What is this "Birther" stuff, anyway?

[RainDog]

 I'd heard about this during the election, in reference to some obscure Indonesian law pertaining to how his mother would have lost US citizenship. yadda-yadda, and I've seen photos of misspelled signs held up at tea party rallies claiming OB is Kenyan, but I just kinda wrote it all off as wishful thinking on the part of Obama opponents.

Assumed it was a flash in the pan, grasping at straws, maybe tinged with a little racism, and pretty much done with.

Last night I watched a John McCain for US Senate campaign commercial representing foe J. D. Hayworth as a "Birther".

http://www.youtube.com/user/JohnMcCaindotcom#p/a/u/0/28qf6QOfpC0

A quick web search showed that Snopes.com and the St. Petersburg Times' PolitiFact.com have debunked this. The folks at FactCheck.org actually inspected a valid Obama birth certificate with the raised seal and the stamp on the back, posted numerous photos of it online, and ran down a birth announcement in the Honolulu Advertiser.

I've seen references to it here in the forum, but really thought they were made tongue-in-cheek.

People are still goin' at this? Folks really think that Obama isn't an American? I mean real people, not mountebanks like Orly Taitz and Philip Berg, who are obviously in it for the fame and fortune?

Really?

[MountainDon]

Raindog, you've opened a can of worms.   

[StinkerBell]

Abstracted certification of live birth..

[Squirl]

Orly Tavitz also says that even if he was born in the U.S., he can not legally be president because his father was not a U.S. citizen.  You can scroll through many of my past posts for most of the prevailing legal arguments.  If you look almost no person that argues this is a practicing or reputable lawyer, because they actually respect the fact that they could get disbarred for argue ridiculous points that don't have a basis in the law.  Most of the people arguing these points are doing it are taking advantage of what people want to believe for profit.  They are making a tidy sum too.  Many of the people that forward these arguments have a fundamental misunderstanding of the American legal system.

[ScottA]

The fundamental misunderstanding of the American legal system is that it is in any way legal.  

[RainDog]

Orly Tavitz also says that even if he was born in the U.S., he can not legally be president because his father was not a U.S. citizen.  You can scroll through many of my past posts for most of the prevailing legal arguments.  If you look almost no person that argues this is a practicing or reputable lawyer, because they actually respect the fact that they could get disbarred for argue ridiculous points that don't have a basis in the law.  Most of the people arguing these points are doing it are taking advantage of what people want to believe for profit.  They are making a tidy sum too.  Many of the people that forward these arguments have a fundamental misunderstanding of the American legal system.

Okay, gotcha.

I read this:

"But in a "movement" like this, the real major players are the hundreds of hapless morons who believe the conspiracy, not necessarily the ones trying to sell it to them."

http://gawker.com/5320465/the-birthers-who-are-they-and-what-do-they-want

Would you guess "hundreds" is about right? That's not very many, really. Pretty much lines up with what I'd thought, that it wasn't a serious movement insofar as the number of people subscribing to the theory goes.

[NM_Shooter]

Check the font on that certificate. 

[RainDog]

Check the font on that certificate. 

 

[RainDog]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...

"58% of Republicans either believed that Obama was not born in the US (28%) or were not sure (30%), with 42% believing that he was."

"A Public Policy Polling survey carried out in August 2009 found that only 32% of Republicans in Virginia thought that Obama was born in the US. 41% thought he was foreign-born and the remaining 27% were unsure."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Claims_that_Obama_was_not_born_in_Hawaii

What?

[muldoon]

I did quite a bit of reading on this subject and came to the final conclusion that I just didn't even really care either way.  I think that he was born to a US citizen mother and raised mostly in America; but even if not and he broke some laws to get where he is, so what?  They are breaking laws every single day.  If getting angry or indignant about throwing away the constitution or not following laws actually mattered in this country we wouldn't be where we are now. 

Aside from that, raindog - are you so tired of picking a fight with everyone else's responses in other threads that now you just start new threads to argue with people about? 

[MountainDon]

I don't think this issue matters one way or the other as there is no dispute about him having a mother who was a US citizen at the time of his birth. That conveys citizenship to any offspring born anywhere in the universe at present. Yes, the rules regarding that have morphed this way and that in the details, over the years. However, if a foreigner can give birth to a child on our soil and that child is granted full rights of US citizenship then surely any child of a US citizen parent can be counted as a US citizen no matter where the birth took place.

I don't give give a rats a$$ about this subject anymore.

[RainDog]

 From what Squirl and MountainDon have posted, I take it this subject has been beaten to death at some point before my time. Okay, that's fine.

muldoon, this section of the forum is "Off Topic - Ideas, politics, humor, inspiration". More than a few of us here have used these discussions of controversial issues in a productive manner to exercise our ability to back up what we blurt out. We've got a pretty good track record of keeping to the issue at hand in mature manner thus far.

That said, anyone expecting universal vapid agreement on contentious subjects such as politics should probably abstain from discussion. Eventually, though, wherever these discussions take place, there's always someone who gets all butt-hurt over it and lashes out with some purely personal attack.

Nothin' I can do about that. Not my problem.

[glenn kangiser]

Actually further information makes it look like his grandfather is really his dad and his mother may be unknown as his "mother"  (sister, Stanley Anne Dunham") showed no signs of pregnancy near the time he was supposedly born, and his "mother" (half sister) was just enlisted to cover her fathers missteps.  There is more.  Obama wrote a poem about seeing himself in his pops (grandpa)  and they both have the same  "dog chew toy" ears.

Sorry I have no backup info in this and am just going from memory of the article I read.

With the hundreds of thousands of dollars he has spent on lawyers to keep the truth from coming out it is no wonder there are people making educated guesses.

It is my understanding that Hawaii issues the "Certificate of Live Birth" to others than those born there.  I have kind of dropped the pursuit of this topic as no one seems to care if we have a legally elected president or a Kenyan president.  The elite will put who they want in there and order the SCOTUS to cover their trail anyway.

The supreme court does not feel it is the right of any of the people of the US to see to it that the Constitution is followed because it is their desire and the desire of the elite to do a way with the Constitution.  According to them there are no people, lawyers or anyone else with the authority to question the legality of the White House resident.  At least they are impartial.  They continue to do it for both parties.

[pagan]

Glenn,

Is this the article?

http://2164th.blogspot.com/2010/02/if-obamas-real-father-was-his.html

[glenn kangiser]

I think it is the same article although I read it at a different source.  I don't remember that particular blog.

Interesting  isn't it, and seems pretty logical as well as it being as hard to prove wrong as the possibility that he was born in Kenya.  If only he would come clean, he could put an end to the questions, but likely that would end his stint in office.


Why else would he pay all of the lawyers to prevent discovery, and why would it be necessary for the SCOTUS to block all attempts at trial for the truth.

Note that Hillary and he were working on making it legal for non-citizens to be president a few years before he got into office, however they were not successful with that.  They route they finally chose was to hide, remove and block the facts through a small army of lawyers and the SCOTUS.

There are old references and pictures of Obama and the Clintons hanging out together.  The miracle of Obama making it to president and Hillary getting her office is not so such a miracle, as it was preordained.  They planned it all along and the public was of course duped into believing they had a fair election.

2 choice limit --- one a sleeping old man and a soccer mom, or the other a person that reads well from a teleprompter and will carry out the plans of the NWO as directed.  Funny how the non-war party has escalated the war in Pakistan as was predicted they would before elected....  Gitmo is not closed ... we are not out of Iraq.... we are still threatening Iran ....and on and on and on.   Change...yes - I have about $2.73 worth in my pocket....  

[pagan]

They do look alike.

[StinkerBell]

The one thing that always stood out for me was the "Race" thing. In the early 60's "African" was not used. Something else was.

[pagan]

Hey Glenn, I sure could use that $2.73, I really need a coke. 

[glenn kangiser]

The one thing that always stood out for me was the "Race" thing. In the early 60's "African" was not used. Something else was.

Yes, true, and affairs with servants would have been quite possible and possibly likely.

pc, drop by and I'll buy you one...

[StinkerBell]

*Yes, true, and affairs with servants would have been quite possible and possibly likely*


Huh?

[glenn kangiser]

I was speaking of the possibility that Obama's grandfather was really his father and may have had an African maid or girlfriend as put forward by the evidence in the blog, therefore it may have been his mother that was black rather than his father and Stanley Anne was his sister rather than his mother.

[pagan]

Strom Thurmond had an illegitimate daughter with a black servant.

Glenn,

The craving would probably pass by the time I got there.

[StinkerBell]

I see them saying on that abstract his Race as African.....Kinda reminds me of The Killian documents.

[RainDog]

"can of worms" indeed!

If we could bottle this thread up and market it as a legal high, we'd make millions.

Heck, I'm havin' a psychedelic experience just skimming it.

 


 

[pagan]

Stinkerbell,

They all play from the same deck of cards, it just depends on whose dealing. Honestly I'm surprised people haven't claimed Obama was a member of the Black Panthers.