Elections 2008

[Squirl]

I don't know why people think being born in Kenya matters.  From a constitutional argument it is moot.  His mother was an american citizen.  It doesn't matter where she was in the world when she gave birth, he is still a natural born citizen.  It is a good stance because any one of us who is an american doesn't want the thought that our children would have a chance of not being citizens. The Federal Election Committee decided that in 2000 when McCain ran for president because he was born in Panama.

I don't doubt there was fraud found in Philadelphia.  I have moved all over the state of Pennsylvania ans spent most of my life here.  But Obamas vote margin in Pennsylvania was so huge (600,000) votes. You could take away the entire margin he won philadelphia by and he would still have won the state.  If he stole the PA election he managed to engineer over half a million votes in suburban areas that are controled by republicans and have repbublican representatives.  Being one of the people of PA, we would have noticed that.  

Ohio?  I have no idea, I'm not from Ohio.  He may have stolen Ohio.  But again that is moot.  He won in an electoral landslide. You could take away everystate he did not win by 10% and he would still be president.  We have all had a reminder that the popular vote in this country doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

[glenn kangiser]

It eem he think it matters as he ran on fraudulent papers that said maybe he was born in Hawaii.  I wonder why he bothered if it doesn't matter? hmm

[John Raabe]

Contrary to the pessimism and jaded dogma you hear on this and other blogs, there is now a chance for a fresh look at America - both from the viewpoint of the world and from the inside of the ever surprising American Story...

Adjustments are going to be made over the coming months and many may be willing to put aside their fears and worn dogma and join in an effort to reinvent the country they share.

America will never be perfect, it will never be able to make everyone happy, but we can make a start at being "one people". We can try to live the experiment as a participant once again.

There is new hope afoot in America. Take a step out into the light and see if that sun doesn't have a ray or two of warmth shining on you.

[NM_Shooter]

There would have been a fresh look for America if either Red or Blue won.  However, we now have the following:

A president who has vowed to de-weaponize space.  Decrease our military strength, and hobble our ability to protect ourselves.

A president who was launched to fame by those who hate the US.

A president who has (admitted by her own thesis) a wife who is a bigot.

A president who wants to increase tax on corporations (can't you hear the sucking sound as corporations move themselves and jobs offshore?)

A president who wants to "spread the wealth", but can't quite seem to figure out just yet where that income threshold is.

A president who looks down on those who are guided by Christianity.

A president who has no respect for the 2nd amendment.

A new democrat president who also has a democrat senate and a democrat house.  Won't that be fun.

A new president who was elected via groups who admitted to building a completely bogus voting base.

A new president who allowed "washed" funds to come into his campaign treasury by not checking addresses on credit card donations.

I just hope that the new view that others will be taking of us won't be through a bomb sight.  Anybody want to bet that Biden was right about being tested?

None of us may be as smart as all of us.... but God help us when the less intelligent ones set the course. 

[peternap]

There would have been a fresh look for America if either Red or Blue won.  However, we now have the following:

A president who has vowed to de-weaponize space.  Decrease our military strength, and hobble our ability to protect ourselves.

A president who was launched to fame by those who hate the US.

A president who has (admitted by her own thesis) a wife who is a bigot.

A president who wants to increase tax on corporations (can't you hear the sucking sound as corporations move themselves and jobs offshore?)

A president who wants to "spread the wealth", but can't quite seem to figure out just yet where that income threshold is.

A president who looks down on those who are guided by Christianity.

A president who has no respect for the 2nd amendment.

A new democrat president who also has a democrat senate and a democrat house.  Won't that be fun.

A new president who was elected via groups who admitted to building a completely bogus voting base.

A new president who allowed "washed" funds to come into his campaign treasury by not checking addresses on credit card donations.

I just hope that the new view that others will be taking of us won't be through a bomb sight.  Anybody want to bet that Biden was right about being tested?

None of us may be as smart as all of us.... but God help us when the less intelligent ones set the course. 

I read it was all a dream:

Louis Winthorpe III: I had the most absurd nightmare. I was poor and no one liked me. I lost my job, I lost my house, Penelope hated me and it was all because of this terrible, awful Negro.

[harry51]

I think McCaine will give us a continual slow decline with the same bad policies. 
I think Obama will give us a much faster decline with new bad policies. 
Finally, I think Americans will finally get fed up with the state were in if the change is fast and drastic. 

Sadly I don't think this will happen. They are careful to test our limits when changes are imposed. If they go too far like they did with fuel prices they back off for a bit. But bit by bit we are inched closer to their goals.

This election like most elections for the past 50 years is an illusion. You are a cow in a chute and at some point you are given a choice to go left or right only to have the two chutes reconverge later on. The sick trick is to make you belive you have actualy chosen your own path but the truth is there was never any obvious choice. The path that goes unnoticed by the vast mass of humanity is that of climbing over the fence. That path has hazards that are taught to all of us and that we quickly learned. Climb over the fence and you'll be hit in the rump with a hot shot. For those that don't know what that is it like a taser for cows. We had those long before anyone ever heard of a taser. You think it's strange that a device that was once used only for livestock is now used on humans? Even the hot shot won't stop all the cattle though some still get out but sadly few if any ever get away for long.

You go ahead and chose the chute you like, red or blue it doen't really matter. As for me I'm climbing over the fence and taking my chances. 

I agree. I would also point out that getting hit in the rump with a hotshot is vastly preferable to getting hit in the head with a sledge hammer, which is the inevitable consequence of staying in the (either!) chute. I vote to climb the fence, run like hell, and damn the hotshots!  Also interesting to me is the deafening media silence concerning the "other" black presidential candidate, Alan Keyes. Is it possible the gatekeepers don't like his politics? Naaah, they wouldn't discriminate just because he believes in constructionist constitutionalism, personal responsibility, and limited government.........would they?

[MountainDon]

Harry51, I believe most Americans have not a clue who Alan Keyes even is, let alone know he's black, even if he has run for president three times.

[harry51]

That's the sad reality, MountainDon. It speaks volumes about the electorate as well as the mainstream media. It's going to be an interesting next 4 years......

[MountainDon]

...why people think being born in Kenya matters...

Exactly Squirl! It does not matter at all because all it takes is for one parent to be a US Citizen. That and registering the birth with the US Consulate. This is simply smoke and mirrors raised by some in a desperate attempt to discredit Obama. The same thing was raised by some on the other side of the fence about John McCain earlier in this election season as well.

[StinkerBell]

...why people think being born in Kenya matters...

Exactly Squirl! It does not matter at all because all it takes is for one parent to be a US Citizen. That and registering the birth with the US Consulate. This is simply smoke and mirrors raised by some in a desperate attempt to discredit Obama. The same thing was raised by some on the other side of the fence about John McCain earlier in this election season as well.

I just do not agree with you on this. Overall I generally agree with you but not on this.
McCain birth was vetted, and the conclusion is that all though he was not born in the US continent he was born on American soil. Just like other nations have property here that is theirs (embassy's). Now if Mc Cain's parents where on vacation in another country and had him at a local hospital he could still be american through his parents filling a form, but he would have not been born on American soil.

As for Obama if people wanted to prove he was not born in Hawaii, the better way to do this was to prove his mom was not in Hawaii at the time of his birth. They went the wrong route or they know she was in Hawaii and this was just a red herring.

[MountainDon]

I think the Obama Hawaii/Kenya thing was a red herring.

From the Constitution of the United States, Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

The part that confuses the issue is how one defines "natural born citizen".

From Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition:  "Natural born citizen.  Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad."

From http://www.uscis.gov,  Citizenship is one of the most coveted gifts that the U.S. government can bestow, and the most important immigration benefit that USCIS can grant.  Most people become U.S. citizens in one of two ways:
*By birth, either within the territory of the United States or to U.S. citizen parents, or
*By Naturalization.

I interpret "natural born citizen", as used by the framers of the Constitution, to exclude those born abroad to parents who are not US citizens.

So my layman interpretation of the above presidential and citizenship issues comes down to both McCain and Obama being eligible to become POTUS.   Furthermore, our son, born in a civilian hospital in Canada to a US Citizen (mother), would be eligible, but Governor Arnold and I would not.

I simply take the position that if being born to a US citizen abroad is good enough for all those other things; voting, medicaid, and so on, the same rule/logic should apply to the question of presidential eligibility. Maybe that's simplistic but that's how I feel about it. YOMV.   

[StinkerBell]

I dunno MD, it says US Citizen Parents (Plural) Whereas Obama's parents we not both US Citizens.

Anyways, the wrong route was taken. If it was to be proved he was not born in Hawaii the best route was to prove his mother was not in Hawaii at the time of his birth.

[MountainDon]

I agree it was the wrong way to attack their perceived problem.


I think that may have been modified in a later amendment to read something like one parent.  At this point I don't think it matters. If it did I believe the Republicans would have made hay with it a long time ago. Or the Clintons.

[cordwood]

 If the mother is a U.S. citizen it only requires one parent as the father could be fictitious anyway.

[alcowboy]

Child born in wedlock to one U.S. citizen parent and one non U.S. citizen parent on or after November 14, 1986: A child born outside of the United States to one U.S. citizen parent and one non-U.S. citizen parent may be entitled to citizenship providing the U.S. citizen parent had been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for five years, at least two years of which were after s/he reached the age of fourteen. This period of physical presence must have taken place prior to the birth of the child.

Child born in wedlock to one U.S. citizen parent and one non-U.S. Citizen parent between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986: A child born outside of the United States to one U.S. Citizen parent and one non-U.S. Citizen parent, may be entitled to citizenship providing the U.S. Citizen parent had, prior to the birth of the child, been physically present in the United States for a period of ten years, at least five years of which were after s/he reached the age of fourteen.

This is taken from the US Consulate website located in Bejiing China. I am sure this applies to any country. READ WELL! I do not think she met the criteria presented therefore he is NOT a US CITIZEN. Furthermore, is not African American, black or whatever you call it. His dad was not an African, he was Arabian. 

Regardless of the information or anything else out there, he has been elected our President. I voted for McCain but I have seen a change in demeanor in him as of his acceptance speech last night and the possible selection of Chief of Staff today. I pray that God leads this man and that he leads our nation well. May we all come together and strengthen this country and not divide it. Together we stand, divided we fall. GOD BLESS and PEACE to everyone!

[StinkerBell]

alcowboy I think the point is moot seeing he was born in Hawaii.

[karnf]

Stinkerbell,
Again, why won't he present his document if there is a doubt? It cost more money in the courts to persue
this and if he had nothing to hide he would show it just to rest it because there are many American citizens
who are doubtful. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. He has even concealed his college records.
McCain disclosed everything when questioned.
Russia and Hamas has already started their reign of terror as soon as our weak president as gotten. The terrorists have spoken. They think he is no threat which has increased their courage to strike.
Trust me. I will remind you guys who think our country made a postitive change every time he shows his true colors. He already has my appointed Rahm Emanuel a radical in your face liberal.
Thanks NM_Shooter. You are right on with your observations.

[alcowboy]

My main question, which remains unanswered, is how the heck did he get where he is? Where did he come from?

• Community organizer
• Senator for an extremely short period
• NO military background
• NO experience with dignitaries -foreign or otherwise
• NO REAL experience in government

If his father did not have money how did Barrack get the funds to go to Harvard? His dad was a militant in South Africa, a muslim, his mother turned to Islam, and his step father was Islamic. Go figure. Rev. Wright is a racist in every form and fashion and big time against America. Barrack sat in the pew for 20+/- years and says he "didn't know what Rev. Wright was all about". How can you go to listen to a person for that long and "not know what they were preaching." PLEASE!  I don't know much about the "association" with Ayers but I really don't care. YES! He was a trainer for ACORN. No, he may not have been on payroll but he impressed the people and they asked him to train the staff. SOUND SUSPICIOUS?!?
I also still say there was a lot of money laundering from militant fascists through other means to get money in Barrack's campaign chest. How else can you explain millions upon millions of dollars to one candidate?
If he really wanted to "spreaad the wealth" why did he not hand most of the extra $$ from his campaign to many of us who are struggling instead of paying millions to have a 30 minute advertisement on all the major networks? What was his point on that anyway? HA HA I CAN OUTSPEND YOU! Shame on him and his campaign people.

I could go on and on but what damn bit of good is it going to do? Those who chose to deafen their ears to the truths have put him and and now we ALL have to deal with it. All I can say at this point is that regardless of the outcome of the election, he is the president (for what it is worth) and we as AMERICANS, black, white, hispanic or other creeds and nationalities need to come together as we have in the past and become ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE!!

Our forefathers would turn over in their graves knowing we are letting this split the nation apart! I love my fellow Americans. I love my country. And above all, I LOVE MY GOD! I will back him for what it is worth and yes I will fuss and rip and snort when I disagree. But do we have the power to really change the government? The real answer my friends is NO. All we can do is change the faces and names of the government. As long as they know how to rip off the people they will train the newbies and continue on and sweep it all under the carpet as they have always done in the past.

[StinkerBell]

First and foremost Obama was not my candidate, but he will be my president. I have a very patriotic side.
And I am also a rational person. He provided a Birth Certificate, but that was not enough. People next demand was a vaulted Birth Certificate. I think he provided enough and if there was any truth to the issue it would have been outed by now. As for who paid for his education, good chance he got scholarships, better chance he got a pale grant and/ or other loans. I am sure with his families income he qualified for a lot of perks.

As far as back pocket money, I think the whole of DC has been bought and paid for by many groups and special interest.
I find it ironic to some degree how "We the people" cry out for an outsider to go clean up DC. Palin was one of the most outside people we could have with experience in running a state. SHe was no DC insider. But with that said people complained that she had no experience.
So, I ask what is it you want? and outsider to clean it up or a person with experience, therefore tainted by DC?

I truly believe the system itself is corrupt. Personally I would love to throw it out. If my hard disc get corrupt I toss that out. Seems rather simple.

[MountainDon]

Well, right now the thing is the '08 election is over and Obama is POTUS.

We have to work with what we got. Rather than rehash old garbage or try to explore new trash, let's see what develops and deal with it as it's presented. It may not be what I wanted, but it's what we got. Let's make lemonade.   

[sparks]

Who is gonna pay?

More of the same...

http://www.slate.com/id/2203929?y=1

Don't ya just love it....??

Hey brother, can ya spare some popcorn?

PS....the pundits are saying Chicago is a shoe in for the 2016 Olympics now.

Who is gonna pay?

[karnf]

I am building a 12x20 shed/cabin by Deep Creek Md. My state is so democratic and they went out in record
numbers to vote along with the illegal aliens who were register to vote as soon as they were given drivers
licenses. Yes our terrible governer (O'Malley) raised our taxes and made our state a sanctuary for illegals
that I am thinking of completing the building with the nine acreas and getting the heck out of the state.
The question is where do I go? I am from Louisiana and with the new Gov.(Jindal) he has made a huge
positive impact on the state. Too bad my husband doesn't want to live in hot humid weather.
I really feel so strong especially now that my vote doesn't count. There is only a small portion of Maryland
that has a huge population that determines the blue state outcome every time. So sad. I need to rethink
my homestead now. Thinking of trying out a new red state.

[alcowboy]

Alabama will welcome you with open arms my friend.

[MountainDon]

There's no place lie the SW

[karnf]

I gotta work on my husband's yankee ways.
Thanks for the invitation alcowboy and mountaindon.