A 24'x18' straw bale lodge

[Drew]

Yeah, Glenn.  So far so good, for us at least.  The town is pretty messed up, though I haven't been up there to see it.  I posted a map on the "How's the Weather?" thread.

We'll just have to see how it goes.  We don't have insurance yet since we are still building.  One thing about building small; it's easier to come back from.

You know what they say about an internal wall fire on a straw bale?  You have 30 days to get out of the building!

[glenn kangiser]

Straw is good -- I didn't know it was that good.  We were thinking of you last night when we heard it was Palermo.

[Sassy]

Glad you're place is ok...  this year is really going to be bad - we've been seeing the helicopters & fire engines, fire crews out a lot already...  we did get that little reprieve with the rain a couple weeks ago but the ground is bone dry - got 50 in rain last year, this year approx 16 with the last rain.

Still waiting to see the ritual dance on top of the deck - make sure you video the break-dancing robot interpretive!   

[Drew]

Well, here's our dancing on the floor picture.



I broke my break dance, so we'll have to settle for some local square dancing.

My jokes are almost as bad as yours, Glenn!

No new word on the fire yet.  I rode my bike from Ocean Beach to the Marin side of the GG Bridge and back.  It doesn't do anything about the fire, but it keeps me from worrying about it.

Here's that hippie that keeps hanging around calling me Dad, Daddy-o, or something.

[glenn kangiser]

Far out.

Keep practicing, Drew -- soon they will be as bad a mine.

[Redoverfarm]

Looking good Drew.  Once the deck is on you can start to see some progress. 

[ScottA]

Looks good Drew. Now you'll have to build walls. No end to the fun. 

[Redoverfarm]

Drew in the spring around some of the orchards they set out round bales of hay which they light to smolter during the frost season to protect the fruit trees.  They will last a long time due to the tightness of the bales and the air is unable to penetrate the interior until the outsides burn in. But I guess you will stucco or similar finish so that really wouldn't be an issue. 

[Drew]

I found a source for my two string bales near Williams, which is about 60 miles away.  My neighbor has a flatbed so we can handle the hills near my place.  The rice farmer wants $4 a bale, which is pretty steep.  Still, the straw is baled for construction and has < 12% moisture.

Hammer: $6
Milspec hammer: $600

Straw bale: $2
Hippie House bale: $4

I should relax.  The guy is trying to make a living and is providing a product to specification to the market.  I plan to sell my organic value-add products to people at a margin high enough to entice me to enter the market.  God love you, Adam Smith.

I looked a bit more for a company that would sell me some mineral clay.  It's not like I don't have it in the ground, but I need to use my crew's time and morale wisely.  Mining clay, especially after digging the irrigation trench, would be unpopular.  One company I called up tried to scare me about being a first timer and offered to consult.

I'm not up for that, but I do know I should probably do some earth plaster samples before I do the whole place.  Glenn, I have your family recipe.  Do you have any thoughts on varying the mixture for samples to take into account local conditions?

ION, they put up a fire break on the Palermo Honcut Highway and the fire did not breach it.  The fire is now 100% contained.  Temperatures return to 90+ degrees.

[Redoverfarm]

Drew given the present economy that is really not that bad for the straw.  Around here they are getting $4.50 for wheat straw to seed and mulch with. But you don't get all the inert properties when seeding with it compared to hay.  If you plant Blue grass then Blue grass comes up not thistles, dock and everything else that is in the hay.  Yeah, Yeah, Yeah  when I was growing up you could PU in the field for $.50 a bale.  But gas was $.25 gallon also. 

[Drew]

Thanks John.  That's good to hear.  I've had a few handshake deals go bad out in the country, so I've gotten a little suspicious.  My wife now says, "If you owe someone five bucks, offer to make payments." 

All the more reason to learn to do for myself.  There are lots of good folks out here too.  One of my neighbors wants to come help when the bales go up.  The guy who fixes my dad's car in Colusa gives me a good deal too.

[glenn kangiser]

Hey Drew, I would say  just check the clay out -- slightly wet you should be able to make a snake.

I have about a 150 tons of it here, Drew -- wish you were closer.

Check the clay and see if it has aggregate in it.  Increase the clay amount some if it does -- like here - about 20 % aggregate so I mix 50/50 with sand for the best mix -- If it's too sandy it will come apart  easier -- too clayey - it will shrink and crack more -- cut straw bales with a chainsaw before removing the strings for shorter straws that are better for plastering.   

Straw is your reinforcement so use enough.  I like some in every handfull of mud.

[Drew]

Me too, Glenn.  Then I could go play in the Park anytime I wanted!

I'm looking at the clay issues: locating, transport, mixing the right ratio for the materials and location, and wondering about the advantages of doing stucco.

Yeah, this sounds like a cop out, but seriously.  Oroville is dry as English wit, so I don't think I'll have to worry about trapping moisture in the walls.  What do you think about the relative advantages/disadvantages of using it?  If anything, I have to tell myself I looked at the option before rejecting it.

Don't tell Hippie HQ I asked about it, though... 

[glenn kangiser]

hmm Drier than a popcorn f*rt, eh?

Well -- the code approved ones here are mostly stucco covered with wide eaves.  I have seen issues with earth too - you could put cure and seal over it when done to probably stop water penetration.  Earth plaster would likely need to be touched up every few years - some of it does not hold up good and I get tired of it also and go to stucco in places - others the earth plaster went off of -- One wall is still holding up well though - the one where I used the proper mixes etc,

Are you considering chicken wire w/paper back lath?  It might give you a bit of safety..

[Drew]

I read about the chicken wire and paper and how it gives extra protection.  The author thought that it was better overall to leave it off since the bare bales give a great tie in for the stucco.  In the Red Feather project ("Building a Straw Bale House: The Read Feather Construction Handbook" by Nathaniel Corum - I bet it's on your shelf, Glenn) they use stucco, though I imagine they were surrounded by clay soil.

I'm reading your post again.  "Paper back lathe"?  I imagined some sort of moisture resistant material that covers the bales and lies under the wire.  Is that it, or is it something else?

I wonder if chicken wire (no paper) over the bales would add significant tie in and structural strength without interfering with a wifi signal.  I'll have to relay it down from the top of the hill.

When I get broadband out there I'll share it with my neighbors.  The SSID will be "Y33h@w"

It's 26 months until our youngest, Robin, starts college and we can sell this house and move to Palermo.  Unfortunately, some folks I'm reading estimate we still have a few years to shake off the market blues from the lending mess.  Looks like I'm going to have to get creative.

[glenn kangiser]

It comes in rolls with the paper already on it.
You are right that you would lose your tie to the straw.  That would be the downside.

There was a guy who used womens frilly undergarments for the lace to hold his stucco together on his alternative home.  I plastered a rammed earth wall I made that wasn't well stabilized with colored stucco - it worked well and while I wasn't into the frilly undergarments I did use some of the cheap 1 inch or so weave plastic deer fence material.  It comes in 7 x 100 foot rolls for about $26 and while not a petticoat, it seemed to work well.

[Drew]

I like the petticoat idea, but my wife would probably wonder why I kept looking up under the rim joists all the time.   

The deer fence idea is good too.  It wouldn't interfere with the wifi, and it's a lot cheaper than chicken wire.

You gotta wonder how that guy got all the undies for his, um, underlayment.  "You throwin' those out, Bob?  Put 'em in my truck.  I know they aren't my size, you jacka$$, just do it!  By the way, where did YOU get them?"

[glenn kangiser]

hmm - I guess it must have been a ... slip up.

[Redoverfarm]

Drew just ran across this product and thought it may be something you would be interested in .

http://americanclay.com/

John

[jwv]

Hi All,

My .02 cents-we did cement stucco on the exterior over the first 2 courses of bales-great for protection from splashback.  The rest is earthen applied directly to the bales-no lath except over wood which the code requires to be papered then lathed.  The paper-backed lath is a time-saver.

We've been in the house since May 07.  Our monsoon rains last year did damage to the earthen on the south side and I took a day and a half to repair that last fall.  I liked what it did to the SW corner and actually left it alone.  Our first real rain of this season came with large marble sized hail so the south wall is now pock-marked.  It doesn't look bad so will leave it until the fall...or later.

The CEMENT stucco-it cracks as stucco does, you repair it it cracks somewhere else.  The only issue with that is you are never sure how much water is getting to the bales and being trapped in the bales.  Our first strawbale house was completely cement stucco on the outside and I always worried about that.

What I would do differently-extend the south overhang or put a roof over the south patio.  That's what we will probably do eventually.

The plaster on the N, E and most of the W side looks just as it did the day it was applied-absolutely no worries there.

Is there a company that makes adobes near oroville?  That's how we got our clay.

American Clay-pretty but Ka-CHING!

Judy

[glenn kangiser]

Hi Judy.  I think fibermesh added to the stucco will help prevent cracking.   Not natural but works well.  Natural -- try the barber shop floor --hair.

Our first earth plaster wall with a decent mix of clay sand  cement lime, is still doing well - south side.  Other ones with out the sand did not do so well.

[Drew]

I saw the American Clay and Judy is right.  If I remember right it's for spreading over sheetrock to give it a look, not as a replacement for earth plaster.

Glenn, I like your idea of adding the fiber concrete to the mix.  Still, I'll plan on patching.  Hey, I've gotten used to that working with Microsoft.

"Drew, when are you going to apply the Service Pack to the walls?  We're getting soaked!"

"Be still or I'll stop supporting House XP!"

[glenn kangiser]

What ever you do, don't upgrade your earthplaster walls to Vista. 

I don't think it is possible to get decent support-- unless they have a Vista Earthplaster wall support team in India.

Here is the Fiber Mesh info.  http://www.fibermesh.com/product.aspx?ID=2184

Our local concrete company would sell it to me at about $6 for a 1 lb bag I think - you could open the bag and throw a hand full  into your earth plaster mix - or stucco etc.  It really reinforces things.

[MountainDon]

American Clay http://www.americanclay.com/   a New Mexico company

dealer
http://thesolar.biz/Clayote_Clay_Plaster.htm

[jwv]

It's good to talk with you all again!  Since we're not actively building (but are you ever finished?) I don't get here as much but do check in to see other's progress.

My earthen plaster has not cracked at all, well maybe a little.  Good mix of clay, sand and finely chopped straw sifted through 1/4 inch screen makes a beautiful mix.

Repair isn't that bad; I love working with the plaster so it's a chance to slow down and "be one with the mud" 

Our dog sheds sos much I should be keeping all that hair.

Judy