from the Sacramento airport at the same time, fly north and south and then east and west for 3-4 hours and then head for Philly or Boston. Now, why didn't I think of that!"

Here's another article on weather manipulation - A Doctor Speaks Out About Chemtrails http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=21473

Global warming editing as approved by the Bush administration and big oil.

http://environment.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn11417&print=true

Quote from: Sassy on March 20, 2007, 05:16:09 PM
EXPERIMENTAL WEATHER MODIFICATION BILL ON FAST TRACK  (article from 2006)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s109-517 S. 517 [109th]: Weather Modification Research and Development Policy Authorization Act of 2005

"U.S. Senate Bill 517 and U.S. House Bill 2995, a bill that would allow experimental weather modification by artificial methods and implement a national weather modification policy, does not include agriculture or public oversight, is on the "fast track" to be passed early in 2006.

"This bill is designed to implement experimental weather modification. The appointed Board of Directors established by this bill does not include any agricultural, water, EPA, or public representatives, and has no provisions for Congressional, State, County, or public oversight of their actions or expenditures.

"Trimethyl Aluminum (TMA) and barium are just two of the toxic chemicals used in recent atmospheric heating and testing programs according to NASA. The Alaska H.A.A.R.P. atmospheric heating program may have the capability of changing the Jet Stream which could also change our weather."

CONTRAILS: KILLING US SOFTLY?

"Over time, I met Rosalind Peterson, who has been doing the hard research on this issue; her credentials here. Rosalind's research has gone far and above what most people can imagine. One of the most important presentations she made during our meeting at the State Capitol in Sacramento, California (details here) were the water tables showing the spikes in aluminum and barium, and the FAA fly over sheets for the Mendocino area. Even the nit wit at Rep. Neillo's office was surprised when Rosalind presented these documents which clearly showed military and civilian plane patterns; color ink is used to designate which is military and which are civilian planes, private or commercial. Neillo's aide could clearly see was one set of fly overs were unidentified. These fly over patterns are silly when you look at them. They go crisscross and in circles and then simply fly off into the sunset. No one can tell you why this crazy fly over pattern on a specific day or who these planes belong to and unfortunately, Neillo's aide simply refused to look into the matter. He arrogantly told me the contrails in Sacramento that I observed from my house only three miles from the airport were from commercial jets. Of course, it makes perfect sense that 2-4 commercial jet liners like Delta or United, would take off from the Sacramento airport at the same time, fly north and south and then east and west for 3-4 hours and then head for Philly or Boston. Now, why didn't I think of that!"

Just thought I'd bring this back up to the surface....  Some of the wording since the above post has been changed on the  U.S. Senate Bill 517 and U.S. House Bill 2995 that was put on fast track back in 2006 but worth a look...

We are being ruled by mad men.

When I read about these things, all I can think is these are methods of funneling public money into private hands. Car companies are given billion of dollars to develop new battery and fuel technologies. Corporations are given billions to reduce their carbon emissions. Research foundations and universities are given billions through federal grants to "study" global warming. Public money into private hands, but it's not enough.

Some people are duped into giving their money to private companies to invest in "green" technologies so their carbon footprints will be "offset." Celebrities are recruited to make people feel responsible for something they have virtually no control over. "Calculate your carbon footprint," they advise "so you can pay the correct offset and become carbon neutral." Yeah, right.

So much for green building & all our technology...  read this a couple weeks ago...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1241872/EXCLUSIVE-Inside-Chinas-secret-toxic-unobtainium-mine.html
EXCLUSIVE: Inside China's secret toxic unobtainium mine

By Richard Jones In Baiyun Obo, Inner Mongolia
Last updated at 11:19 AM on 10th January 2010

    "Last week it was reported that China - which has a global monopoly on the production of rare-earth metals - is now threatening to cut off vital supplies to the West. A shortage would jeopardise the manufacturing and development of green technologies such as wind turbines and low-energy lightbulbs. RICHARD JONES is the first Western journalist to visit the rare-earth mines in Inner Mongolia to discover why China is unwilling to give up its precious elements...


It looks like a scene from an apocalyptic science-fiction movie. High on the frozen plains of Inner Mongolia, giant trucks rumble across the floor of a lunar-like crater so vast that it looks as if it might have been gouged out by a meteorite.

As we peer down at the eerie spectacle from the crater's edge, a security guard behind us barks out in Mandarin: 'Explosives! Move away!' Seconds later, a deafening crack rings out and part of a 660ft high rock face is brought crashing down."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1241872/EXCLUSIVE-Inside-Chinas-secret-toxic-unobtainium-mine.html#ixzz0dfEjHWeH


more here...   http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/business/global/01minerals.html

Climate Flimflam Flaming Out

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=519049

Disclaimer of Liability: With respect to this article, I  assume no responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information disclosed.

The billion-dollar hoax

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/the-billion-dollar-hoax/story-e6frfhqf-1225823736564

Disclaimer of Liability: With respect to this article, I  assume no responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information disclosed.



Good article here in Der Spiegel for which I don't require any disclaimer:

Confidence Melting Away - Can Climate Forecasts Still Be Trusted?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,674087,00.html#ref=nlint

The hysterics and exaggerated prophesies of pundits like Al Gore, as well as scientific inaccuracies in the IPCC report, along with the indications that more than a few climate scientists have acted as activists has done irreparable damage to the credibility of the scientific community at large and as a whole.

Sad times. Good job, guys.