Tool and (?) recommendations, Experiences

[Gary O]

I did a cursory search, and could not find the subject of tools....
OK, I get lazy after 1-2 pages of searching.
So here goes;
There seems to be many professionals in this forum, so bear with this ol' wood butcher as I shop for mid-grade tools. Not HFT throw away mind, but not something out of Woodworker's Supply either.

I posted this in Epinions back in '04
(Not a bad sight for pre-shopping, I might add):
In shopping for a 'good' table saw (not the $100 kind), I happened onto a garage sale with an 'in the box' Delta 36-600 saw. What a find! $110! I clipped off the straps, put it together in a few minutes, heart pounding, veins pulsating, ready to take on some household jobs. I gave my $100 bench unit to my son-in-law.
Two hours of ripping half inch plywood yielded an arcing motor. I unplugged the unit, removed the motor, and took it in for exchange. Hah! They wanted over $200 to swap it! I got on line with Delta and Sears. Same price! No substitutes! I bought a set of brushes. No help. Now, I didn't make the motor labor. The blade was new (sharp). Too bad. The saw is, over all, much better than the mid grade Craftsman models I've looked at. Also, it's too bad I didn't find this website earlier, cause now I know that this motor design is faulty from other like reviews.
Do not buy this model! You will be married to a badly designed motor.

I did buy the motor back in '04.
Yesterday the saw quit on me.
Not overloaded or force fed, ripped 1 ½ x 1 ½ deliberately slow.
Sharp blade.
No smoke or smell.
Actually it didn't quit, it just would not fire up.
Main breaker not tripped, plug is live.
I'm figuring it's the push button breaker on the saw, since it won't reset.
If not, I'm goin' shoppin'.

Suggestions?
DeWalt?
Ridgid?
I do have a Ridgid 12" sliding miter saw I will not soon part with, but not sure why I'd need the upper end in a table saw....just ripping mostly

Little help here

[ScottA]

You probably don't want to hear this but I have an old Ryobi table saw I have been using for 10 years. Ripped tons of boards with it and it still works perfectly. I paid $70 for it.

[dug]

Same here! I check out the nice ones in the tool isles now and then and think "some day..." but my $100 - 10 year plus old craftsman just won't quit!    It's outside getting rained on right now, but I did remember to put the tarp on this time.

[Native_NM]

If you are doing precision work, then a contractor saw is the better choice.  I have the folding Ryobi and have accomplished more than I expected for the price.  When I was building some built-ins, I took the stock to my friend's shop.  On the other hand, I cut oak treads for the stairs on the Ryobi and it did fine. Once I set it up and got it square, it was true for the entire job.  Folding them up and moving them seems to whack them out of square.  

Among the portable saws, they all are fairly comparable in the $300 range. I like the HD Ryobi tools because they just take them back if there is a problem. I have some Rigid, and rate them on the higher end.  DeWalt is good stuff.  I had a Craftsman planer. When it died, I replaced it with the DeWalt, and wish I had done it years ago.  

The advantage of buying Ryobi at HD or Craftsman at Sears is they are house brands, and they swap them out.  If you have a problem with your DeWalt saw, HD or Lowes will send you to the respective service center.  If you get the right clerk at Sears they might just give you a new one.

Rigid has the excellent warranty, but there is the price premium.

[MountainDon]

10 yr old ones might be better than the ones available as new today.    


What to get? Depends on what the planned use is.

The biggest table surface you can afford.
The most solid rip fence and miter gauge you can afford.

I have an old Delta and an old Shopsmith; both better than most anything available today unless you spend many hundreds of dollars.

[peternap]

I have a Jet that I've had for at least 20 years.
The motor weighs more than most potable table saws.

The cast top rusts since I don't use it as much as I used to...so every couple of years I sand t, buff it an wax it.

I can't remember the last time I had to square it and it always cuts true.

IMO....some things you can cut corners on price, but table saws aren't one of them.

[Gary O]

Boy, thanks guys.
Lotsa good info to ponder.

 I have the folding Ryobi and have accomplished more than I expected for the price.  
 The advantage of buying Ryobi at HD or Craftsman at Sears is they are house brands, and they swap them out.

The Ryobi foldable w/be great to pack to the cabin...getting weary of using the circular for long rips of OSB/ply/T1-11 and even a few boards at times.

IMO....some things you can cut corners on price, but table saws aren't one of them.

Yeah, that'd be in the excellent point dept.
I generally just rip things for rough work....but there are those times...
Yeah, Shopsmith....Jet......may do some craig's list foraging for used (not abused) upper end stuff.
I mean, other than the motor, what can go wrong with a Jet that can't be easily tended?
I would give it it's own area of worship and homage...........

my $100 - 10 year plus old craftsman just won't quit!    It's outside getting rained on right now, but I did remember to put the tarp on this time.

Too funny. I've had low end throw away tools that I've intentionally abused, but some just keep on comin' back, like a friendly stray dog. Have a $79 Ryobi sawzall that I've ran in the dirt, over worked, and left outside. Still, it was very instrumental in tearing down an ol' crushed camper a few weeks ago.

To wit:

You probably don't want to hear this but I have an old Ryobi table saw I have been using for 10 years. Ripped tons of boards with it and it still works perfectly. I paid $70 for it.

The biggest table surface you can afford.
The most solid rip fence and miter gauge you can afford.

Got that right

Again, thanks y'all
Whether the $15 push button breaker works or not, I'm goin' shoppin' for another 'needed' piece of equipment at the cabin....either take my limping Delta, or a rough-N-ready foldable (re-square after folding) Ryobi...and/or a Jet/Shopsmith/Ridgid/DeWalt for the home shop.

There's just never enough tools...........is this a great country or what?

[RIjake]

Add another Ryobi owner.  It hasnt seen a ton of use but with a sharp blade it works just fine for a weekend warrior.

[Gary O]

Add another Ryobi owner.  It hasnt seen a ton of use but with a sharp blade it works just fine for a weekend warrior.

It's been my experience that Ryobi has well met that market.

[Gary O]

I now have a small collection of these seemingly 'idiot proof' spouts, but it turns out it was idiots that designed it....(IMO)

I've done a cursory look thru Home Dopey, Lowes, and True Value and it looks like they think these are just dandy.
Maybe it's an Enviro thing?
Anybody have knowledge of a better one out there, or do I need to start lookin' hard at a piece of garden hose and duct tape?

[MountainDon]

What issues have you had with them?

[Gary O]

short spout
have to hold the little tab down while pouring
just plain over done...it's just a spout, right?
Actually, coupled with the spout is a ventless can with no grip at the back end (of which becomes the top when pouring)

need/love the simple ones...open/pour/done

[MountainDon]

The ones I have came with an flexy extension hose. I agree the catch and latch is awkward at times. Though one place I love it is when I refuel my generator that is in an enclosure. I tilt the can (2 gallon model) into place without the extension and once it is upside down with the spout in the tank fill then I release the ltach and the fuel flows.

They give you a nasty surprise on hot days if too full or tilted so gas is in the neck of the spout. When the latch is squeezed it spews gas. Messy and potentially dangerous, but all but slow learners should only have that happen once.

I do love my older Gott and Rubbermaid plastic cans very much. Discontinued though.

I wonder if the ventless spout came about because of C.A.R.B.?

[Gary O]

I wonder if the ventless spout came about because of C.A.R.B.?

Gotta be sumpm like that

[Squirl]

The new ventless spout was an EPA regulation.  You cannot buy a gas can anymore with a vent.  Keep the old ones you have.  It is funny, I believe they came up with it to reduce spillage.  I spill all over the place with the new can.  I also can never get the nozzle in the tank that I am filling.  Also they are SLOW.  It can take 5 minutes per gallon.  I hate these things. 

Also I know the Consumer Product Safety Commission was looking to require saw stop technology on all table saws.  Almost all news services have reported it would push the minimum price of a table saw over $500.  So get it now while the getting is good.  You can let the organization know what you think here:
http://www.cpsc.gov/

[considerations]

"I wonder if the ventless spout came about because of C.A.R.B.?"

I don't know either, but it is H--- to get a full one up a bumpy driveway.

[Don_P]

From my understanding that is where it came from, hate 'em. An appropriately placed hole and a golf T and they work.

A friend we built for a couple of year ago came by this week with the diagram of his Bosh table saw. He smoked the armature and had forked over a couple of hundred for a new one. Trouble is they made it pretty much impossible to remove the old one. I dropped off my old Hitachi throw away that I burned up for him to try to go to school on. I like the old belt drives rather than a direct drive saw. The craftsman I bought 35 years and 3 motors ago is back on the job. When it blows a motor it is not the end of the world, with a direct drive you might as well throw it away IMO. A few months ago I saw a unisaw in an online auction, always wanted one, threw in a low bid before work that morning never expecting anything. It's a beast, it'll be the shop saw.

This job has seen some casualties, Bostitch framing nailer, 8" 60* skillsaw, Dewalt router, PC sander, Makita beltsander, Milwaukee drill. I couldn't find a 60* saw so bought a 55* Makita, yup the next rash of cuts were 56*. They've all served well, I've been debating welding them up into a yard ornament  .

[MountainDon]

They've all served well, I've been debating welding them up into a yard ornament  .

I have an engine block with a rod hole in the side that would make a good base for that. 

[Don_P]

As of yesterday I apparently have one of those too  .
Our mason had an old Dodge on his farm very similar to my beater, I have an old Ford the same as his. Both are really crusher fodder but have some useable parts. We decided a trade was in order and if anyone felt the deal wasn't equal we'd load up the bed of the offending vehicle with more scrap  . We got his to fire up the other night and made a tour of his back 40. His boys learned to drive on it and the sheet metal is testament to a slow learning curve. I hooked my Ford to the tractor, snatched it out of the weeds and tried to fire it up yesterday... She actually tried pretty hard but then I looked underneath. Weak antifreeze was running out of the catalytic converter, good thing I have a healthy scrap pile 

[Gary O]

"Also I know the Consumer Product Safety Commission was looking to require saw stop technology on all table saws.  Almost all news services have reported it would push the minimum price of a table saw over $500."

"I wonder if the ventless spout came about because of C.A.R.B.?"

I just hate it when authorities or those that control what's on the shelf try to do all the thinking for you, in the name of safety (?). It's as though it's a given that we're all from the tribe of the dimwitites. And as mentioned, it's expensive.
My '99 Wrangler is a stripped model, not even a back seat, still it has a little lighted arrow in the instrument panel that appears from a sensor when it determines the optimal time to up shift...and yes it has a tach.
A few months ago the alternator began to go south. The amp gauge would periodically lay dead. When this would occur, I noticed two words appear on the panel...'CHECK GAUGE'......really?
These are in the yougottabekidding category.

Now the neckless/airventless can with a lever designed by and for idiots.
I s'pose the day is coming when we'll be taking our mowers to the service station, providing we'll have mowers.....with emission gauges...and silencers, providing there w/be service stations....which brings me to thinking about station tanks. Are they now ventless too?

....and I have no light to tell me when to downshift ...how the heck am I ever gonna get up a hill?

[Native_NM]

short spout
have to hold the little tab down while pouring
just plain over done...it's just a spout, right?
Actually, coupled with the spout is a ventless can with no grip at the back end (of which becomes the top when pouring)

need/love the simple ones...open/pour/done

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/EAGLE-Safety-Can-2W314?Pid=search

A little pricy, but easy to use.

[MountainDon]

A few months ago the alternator began to go south. The amp gauge would periodically lay dead. When this would occur, I noticed two words appear on the panel...'CHECK GAUGE'......really?

Did it actually die? I ask because my '99 Cherokee has been doing the same thing intermittently. But when it happened close to home last I came back, left it running while I got out my multimeter. Measured at the battery the voltage was something like 13.9 or so indicating some charging going on. Stopping and restarting would make the gauges work correctly again. Of course it never gives me the "check gauges" light when it is convenient to drop by the service shop. When I have it works fine and their equipment indicates no problem. So I'm curious and puzzled. 

[Gary O]

"Did it actually die?"

It didn't quit, but yeah, it was discharging when under load, and when the needle laid down, it was drawing down full bore.
I was able to give the alternator a tap and the needle would come alive and even show a charge. It was kinda fascinating, for a few weeks, but getting out and thumping it half way to where I was going was getting to be a pain.

Couple hundred bucks

Back in the day, when things like solenoids were stand alone, it was much cheaper to fiddle with starters and such.
The electrical tech said as much about alternators.......

You've probably got a bad spot....intermittant...a lovely symptom

[Gary O]

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/EAGLE-Safety-Can-2W314?Pid=search

A little pricy, but easy to use.

.....and there it is

However, I will spring for a good one...and guard it with my life.......
Craigs list here I come

[Gary O]

Same here! I check out the nice ones in the tool isles now and then and think "some day..." but my $100 - 10 year plus old craftsman just won't quit!    It's outside getting rained on right now, but I did remember to put the tarp on this time.

So, it wasn't the breaker, and it wasn't the brushes.
The switch felt strong, but I took off the dust cover and popped off the housing. Contact leg fell out.
Searched the distys.
12-15 weeks if only that long.
Component ownership wars.
Grainger/Amazon same.
This one place (Mike's Tools?) can't remember, sent me to a place that had a match, but 220.
Educated eenee meenee for which two of the four legs and it's Rip city again.
Did buy my buddie's Craftsman clunker for the cabin.
Gotta square the fence every setting, but beats the circular.
Happy, and only $81 lighter (switch was $11 incl frt)